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TheWaspinator wrote: Yeah, I really hope they stick with height-based LOS. The way that TLOS treats figures as literal statues is really stupid. People claim TLOS is immersive, but what's immersive about a figure in a crouching pose apparently sliding around the battlefield on his knees? Different figure poses having actual gameplay effects is insane.
Agreed entirely, TLOS was the reason I got out of 40k in 5th.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Firefight uses the same or similar system to KOW with a height chart.
Deadzone does use TLOS, I couldn't really see another way of doing it. A board with enough terrain to play deadzone is too dense and complex for the height chart to work well. It'd slow things down. It doesn't matter really though, I can't think of any models that could be easily modelled for advantage.
To be honest playing Marauders during V1 the Rainmaker is a double edged sword. While a clear shot is harder to get its he's huge. He's basically sniper bait or was versus Enforcers. There are very few battlezone tiles that he can't be seen through. unless your really careful.
your right in that it is sort of an advantage, but In my opinion it's more of a hindrance.
I haven't played marauders in V2 yet as there soaking in super clean.
MLaw wrote: It utterly paralyzes a unit. It's total binary.
That's real life suppression.
MLaw wrote: I've thankfully never been in an actual firefight with guns, but in paintball, video games, movies, etc..
That's not suppression at all.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
MLaw wrote: It utterly paralyzes a unit. It's total binary.
That's real life suppression.
MLaw wrote: I've thankfully never been in an actual firefight with guns, but in paintball, video games, movies, etc..
That's not suppression at all.
Well, tabletop wargames aren't a real firefight either. Since a tabletop wargame IS entertainment which my examples are, then they are more valid than yours and my point is proven and correct.
MLaw wrote: It utterly paralyzes a unit. It's total binary.
That's real life suppression.
MLaw wrote: I've thankfully never been in an actual firefight with guns, but in paintball, video games, movies, etc..
That's not suppression at all.
Well, tabletop wargames aren't a real firefight either. Since a tabletop wargame IS entertainment which my examples are, then they are more valid than yours and my point is proven and correct.
Hmm, your point was that you would prefer unrealistic or no suppression, which is entertaining to you (paint ball, video games, action movies), and I prefer a suppression mechanic that emulates reality, which is entertaining to me (I guess why I love Bolt Action and GoA so much)
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
@judgedoug I see your point but as far as game terms I think the DZ V1 suppression makes less sense than the FF suppression. I assume that if you were pinned like that long enough you'd try to pull back and reposition. In V1 you could be put down 2 aggression levels, meaning that a units activations got used up with out the unit getting to pull back.
Its more realistic for sure as a single unit/person would hunker down and wait for the right moment to reposition or for covering fire/smoke etc. but for DZ you've got monsters running around munching on folks. Close quarters combat of that level isn't something that you could model on Real life. For me the change to suppression is unfortunate for realism but as a balancing change it is needed for setting and for fun.
The DZ V2v1.5 Firing for effect and Pinned rules for those that haven't had a look. Not aimed at anyone just a bit of intel.
Spoiler:
Firing for Effect
Models using a weapon with the Rapid Fire ability may choose to Fire for Effect, laying down suppressive fire in an attempt to pin down their opponents. The active model must declare whether they are Firing for Effect before rolling any dice. Firing for Effect uses all of the same modifiers as a standard Shoot action, and counts as a shoot action.
Pinned
A model that starts its activation Pinned(lying down_ must choose Stand Up as its first action.
A pinned model that is attacked in a Fight action wil Stand Up automatically and without counting it as an action. Their opponent gains the +1 for fighting a pinned enemy only during that first fight.
Stand up(short)
A pinned model must choose Stand Up as its first action of its turn, if it acts at all. It owner positions the model standing up, anywhere in the same cube.
Typed up as the formatting goes crazy when I try and copy/paste it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/01 17:51:08
I like the truck design, but I am wondering if it will be scaled such that a standard GCPS trooper model could feasibly fit inside it, or if it we'll see a repeat of the Mantic Walkers, which are supposed to contain troopers but look like only a Zee would fit in them.
I don't need three, and don't know if the individual price + shipping is really a good deal, so I'm not compelled to roll the dice on possible scale issues.
Dakkadakka: Bringing wargamers together, one smile at a time.™
They've requested a scale render so hopefully that will turn up before end of March
Creator Mantic Games 34 minutes ago
@Dave Already requested, but each of these images takes a long time to render out .
also on extra orders and shipping
I have checked every avenue I can and the short answer is we can't correct the issue now.
The longer answer is that we'd have to take the PM down and mess with some of the inner workings to get it fixed, so we'd have to close the PM now and it wouldn't re-open in time to have orders fulfilled.
Refunds will be processed after the Pledge Manager has closed. We will need both order numbers for it to work.
Some of the vehicles were the main reason I was so torn on whether or not to back. I personally think the Enforcer Dropship turned out alright and that Mule looks sweet. The others.. eh.. I've not been swayed. I would buy a Mule or two for terrain or a diorama if nothing else. Those are pretty nice.
judgedoug wrote: Hmm, your point was that you would prefer unrealistic or no suppression, which is entertaining to you (paint ball, video games, action movies), and I prefer a suppression mechanic that emulates reality, which is entertaining to me (I guess why I love Bolt Action and GoA so much)
But Bolt Action's pinning mechanic isn't binary: more suppression makes orders less likely, but an Elite unit with one pin is very likely to follow orders, while a conscript unit shot by three different squads will struggle to pass an order check.
