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Guard are simply amazing, Blobby guard were mainstays of almost every team at ETC.

The paskisher is ridiculous. Ignore cover orders everywhere, they can easily make the best anti-Eldar list.

Dont even get me started on adding in some FW stuff like Thudd Guns.

Yarrick is also a singularly exceptional heroe amongst the uncounted trillions of the Imperial Guard. That's another thing that must be kept in mind. When you're talking numbers like that, you'll get a few spectacularly impressive characters, but there's a reason they're unique Special Characters and not just generic HQ's.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
Guard are simply amazing, Blobby guard were mainstays of almost every team at ETC.

The paskisher is ridiculous. Ignore cover orders everywhere, they can easily make the best anti-Eldar list.

Dont even get me started on adding in some FW stuff like Thudd Guns.

To be fair, the Thudd Guns are old news next to the Codex-included Wyvern (S4 instead of S5, but is automatically Twin Linked, ignores cover, rerolls failed wounds, is on an AV12 hull with an extra heavy bolter and can't be made to run off the table on Ld7, and isn't immobile, for only 10ppm more). It should also be kept in mind that the "Paskisher" must be accompanied by another tank, making the unit, at a bare minimum assuming no upgrades and 1 Punisher and one cheaper Eradicator, 330pts, and is usually 400pts after kit. The Ignores Cover orders likewise are more finicky that many make them out to be, though are very useful

 Vaktathi wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Contrary to popular opinion, numbers and sheer mass will generally defeat skill, there's a reason most martial arts events (boxing, wrestling, judo, taikwando, etc) also have weight classes and don't try to do silly things like pit one highly skilled guy against half a dozen lower ranked guys.

Untrue. 3 Olympic-level fencing masters are a match for 50 amateur fencers.




The result is far closer than what you had suggested. Initial odds were more than 15:1!

They're all coming in one at a time, they're not attacking from multiple directions, very little in the way of ganging up, more than half of them are sitting back 30 feet away most of the time, they're only aiming for a very small and specific target in the most defensible possible place (small object on the chest), etc.

Not a great example. If they'd been trying to kill him, he'd have been done for in the first 15 seconds.

No, they try to gang up, but the masters run to spread the herd out. The amateurs are just as vulnerable/invulnerable as the masters, with the same requirement for a heart hit to be taken out.

Easy to say, easy to watch, harder to do.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Contrary to popular opinion, numbers and sheer mass will generally defeat skill, there's a reason most martial arts events (boxing, wrestling, judo, taikwando, etc) also have weight classes and don't try to do silly things like pit one highly skilled guy against half a dozen lower ranked guys.

Untrue. 3 Olympic-level fencing masters are a match for 50 amateur fencers.




The result is far closer than what you had suggested. Initial odds were more than 15:1!

They're all coming in one at a time, they're not attacking from multiple directions, very little in the way of ganging up, more than half of them are sitting back 30 feet away most of the time, they're only aiming for a very small and specific target in the most defensible possible place (small object on the chest), etc.

Not a great example. If they'd been trying to kill him, he'd have been done for in the first 15 seconds.

No, they try to gang up, but the masters run to spread the herd out. The amateurs are just as vulnerable/invulnerable as the masters, with the same requirement for a heart hit to be taken out.

Easy to say, easy to watch, harder to do.

I watched the whole thing. The nature of the target in and of itself is completely different than what an actual fight would be, it limits the number of people that can attack at any one time and the direction from which they engage, many of them sit wayyy back and casually walk across the area or literally stand there 30-40 feet away for long periods of time, etc. Also, they're all only restricting themselves to trying to fence. Nobody is getting in there and grappling, kicking, punching, grabbing, tripping, jumping on him, etc.

Again, if it were a real fight, he'd have been on the ground and full of holes in about 15 seconds, you wouldn't have people surrounding him with blade points 12" away from his back and sitting around doing nothing but shuffling while one or two guys at a time lunge for what is probably the easiest spot to defend. I'm not denying he's a skilled fencer or made a good show of it, but it's 0% representative of what an actual fight would look like. The attack avenues are channeled to a very specific point and a very specific method of attack, largely negating the value of the numbers, and lots of them know they can't get anywhere close to where they'd need to be to strike (since the target and method of attack are limited) and are sitting around the outer areas doing nothing.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

No, they try to gang up, but the masters run to spread the herd out. The amateurs are just as vulnerable/invulnerable as the masters, with the same requirement for a heart hit to be taken out.

