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Hey guys. Played a fantastic game of 40k using the new IG rules against a very tuned and competitive ork list. It was awesome, I learned a lot. And it had me pacing my apartment until 1:30 am making tweaks to my list.

I played against KevinNash and he used a tweaked version of the list I took to the Vegas GT. My IG list was not focused on orks per se. But I certainly took them into consideration when taking one or two choices.

Ok, without further ado. Here are the lists.

Orks

2x kff meks with burnas

2x15 lootas

2x20 shoota boys with klaw nob

1x30 shoota boys with klaw nob

3x1 deffkoptas with buzzsaws and tl rokkits

3x3 killa kans with skorchas

IG

company command squad regimental banner 3x meltas astropath officer of the fleet in a chimera

platoon command squad 4x flamers in a chimera

1x10 infantry squad plasma/autocannon with commissar
2x10 infantry squad plasma/autocannon
2x6 special weapons squad 3x flamers

10x veterans 3x meltaguns in a chimera

valkyrie with multiple rocket pods

valkyrie with multiple rocket pods

3x sentinels

leman russ eradicator

colossus with camo netting

3x griffon


I was playing an away game over at KevinNash's house. Which meant I got a steak dinner too! He had set up the table in his kitchen, I just walked in and we started rolling mission. We got a 4 objective seize ground with pitched battle deployment.

I placed two objectives at extreme opposite corners, and he placed his two objectives as close as possible to my objectives, while being as centrally located as possible. His plan was to have his boy units holding two objectives with one unit. My plan was to give my colossus something to shoot at for as long as possible.

He won the roll to choose... and chose to play. He took the side that had a large ruins on one flank, and deployed. The deployment of that army if you didn't know, is the kans spread as wide as posible across the battle line, with the KFF meks at the points in between the units, joined to shoota boys. The shoota boys deploy wide enough to give the lootas that deploy behind them plenty of LOS.

I deployed my infantry squads near the two objectives on my left, but back away from the orks, I had to deploy two of the units in rows. That was ok, I was sure he'd have a 4+ cover all the way in anyway.

My 4x flamer PCS was on my extreme left parked right in front of my colossus. It had order range on 2 of the 3 line squads to its immediate right. to the left of my infantry formation I had the company command squad, It has range of all three units for its orders, and directy in front of its chimera was the leman russ eradicator.

On my right flank I had the vets in chimera and he three griffon unit, which found a spot to get a cover save behid some ruins. I held the valks in reserve along with the sentinels, and declared that i would be outflanking with all three of them. The two special weapons squads were in the valkyries.

Ok, I don't seize the initiative, and we get off to playing.

turn 1 orks. He shoots my platoon command squad chimera with lootas and kill it, but not blowing it up. He shoots his other lootas at my griffon battery and weapon destroys one and crew shakes the other one. he gets some good run rolls on his kans and says 'go'

turn 1 IG. I put the colossus and the russ into one loota unit, taking it down to 8 strong, I put the one griffon that can fire into the other loota unit, killing 5. Both Loota units survive their pinning checks and their morale tests. I used two 'bring it down's on the kans with plasma guns and autocannons, but he makes every 4+ save, my chimeras just put some softening shots into boys units, I think i kill 2 of each unit.

turn 2 orks. His reserves are spoiled thanks to the fleet officer. He moves everything even closer, gets some decent run rolls again, and is now breathing down my neck. One loota unit shoots at my griffons, and thanks to them being thinned down a bit and some better cover saves he only gets one pen and one glance. It resulted in my weapon destroyed griffon getting weapon destroyed again, and a griffon getting crew shaken again. His other loota unit Shot at the griffons also, but failed to do anything.

turn 2 IG. My valks showed up, but my sentinels rolled a 2. i brought them both in to support my left side. They are fast enough to move over to the other objectives in later turns. I basically unloaded everything I had into either the boy unit that was crashing into my objectives, and the one kan unit that was right in front of my infantry squads. This was make or break time. I wiped the ork unit down to a big mek with a single wound left, and I killed two kans and crew stunned the third. Thanks to a combination of 'bring it down' and all of my cover ignoring things. The griffon allowed for a 5+ cover from the KFF as did the 4 large blasts from the 2 valks. But I was able to really overwlem that unit.

turn 3 orks. He gets 2 of 3 koptas. He gets one on my right side, which i let him keep, he gets one on my left side which I ask him to re-roll with the fleet officer rule. he got the same side again. He unloads some flamer templates onto some IG, I'm spaced pretty well so nothing devastating happens. I pull a models to get the big mek out of charge range. KevinNash wasn't to thrilled about he big mek surviving a CC with only one wound left and a 6+ save, so that didn't matter. His koptas breathed new hope into his army. The kopta on my left flank downed a valkyrie, killing all but one of the special weapon squadmates. the kopta on my right, blew up the damaged griffon and weapon destoyed a fresh one. One of his kan units charges my leman russ and shreds it. A big boy unit charges my veterans chimera and doe everything you could do to it without wrecking it.

turn 3 IG. My sentinels come on, I have them threatening both his bigger loota unit and the scoring shoota boys. They got the side I wanted after an astropath re-roll. My colossus and my griffon both go after the lootas one last time. And run one off the table an take the other unit down to one lowly loota, who fails his pin test but passes morale. The company command squad gets out and uses 'bring it down' on itself to kill 2 killa kans and crew shake another, the rest of my infantry squads crew stun the one that lived, and killed off the remaining kan. The veteran unit got out of its chimera and put 3 meltas into the third kan unit killing one and weapon destrying the klaw off the other. My flamer armed platoon command squad killed off the loitering deffkopta. The big mek with KFF was also killed by a chimera's multi-laser. My sentinels shot at and charged the small boy unit hiding in the woods, attempting to score the two objectives nearest the orks deployment. It was pretty underwhleming, I think they accounted for 4 models including the no retreat wounds. My last griffon was still in base to base with the deffkopta, and got weapon destroyed as a result. the valkyrie went flat out to position itself for serious harassment of the scoring ork unit.