NobodyXY wrote: @judgedoug I see your point but as far as game terms I think the DZ V1 suppression makes less sense than the FF suppression. I assume that if you were pinned like that long enough you'd try to pull back and reposition. In V1 you could be put down 2 aggression levels, meaning that a units activations got used up with out the unit getting to pull back.
Its more realistic for sure as a single unit/person would hunker down and wait for the right moment to reposition or for covering fire/smoke etc. but for DZ you've got monsters running around munching on folks. Close quarters combat of that level isn't something that you could model on Real life. For me the change to suppression is unfortunate for realism but as a balancing change it is needed for setting and for fun.
The DZ V2v1.5 Firing for effect and Pinned rules for those that haven't had a look. Not aimed at anyone just a bit of intel.
Spoiler:
Firing for Effect
Models using a weapon with the Rapid Fire ability may choose to Fire for Effect, laying down suppressive fire in an attempt to pin down their opponents. The active model must declare whether they are Firing for Effect before rolling any dice. Firing for Effect uses all of the same modifiers as a standard Shoot action, and counts as a shoot action.
Pinned
A model that starts its activation Pinned(lying down_ must choose Stand Up as its first action.
A pinned model that is attacked in a Fight action wil Stand Up automatically and without counting it as an action. Their opponent gains the +1 for fighting a pinned enemy only during that first fight.
Stand up(short)
A pinned model must choose Stand Up as its first action of its turn, if it acts at all. It owner positions the model standing up, anywhere in the same cube.
Typed up as the formatting goes crazy when I try and copy/paste it.
I will never understand why they pick all these weird names for suppressive fire, like "blaze away" or "fire for effect", instead of just calling it... suppressive fire. It's even there in the text!
I feel like such a dork for this, but what are the best games to play that don't have a rage quit and watch TV suppression mechanic? I know my group of friends and family, and any mechanic that results in "roll a die to see if you even get to attempt to move next turn" is pretty much grounds for assault in their eyes.
For the record, my most patient gamer friend is my brother...who moved 500 miles away. My next most patient is father who got through almost two games of KoW (thanks for the lists, Azazel!) before declaring it was too complicated for him to follow and that "Dungeons and Dragons" (What he calls FFG's Descent) is about as complex a game as he can handle.
I'm betting (well, buying) Mars Attacks will work when the boy is old enough, but jeez. Simulating real soldiers' experiences in real combat? How many turns do we spend getting STD tests and hiring divorce lawyers?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I feel like such a dork for this, but what are the best games to play that don't have a rage quit and watch TV suppression mechanic? I know my group of friends and family, and any mechanic that results in "roll a die to see if you even get to attempt to move next turn" is pretty much grounds for assault in their eyes.
For the record, my most patient gamer friend is my brother...who moved 500 miles away. My next most patient is father who got through almost two games of KoW (thanks for the lists, Azazel!) before declaring it was too complicated for him to follow and that "Dungeons and Dragons" (What he calls FFG's Descent) is about as complex a game as he can handle.
I'm betting (well, buying) Mars Attacks will work when the boy is old enough, but jeez. Simulating real soldiers' experiences in real combat? How many turns do we spend getting STD tests and hiring divorce lawyers?
ROFL I've been in and around the military almost my whole life and that's as real as it gets brother..
Gotta test to see if you're hung over before the fight too... and if you forgot to do Combat Gaks then you're in for some brown when the shooting starts.
Mars Attacks had my boys amused quite a while. I have no idea what the mechanics are like just that they disappeared with the box on Christmas and they played several times. Try VOID 1.1. The rules are free on Scotia Grendel's site or you can order the books if you prefer. The sculpts are a bit dated but still as good or better than a lot of ranges and the prices are reasonable.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I need to see how many guys I can jam in the back of that truck.
Get on it Mantic! You know that's what everyone is wondering!
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I need to see how many guys I can jam in the back of that truck.
Get on it Mantic! You know that's what everyone is wondering!
My non-sarcastic guess is one.
I think it's one of those things where if you had non-based, seated guys.. you could probably get a really respectable amount back there. Since that's not how it works though.. I think one is a good bet.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I need to see how many guys I can jam in the back of that truck.
Get on it Mantic! You know that's what everyone is wondering!
My non-sarcastic guess is one.
I think it's one of those things where if you had non-based, seated guys.. you could probably get a really respectable amount back there. Since that's not how it works though.. I think one is a good bet.
Yep, if you had models cast up sitting, you'd probably get 4 (2x2 sitting side by side). Based, probably one. Wasn't there a pic/sketch of this vehicle at one point during the KS that showed it was actually a fair bit smaller than everyone expected. Like one driver and no internal passenger sized?
Yeah, bases kind of mess with transport capacity. It's kind of hard to fit into the back of a truck when everyone is wearing giant frisbees on their ankles.
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
