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 gorgon wrote:

 combat engineer wrote:

The odd things on the sprue, IMO, are the special and heavy weapons, unless they plan on putting 10 each of the same weapon per box. Tactical Support and Heavy Support squads require ten special or heavy weapons of the same type. Legion Tactical squads get no weapons upgrade, except to the squad Sgt.

I don't think it's very puzzling. This isn't going to be a Horus Heresy starter set. It'll be a game with older mark minis in the box that you can use to play that game, 40K, or 30K. The special and heavy bits can be useful in all those games.

And I think that if there's as many minis in the box as rumored, it's going to come with a very high price tag.

I feel it wont be priced that high. 44 Figs. Age of Sigmar has 47 and you can get that for about 90$ shipped

But they know full well how much people will pay for the Forge World Pre-Heresy.

Age of Sigmar was probably viewed as a 'loss leader' to try and get people into the game. I would expect this to be more expensive.

Make it happen already, GW.

But don't feth it up. The FW team has done an excellent job with HH. So good, I don't mind shelling out the stupid money for the books.

 Pacific wrote:
But they know full well how much people will pay for the Forge World Pre-Heresy.

That's just it. And while I'm sure part of the point of this is GW helping lower the barrier to entry for FW, you can be sure the GW marketing folks are using FW pricing as some kind of starting point. Our past experience with GW has been that minis don't become massively cheaper when they transition to plastic. HH plastics will probably be noticeably cheaper than FW resin, but I'm skeptical that the eventual 30K tac box will be priced in line with the 40K tac box. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. *shrug*

 kronk wrote:
Make it happen already, GW.

But don't feth it up. The FW team has done an excellent job with HH. So good, I don't mind shelling out the stupid money for the books.

I was worried about GW monkeying with what FW's doing, but I'm feeling much better now. All signs are pointing to FW forging ahead on schedule.

I've been wondering if the new Ork series from BL is a hint about how GW plans to position the plastic 30K models. Note that the setting is "only" 1,500 years after the HH. So there'd be ample amounts of Mk.4 and Cataphractii running around, but nothing that would trample on anything HH-related.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/the-beast-arises.html

 gorgon wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Make it happen already, GW.

But don't feth it up. The FW team has done an excellent job with HH. So good, I don't mind shelling out the stupid money for the books.

I was worried about GW monkeying with what FW's doing, but I'm feeling much better now. All signs are pointing to FW forging ahead on schedule.

I've been wondering if the new Ork series from BL is a hint about how GW plans to position the plastic 30K models. Note that the setting is "only" 1,500 years after the HH. So there'd be ample amounts of Mk.4 and Cataphractii running around, but nothing that would trample on anything HH-related.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/the-beast-arises.html

I never thought about that. Interesting idea...

My mate thinks it's gonna be £80 for the box, (doesn't know, doesn't work in marketing), based on how things like that are usually priced.

Playing next week vs their disgusting tau with my pre heresy world eaters, should be fun!

 Pacific wrote:
But they know full well how much people will pay for the Forge World Pre-Heresy.

Can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but a small reason why I try to purchase FW gear over any GW plastics is to reward good behaviour. I personally find FW books and kits to be of a greater value to me in a hobby sense than mainline GW releases. It's also why I am sceptical over this release. I'll keep an eye, but withhold funds for a bit to see how it all shapes out. If its a limited set (most likely), then luckily my scepticism will keep my wallet closed and stop me splashing out on something that won't add to my collection. If FW do a load of tie in releases, chances are my money will go straight to the FW webstore.

 gorgon wrote:


I was worried about GW monkeying with what FW's doing, but I'm feeling much better now. All signs are pointing to FW forging ahead on schedule.

I've been wondering if the new Ork series from BL is a hint about how GW plans to position the plastic 30K models. Note that the setting is "only" 1,500 years after the HH. So there'd be ample amounts of Mk.4 and Cataphractii running around, but nothing that would trample on anything HH-related.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/the-beast-arises.html

Doesn't really make sense.

Before GW-Studio took an interest in FW's Heresy, FW only started it by trying to bandwagon on BL's success with the Heresy series in the first place.

Assuming the new BL-Series is successful (probably not HH-successful, but hey), FW might pick it up again, and if FW is successful with it again, GW might again take note.



Assuming it works on a similar timeline (probably not), it would be a few years.

2006 - Black Library releases Horus Rising (and hits the jackpot)
2012 - FW releases Angron & the first FW-Heresy book.
2015 - Presumably GW-main/studio gets into the Heresy.