turn 4 orks. With half of the entire table completely devoid of orks, and the one unit scoring two objectives getting a little thin, and no loota support, it was getting pretty scary for KevinNash. He had no shooting, so we move to assault, his remaining kan unit dual charged one of my infantry squads and the chimera, he put his still operating DCCW on the chimera, and fought the guardsmen with the klawless kan. He was able to kill the chimera but only one guardsman, the unit held thatnk to their proximity to the regimental banner (passed my morale on the second try) the huge shoota boy unit wiped out my veterans with shooting and charging, and consolidated towards the closest objective to them. He finally got the power klaw over to the sentinels, and trashed all three of them. They spread out with their consolidation.

turn 4 IG. The valkyrie moves to block/score one of the two ork objectives, I lob a colossus shell and the valkyries payload onto the remaining ork unit. It gets dropped to 7 models and gets pinned. I use move, move, move on the platoon command squad to slip into place claiming both of my home objectives, and move everything else to make absolutely sure that some wacky turn 7 double charge doesn't cost me the game. I tank shock the deffkopta with my badly damaged griffon and it runs.

turn 5 orks. The last deffkopta shows up and he rolls the wrong side. He ends up turbo boosting onto the table so he has a chance at blocking the objective that the valkyrie is actually currently scoring. the other deffkopta runs some more, the kan unit rolls poorly and remains stuck on my now 4 strong infantry squad. His ork unit heading as fast as it can for the objective held by the valkyrie rolls a 1 for its run. Sealing their fate.

turn 5 IG. KevinNash taps out. It looked like I could use a combination of the valkyrie and the colossus to wipe that 7 strong ork unit off the table, leaving me with 2 or 3 objectives and the orks with 0. (2 because he could conceivably block with his fresh deffkopta.


Aftermath. Well, I was way too happy to beat up on a friend, but KevinNash's orks have been a reign of terror on the gaming group for a while. My only army I could give him a game against was marines, and I can't recall every really giving him a beating like this.

I have a bunch of thoughts about IG, and a tweaked new list to share.

First off. As far as I'm concerned, both the astropath and the fleet officer are mandatory. Just make 1690 lists. Your guns need time to work and the fleet officer buys them that time. Astropath + outflank is AMAZING.

Second. I was really worried about the colossus. i loved its offensive potential but that 36" min range scared me. Well, its all good. Objective placement is key here. In capture and control games, you'll always be able to rain on their objective, and whatever is trying to score it. In seize ground you just have to make sure that you spread those objectives as wide as possible. Which brings me to my next thought.

Valks and vendettas are STRONG. Spread objectives all over the table, fire ordnance in the early turns, and then swoop in with outflankers that have an 88% chance to show up on the right side of the table. They come in on 3+ on turn 2. 2+ on turn 3? It's just awesome. their firepower is really good as well. I'm very partial to the valk, with its ability to move 12" and fire 2 large blasts AND a multilaser. But I think I'll be including a vendetta as well for side and rear shots.

The griffons were certainly solid, and worth the points, as was the eradicator. The eradicator did a better job as a screen for other vehicles, but its large blast certainly hurts the vast majority of infantry in 40k. And 36" range is workable, if a bit short. Fortunately a list like this has the longer range covered.

The infantry squads felt so great for me. I LOVE autocannon plasma. I was issuing 'bring it down' on them most of the game and getting 3 or 4 strength 7 hits on vehicles, they are pretty survivable with ablative wounds and come with standard LD8. The order system certainly had a game impact, I lost count of how many re-rolls I took on both autocannon shots and plasma. I was tempted to start out with veterans in chimeras exclusively. But now I think autocannons + bring it down is too strong to exclude. The special weapons squads were a little lame. The valk dies and they have a real good chance of getting pinned. if it blows up, they are going to have to take a pin test and certainly a morale test for losing models. With two tests to make and only LD7, they aren't really a survivable option as valk riders.

sentinels are still completely ho-hum. Orks are about the best army you can hope to face with sentinels, and they performed as milquetoast as ever. And they are taking a slot for a valk/vend.

As always, the game was fun and it was real tight until the bottom half of turn 3. We both have some tightening up to do of the lists, and he's going to have to get used to facing some of the new IG tools. And I'm going to have to get used to using them.

Sorry no pictures, thanks for reading and replying.

nice report. thanks for the insight. I am very happy about the possibilities with guard.

Heck yea man i posted a list on the army list forum i was wondering if you can comment on it!!

So, you said you were up to 1:30 a.m. afterwards tweaking your army - what's it look like now?

nickt2245 wrote:Heck yea man i posted a list on the army list forum i was wondering if you can comment on it!!

Heading over there right now....

Death By Monkeys wrote:So, you said you were up to 1:30 a.m. afterwards tweaking your army - what's it look like now?

company command squad regimental banner 3x meltas astropath fleet officer chimera

platoon command squad 4x meltas in a chimera

4x10 autocannon/plasma infantry squads

platoon command squad 4x meltas

2x10 heavy bolter grenade launcher infantry squads

valk rocket pods

valk rocket pods

vendetta

LR eradicator

3x griffons

colossus


The second wimpier platoon goes in the three valks and they outflank. Everything else is about the same as far as strategy goes.

