Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It only looks like I have an 'obsession' with them because you constantly state that their removal would destroy the faction, and I cannot find a reason why.

I post:

Sisters design is great as-is.

You read:

Removing their boobs would destroy the faction.

the fact that you cannot understand a simple statement without unfairly mischaracterizing it as being about your boob obsession speaks for itself.

No, I post why I think we should get rid of the breast bits on their chestplates (or at least tone them down considerably) and you say that I obviously don't like anything about the SoB faction.

It makes no sense at all.

 Manchu wrote:
I post:

Sisters design is great as-is.

You read:

Removing their boobs would destroy the faction.

the fact that you cannot understand a simple statement without unfairly mischaracterizing it as being about your boob obsession speaks for itself.

Are you taking the piss Manchu?

You readily admitted ITT that you are ambivalent about SoB as a faction. So you approach this overall concept, which you are ambivalent about, and all you care about are the titties. You're here posting ITT because of boobs, not because of Sisters. You want their boobs gone. Fine. Would you also like purple orks? How about some fat Eldar? i mean, please tell me what you don't like about all the factions that don't matter to you. SoB fans are just dying to hear, for the gazillionth time, all about the boobs because lord knows the SoB are stupid and need to be fixed, starting with their titties, and who is the best person to do it? That's right, someone who is willing to say outright that they don't really care - other than about the tits, the tits are a major issue, I get it.

 Manchu wrote:
You readily admitted ITT that you are ambivalent about SoB as a faction. So you approach this overall concept, which you are ambivalent about, and all you care about are the titties. You're here posting ITT because of boobs, not because of Sisters. You want their boobs gone. Fine. Would you also like purple orks? How about some fat Eldar? i mean, please tell me what you don't like about all the factions that don't matter to you. SoB fans are just dying to hear, for the gazillionth time, all about the boobs because lord knows the SoB are stupid and need to be fixed, starting with their titties, and who is the best person to do it? That's right, someone who is willing to say outright that they don't really care - other than about the tits, the tits are a major issue, I get it.

And yet here you are conflating the Sister's identity as a faction with their tits.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Are you taking the piss Manchu?

After a fashion. I mean, It's super frustrating when people who don't care about your faction think of it as a problem that they need to come along and solve. And even worse when they boil down your favorite faction to an argument about titties and then claim actually you are the one who is obsessed with boobs.

 Manchu wrote:
You readily admitted ITT that you are ambivalent about SoB as a faction.

In their current state. I would not spend this long arguing with you if I did not care. My ambivalence is subject to change depending on what ends up happening with this faction. I'd place my bets on a squatting at this point, but I'd much rather see an overhaul - think Dark Eldar.

So you approach this overall concept, which you are ambivalent about, and all you care about are the titties.

Not really, no. It is the most obvious problem, of course, and pretty glaring, but the armour is also a bit thin. There are also a few more issues but most of those can be chalked down to sculpt age rather than deliberate design, such as pose limitations and what have you.

You're here posting ITT because of boobs, not because of Sisters.

Again, I post here to begin with because I'd like to see a reason for my ambivalence to change.

Would you also like purple orks? How about some fat Eldar?

I am not sure if either of those are even biologically possible in 40k. I strongly suspect, however, that forging a reasonably flat chestplate is.

i mean, please tell me what you don't like about all the factions that don't matter to you.

Hopefully, they one day will. I really really hope they will.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Pouncey wrote:

They're willing to tolerate the loophole. That loophole is entirely about their physical sex. Thus, you should ensure that when anyone looks at the army you're getting through the fact they're women and not men, they look like women and not men. Because if they're finding it hard to tell that your troops are in fact female, they might start thinking you're also recruiting men, which you're not allowed to do. And then they would organize inspections of your entire army to ensure, for a fact, they are women. Those inspections annoy your troops and prevent them from doing their duties while they're happening.

So where are those constant searches through SoB ranks to ensure that men are not hiding inside that armour and the boobplate is just fake? SoB do frequently use helmets after all.

The answer is that nobody does it because the Ecclessiarchy is not really under any meaningful scrutiny, aside from the Inquisition (who have better things to do than inspect the sex of your soldiers). It is a very rich organisation with the Imperium's omnipresent faith in its control.

