Dark Angels Rumors thread: Update 11/25

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**milo**

To be fair, there is a set of BA-specific terminator models -- but you have to buy a copy of Space Hulk to get them.

**Kanluwen**

milo wrote:
To be fair, there is a set of BA-specific terminator models -- but you have to buy a copy of Space Hulk to get them.

Yeah, and they had nothing really "unique" about them apart from the Captain's cloak and the iconography of the Blood Angels on their shoulderpads/armor.

**Skipphag da Devoura**

Comment 1:
Seraphim Sisters have always had 2x Bolt Pistols... I don't know if they ever had rules for them... Did Cypher?

Comment 2:
The Ravenwing Battleforce box has DW specific terminator bits... I don't think that they are going to add a new Terminator box for them... But I would love it if they did... To get apothecary termi bits..!!!

**Anpu42**

Skipphag da Devoura wrote:
Comment 1:
Seraphim Sisters have always had 2x Bolt Pistols... I don't know if they ever had rules for them... Did Cypher?

Comment 2:
The Ravenwing Battleforce box has DW specific terminator bits... I don't think that they are going to add a new Terminator box for them... But I would love it if they did... To get apothecary termi bits..!!!

1] Apparently, a Bolt Pistol and a Plasma Pistol.

2] That is the other reason for a new Terminator kit.

Following Logic [there is that dirty word again] we should get two kits, all of the new ones [SW/BA/GK] have gotten two.

**pretre**

Seraphim had Reroll to hit for two pistols in 3rd and 4th. With the new codex they got fire both but no reroll. Then gunslingers gave that rule to everyone with two pistols.

**wowsmash**

I really really hope we get DW termi kits. Would love that so much.

**Dok**

I am excited at the potential of an army that can take plamsa blasters. I just really hope they get something for troops other than Tacticals. I don't want to just be playing deathwing for another 2 editions.

**vitki**

I wonder if the DW is moving away from the feathers/Native American theme they were kind of shoehorned into.

Maybe I haven't looked closely enough but I don't think I saw any feathers on the Dark Vengeance termis.

**Ian Sturrock**

What would be very neat is a nod to 1st Ed Space Hulk Deathwing, whose captains had Plasma Grenade Launchers as well as their usual weaponry. Game effect could be simple enough -- short range plasma cannon, basically.

**Nvs**

vitki wrote:
I wonder if the DW is moving away from the feathers/Native American theme they were kind of shoehorned into.

Maybe I haven't looked closely enough but I don't think I saw any feathers on the Dark Vengeance termis.

They're there, they're just subtle.

**H.B.M.C.**

vitki wrote:
I wonder if the DW is moving away from the feathers/Native American theme they were kind of shoehorned into.

Maybe I haven't looked closely enough but I don't think I saw any feathers on the Dark Vengeance termis.

Both the DW Termies and the Master have feathers.

**Anpu42**

And it's not hard to turn the Purity Seals into them

**RyanA**

vitki wrote:
I wonder if the DW is moving away from the feathers/Native American theme they were kind of shoehorned into.

Maybe I haven't looked closely enough but I don't think I saw any feathers on the Dark Vengeance termis.

Native American? I always thought Angels = Feathers. And yes, the models do have them, as does the commander, and there are a few others lurking around the box set if you look hard enough

**vitki**

RyanA wrote:
vitki wrote:
I wonder if the DW is moving away from the feathers/Native American theme they were kind of shoehorned into.

Maybe I haven't looked closely enough but I don't think I saw any feathers on the Dark Vengeance termis.

Native American? I always thought Angels = Feathers. And yes, the models do have them, as does the commander, and there are a few others lurking around the box set if you look hard enough

OK, guess I didn't look hard enough at them yet.

The Native American thing goes way back to the fluff from one of the Space Hulk expansions about why the deathwing wear white. The world they were recruiting from was a pre-industrial world that had very NA type feel to it. The more recent fluff has the knight-like feel to it.
Seemed like they were trying to go two ways with them style-wise.

**Davor**

Pyriel- wrote:
Devastators can upgrade to take flakk missiles at +5 points per model, replaces Krak and Frag options.

Wow, making them a waste of points if facing an army with no flyers. Who will ever take devs in a tourney if they can either shoot normally or shoot at flyers but not have both options during the game.