I was making the list and I got to 1710. I sat there forever figuring out what to spend those 40 point on. The camo net almost went on the colossus, and then I looked at that commissar...

I'm convinced after playing a handful of games with the new dex that I'll only blob for KP missions. And that troops are never really priority targets for snatching up quick KPs especially when the IG army has so much other nasty stuff wailing on you the whole game. I decided I'd rather have an even number of platoons, and combo into 20 strong units, I don't really care if a 150 point unit gets overrun by some massively expensive CC unit, It's probably done its damage already, and then Im guaranteed to be able to shoot at the assaulters right away.

I'm not 100% sure on this change. The commissar is certainly good and may come back. But if I can keep my line squads under the regimental banner, then I'm ok with them holding for shooting morale and dropping for CC morale.

As for the SWS squads. I'm pretty convinced they are just awful. No sergeant, 5.8 points per model, with no discount to weapons costs, they are just such a non-factor. even with 3 meltas you aren't guaranteed to get a kill shot off. I'd rather invest another 15 points to get leadership 8 four more wounds and a heavy weapon to use on annihilation missions where I've got no reason to start in a valk.

My heavy support slots aren't quite finalized yet, but i've like all three of them so far. Hoping to figure out w set up that is maxmium efficiency then use that. Right now I don't want to give up the russ because its a great cover save giver to the wimpier stuff. I LOVE the colossus, and the griffons are alright as well. I'm just going to ahve to get a better spread of matchups before I decide what stays and what goes.

I'm glad to hear about your experience with the SWS squads - kinda confirms my earlier thoughts about them. Tank-killing should really be left to the CCS/PCS.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're planning on using the HB/GL squads for - taking/defending objectives? Do you plan on ever really unloading them out of the Valks? If not, then why even up-arm them with the HB/GL? I mean, it's not like they can shoot out of the Valk. I do think the PCS in the Vendetta is the way to go, though.

I think the Commissar could stay or go, although for orders, voxes are cheaper and more effective than Commissars.

You don't sound sold on the Eradicator yet. Was it that much more effective than a standard LRBT would have been? Would it have been worth the points to upgrade it to a plasma Demolisher/Executioner? Or worth the points to add a second ablative Russ? (I've thought about running pairs of Eradicators.)

Sounds like the Griffons did the job as promised and frankly, I'm a little surprised to hear that the Colossus did as well as it did.

And I've been throwing this concept around a lot lately to see what folks think about it, but would a second CCS with another Fleet Officer have been worth taking?

Death By Monkeys wrote:I'm glad to hear about your experience with the SWS squads - kinda confirms my earlier thoughts about them. Tank-killing should really be left to the CCS/PCS.

Yep. They aren't hard to get, they cost a little bit more, but they have leadership and orders, and sometimes BS4

Death By Monkeys wrote:I'm not quite sure I understand what you're planning on using the HB/GL squads for - taking/defending objectives? Do you plan on ever really unloading them out of the Valks? If not, then why even up-arm them with the HB/GL? I mean, it's not like they can shoot out of the Valk. I do think the PCS in the Vendetta is the way to go, though.

Yeah, it makes sense in my head... let me see if i can communicate it. So first off, in annihilation missions, the PCS would still go in the vendetta, but I don't think I'll bother loading the valkyries. In those games I'll deploy the two infantry squads on the table, blobbed. I'd want a couple heavy weapons at that point, autocannons could provide a little more flexibility but i really think I have light vehicles TOTALLY covered at this point. I chose GLs as a special because in the missions where they do ride in valks, they can fire it on the turn they jump/get out. (they can fire flamers, meltas and plasma when they get out, but I hate infantry flamers, they just get you killed, single BS3 meltas are a recipe for you trying something you mathematically shouldn't be trying, and plasmas cost 3x the points) Also, obviously these weapon choices are the cheapest of the cheap. I can actually see games coming up where you drop off the squads in some ruins that you fly over on your way to contest objectives with the valks, they could set up shop there and fire heavy bolters while scoring something. Or in other missions where your valks get popped from range and no one ever comes over to finish off the squad, these times and those annihilation missions make the 2x10 points HBs feel worth it. The GL's are just cheap enough to include for those same reasons. I'm even considering, (gasp!), mortars as a 'something to do during annihilation missions' weapon. That gets me another 10 points to play with.

Death By Monkeys wrote:I think the Commissar could stay or go, although for orders, voxes are cheaper and more effective than Commissars.

Again we share a brain...

Death By Monkeys wrote:You don't sound sold on the Eradicator yet. Was it that much more effective than a standard LRBT would have been? Would it have been worth the points to upgrade it to a plasma Demolisher/Executioner? Or worth the points to add a second ablative Russ? (I've thought about running pairs of Eradicators.)

The eradicator is absolutely 10 points better than a standard russ. I'd LOVE to run no russes and just focus on artillery. But the russes interact so well WITH artillery. You just never know what kind of terrain a tournament organizer deems is 'appropriate'. Most times, they barely scraped enough terrain together to cover their tourney tables. You need things out there to give 4+ to your artillery and to your CCS chim. 2 eradicators would have been nice, but now you really have to babysit them a bit more. Multi-melta strikes from obliterators and SM attack bikes can spread like wildfire in a squadron, as can a power fist assault that you got overwhelmed with and somehow couldn't contain.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Sounds like the Griffons did the job as promised and frankly, I'm a little surprised to hear that the Colossus did as well as it did.