You all ascribe some headcanon to SoB that they wear extremely exaggerated armour because it keeps everyone around them too dumb to realise that the Ecclessiarchy completely ignored the spirit of the laws under which it was placed. I do not consider that headcanon part of what makes SoB what they are.

Do you have any actual lore quotes whatsoever speaking of how their armour is designed to be as feminine as possible to avoid retribution due to their violation of the spirit of the Decree Passive?

You literally could've kept reading where I describe all the things you hate about their aesthetic and why those things mean those searches do not happen. You know, the part of my post you cropped out.

And actually Sisters frequently DON'T use their helmets. The vast majority of my Sisters of Battle infantry are helmetless and I didn't even make that happen on purpose.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
And yet here you are conflating the Sister's identity as a faction with their tits.

Yeah I can totally see how you would come to that conclusion, if you had ignored everything I have posted. So one more ti ]me: there is nothing wrong with the current design of Sisters, and that includes but is not limited to their boobs, and there is no good reason to say, okay, I just want to change their boobs, except that soemone is focused in on boobs for reasons only they will ever truly know, I suppose.

 Pouncey wrote:


You literally could've kept reading where I describe all the things you hate about their aesthetic and why those things mean those searches do not happen. You know, the part of my post you cropped out.

That was fanfiction and speculation, though. I do not consider that evidence.

And actually Sisters frequently DON'T use their helmets. The vast majority of my Sisters of Battle infantry are helmetless and I didn't even make that happen on purpose.

About a third of them are helmeted, if the pictures on the GW website is any indication? That is a considerable percentage.

(I would also really like to stress that the boobplate is not the only issue; it is just the most glaring one. See my previous post for elaboration.)

Normally I'd be arguing for more realistic designs but the SoBs (along with Eldar) are the only ones who actually have a legitimate reason to keep it.

Like many people have stated, the whole faction is suppose to emphasis them being female to get around that whole "no men under arms" thing. The boob-plate, corsets, hourglass figure and high heeled boots (at least in art, I don't think I remember actual models having these, at least not official ones) are not practical in the slightest but further this idea. Practicality was never their hat, that belongs to the Imperial Guard.

One of the reason that removing it would be weird would be where does it end? Get rid of the corset armor, the heels, etc, and we have something that's a cross between the scion armor and space marine power armor. That's functional, for sure, but...what sets it apart from those factions? I know they still have their faith, their fluff and whatnot, but from a casual glance, how do I tell that these are the warrior-nuns of the 41st millenium and not generic spartan clone #203? An important part about design, especially for one so iconic, is that you show it, not tell it through a 20 page document.

Also I'm not gonna dance around the subject. Yes they're hyper-sexualized. That's a given. Then again this is 40k, where we have a literal god of lust and perverse sex, a whole race of aliens who's 50% naughty tentacles, 35% muscle spasm shooting, and 15% stabby, a monstrous Orc that is rumored to be named after their home country's own prime minister, and a whole slew of other horrible implications. The Ecclesiarchy itself also doesn't paint a good picture of religion if you take it at face value. Unfortunate Implications is sort of the price of entry for 40k.

Also the boob plate could theoretically still be good; nothing says those molded on pieces are actually compartments; for all we know they might as well be solid blocks of ceramite. Calgar has half a chapel molded onto his collar and every grey knight has that book through the sword on their chest and arcane writing on their shoulder pads (which definitely compromises it as it's basically creating man-made microfractures) so it wouldn't be a stretch that the "boobs" are just more decoration rather than slots for the women to put it in.

You know what? I kinda want to play Space Marines. But I hate their ridiculously bulky shoulder armor. And it's actually ridiculously big, so let's cut it down to a more reasonable size. Hey. Space Marine players, you can't complain I wanted to change your miniatures, I improved them.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
You readily admitted ITT that you are ambivalent about SoB as a faction.

In their current state.

Right, I get it - you don't dislike them, you just think they need to be 80% different.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Like many people have stated, the whole faction is suppose to emphasis them being female to get around that whole "no men under arms" thing.

As was pointed out, though, there isn't really anything more than fanfiction that says this.

so it wouldn't be a stretch that the "boobs" are just more decoration rather than slots for the women to put it in.

Consider just how tight that armour is, though. I mean, you can flatten your breasts fairly effectively through binding them, but that will not work forever, especially not on armour that is so tight.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


You literally could've kept reading where I describe all the things you hate about their aesthetic and why those things mean those searches do not happen. You know, the part of my post you cropped out.