Easy to say, easy to watch, harder to do.

In a war or serious battle or whathaveyou, the 30 recruits aren't required to target only one specific point on their body. They get to slice at arms, legs, bleed them to death if they can't get a 1-stroke kill. And that's assuming they don't just mob-rush them.

They can run, yes, but how far until they're off the table?

 Torga_DW wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

No, they try to gang up, but the masters run to spread the herd out. The amateurs are just as vulnerable/invulnerable as the masters, with the same requirement for a heart hit to be taken out.

Easy to say, easy to watch, harder to do.

In a war or serious battle or whathaveyou, the 30 recruits aren't required to target only one specific point on their body. They get to slice at arms, legs, bleed them to death if they can't get a 1-stroke kill. And that's assuming they don't just mob-rush them.

In a war or serious battle, the 50 recruits arms, legs, etc are also vulnerable - it goes both ways.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

No, they try to gang up, but the masters run to spread the herd out. The amateurs are just as vulnerable/invulnerable as the masters, with the same requirement for a heart hit to be taken out.

Easy to say, easy to watch, harder to do.

In a war or serious battle or whathaveyou, the 30 recruits aren't required to target only one specific point on their body. They get to slice at arms, legs, bleed them to death if they can't get a 1-stroke kill. And that's assuming they don't just mob-rush them.

In a war or serious battle, the 50 recruits arms, legs, etc are also vulnerable - it goes both ways.

While true, there's one sword with one set of eyes against fifty swords with fifty eyes. The sword just can't be in more than one place to parry or thrust or slash at once, while their opponents can be in fifty places at once. Once he goes to strike one guy, the other 49 know they're in the clear and that's going to be it, or once he's surrounded and got twelve dudes behind him, twenty in front and eight to each side, his skill isn't going to mean much when he's getting stabbed/grabbed/punched/slashed/grappled/etc from every direction.

In a close range fight like that, where there's actual intent to harm/kill and they're not just sitting there fencing only and only aiming for one target, the one guy, no matter how skilled, is going down in just a few seconds and not taking more than a couple of guys with him at best.

You do realize that you're all talk, right?

At least I had a video of something that actually happened, where 3 masters took out 48 guys of lower skill in real life.

Until you have something real to show, maybe you should stop.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
You do realize that you're all talk, right?

At least I had a video of something that actually happened, where 3 masters took out 48 guys of lower skill in real life.

Until you have something real to show, maybe you should stop.

So...instead of offering an actual retort to any of the arguments I've made, you're relying on a pre-arrangedJapanese game show clip as your sole evidence for realistic combat involving outnumbered fights and demanding a counter-video...

That's not how any of this works.

Seriously, you don't see how silly that is?

Besides, one-sided outnumbered fights aren't exactly premium upload content, and spending a ton of time trying to find a decent video of something like that for an internet argument isn't high on my list of things to do when written arguments ignored and massive issues with the previous video go unacknowledged.

As for being "all talk", well, we're talking, this is an internet message board...but my life has been neither devoid of interpersonal conflicts, nor of training, competition, and practice.

Besides, none of the points I'm making are particularly complex. One guy can only defend against so much unless there's an artificial constraint on the method, weapon, and target area. His blade can only be in so many places and he can only see so much at any one time.

1 person cannot defeat 1 group of 5 opponents. He can, however, defeat 5 groups of 1 person. Assuming all are of lesser ability. Divide and conquer. When faced with 5 opponents the ideal situation would be to back up into a narrow alley where they can only come at you one at a time, or make them spread out enough that they can't have 2 people hitting you simultaneously.

 Vaktathi wrote:
While true, there's one sword with one set of eyes against fifty swords with fifty eyes. The sword just can't be in more than one place to parry or thrust or slash at once, while their opponents can be in fifty places at once.

It doesn't work that way. You can fit a lot of people around a Space Marine, but you're never going to get 50 people on him at once. Large numbers come with severe disadvantages; unless you're trained for group melee and supporting each other accordingly (something I strongly doubt Guardsmen are, beyond 'stab X with bayonet') you're going to get in each other's way and against a skilled opponent who is more than able to trick you into hitting one another... Yeah, those numbers suddenly are not that useful.