Yeah, it surprised me with its performance as well. One of my new conundrums is the comparison between 2x griffons and one colossus. Range not considered, models with 4+ or worse saves in area terrain, die the same to two large blasts that let them have 4+'s, or one that doesn't. Math gets funky when the unit you shoot at goes to ground (which units camped on far away objectives do all the time) or when shooting at power armor the Colossus gets better there. And units outside of 48" are untouchable by the griff. I kinda like having the tiered artillery like that. Colossus when you are real far, griffon as you close in and then the russes and rifles once on the front porch. The griffon is insanely reliable, and as I pick up more deployment skills, and after adding the third valk, i don't think I need to threaten the deep ranges as much. In the end I might end up with eradicator, eradicator, griffon battery. or griffon battery, griffon battery, eradicator.

Death By Monkeys wrote:And I've been throwing this concept around a lot lately to see what folks think about it, but would a second CCS with another Fleet Officer have been worth taking?

CCS's are very good. Bring it down is totally awesome, and they have BS4, and they access to max special weapons, and they lose zero effectiveness in a chimera. i wouldn't have minded having a second one, you could split your advisors, issue twice as many orders, and have more meltaguns

As to the second fleet officer I think its a bit of diminishing returns. Since his outflank effect can't double trigger, you are only getting another -1 to reserves rolls. The longer a guys reserves take to get into play the better, but I'm not sure the 30 point price tag really means as much the second time around.


thanks for all the discussion. I'd love to see any 1750's you've been working on.. especially since you and I have seemed to be seeing the same things in the rumors so far.

Shep wrote:Yeah, it makes sense in my head... let me see if i can communicate it. So first off, in annihilation missions, the PCS would still go in the vendetta, but I don't think I'll bother loading the valkyries. In those games I'll deploy the two infantry squads on the table, blobbed. I'd want a couple heavy weapons at that point, autocannons could provide a little more flexibility but i really think I have light vehicles TOTALLY covered at this point. I chose GLs as a special because in the missions where they do ride in valks, they can fire it on the turn they jump/get out. (they can fire flamers, meltas and plasma when they get out, but I hate infantry flamers, they just get you killed, single BS3 meltas are a recipe for you trying something you mathematically shouldn't be trying, and plasmas cost 3x the points) Also, obviously these weapon choices are the cheapest of the cheap. I can actually see games coming up where you drop off the squads in some ruins that you fly over on your way to contest objectives with the valks, they could set up shop there and fire heavy bolters while scoring something. Or in other missions where your valks get popped from range and no one ever comes over to finish off the squad, these times and those annihilation missions make the 2x10 points HBs feel worth it. The GL's are just cheap enough to include for those same reasons. I'm even considering, (gasp!), mortars as a 'something to do during annihilation missions' weapon. That gets me another 10 points to play with.

Okay, I can see where you're going with the HB/GL squads. As far as the use of the GL goes, I think it may be a personal taste thing - I see HB squads as more of a defensive/stand-off unit that is expecting to get charged - consequently, I tend to put flamers in them (against the advice of other wiser IG players admittedly), but I have a hard time bringing myself to arm them with GLs - personal preference, though. As far as your thoughts on mortars go? Man, get off the crack pipe!

Shep wrote:The eradicator is absolutely 10 points better than a standard russ. I'd LOVE to run no russes and just focus on artillery. But the russes interact so well WITH artillery. You just never know what kind of terrain a tournament organizer deems is 'appropriate'. Most times, they barely scraped enough terrain together to cover their tourney tables. You need things out there to give 4+ to your artillery and to your CCS chim. 2 eradicators would have been nice, but now you really have to babysit them a bit more. Multi-melta strikes from obliterators and SM attack bikes can spread like wildfire in a squadron, as can a power fist assault that you got overwhelmed with and somehow couldn't contain.

See, the whole babysitting aspect is part of my reasoning behind the ablative naked Russ, though. Camo nets for them are 40 points, but it can make a big difference. Also, my core lists are including Inq+Mystics to punish Oblit spam. They may still deploy, but they'll have to shoot at me with lascannons instead of meltas. SM attack bikes and land speeders are also problematic, but AC/Plas can handle them fairly well. Assaults are still a problem, but I'm not convinced yet that squadroned Russes aren't very viable.

Shep wrote:Yeah, it surprised me with its performance as well. One of my new conundrums is the comparison between 2x griffons and one colossus. Range not considered, models with 4+ or worse saves in area terrain, die the same to two large blasts that let them have 4+'s, or one that doesn't. Math gets funky when the unit you shoot at goes to ground (which units camped on far away objectives do all the time) or when shooting at power armor the Colossus gets better there. And units outside of 48" are untouchable by the griff. I kinda like having the tiered artillery like that. Colossus when you are real far, griffon as you close in and then the russes and rifles once on the front porch. The griffon is insanely reliable, and as I pick up more deployment skills, and after adding the third valk, i don't think I need to threaten the deep ranges as much. In the end I might end up with eradicator, eradicator, griffon battery. or griffon battery, griffon battery, eradicator.

Hm. I have really mixed feelings about "tiered" artillery. I think that's why I like the standard LRBT so much - it's good from 0" to 72" - but then, that may be something that I have to revise my perspective on. It's sort of like the Manticore - I don't like the thought of not being able to fire missiles after turn 4. I don't like the thought of not being able to fire immediately in front of a model. Oh well, I suppose that's what heavy bolters and heavy flamers are for, right?

