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 Eldarain wrote:
Yup got all the conquest available now and Chaos in the Old World. Can't find the Horned Rat expansion anywhere though.

If it's still being sold until February then maybe Meeplemart or Starlit Citadel can still get it in from one distributor or another. Starlit claims they have distributors that have it:

http://www.starlitcitadel.com/games/warhammer-chaos-in-the-old-world-horned-rat-expansion.html

Anyone got a UK source for Horned Rat? I haven't picked it up till now because it's very rare that I have 5 hardcore boardgame players around, but if it's going out of print...

Sucks. FFG's roleplays are one of the only things that have kept me in to 40k all these years rather than having me drift from it in to some other hobby.

Is there anything good for Tyranids from FFG that I should be keeping my eye out before it's gone?

Tyranids were most fleshed out in the Deathwatch series. Core Rulebook has a few general 'Nid units, Mark of the Xenos has most of the rest, and then The Jericho Reach has a bunch of other Tyranid units (like all the FW units at the time).

 Eldarain wrote:
Yup got all the conquest available now and Chaos in the Old World. Can't find the Horned Rat expansion anywhere though.

Ordered a crap-ton of GW FFG games this morning.

Horned Rat was out of stock.

I went to or called all my local gamestores - all sold out. I saw it last week, should have picked it up then....

I checked all the online gamestores I have ordered from in the last 5 years (about 12) - all out except for one. I just ordered it, but we'll see if they actually have it in stock. It's a physical gamestore with an online presence, so I won't be surprised if actual inventory is zero once they initiate the pick order.

The price though - yikes! Better than the $120 on Ebay/Amazon though.

Qty Part No Name Options Price Discount Total
1 FFGGW04 THE HORNED RAT $24.95 $0.00 $24.95
Sub Total: $24.95
Shipping Type: Domestic
Shipping: $8.00
Tax: $0.00
Total: $32.95

Mez

CDiablo wrote:
Ever since FFG got bought out by ANA, I saw this coming. Why make games with the GW licenses when you can do the same with Star Wars or LOTR and not only sell 20x more copies, but can sell so well that you can get your games sold in Target/Walmart/etc. It makes no sense for ANA to work with GW whatsoever as the fanbase of GW is 1/100 of what Star Wars/LOTR is. The boardgaming community doesn't want to hear it but a lot of other FFG games are going to go out of print indefinitely in lieu of high selling licensed properties.

Yep. On top of this, Disney may be looking at FFG as an outsourced way to market of Star Wars to the hobby boardgaming market. Back when Star Wars was just one movie, George Lucas needed a way to keep Star Wars in the public, and toys and comics were it. Star Wars is no longer a series of movies. It's the movies, television, toys, collectible figures, mainstream games -- and hobby games. Disney, of course, isn't known for its hobby games, so I can easily think of FFG being the best way Disney can use the Star Wars license to keep the hobby boardgame segment of the public interested in Star Wars. "Steven Ekstract, group publisher of License! Global magazine, credits the merchandising and licensing for keeping fans involved between movies." http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/george-lucas-star-wars-288513

Games Workshop, of course, isn't using its games to sell movies. it's licensed its IP for computer games, but, afaik, that's about as multimedia as GW has gotten. GW has released boardgames in the past, and slowly is releasing more, even if these games are still "some assembly required" miniature boardgames. I don't see any reason why they can't hire known game designers to make games as good as FFG's. Certainly Kevin Wilson and The Sadler Brothers have worked for FFG, and are designing boardgames for other companies (much like Alessandro Calvero left GW to design games for for Mantic and other companies).

Licensing *isn't* just handing another party a wad of cash. Licensing is a way for the licensee to market its IP without the investment of employing the people for it, or creating the infrastructure necessary for it.

Hmm, that's a big disappointment.

To those familiar, which should I be looking at grabbing before they're gone? I'll definitely be considering at least one other 40k RPG (have Black crusade, definitely want at least one other), but what of their other licensed games should I be eyeing?

Inside scoop, Source is on first name basis with Christian Petersen:

FFG was aware that they would lose the license "more than a year ago", the way it was said made it seem like it was more like 2+, though it wasnt an "official" thing so much as it was "were probably not going to be renewing it".