That was fanfiction and speculation, though. I do not consider that evidence.

And actually Sisters frequently DON'T use their helmets. The vast majority of my Sisters of Battle infantry are helmetless and I didn't even make that happen on purpose.

About a third of them are helmeted, if the pictures on the GW website is any indication? That is a considerable percentage.

(I would also really like to stress that the boobplate is not the only issue; it is just the most glaring one. See my previous post for elaboration.)

Ohh, so you want an actual lore justification and not just a reasonable argument.

Can I get your actual, solid lore quote about how each and every one of the things you want to change is something the Sisters of Battle would be improved by, instead of your own speculation on what would be better? I want quotes from the ACTUAL lore.

 Pouncey wrote:
You know what? I kinda want to play Space Marines. But I hate their ridiculously bulky shoulder armor. And it's actually ridiculously big, so let's cut it down to a more reasonable size. Hey. Space Marine players, you can't complain I wanted to change your miniatures, I improved them.

If SM players resent the idea, it's because they are obsessed with shoulder armor ... ?

 Manchu wrote:
Right, I get it - you don't dislike them, you just think they need to be 80% different.

That was the Space Wolves. And that was just the wolfiness part; there is more to them than that, such as runes and other viking themes.

For SoB, it is harder for me to estimate a percentage, because the boobplate is not nearly as much a part of their identity for me as it is for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
You know what? I kinda want to play Space Marines. But I hate their ridiculously bulky shoulder armor. And it's actually ridiculously big, so let's cut it down to a more reasonable size. Hey. Space Marine players, you can't complain I wanted to change your miniatures, I improved them.

If SM players resent the idea, it's because they are obsessed with shoulder armor ... ?

Scouts. Or you can just pick another armour mark. They have quite different elements; I have seen artwork with SM that have pauldrons hardly any bigger than the SoB ones. A Black Templar IIRC? I can find you the picture tomorrow. Now I need sleep. Nightynight!

 Manchu wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
And yet here you are conflating the Sister's identity as a faction with their tits.

Yeah I can totally see how you would come to that conclusion, if you had ignored everything I have posted. So one more ti ]me: there is nothing wrong with the current design of Sisters, and that includes but is not limited to their boobs, and there is no good reason to say, okay, I just want to change their boobs, except that soemone is focused in on boobs for reasons only they will ever truly know, I suppose.

Well, you did imply in that post that removing their boob plate would be like removing some core aesthetics of other factions hence my post. While I think the fleur-de-lis and gothic style armor are more relevant to their identith I can somewhat understand where you are coming from.

Disclaimer: I am not opposed to the current design of SOB. 40k designs in general are garish, nonsensical and overblown. To me boob plate is dumb but so is adorning every surface with skulls.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pouncey wrote:
You know what? I kinda want to play Space Marines. But I hate their ridiculously bulky shoulder armor. And it's actually ridiculously big, so let's cut it down to a more reasonable size. Hey. Space Marine players, you can't complain I wanted to change your miniatures, I improved them.

Meh, at least they aren't technicolor ponies.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Scouts. Or you can just pick another armour mark. They have quite different elements; I have seen artwork with SM that have pauldrons hardly any bigger than the SoB ones. A Black Templar IIRC? I can find you the picture tomorrow. Now I need sleep. Nightynight!

Aww, no, don't go to bed! I was about to tear into your argument about how you won't accept decent reasoning and want an actual lore quote when everything you presented for your argument was your own reasoning with no lore quotes whatsoever.

I was gonna call you a hypocrite too!

 Ashiraya wrote:
the boobplate is not nearly as much a part of their identity for me as it is for you

Could you please stop sublimating your obsession with SoB boobs onto me? I mean, for me they are only one part of an overall design that I think is great and don't want to change because I like SoB. Whereas for you, they are so offensive as to ruin the design and MUST be eliminated, and on that condition, maybe MAYBE you might like them maybe, but you'll have to see what else needs fixing of course.

 Manchu wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
the boobplate is not nearly as much a part of their identity for me as it is for you

Could you please stop sublimating you obsession with SoB boobs on me? I mean, for me they are only one part of an overall design that Inthink is great. Whereas for you, they are so offensive as ruin the design and MUST be eliminated.