Shep wrote:thanks for all the discussion. I'd love to see any 1750's you've been working on.. especially since you and I have seemed to be seeing the same things in the rumors so far.

I've been scratched out a few on paper, but I continually change them. Right now, I'm looking at something that's based in the core list Sourclams has presented as well as a list Stelek's posted on his blog. Once I get it more fleshed out, I'll post it up.

I've come up with a few lists that try to capitalize on one aspect of the new codex or another. I've posted them in a few places but haven't got a lot of feedback one way or the other.

Here's the more well-rounded list:

CCS (200)
3x melta, vox
astropath, fleet officer
chimera

PCS (120)
3x melta, vox
chimera

4x infantry squad (310)
4x autocannons, GLs
2 voxes

PCS (120)
3x melta, vox
chimera

4x infantry squad (310)
4x autocannons, GLs
2 voxes

Inquisitor w/ 2 mystics (45)

psychic choir in chimera (150)

Leman Russ Exec w/ plasma sponsons (270)
camo net
Leman Russ Exterminator w/ Hvy Bolter sponsons (190)
camo net

Griffon (75)

Griffon (75)

Plasma russ hits those power armored units that just need to die right now, screened by infantry to keep it safe from terminators jumping out of raiders and the like. Exterminator is there as backup to take and weapon destroyed results that get through the 3+ cover saves, and I think the exterminator weapons are a good combo with Exec - saturation of fire against infantry and decent against light vehicles.

Above tank squadron works well with Inq to prevent deep strikers in my lines. What's that? Vanguard marines dropping in? Have 5 plasma templates and 13 heavy weapon shots if you please.

Lots of infantry that can be globbed or spread out depending on the mission.

3x melta-cars of pain to keep tank supremacy. I figure its the most efficient loadout of the command squads that you have to take anyways.

Griffons try to pin whatever the psychics manage to scare with their -Ld attack

Problems I see with it:

1.not enough templates
2.too short ranged even with those autocannons
3.no plasma - 15 points for one gun is a lot imo
4.too much infantry - seems redundant. I'd rather take more templates on valks or artillery, but if I have to buy a PCS and second platoon of infantry, I feel I need to take more than 2 squads to make it worthwhile - is this erronious logic?

I need to know if I have to take two platoons as troop choices to fill force org or not - it looks like these's only one in your list. Or are PCS now completely optional in a platoon? How are you getting by with only one?

Your list looks pretty good. I'd say its close enough to throw down with it and make adjustments after the game.

veterans are a troop choice, just 10 of them, self contained. So in my list i had one infantry platoon and one veteran unit as my compulsory troops.

you are right on the command squads being effective as melta toters.

I think you might have enough chimeras to not need valkyries, and you are a bit light on large blast, but I think you'll be the most qualified to make that determination, after you've gotten in some games with it.

Let me know how it goes

Great report

People tell me i'm crazy, but I am totally going to run Mortar/GL infantry squads. They're cheap, great for moving/screening/taking objectives and can get lucky with a pin check now and then. I want to take a cheap infantry platoon, and I think this setup will work.

Autocannon/Plasmagun seems like the optimal firebase platoon setup Glad to hear BiD! was working well.

Have you tried a Psyker squad yet? I think a 6 psyker squad (80pts) should be squeezed in without too much trouble. Would help your arty in pinning.

Consider taking a 2nd CCS? Would make a great tank hunter unit with 4 meltas and being able to order itself.

You going to consider AC HWS? For 75pts it seems like a good choice for helping your firebase. Costs the same as a AC/PG infantry squad but can kick out 6x S7 shots.


Thanks for the report, hope to see more

too bad that this battle report didnt have any pic's still thanks for the report

BoxANT wrote:Great report

Thanks.

BoxANT wrote:People tell me i'm crazy, but I am totally going to run Mortar/GL infantry squads. They're cheap, great for moving/screening/taking objectives and can get lucky with a pin check now and then. I want to take a cheap infantry platoon, and I think this setup will work.

Yeah, if you're gonna be moving, then losing the 5 point mortar shot just seems to hurt less. the funny thing about the way the guard dex is falling together for me. Once I went up to 3 valks in my lists, I decided the easiest way to get leadership 8 bodies that are scoring units into them was to just buy a platoon. All these lights went off in my head, and now I've decided that the platoon that is going into my valks is going to be comprised of forge world elysians. Not only do I see it as an effective way to load up valks, its just way too cool to have them off table ready to outflank, and just when my vostroyans need help the most, my astropath mutters 'look to the skies' and the platoon of elysians in their transports show up. And the elysian mortar team is about the coolest thing around

BoxANT wrote:Autocannon/Plasmagun seems like the optimal firebase platoon setup Glad to hear BiD! was working well.

AC/plas line squads are makign a really good case for themselves. I was convinced I was going to go all mechanized with veterans. But BiD on the lines really adds output for minimal cost.

BoxANT wrote:Have you tried a Psyker squad yet? I think a 6 psyker squad (80pts) should be squeezed in without too much trouble. Would help your arty in pinning.

Haven't tried them yet, so i'll save any theory based critique on them. I'm still VERY interested in them, but I haven't found I've needed them in the games I've played so far.

BoxANT wrote:Consider taking a 2nd CCS? Would make a great tank hunter unit with 4 meltas and being able to order itself.

This might sound silly, but CCSs might be the most powerful units in the dex. I really wish PCS had the same orders but just one at a time with shorter range, then I'd feel better about taking them to bolster my lines. As it stands, I can't seem to make it fit yet, but I'd LOVE a second CCS, as long as I had 2 line squads per CCS to issue BiD to in the early turns, in later turns BiD on itself would be awesome, along with maybe a unit with 4 plasma guns and FoMT.