FFG developed a game for a GW IP and reskinned it to another setting and released it, source wouldnt reveal what game but I *think* he subtley implied that Armada started out as a Battlefleet Gothic game.

It was more of a mutual decision than anything else, as FFG and GW couldnt find agreeable terms. GW was unhappy with the success of FFGs XWing and Imperial Assault, and began to view FFG as a direct competitor in the marketplace. Word is that GW demanded that FFG cease production of those product lines with the threat that they wouldnt renew the license if FFG did not comply. FFG, naturally, said "hell no". This was quite some time ago and is the reason why FFG "knew" they would be losing the license, further work on all unannounced GW products was halted at this time, with the exception of those that were well into the development and/or production process, such as Conquest, they didnt want to leave the last cycle incomplete. They also didnt want to take the chance that GW would relent when the terms came up for renegotiation (sometime in the past 3 months), so they felt it better to continue work on something that was viewed as low cost and low risk in the event that the license was pulled.

FFG is going to be taking a bit of a hit as a result of the loss of the license, or would have if they werent now part of Asmodee. Prior to acquisition, GW IP accounted for something like 10-20% of FFGs revenue (possible hyperbole?).

Believed Rune Wars was developed in part to spite GW, not so much because there is resentment, but more because of incredulity over GWs demands that FFG drop some of its biggest sellers and GWs belief that FFG was now a competitor. Something like "We'll shoe them what competition really looks like."

chaos0xomega wrote:
Inside scoop, Source is on first name basis with Christian Petersen:

FFG was aware that they would lose the license "more than a year ago", the way it was said made it seem like it was more like 2+, though it wasnt an "official" thing so much as it was "were probably not going to be renewing it".

FFG developed a game for a GW IP and reskinned it to another setting and released it, source wouldnt reveal what game but I *think* he subtley implied that Armada started out as a Battlefleet Gothic game.

It was more of a mutual decision than anything else, as FFG and GW couldnt find agreeable terms. GW was unhappy with the success of FFGs XWing and Imperial Assault, and began to view FFG as a direct competitor in the marketplace. Word is that GW demanded that FFG cease production of those product lines with the threat that they wouldnt renew the license if FFG did not comply. FFG, naturally, said "hell no". This was quite some time ago and is the reason why FFG "knew" they would be losing the license, further work on all unannounced GW products was halted at this time, with the exception of those that were well into the development and/or production process, such as Conquest, they didnt want to leave the last cycle incomplete. They also didnt want to take the chance that GW would relent when the terms came up for renegotiation (sometime in the past 3 months), so they felt it better to continue work on something that was viewed as low cost and low risk in the event that the license was pulled.

FFG is going to be taking a bit of a hit as a result of the loss of the license, or would have if they werent now part of Asmodee. Prior to acquisition, GW IP accounted for something like 10-20% of FFGs revenue (possible hyperbole?).

Believed Rune Wars was developed in part to spite GW, not so much because there is resentment, but more because of incredulity over GWs demands that FFG drop some of its biggest sellers and GWs belief that FFG was now a competitor. Something like "We'll shoe them what competition really looks like."

This makes a lot of sense, even if it turns out false. Also explains why GW was looking for new talent. Still, losing 10-20% with no direct replacement wont be good for them. Will have to see how this goes. If Rune Wars doesnt take off in a timely fashion I could see there being larger issues at play. Normally I wouldn't say that of a large company, but for a great deal of time people thought Armada had been disconti ued due to the extremely long wait inbetween expansions. Not feeling too thrilled about the new games prospects atm.

Btw is it me or does Fantasy Flights Logo look like 2 F's giving each other 69. I never really noticed that until just now.

Unless GW fills the hole in the marketplace they created by withdrawing the license or find a new licensee it's ultimately lost revenue for them too. I don't believe FFG needed to continue with GW's IP. Even if it was 10-20% of their revenue the fact that it was licensed generally means it's a lower margin item for them. FFG is in the position of more than once showing they can successfully produce product for licensed IP; they are more diversified and will find it easier to replace those games than GW will find it replacing them as a licensee.

To hell with GW. Those donkey-caves keep shooting themselves in the foot.

Now going to check our Rune Wars.

FFG's RPGs were by far the best 40K fluff that I had read for years. The games themselves weren't all that good but I got them for the fluff anyway.

The few threads that still connected me to the 40K universe are now starting to snap.