Besides, in the original case of Marines VS Guardsmen, numbers won't matter. It's not harder for the Marine to sprint through the Guardsmen than it is for the Guardsmen to sprint through high grass, and they are about as threatening as well.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
While true, there's one sword with one set of eyes against fifty swords with fifty eyes. The sword just can't be in more than one place to parry or thrust or slash at once, while their opponents can be in fifty places at once.

It doesn't work that way. You can fit a lot of people around a Space Marine, but you're never going to get 50 people on him at once.

Not all at once, entirely true, but if you've got that many guys, even getting 1/5th or even just 1/10th of that in there will end in the same result and that's entirely feasible, but I was more referring specifically to the video, and yes, numbers can have disadvantages, but in general, unless there's been some method to channel the larger numbers, they'll usually tell unless one side is not only more skilled, but gargantuanly more capable just physically (e.g. a trained MMA fighter versus three dozen newborn kittens), One might try to make a case for Space Marines as such, but the fluff is massively inconsistent on such points and there's enough on the side of the guardsmen such that it does not make the game all that out of whack with reality or the fluff.

Large numbers come with severe disadvantages; unless you're trained for group melee and supporting each other accordingly (something I strongly doubt Guardsmen are, beyond 'stab X with bayonet') you're going to get in each other's way and against a skilled opponent who is more than able to trick you into hitting one another... Yeah, those numbers suddenly are not that useful.

Largely only if you're jammed cheek to jowl and are minimally trained as a unit. A lot also depends on the nature of the fight really, was it a coordinated charge or was it "oh hey both sides turned a corner and found each other 3 feet away" or "oh crap they all just hopped on top of us in this trench and none of us had our weapons handy". Ultimately however, guardsmen are trained professional soldiers that operate as cohesive units, not barely trained Conscripts operating as mobs (hence why there's a Conscript unit with crappier stats).

Besides, in the original case of Marines VS Guardsmen, numbers won't matter. It's not harder for the Marine to sprint through the Guardsmen than it is for the Guardsmen to sprint through high grass, and they are about as threatening as well.

Again, that's a point the fluff is massively inconsistent on. In fact we can go right back to the Dan Abnett thing, in some of his books, a single squad of Space Marines slaughter thousands of Dark Eldar in close quarters without a casualty, in other books they lose a squad (of the Chaos variety) to half a squad of guardsmen, a single Commissar, and a couple dozen primitive villagers.

 Vaktathi wrote:
One might try to make a case for Space Marines as such, but the fluff is massively inconsistent on such points and there's enough on the side of the guardsmen such that it does not make the game all that out of whack with reality or the fluff.

I don't think there's anything inconsistent about it, as long as you're willing to ignore obvious stupid fluff mistakes and/or character shields. A space marine wears power armor that is effective against bolters/autocannons/etc, weapons that are far more powerful than anything a human can do in melee. You could stand there punching a space marine in the chest until you break every bone in your arms while the space marine stands there ignoring you, and all you would accomplish is maybe getting blood all over the marine's armor and slightly annoying them. Meanwhile, because the space marine is wearing power armor that boosts their strength every blow the space marine delivers is going to deliver crippling injuries that real-world martial arts experts can only dream of. To take down even a single space marine in melee you'd have to throw endless waves of guardsmen at him in the desperate hope that somehow you land a one-in-a-million hit that actually accomplishes something. And that's just stupid when you have guns.

Now, a sergeant/commissar/etc with a power weapon would have a better chance since the power weapon greatly reduces the effectiveness of the marine's armor (if it doesn't ignore the armor entirely) and allows the guardsman to deliver a damaging blow if he can manage to hit the marine. And once you start talking about high-end characters it's possible for them to have enough melee experience and training to consistently beat low-end marines. But that's not really the amazing capabilities of the humble guardsman, it's the existence of weapons that negate power armor and are dangerous even in the hands of a conscript.

(And I can't believe I'm actually defending space marines...)

 Peregrine wrote:


I don't think there's anything inconsistent about it, as long as you're willing to ignore obvious stupid fluff mistakes and/or character shields.

Which applies probably moreso to Space Marines than anything else.