BoxANT wrote:You going to consider AC HWS? For 75pts it seems like a good choice for helping your firebase. Costs the same as a AC/PG infantry squad but can kick out 6x S7 shots.

You know, I've been burned on the Ld7 a few times already on the SWS. I think you need a very specific list to use SWS and HWS in. That list needs a commissar lord, or (more likely) a baneblade with commisariat crew upgrade. Once I've gotten more wins together, and i feel like letting off the gas pedal a little bit, I'm going to experiment with a RUDE amount of infantry. I might even see if I can get a 2k list put together that is functional without a single vehicle. I might need Al'Rahem to make it work, which I don't really want to do. But just for fun ideas, you can easily fit 15 HWS in a 2k army. That'd be... 54 heavy weapons. I used to run with 31 heavy weapons in my old infantry spam list, and i didn't have orders

Looks like I drifted off a bit there. heh. I don't like their leadership but for the same points I get 6 strength 7 instead of 3-4 strength 7. I pass orders less frequently but outperform against vehicles even while not under orders. Its certainly worth a try. Obviously they lack survivability, the ap2 and the lasguns as well, but I'll give it a shot. once you've got your 10 man infantry screens covered, maybe the extra ones can be HWS. If they disappear too fast, I'll switch back. haha

BoxANT wrote:Thanks for the report, hope to see more

And thanks for replying. More reports incoming. I'm looking to face nob bikers and lash in the next week or two. I'm gonna get a game against demons in as well, that should cover a lot more bases.

Great report Shep, and I definitely appreciate your thoughts... cuts down on my own trial and error.

Couple of questions:
* Any thoughts on AC/GL squads? I am wondering if the S6 shot is worth the 10 point savings...
* You briefly mentioned al'Rahem, and seem to be averse to him. I'm curious why? One of things I want to try is al'Rahem (or actually in my case Lt. Al Rayham, since I play Cadians) in a Chimera with supporting Armored Fist squads. The entire platoon outflanks, comes in altogether on one roll, is enhanced by an astropath, and al'Rahem can give 2 orders, including BiD. Seems like a very strong maneuver element.
* Any thoughts on Vets vs. PCS for melta-duty? The BS4 is great, but the ablative wounds seem like they would be stronger unit to put in a Valk to claim objectives.

Cheers

Here's another list I was toying with. This one is similar to present list, as it is built around more heavy weapons and vehicles than infantry squads. Its more fragile, but deals out more dakka.

The logic is that if I buy 100 guardsmen in platoons, 70 of them are just going to sit around all game with their lasguns and do very little. That's potentially 350 points that could be shooting during those first 2 crucial turns before enemy assault specialists make it into combat.

CCS (200)
fleet officer, astropath
3x melta, vox
chimera

PCS (120)
3x melta, vox
chimera

Platoon (185)
3x infantry squad
3x autocannon
1 vox

Vets (170)
3x melta, vox
chimera

Psychic choir (140)
chimera

Inquisitor w/ 2 mystics (45)

Russ Exec (270)
plasma sponsons
camo
+
Russ Exterminator (190)
hvy bolter sponsons
camo

Griffon x2 (150)

Colossus (150)

Vendetta (130)

Infantry count down to 40 guys in 4 scoring units, one of which is a melta squad that might have to be sacrificed to tank out a land raider or something. Thats 60 guys less than the last list, but now I've got a vendetta and a colossus to help against vehicles and infantry respectively.

Too fragile? Do you think 200 points spent on psychic choir and inquisitor would be better elsewhere?

ubermosher wrote:* Any thoughts on AC/GL squads? I am wondering if the S6 shot is worth the 10 point savings...

I think I'd want to keep spending the 10 points. Strength 7 is a big deal when my squads are focusing primarily on MCs and light vehicles. I don't think your thought process is outlandish or anything. Your savings can start adding up really quick.

ubermosher wrote:* You briefly mentioned al'Rahem, and seem to be averse to him. I'm curious why? One of things I want to try is al'Rahem (or actually in my case Lt. Al Rayham, since I play Cadians) in a Chimera with supporting Armored Fist squads. The entire platoon outflanks, comes in altogether on one roll, is enhanced by an astropath, and al'Rahem can give 2 orders, including BiD. Seems like a very strong maneuver element.

That was totally misleading. I should have clarified that I didn't want to add Al'Rahem for reasons completely unrelated to game mechanics. Basically, I don't want to add tallarns to my snow based force, and I haven't been able to conjure up a decent Vostroyan counts-as. For you might I suggest Col. 'Snake' Strasinski of the Cadian mechanized division

ubermosher wrote:* Any thoughts on Vets vs. PCS for melta-duty? The BS4 is great, but the ablative wounds seem like they would be stronger unit to put in a Valk to claim objectives.

Sure, 10 vets with 3 meltas is 100 points and generates 2 melta hits per round of shooting. PCS with 4x meltas is 70 points and generates 2 melta hits per round of shooting. Both of them in a valk, are as survivable as the valk, they both seem to get ripped up PDQ once they fall out.

vets get good when you plump for a heavy weapon like an AC, fire it out of a chimera until they get close, then transform into a melta-car. If you aren't planning on doing that, i feel like the PCS is a better choice. They can issue themselves an 'incoming' which probably makes them more survivable than vets in the far reaches of the table.

If I was going all mechanized I'd probably run all vets instead of platoons, just because while the command squads are a real steal, the line squads aren't as efficient while not receiving orders.