I didn't realize I'd stopped paying attention to this thread for long enough that it'd go this far afield...

 Manchu wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
the boobplate is not nearly as much a part of their identity for me as it is for you

Could you please stop sublimating you obsession with SoB boobs on me? I mean, for me they are only one part of an overall design that Inthink is great. Whereas for you, they are so offensive as ruin the design and MUST be eliminated.

Personally, I think they should keep their boobplate and every part of their current aesthetic in the plastics. Because their aesthetic is entirely unique and thematic, and their models actually still look good despite being designed 20 years ago so they don't need an aesthetic update at all.

I helped a girl with D-cups into a sports bra once. You'd be surprised at how far they can bind. And according to her it's not all that uncomfortable either if done properly (you don't pancake them Wile-E-Coyote style). In addition, the models are 2nd edition vintage. Take a look at Space Marine models of the time, they grip the bolters so hard that the handles must be like a string of silly putty for their hand sculpts to work. Hell look at Abaddon's Chewable Vitamin Pill sword and try to make sense of that. It was a limitation of the time. Everything up to late 4th edition had that problem, it's just more pronounced on the sisters because they haven't had a new model since then.

Also the Decree Passive is not fan fiction. Page 5 of the Witch Hunter Codex 3rd Edition has it word for word. It even states how the High Lords of Terra were uncomfortable with this decision. It's mentioned again in the 6th edition codex under "The Reformation of the Ecclesiarchy" and this time even points out the loophole abuse. I don't even play them and I know this.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
it'd go this far afield...

You must be new. Threads about SoB always bring out people who don't much care about the faction to tell their actual fans everything that is wrong with them and how to fix it - and they always want to talk about boobies.

I don't care much about the faction but I want to keep them the way they are :C

Well except for their rules. They need to stop being SM clones and have better Faith system.

 Pouncey wrote:
Personally, I think they should keep their boobplate and every part of their current aesthetic in the plastics. Because their aesthetic is entirely unique and thematic, and their models actually still look good despite being designed 20 years ago so they don't need an aesthetic update at all.

Needless to say, I agree. It's heartening that in the few moments when GW has deigned to portray SoB, The Powers That Be also seem to agree. The SoB design is not something I think GW would have been able to come up with today; it's too novel for what I have seen coming out over the last decade (despite the company getting better and better technically). I honestly don't trust GW to do any better than they already have - and I mean that in the sense that the SoB design is already a very, very high bar, not only in the sense that GW is more conservative nowadays.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Not gonna read the thread because I'm assume it's about why don't we have plastic sisters.

Short answer: there is no rea demand for it, so they are not going to make them.

Long answer: GW is a business, if you want them to change you need to show it with your wallet not with crying. You can kick scream and yell from the mountain tops about how you want plastic sisters, but until there is a probable profit to be had, it's not going to happen. Iirc there was a game day were they even showed off plastic sisters they had made. The thing is, they won't start making up until their current stock, the metal ones, are moved out. And even then, they need to be bought out quickly to show there is a demand. When everyone keeps asking for it, but GW still is noticing the sister products they have, why make more? If you want new sisters, you need to buy what's still in stock then and only then will GW start to even consider making plastic models.

If you want new, start buying the old.

There have been several times in the past years when various items in the Sisters catalog have gone "Out of Stock", sometimes for several weeks, before being returned to inventory so... you basically have no idea what you're talking about. Sisters do sell, and have traditionally sold as well as any other third-tier army which would be Necrons, Dark Eldar and Tyranids... all of which have received major revamps in the past, some more recently than others.

+1 to Psienesis

I also like GW's LotR game, I mean it is one of my favorite games - and GW sort of half-assed it with the support for a while (not in small part because of things beyond their control) and stuff started to go OOS and OOP and all the wisemen of the internet gathered to tell how GW is a business and cannot be expected to support a game no one plays because after all they have never seen it played at their store.

And then, earlier this year, GW decided to start supporting the game again and lo and behold they invited the game's extensive, well-organized British fanbase to come in for a day celebrating the game, to compete in an official tournament, and they announced not only that OOP models would go back into production but that there would even be new models and a new supplement.

Where are the wisemen of the internet now? Busy telling us that GW is a business and cannot be expected to support a faction like SoB that no one wants or plays ...

The 5th Edition Dark Eldar Codex happened.

Here's hoping Lightning Strikes Twice.