A space marine wears power armor that is effective against bolters/autocannons/etc, weapons that are far more powerful than anything a human can do in melee.

And yet they die all the time to such weapons (also, with regards to Autocannons, my guess would be they're probably not proof against a direct hit, but rather the blast and shrapnel that does most of their damage). Melee combat in 40k is also not just slinging fists, but blades, pistols, grenades, traps, etc.

You could stand there punching a space marine in the chest until you break every bone in your arms while the space marine stands there ignoring you, and all you would accomplish is maybe getting blood all over the marine's armor and slightly annoying them.

Nobody is saying anything to the contrary, but that's also not what's going to be what anyone's going to do in a fight. Hell, even against a normal person I'm not going to try just punching them in the chest in a fight.

Meanwhile, because the space marine is wearing power armor that boosts their strength every blow the space marine delivers is going to deliver crippling injuries that real-world martial arts experts can only dream of. To take down even a single space marine in melee you'd have to throw endless waves of guardsmen at him in the desperate hope that somehow you land a one-in-a-million hit that actually accomplishes something.

And yet every GW game having both of these factions manages it, far lesser creatures like Gaunts or Ripper swarms are described and portrayed doing it, and we have fluff of it happening. Space Marine armor also is not inviolate, every joint has a weak spot and often so does the abdomen, not all parts are universally as strong as other parts (just like modern armor, bullet proof vests can often stop up to .308 rounds, but that same round will go through any combat helmet like it didn't exist). They've also got a big heavy and potentially vulnerable power pack and heat vent on the back that always seems to be overlooked by everything and everyone all the time

And that's just stupid when you have guns.

In general, close combat when you have guns is almost always stupid, that's why nobody does it in real life

 Peregrine wrote:

(And I can't believe I'm actually defending space marines...)

Hisssss

 Peregrine wrote:

(And I can't believe I'm actually defending space marines...)

Yes, yeeeeees. Keep fighting!

 Bobthehero wrote:
Hisssss

Well, foils are dueling weapons. I've done some fencing and I imagine it would be difficult to gain a big advantage from numbers armed that way.

But that's why you give the men things like spears, pikes, lances, horses, shields... stuff that's great at running people over without much finesse.

As for the Imperial Guard, well, has anyone seen The Wind and the Lion? The marines storming the palace is kind of what I imagined IG Infantry blobs are meant for. Zero finesse, maximum discipline, just marching up and knocking out the defenders with massed rifles. Doesn't really matter if an Eldar can perceive, calculate, and react a hundred times faster than a human if an infantry platoon is just going to brazenly march up and put holes in every inch of terrain.

Depends on the type of fencing. Sabre is the closest to actual battlefield fighting, and the most skillful IMO. The target area is defined from the waist up(because thats what two fighting horsemen would aim for) and you can use the point and the front and back of the blade.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Depends on the type of fencing. Sabre is the closest to actual battlefield fighting, and the most skillful IMO. The target area is defined from the waist up(because thats what two fighting horsemen would aim for) and you can use the point and the front and back of the blade.

Which is delightful when I strike for someone's legs, they never see it coming, or get so out of sorts by it that I then hit them in the face.

The joys of having unconventional instructors.

Anyways, non-sequitor aside, The most I've ever seen someone hold off successfully is one master against two amateurs when practicing military fencing. Two people, attacking simultaneously from opposite directions and using blind spots, which even someone with the most training can understand, will test the limits of any human fencer I've seen. Damned impressive to watch, by the way, damned frustrating when you're one of the two peons trying to actually hit the guy.

Naturally, for the purposes of our 40k assessment, power armour and post-human-ness would doubtlessly allow a Marine to do better than any unarmoured, merely human swordsman, but provided the Marine is out in the open, being able to attack from multiple directions would still, I'd imagine, end the Marine in question. Power armour has vulnerabilities; joints and cabling are routinely the cause of death or disability for Marines in the fluff, and are within the means of someone armed with a lasgun, bayonet and some basic training to eventually utilize.

Of course, one has to ask themselves, why hasn't this marine bolter'd them to death, bull-rushed and isolated the individual guardsmen or any other variables which would preclude the Guard from being able to pile on and overwhelm the Marine and so on.