Heya Shep - so as not to hijack your thread, I've posted up my first test list here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/236767.page#669896. I don't think it's the best in the world, but we'll see how it does.

I'm sorry I just started collecting IG and you mention "bring it down" is god like, What dose it do?

There are two really good ig command orders:

Bring it down allows one squads weapons to be twin linked while shooting at a vehicle or moonstrous creature.

Fire on my target, is the other one and it forces your opponent to re-roll cover saves.

At least I hope I got the names right.


I can't help but think that you are going to struggle against mechanized lists with what you currently have. At least that's what I would have said about the original list .

I think the addition of the additional melta squad and the vendetta should help to even things out better against mech lists. Originally I was thinking that a mech guard would give you serious problems but then I remembered about barrage weapons always hitting side armor. That actually makes griffons and the colossus very good at popping chimera's, and gives them decent odds on devilfish. Mechdar with their 12 sides still might give you a run for it, but what can you do .

Interested to see how this new iteration works out for you.

Do you really think you need the 4 ac/plasma squads tho? I keep thinking there must be something else that you could replace one of the squads with. You were saying that BID is what was making the squads work and you can't bid all 4 of them. Maybe it's time to drop one of them and counts as creed for your list so you can issue out more orders.

Great report, Shep. Nice to see KevinNash's orks get some comeupance. This weekend I will bring some daemons over and we will see how the minions of the blood god fare.

I will remember my camera this time, we can do pics, have you seen panic and more's batreps? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/236227.page

Excellent report, thanks for the write up.

That is good news, and pretty much what I expected. IG are going to be the new big kid on the block. There are some fast powerful assault type lists that I think will still be tough, but not like it was.

Add some pics here and you will have a golden bat rep!

Hmm... certainly interesting. I often say 'Anecdotal evidence isn't', but this is a well documented case of it and the results are actually quite positive.

I knew from the moment I read their rules that the Astropath and the Fleet Officer would be mandatory. And I still can't see the point of the Ordnance Master thingy guy.

Quick question about your new 'wimpy' platoon:

Why not Meltaguns? If they're outflanking in Valks and Vendy's, why not give 'em some bite?

Thanks for the report Shep, your batreps and analysis are always a treat.

So looking at this list and your marine list from awhile back -- do you think your IG have the tools to deal with it effectively?

I will either be facing an artillery heavy IG force or watching someone else take it on. Dunno if it will be worth a batrep but I'll throw up the anecdotal evidence anyways. Wish I had some IG of my own to put through the paces because this codex has got me pretty excited.

Got a game in today against Necrons with 1850 of new guard.

When with a Creed/Kell Cadian Gunline in a KP mission.

We only got 4 turns in, but at the end it was Guard 2, Necrons 1. I was amazed by how hard it was for me to give up KP


Since I went with C&K, I decided to load up on HWS (since they take orders on Ld10). The whole game I only failed 1 order. However, I often found myself with orders to burn, due to the fact that Necrons have very few vehicles or MC.

I had a Colossus, but the fact that Necrons still got their WBB roll was annoying.


30 guardsmen + FRFSRF. I am not used to rolling that many dice all at once I feel like an Ork player!


I find that a HW team in your CCS is not wise, I'm glad that I didn't take one. I found myself moving Creed into LOS during my turn so that I could give BiD! and FomT during the shooting phase, then running Creed's unit back out of LOS so that he could not be shot. I learned that the hard way, when I moved Creed into LOS and was met by a volly of Destroyer fire Lucky only a couple guardsmen got killed.

I used a LRBT w/ 3HB and a LRD w/ lasplas. Apart from when they were stunned, they fired everything all game. IG is actually really strong in KP missions now We can form a gunline, mob up our infantry, and unleash hell! My Necron buddy was frustrated just how hard it was to get KPs out of my army I had 14 KPs in my army, but he could only dig 1 out of me in 4 turns

Creed's 24" bubble is HUGE. You can drive PCS w/ meltas out in front of your firebase and still give them BiD!. In addition, I had HWS spread out along my firebase and they were all getting orders every turn.
However, Creed/Kell basically sacrifices a LRBT :( Very expensive and I'm thinking that a second CCS might be a more economical choice.

I didn't run a Psyker squad, but if I would of, the game would of been a slaughter. I made him roll many 25% checks, and if he would of been testing at Ld4 with one or two squads a turn, the game would of been a joke. I'm almost worried to take Psyker squads....

All in all, it was a fun game. It was not an optimal list, more like a current codex list built with the new codex I am looking forward to when I redo my army completely with the new codex.

Assuming you don't bring Kell and save your points, is Creed on his own good enough to become an Eldrad-Pattern Mandatory Non-Special Special Character?

I would like to see what happens with Valks. and Vends. once Orks wise up and start taking Lootas again.

Warmaster wrote:I can't help but think that you are going to struggle against mechanized lists with what you currently have. At least that's what I would have said about the original list .

I think the addition of the additional melta squad and the vendetta should help to even things out better against mech lists. Originally I was thinking that a mech guard would give you serious problems but then I remembered about barrage weapons always hitting side armor. That actually makes griffons and the colossus very good at popping chimera's, and gives them decent odds on devilfish. Mechdar with their 12 sides still might give you a run for it, but what can you do .

Interested to see how this new iteration works out for you.

Do you really think you need the 4 ac/plasma squads tho? I keep thinking there must be something else that you could replace one of the squads with. You were saying that BID is what was making the squads work and you can't bid all 4 of them. Maybe it's time to drop one of them and counts as creed for your list so you can issue out more orders.