The Hadex Anomaly from the Jericho reach is pictured on the DW codex map of hot spots. It doesn't list the fortress though. I think this is their nod to link it to canon even if its tenuous.

CDiablo wrote:
Ever since FFG got bought out by ANA, I saw this coming. Why make games with the GW licenses when you can do the same with Star Wars or LOTR and not only sell 20x more copies, but can sell so well that you can get your games sold in Target/Walmart/etc. It makes no sense for ANA to work with GW whatsoever as the fanbase of GW is 1/100 of what Star Wars/LOTR is. The boardgaming community doesn't want to hear it but a lot of other FFG games are going to go out of print indefinitely in lieu of high selling licensed properties.

It makes sense because FFG can do both. Unlike GW FFG understands the concept of diversifying your product lines, they have a whole bunch of random side games in addition to the big Star Wars licensed stuff. If the GW license is still making money then why not keep making money with it? The only explanation that makes sense is that this was a refusal on GW's end, either by outright denying a renewal or by insisting on new terms that were no longer profitable for FFG. And it fits with the speculation/rumors over the past year or so that GW wasn't very happy with FFG's expansion into miniatures games (and generally being more than "those people who make licensed 40k stuff for us"). In that context this news doesn't surprise me at all, it's just confirmation of something that seemed kind of inevitable.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Anyone got a UK source for Horned Rat? I haven't picked it up till now because it's very rare that I have 5 hardcore boardgame players around, but if it's going out of print...

You don't want the expansion for the 5th player. You want it for the new set of Chaos Cards and Upgrade Cards for the original Ruinous Powers. Alternative set of cards give totally different (yet equally awesome) gameplay experience.

Neronoxx wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Inside scoop, Source is on first name basis with Christian Petersen:

FFG was aware that they would lose the license "more than a year ago", the way it was said made it seem like it was more like 2+, though it wasnt an "official" thing so much as it was "were probably not going to be renewing it".

FFG developed a game for a GW IP and reskinned it to another setting and released it, source wouldnt reveal what game but I *think* he subtley implied that Armada started out as a Battlefleet Gothic game.

It was more of a mutual decision than anything else, as FFG and GW couldnt find agreeable terms. GW was unhappy with the success of FFGs XWing and Imperial Assault, and began to view FFG as a direct competitor in the marketplace. Word is that GW demanded that FFG cease production of those product lines with the threat that they wouldnt renew the license if FFG did not comply. FFG, naturally, said "hell no". This was quite some time ago and is the reason why FFG "knew" they would be losing the license, further work on all unannounced GW products was halted at this time, with the exception of those that were well into the development and/or production process, such as Conquest, they didnt want to leave the last cycle incomplete. They also didnt want to take the chance that GW would relent when the terms came up for renegotiation (sometime in the past 3 months), so they felt it better to continue work on something that was viewed as low cost and low risk in the event that the license was pulled.

FFG is going to be taking a bit of a hit as a result of the loss of the license, or would have if they werent now part of Asmodee. Prior to acquisition, GW IP accounted for something like 10-20% of FFGs revenue (possible hyperbole?).

Believed Rune Wars was developed in part to spite GW, not so much because there is resentment, but more because of incredulity over GWs demands that FFG drop some of its biggest sellers and GWs belief that FFG was now a competitor. Something like "We'll shoe them what competition really looks like."

This makes a lot of sense, even if it turns out false. Also explains why GW was looking for new talent. Still, losing 10-20% with no direct replacement wont be good for them. Will have to see how this goes. If Rune Wars doesnt take off in a timely fashion I could see there being larger issues at play. Normally I wouldn't say that of a large company, but for a great deal of time people thought Armada had been disconti ued due to the extremely long wait inbetween expansions. Not feeling too thrilled about the new games prospects atm.

meh, they have SW and the nb1 miniature game (well i think the numbers are for NA only right?), I don't think they are too worried, honestly GW looks to be the bigger looser in this one

Enosh wrote:
meh, they have SW and the nb1 miniature game (well i think the numbers are for NA only right?), I don't think they are too worried, honestly GW looks to be the bigger looser in this one

And the GoT license. And Netrunner. And a whole lot of board games. I think it's safe to say FFG has some backup plans available.

chaos0xomega wrote:

FFG developed a game for a GW IP and reskinned it to another setting and released it, source wouldnt reveal what game but I *think* he subtley implied that Armada started out as a Battlefleet Gothic game.