2015 - Black Library releases Beast Arises
tbc...

 Formosa wrote:
My mate thinks it's gonna be £80 for the box, (doesn't know, doesn't work in marketing), based on how things like that are usually priced.

Playing next week vs their disgusting tau with my pre heresy world eaters, should be fun!

I'm budgeting for £140 per box as people in the know are saying 3 figure cost... If its less, I'll be a happy bunny. I'm assuming £120, 20 tac marines, 5 terms and a contemptor plus characters. Hopefully the next 2 weeks will tell.

Wonderwolf wrote:
Assuming the new BL-Series is successful (probably not HH-successful, but hey), FW might pick it up again, and if FW is successful with it again, GW might again take note.

I'm not sure that you understand. The two situations aren't similar, just because the premise is that *GW will have* 30K miniatures to sell, first through this boxed set, and then separately going forward per Hastings. Besides, FW already has an entire line of SM miniatures for that era.

The BL series may very well have no connection to the new plastics. But some idle forum speculation doesn't seem out of line given the timing of the BL release and their choice of setting. Why in the 32rd millenium and not the 41st?

 gorgon wrote:


The BL series may very well have no connection to the new plastics. But some idle forum speculation doesn't seem out of line given the timing of the BL release and their choice of setting. Why in the 32rd millenium and not the 41st?

Yeah, but the "Horus Heresy" didn't fill much more room in the background than the entry on "the Beast", back in 2005. A pic of Horus facing the Emperor over dead Sanguinius. A few obscure pieces of concept art.

Black Library took those snippets and spun them into (initially) interesting books that provided a sufficiently detailed setting for somebody to place a game of its own in it.

Sure, if GW launches something parallel to the new Beast-books, it would be a different product. But it would probably fail for the same reasons most of the pre-FW game-books by FW also failed to "stick" in the fluff for the broader majority of players.

FW-Heresy was successful, because FW realised their on Mymerodia or whatever writing sucked and theyd be better off tagging along the (better) Black Library stuff instead of doing it by themselves. And the better BL/Heresy-stuff (in my opinion) was better, because it wasn't written mainly/only to sell miniatures. It was written to tell a story (even if BL kinda lost their way there).

Well first of all, mainly because this story is from '40K history' (ha!) and it takes place then, I think?

But yes, I think gorgon is probably on to something, or maybe more right than he is wrong?

Or, maybe a broken clock is right twice a day, and GW is the blind squirrel that can still manage to find a nut?

Either way, we can agree that Alpha Legion will screw everything up at the end of the day!

Gorgon's M32 idea - which is what I too think could happen - would also allow GW to release kits that are close to the HH and also to 40k.

Those already leaked Mk4 Marines with the for HH unusual number of weapons could be a hint for that. Also 12 book releases throughout an entire year, one each month, makes some accompanying miniature releases at least likely.

M32 could provide a different ruleset without interfering with HH from FW.

Edit: Found the posts from Hastings in Feb 2015 regarding Xenos and also HH from GW is not using the 40k rule system

Hastings later suggested it might broaden over time to include more than just marines vs. marines.

Originally Posted by my_name_is_tudor
Personally I don't think there's any version of a 30K game that could get me particularly excited, given my assumption that it would focus on the good marines/bad marines bust up and not all the other interesting stuff the Galaxy has to offer...

Originally Posted by 75hastings69
well maybe not initially

This is partially true. The "starter set" is in fact a standalone game, however I'll accept starter set as it does lead onto the main 30k game. I think it's safe to assume that 30k could/will have a different game mechanic to 40k, or it would be pretty pointless as a standalone game. Hence the reason that some boxes will contain rules for both 30 & 40k (if the rules weren't different they'd only include 1 set of rules.

Wonderwolf wrote:

Assuming it works on a similar timeline (probably not), it would be a few years.

2006 - Black Library releases Horus Rising (and hits the jackpot)
2012 - FW releases Angron & the first FW-Heresy book.
2015 - Presumably GW-main/studio gets into the Heresy.

2015 - Black Library releases Beast Arises
tbc...

Forgeworld was coming out with the old mark armor for several years prior to the release of the first HH game book. Now we can assume with hindsight that it wasn't just a lark or in conjunction with Badab War books but rather to make sure they had a stock of the common armors needed during their impending HH release. It's still a few years after BL but we can realistically move the HH date for FW back to around 2010 which is the earliest reference I've found for them releasing HH era stuff (even without the HH label technically).