The first list didn't have a problem with mechanized. I kill 7 out of 9 killa kans while they were under a KFF. So that's equivalent to 14 armor 11 kills in 4 turns. The new list has more ac/plasma and more melta, so I'm absolutely comfortable with anti-armor. Anti-fast assault? Not so sure

The vendettas could actually be the bane of the wave serpents existence. Rear armor shots would be resolved at strength 9 instead of 8.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Hmm... certainly interesting. I often say 'Anecdotal evidence isn't', but this is a well documented case of it and the results are actually quite positive.

I knew from the moment I read their rules that the Astropath and the Fleet Officer would be mandatory. And I still can't see the point of the Ordnance Master thingy guy.

Quick question about your new 'wimpy' platoon:

Why not Meltaguns? If they're outflanking in Valks and Vendy's, why not give 'em some bite?

Yeah MoO seems perfectly points appropriate, I just don't think we can afford to put another 30 points into an already expensive unit. It isn't really a precision tool either. Terrible against elite armies.

I'm not running meltaguns on those guys because I can't trust myself with a single BS3 melta. It'd be great if I hit the jackpot with it, but most of the time, maneuvering for that shot is going to get you killed. The only time I'd willfully risk a valkyrie borne troop is in an annihilation misssion, and I'm planning to blob them 20 and start on the table with them in those missions.

winterman wrote:Thanks for the report Shep, your batreps and analysis are always a treat.

So looking at this list and your marine list from awhile back -- do you think your IG have the tools to deal with it effectively?

Thanks. Umm, it really depends on the mission, but I'm inclined to think a well piloted thammer army would be difficult for my IG list, (and many others) to stop. I can't really get the land raiders until they are close, and depending on armor saves, I might not have enough game turns to clear out the termies and score home objectives. If the marine player wasn't conservative enough with his tactical marines, and i could get colossus on them early, I might be able to get rid of a lot of his scoring units. I'd assume the thammers were b-lining the colossus and that the tac squad rhinos would hide from autocannons as long as possible.

Mahu wrote:I would like to see what happens with Valks. and Vends. once Orks wise up and start taking Lootas again.

Well, I had 2 valks, and he had 30 lootas. They didn't help him. Griffon's colossi and eradicators went into the lootas on turns one and two, when the valks arrived they were prepared to also fire into the lootas, but they didn't need to. This might be the first army I can think of in 40k that actually can take out lootas in 2 turns without assaulting them. They take double the tests thanks to ordnance barrage pinning and then morale, and the valks will never start on the table versus lootas, so they'll never get a fresh look at them. What orks need to keep taking are deffkoptas wit rokkits and buzzsaws... I thought that unit was laughable for the longest time. But now that mechanized guard is therre to torture orks, they are a godsend.





thanks everyone for reading and replying

I didn't run a Psyker squad, but if I would of, the game would of been a slaughter. I made him roll many 25% checks, and if he would of been testing at Ld4 with one or two squads a turn, the game would of been a joke. I'm almost worried to take Psyker squads....

Agreed, as soon as I saw the rules for that squad my jaw just dropped.

Against non fearless armies this will be worse than fear of the darkness was with drop pod marines. If they can't stop your psychic phase and they are not fearless, good by. Team them with a calixus assasin, snipers, or ordanance weapons and you basically have an auto pin, or just force them to run away from 25% tests. Then escort them off the board with a Valk, or some other fast vehicle.

Plus, you can put them in a chimera to make them highly resliant. Their ability will work 83% of the time, so it is very reliable.

And if the army isn't fearless, the blast is still powerful.

The only time you are boned is against eldar with runes of warding or a Ld10 hood, in which case you will rarely get a power off. But still, for the potential, it is insane.

IG will just thrash Orks now. Even nob bikers will get pwnd. You lower their LD due to that power and then kill a few of them with templates and watch them ride right off the board.

This is not as bad as Lash, but I am thinking that it will take second place for most powerful psychic power in the game.

Hmm I keep seeing people Through Griffons in there lists I personally haven't tested them and probly will try but I am sticking to Basilisks at the moment. Though that new min range is pretty gay still strength 9 ap 3 isnt bad. I'll probly switch one to a collosus. My 2000 list is like this so far

HQ-

Command Squad
Medic
Carapace
Commisar
(will be adding Astropath and possible fleet commader)

Lord Commisar (idk why but he just seems like the bigest badass and that lead 10 is fun)

Troops-

2 Platoons 5 sqauds in all all with random special weapons only there for point over whelming and distraction.

3 Squads of Vets each in a chimera
2x with 3 meltas
and the 3rd in a chimera that has the 2 HF and the squad with 2 flamers and a HF.

(Im considering switching to a plasma one)

3x Armored Sentinals with plasma Cannons. This squad is one I REALLY want to test its expensive and I'm worried but I wanna test it.

Elite- 10 Ratlings (THis squad is one every army should have at least one of It is sooooo cheap for what it can do it makes snipers in every army look like a jok just for how cheap it is 100 points for 10)

Heavy- LR Eradicator (I think thats the name) with the 3 plasma cannon shots and 2 plasma cannon side sponsons

ATM 2 Basilisks but I am really looking to change them the reason they havent is because of lack of the models but not wanting to wait I believe forge world can be of some help. I willl have to takje a good look at what the other ones rly offer though the collossus is extremely tempting at the moment

A good and informative report Shep.
I can imagine better how works an IG loaded with pretty good number of artillery tanks.



Time for me to speed up tank building / painting @ home factory !