I think of it like a bunch of infantrymen attacking a tank. The tank is bristling with weapons and armor, but surrounded by attacking infantry they'll find weaknesses at close range.

At distance of course a single tank, navy seal, or even sniper can probably easily dispatch many times as many enemies.

Imperial Guard are inherently Russian. Eventually, the Marine runs out of Bolter ammo and has to fire up the chainsword.

Even the Primarchs only rated Space Marines as individually worth 10 soldiers of the Imperial Army.

That's good, but not as good as people are making it out to be.

So you got 20 guys fighting a Space Marine in hand to hand. Suddenly, the fifteen closest guys die when the Space Marine explodes because of the krak grenade someone put on the nuclear reactor that is his backpack.

Good night, Gracie.

 Psienesis wrote:
Even the Primarchs only rated Space Marines as individually worth 10 soldiers of the Imperial Army.

In-universe statement.

Are you asserting that the Primarchs were always right and only said logical things?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is also somewhat funny that people think any kind of fencing, parrying etc. would be involved. It wouldn't.




And these are Orks, who are supposed to be really good at melee.

Parrying may be redirecting force, not absorbing it, but it has its limits. You can't redirect an excavator taking a swing at you. You can't really redirect a giant supersoldier swinging at you with a huge chainsaw either.

 Ashiraya wrote:

And these are Orks, who are supposed to be really good at kicking the tar out of smaller things, which happens to include most humans.

Fixed it for ya.

A fight with Orks isn't going to involve fencing because Orks live in a perpetual barroom brawl. A melee between a Marine and, say, a handful of Guardsmen recruited from a hive world's aristocracy is probably going to include people going for precision strikes, targeting joints, and so forth (blocking would probably be an issue because, y'know. You want to keep your arm. The Guardsmen are probably better off dodging in this scenario).

It's also probably going to involve most, if not all, of the Guardsmen ending up dead or badly injured. But even an Astartes can only move so fast. I would guess it all comes down to positioning. If he gets surrounded, there's a decent chance that someone's going to have a shot at him.

 Spinner wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

And these are Orks, who are supposed to be really good at kicking the tar out of smaller things, which happens to include most humans.

Fixed it for ya.

A fight with Orks isn't going to involve fencing because Orks live in a perpetual barroom brawl. A melee between a Marine and, say, a handful of Guardsmen recruited from a hive world's aristocracy is probably going to include people going for precision strikes, targeting joints, and so forth (blocking would probably be an issue because, y'know. You want to keep your arm. The Guardsmen are probably better off dodging in this scenario).

It's also probably going to involve most, if not all, of the Guardsmen ending up dead or badly injured. But even an Astartes can only move so fast. I would guess it all comes down to positioning. If he gets surrounded, there's a decent chance that someone's going to have a shot at him.

Let's assume a normal heartbeat takes half a second.

We know that a Space Marine (Source: Void Stalker) is capable of sprinting 10 meters from stationary and vaulting a command console in that time.

Let's also assume that the vaulting part ate 1/4th of the time that the whole movement took.

That means we have 0,375 seconds for running 10 meters.

That's something like 30 meters per second, or 95 kph, or about 152 mph (!)

I made a pair of assumptions there, but I doubt shifting that number would affect the main point:

He is not only fast, he is far too fast for even the best human in the galaxy to counter. Unmodified humans have a delay time of 0,5 seconds between seeing something with their eyes and the information being registered in their brain, with additional time then added for deciding on an action and tasking the muscles with carrying out that action. Marines have faster reaction times than that, repeatedly described (I have a ton of sources if you'd like) as being able to move faster than the eye can follow and with millisecond reaction times (Example source: Space Wolf Omnibus page 258).

You can't fight something you are too slow to register, and even if you see it, your arm is too slow to intercept it. You could have a thousand Guardsmen against one Marine and they could do precisely jack because whenever they are shooting or stabbing he isn't there anymore. Surrounding him would not hamper his movement at all, he could trample them with ease or just leap through the crowds.

It's simply not a fair fight. Creatures like Astartes, Eldar Aspect Warriors and Tyranid Warriors compete in a whole different category than the common Guardsman. You don't compare the yield of WMDs and assault rifles, because they are in different categories (although the difference between IG and SM is not quite -that- big).