And people wonder why other people think that you have to be stupid if you play Space Marines. You actually need an ability to do both? It was good in 4th when you had to pick one or the other, but in 5th you had the ability to take both. Talk about dumbing down an army to play. I am glad you have to actually think and CHOOSE either or, not both.

Talk about needing the "easy button".

**Brother SRM**

vitki wrote:

The Native American thing goes way back to the fluff from one of the Space Hulk expansions about why the deathwing wear white. The world they were recruiting from was a pre-industrial world that had very NA type feel to it. The more recent fluff has the knight-like feel to it.
Seemed like they were trying to go two ways with them style-wise.

They also had names like Two Bears Talking and Runs With Wolves and stuff like that. I can understand why they went with the monk idea, but I still like having the little touches of Native American flair on some of the models.

**Ozymandias**

The Native American thing still exists to a degree. In the last codex they even mention Two Heads Talking and the Deathwing but claim it is an allegorical tale that recruits learn as they go up the ranks of the DA. Basically telling a series of stories preparing them in case they ever become a DW and learn the truth of the Fallen DA.

**Platuan4th**

Ozymandias wrote:
The Native American thing still exists to a degree. In the last codex they even mention Two Heads Talking and the Deathwing but claim it is an allegorical tale that recruits learn as they go up the ranks of the DA. Basically telling a series of stories preparing them in case they ever become a DW and learn the truth of the Fallen DA.

Which I found odd, as Deathwing had nothing to do with the Fallen and everything to do with Genestealer cults.

**Kanluwen**

Platuan4th wrote:
Ozymandias wrote:
The Native American thing still exists to a degree. In the last codex they even mention Two Heads Talking and the Deathwing but claim it is an allegorical tale that recruits learn as they go up the ranks of the DA. Basically telling a series of stories preparing them in case they ever become a DW and learn the truth of the Fallen DA.

Which I found odd, as Deathwing had nothing to do with the Fallen and everything to do with Genestealer cults.

It actually makes sense when you think about it.

The Deathwing are the individuals within the Chapter who are brought in to kill or capture the Fallen. They have to be aware as to what is going on when fighting the Fallen.
The Ravenwing have to have some knowledge as well, given that they are those who have to hunt for the Fallen.

**Ronin_eX**

Being an allegorical story means that it is a slight retelling of the betrayal of the Fallen but using the Plains Worlders and Genestealers in place of garrisoned Dark Angels and Chaos. It is a way of passing on a story about being betrayed by your own brothers without having to bring up the specific story involving the Fallen. As an allegory it works quite well. If it is just a retelling of the exact story of the fall with all the names changed around then it would probably lose that whole "subtleness" thing the Story of Two-heads Talking has.

That said I do prefer it being an actual event in the Chapter's history since it is a bad ass story from the RT days (just needs a few modernizing touches such as removing concepts of Marines retiring back to their homeworlds and starting families...).

**RyanA**

I thought that the Deathwing wore white to honor the deathwing terminators who died in a space hulk? Or am I confusing this with something else @_@

**Vermillion**

They wore white as that was the custom in the tribes of the panet when they went off to a fight to avange a wrong but didn't expect to come back from it. Or rather coloured themselves with white warpaint, so close enough when a genetically enhance walking tank armoured warrior

**Palindrome**

Vermillion wrote:
They wore white as that was the custom in the tribes of the panet when they went off to a fight to avange a wrong but didn't expect to come back from it. Or rather coloured themselves with white warpaint, so close enough when a genetically enhance walking tank armoured warrior

It was one of their own recruiting worlds. I think the story actually predates the more detailed Dark Angels fluff as it was in one of the short story books that GW put out in the late 80's/early 90's and was later adapted to fit the 'DARK SECRET' theme.

Who ever painted the Terminators for Space Hulk obviously didn't like painting dark green (or something along those lines) hence their modern bone coloured armour

**Ronin_eX**

Yup the Tale of Two-heads Talking is actually a Rogue Trader era story and when you read it, it definitely shows. It still has the concept of marines retiring and even raising families. A lot of the exact bits of the story don't quite mesh with modern fluff so it isn't explicitly canon anymore, even if it is awesome. But it is the only real explanation currently on record as to why the Deathwing are painted bone (though in the short story they were described as rubbing ash on their armour, so the actual colour would be a colder grey-white). If GW doesn't stick with the Tale of Two-heads talking being the actual reason for the colour swap then I hope they spend a bit of time explaining the heraldry of the Chapter since it is by far the most interesting and varied of any chapter and deserves a bit of fluff to explain it.