Apologies for the slight OT, but holy crap?! Did I just see a division of GW give an outline of releases for an entire year?!

What happened to "deny all knowledge until the day it goes on preorder and then hope that people have the awareness/interest/funds to buy the thing"?

 Jadenim wrote:
Apologies for the slight OT, but holy crap?! Did I just see a division of GW give an outline of releases for an entire year?!

What happened to "deny all knowledge until the day it goes on preorder and then hope that people have the awareness/interest/funds to buy the thing"?

What do you mean?

 Formosa wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
Apologies for the slight OT, but holy crap?! Did I just see a division of GW give an outline of releases for an entire year?!

What happened to "deny all knowledge until the day it goes on preorder and then hope that people have the awareness/interest/funds to buy the thing"?

What do you mean?

I'm guessing he's talking about the Black Library's "The Beast Arises" books that are releasing starting in December.

Yes, sorry, should have been more clear.

Also looking forward to the HH game whenever it finally appears.

Really, most of what I want out of this rumored set is the Contemptor. I am not overly in need of Tactical Marines, though it would help me complete a full Battle Company.

thanks @ SlaveToDarkness

They're making a HH branded surf board?

 warboss wrote:
They're making a HH branded surf board?

it's for the shelfs^^

Hobbit shelfs will go away, Heresy shelfs will stay

 Atia wrote:


Hobbit shelfs will go away, Heresy shelfs will stay

I need a new word, one that is at once NOOOOO and HOOORAAAY! Because the death of the Hobbit is a rather high price for HH as far as I'm concerned, but plastic HH is awesome!

 Paradigm wrote:

 Atia wrote:


Hobbit shelfs will go away, Heresy shelfs will stay

I need a new word, one that is at once NOOOOO and HOOORAAAY! Because the death of the Hobbit is a rather high price for HH as far as I'm concerned, but plastic HH is awesome!

no - killing LoTR is a high price, ... or atleast it would have been a few years ago^^

the Hobbit is dead - i never saw someone buy boxes or playing it here ... so it's good for GW (also - the Hobbit/LoTR licences weren't cheap, i guess they made more money with the old Warhammer Fantasy than Hobbit these days ...)

Same here, most of the Hobbit stuff has already been recalled or sent back, it just didn't take off like the original trilogy.

A topic for another place, but it would be interesting to see why it fell so far short of the LoTR release.

Of course I wasn't in a store for launch but can't imagine it being anything like the atmosphere for the LoTR releases - working in a store at the time, the boxes were being brought in from delivery and barely sitting on the shelves before being sold, it was pretty crazy but awesome at the same time.

Overall the Hobbit was nowhere near as massive a hit as the original trilogy was. I think GW didn't see this, seeing as we're still stuck with Goblin Town special editions. I can only speak for my own FLGS, but around there the Hobbit has been nothing but a waste of space collecting dust, with only one or two items sold over time, most of it now recalled or sent back to make place for Age of Sigmar and more 40k goodies.

But, it's best for GW to move on and dive into something quite a lot of people have been clamouring for. I think the Horus Heresy will be their next little cash cow for sure. Even if the rules of the boxed set are naff, they will still be snatched up like mad as a cheaper alternative to FW's models. All you need is one or more of their excellent books and you are good to go.

 Pacific wrote:
A topic for another place, but it would be interesting to see why it fell so far short of the LoTR release.

Of course I wasn't in a store for launch but can't imagine it being anything like the atmosphere for the LoTR releases - working in a store at the time, the boxes were being brought in from delivery and barely sitting on the shelves before being sold, it was pretty crazy but awesome at the same time.

Not to go off topic, but a quick answer:

1) LOTR movies were 10x better and 10x more successful than Hobbit movies.

2) LOTR game pulled from 70 years of history, 2/3 of hobbit was made up in the movies.

3) LOTR minis were far cheaper. Starting out at 24 models for 20 bucks. The hobbit models were in the 10 for 40 range. Far too expensive for people starting out.

4) LOTR had a huge following including a younger audience. Hobbit never got that. So we didn't have stores full of 10-16 year olds building models.

5) Hobbit did not have a lot of different armies, different heroes. LOTR had a huge range of models to collect.


I can't wait for HH. Unlike the baffling Age of Sigmar, this will tap into a large audience of excited gamers. I expect to see lots of people building armies, playing games, having fun. It's a very engaging story and background.

 Atia wrote:

 warboss wrote:
They're making a HH branded surf board?

it's for the shelfs^^

Hobbit shelfs will go away, Heresy shelfs will stay

Wow, I say.