And before you pull up Cain or Gaunt, we have a word for that: it's called 'plot armour'.

Yes, when you override repeatedly quantified capabilities with non-specified anecdotes, it is plot armour.

 Spinner wrote:
A melee between a Marine and, say, a handful of Guardsmen recruited from a hive world's aristocracy is probably going to include people going for precision strikes, targeting joints, and so forth (blocking would probably be an issue because, y'know. You want to keep your arm. The Guardsmen are probably better off dodging in this scenario).

A melee between a Space Marine and a handfull of a Hive World's aristocracy is going to result in a dead Marine in no time flat.

Recall that the Hive aristocracy will have (and use) their hyper-tech Syprer suits, pumping them full of stims and such for superhuman capabilities. As the Hunters gain experience, they unlock the various enhanced features of their suits. An experienced Orrus is pretty close to a match for any regular Marine. Back him with a couple Jakaras and a Malcadon, and things finish up very quickly.

tl;dr, a solo Space Marine has ZERO chance against a full Spyre Hunt Team of a hive world's aristocracy.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
We know that a Space Marine (Source: Void Stalker) is capable of sprinting 10 meters from stationary and vaulting a command console in that time.

It's simply not a fair fight.

True. But let me arm those Guardsmen with Multi-Lazors (source: C.S. Goto) and appropriate plot armor. A single Guardsmen will easily clear an entire Company of Space Marines without breaking a sweat.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Let's assume a normal heartbeat takes half a second.

We know that a Space Marine (Source: Void Stalker) is capable of sprinting 10 meters from stationary and vaulting a command console in that time.

Let's also assume that the vaulting part ate 1/4th of the time that the whole movement took.

That means we have 0,375 seconds for running 10 meters.

That's something like 30 meters per second, or 95 kph, or about 152 mph (!)

No, it's much worse than that. 152mph is an average time, but remember that the marine has to accelerate to reach his top speed, then slow down again to stop at the end of the 10m. So the peak speed needs to be much higher. Let's assume the best-case scenario of a constant acceleration to the midpoint, followed by a constant deceleration to a stop. Do a little physics math and this gives us a required acceleration of 28.99 Gs, and a peak speed of ~190 km/h (~188 mph). For comparison, this is well past "this could kill you" levels for a normal human and in the same general range of slamming a car into a solid wall at 75mph. So not only would the space marine probably be in danger of death or serious injury you have to consider the effects on the environment. The footsteps required to generate ~30 G acceleration would be smashing holes in the ground, etc. And this is the best-case scenario of constant acceleration. In reality you can't accelerate constantly by running, you'll have little spikes of force generated by each step. So peak acceleration would be considerably higher, and the space marine would be considerably more dead.

So, I think it's safe to say that "in the space of a single heartbeat" is not meant to be a literal description.

He is not only fast, he is far too fast for even the best human in the galaxy to counter. Unmodified humans have a delay time of 0,5 seconds between seeing something with their eyes and the information being registered in their brain, with additional time then added for deciding on an action and tasking the muscles with carrying out that action. Marines have faster reaction times than that, repeatedly described (I have a ton of sources if you'd like) as being able to move faster than the eye can follow and with millisecond reaction times (Example source: Space Wolf Omnibus page 258).

And yet somehow every time we actually see marines (for example, the GW space marine movie) they move at normal human speeds, if not slower. This is not what space marines look like:

tl;dr, a solo Space Marine has ZERO chance against a full Spyre Hunt Team of a hive world's aristocracy.

unless he is a Space Wolfs. Space Wolfs solo assasins which are breed and made to kill dudes who may have spyre rigged guards with them.
And as Ultramarines>every other marine and SW=marines, an ultramarine could solo them too.

Physics denying Space Marines...

Just think about this.

A Space Marine cant simply travel at 95 kmph to run 10 meters. He must first start from 0 kmph and then slow down before reaching the 10M mark. This means it gets very messy when accelerating. To put it simply.

All the while reading heart beats selectively, being able to use muscles and STAYING conscious while you try take on Gs that would kill humans is beyond stupid even as an exaggeration.

I think its clear that given how GW depicts a Space Marine they are not sons of Flash and Superman.

Yeah, not really the Flash, more like the Rhino. No one carrying 300lbs+ of armor can move so superhumanly fast.