**Cruentus**

Ronin_eX wrote:
Yup the Tale of Two-heads Talking is actually a Rogue Trader era story and when you read it, it definitely shows. It still has the concept of marines retiring and even raising families. A lot of the exact bits of the story don't quite mesh with modern fluff so it isn't explicitly canon anymore, even if it is awesome. But it is the only real explanation currently on record as to why the Deathwing are painted bone (though in the short story they were described as rubbing ash on their armour, so the actual colour would be a colder grey-white). If GW doesn't stick with the Tale of Two-heads talking being the actual reason for the colour swap then I hope they spend a bit of time explaining the heraldry of the Chapter since it is by far the most interesting and varied of any chapter and deserves a bit of fluff to explain it.

The story "Deathwing" was a short story in the anthology called Deathwing published in 2001 (originally in 1990). All of the Dark Angels who fought in their "Honor Suits" (aka Terminator Armour) had native american names (two heads talking, cloud runner, etc.) as well as Dark Angel names (Brother Gabriel, Brother Ezekiel). In a further departure from the current fluff, the marines remembered their ancestry, their rites, and their lives as plainspeople. And when the Dark Angels arrived on the cleansed planet to retrieve the terminator armour, the dark angel who speaks with them calls the captain by his plainspeople name, and is chastised for it.

As mentioned above, the suits are covered in ash from their bonfire and they ask the dark angels who are retrieving the suits to keep the color that way in honor of the sacrifices made. All of the remaining terminators from the story remain on the planet to help re-teach the plainspeople how to hunt, fish, etc. with the hope that they will again be able to provide recruits to the dark angels.

I actually like that story, and the fluff within it better than the monastic knight theme. The dichotomy between being a monastic dark angel and a plainsperson at the same time has been lost as the fluff has advanced, even though they thankfully keep some of the feather and related trappings.

**Ozymandias**

Platuan4th wrote:
Ozymandias wrote:
The Native American thing still exists to a degree. In the last codex they even mention Two Heads Talking and the Deathwing but claim it is an allegorical tale that recruits learn as they go up the ranks of the DA. Basically telling a series of stories preparing them in case they ever become a DW and learn the truth of the Fallen DA.

Which I found odd, as Deathwing had nothing to do with the Fallen and everything to do with Genestealer cults.

It's more about sacrifice than the Fallen.

**Puscifer**

Just a quick one...

With the current issue of white dwarf having a Dark Angel on the back, inside cover, doesn't that just scream a September/October release and not November?

Just throwing that one out there.

**SickSix**

Puscifer wrote:
Just a quick one...

With the current issue of white dwarf having a Dark Angel on the back, inside cover, doesn't that just scream a September/October release and not November?

Just throwing that one out there.

You mean like the White Scar on the issue a couple months back screamed a White Scar release?

**Kroothawk**

Stickmonkey wrote:Ok, debated posting this, as my sourcing is thin here. But I figured I would go ahead and pass it along, just know that this is very very tenuous, so place a large shaker of salt along side it.

The DA siege model is a DA only Techmarine with what I'm being told is a Mole Mortar. Now, those of you who have been around as long as I have (Hello RT) know the Mole Mortar was a Squat weapon that fired a tunneling shell. In my opinion and so far as i know, this really doesn't have fluff or other basis to be DA only, but then you look at some of the other new stuff, and I don't know.

From my informant...
The model is a tracked platform, similar in size to the thunder fire cannon. Techmarine rides on a platform to the side and has a harness with a single shell it is loading into the top of the mortar. The mortar is a cylinder angled into the ground, target screen off to the side where the Techmarine is manipulating it. Two additional models appear as shells bursting from the ground. One assumes they are some form of placement marker for the devices effect. Both Techmarine and mortar have DA iconography. Finecast.

Again, this is rumor, I'm just passing it along.

Also, with regard to Sammael. He is on the new release list I saw. Now he was just finecasted this summer, so he would not be on that list unless he's a new model or a new to finecast model. Well with him being release in finecast, he's not the later. So either the information was bogus to begin with, or we should have a new Sammael in one form or another in a few months time.

Cheers.

**Marthike**

This sounds like a weird tank and one will never be used.

If its AV10,10,10 then unless it first demolisher equivalent rounds and is below 100 points no one will ever even go close to the thing