Not Runewars? That would seemed the more likely. Xwing is doing incredibly well and when they started introducing the small capital ships I always thought it was inevitable we would get a fleet based game. It seems logical and likely a bigger seller than BFG version. On the other hand Runewars seemed to come out of nowhere. I could imagine that once they knew WFB was gone that creating a ranked file battle game based on Warhammer could be a hit; and it would also make more sense for it being refused as it could potentially divert sales away from AoS.

chaos0xomega wrote:
It was more of a mutual decision than anything else, as FFG and GW couldnt find agreeable terms. GW was unhappy with the success of FFGs XWing and Imperial Assault, and began to view FFG as a direct competitor in the marketplace. Word is that GW demanded that FFG cease production of those product lines with the threat that they wouldnt renew the license if FFG did not comply.

Typical GW really! Rather than be competitive they would prefer just to force companies to stop producing models that are eating into their sales. I suppose it shows just how seriously they see FFG growth is, given that their ability to grow and capture more of their market is vastly better than GWs (which is relying on the old faithful to keep spending more on less). Also I'd hardly call this mutual; demanding that the licensee stops selling it's most profitable line seems more like bullying.

chaos0xomega wrote:
FFG is going to be taking a bit of a hit as a result of the loss of the license, or would have if they werent now part of Asmodee. Prior to acquisition, GW IP accounted for something like 10-20% of FFGs revenue (possible hyperbole?).

Possibly initially but I think GW are more likely to lose in the long run. FFG has better marketing in some ways than GW so FFG probably raised GWs profile in some areas from association with other games. This will go with the end of the licence. It may also free up FFG to expand into areas it couldn't in the past. Ironically GW may have just forced them to become an even greater competitor.

Just a shame they didn't use Warcraft as the focus over Runewars.. mainly as I'd have probably jumped in with a Warcraft wargame.. plus if that suggestion is correct and Runewars is to spite GW.. why not go for the whole double insult.. not only counter GW with a Wargame, but use Warcraft.

I say forget Warcraft, where are my Diablo 3 minis? Or hell, where is my Magic the Gathering Minis?

FFG had WoW-licenced stuff for awhile, awhile ago. WoW's popularity has hit a big slide as the game jumped the shark in recent years, so possibly no longer worth the licence costs.

I bought up a copy of chaos in the old world but can't find a english copy of the horned rat expansion unless paying 3-6 times the rrp on ebay or amazon.

It does appear to be readily available in germany so does anyone know if there is a list of the cards details available anywhere so i could translate them?

keep in mind if GW canceled the lisence due to FFG entering compeition, they likely didn't have much choice, as a lisencee FFG may have been getting behind the scenes information that GW, frankly, wasn't comfortable with sharing with a direct competitor.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Just a shame they didn't use Warcraft as the focus over Runewars.. mainly as I'd have probably jumped in with a Warcraft wargame.. plus if that suggestion is correct and Runewars is to spite GW.. why not go for the whole double insult.. not only counter GW with a Wargame, but use Warcraft.

Problem is, it would still be a licensed property, leaving them with the same problem that led them to losing/dropping the GW license. While I do believe that Starcraft and Warcraft miniatures games in a scale similar to WarmaHordes could topple GW if done right, who knows how long they would last and how well they would be managed due to being licensed?

 mekkiah wrote:
I bought up a copy of chaos in the old world but can't find a english copy of the horned rat expansion unless paying 3-6 times the rrp on ebay or amazon.

It does appear to be readily available in germany so does anyone know if there is a list of the cards details available anywhere so i could translate them?

Well, you could download the German rules for the main game (they're free) and compare them to the English ones to get the terms and some recurring textes that should appear in the expansion too (and then impress/shock your opponents with some Reikspiel ). I guess there're enough rules discussions on the net to fill in the remaining gaps

Grabbed the last Relic expansion. Just need the final two Conquest warpacks and The Horned Rat and I'll be happy with my existing FFG 40k games.

I'm gonna order the final Relic expansion tomorrow. Don't want to miss out! Skipped Conquest, and I'm glad of that now.

I'm happy to have the complete collection of Conquest. I mostly play against friends using my collection so not your traditional ccg scene.