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I have returned from Gamesfest 04 and attended both of the black library panels there and have a few things of note to share that I have not seen mentioned here before. They had a guy on hand to prevent them leaking spoilers so not too much in the way of juicy info I'm afraid.

Sandy Mitchell is working on a new Commissar Cain novel which is set in a space hulk and will be the first book in another set of 3 hopefully. (Set in a space hulk so he could buy a copy of Space Hulk and claim it back against tax he claims )

James Swallow is writing the next HH book after Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns and it is titled Nemesis and will be about assassins, with very little space marines stuff, in which


On the question of how many books there would be, James Swallow said there would be 666 books, then Graham McNeil said there would be around a million. He then joked it would be blogged and on warseer so I thought I'd post this imaginary rumour here on dakka first so we can pip warseer and bols to the post on that one... nyah nyah

It was hinted that a massive ultramarines arc is planned for the HH series written by multiple authors. I think they hinted at 3 books but my memory got fuzzy on the drive home through endless traffic jams.

Thousand sons and Prospero Burns are written to be extremely integrated and many elements of the books go back and forth between the two, linking them extremely closely. From Graham's description it sounds like each one will need to be read twice to get the most out of them which sounds good value considering we have to wait for so long for them!

The Horus Heresy panel also hinted at a MASSIVE twist that will "blow everyone's minds". However they could not comment on it further but were visibly brimming with excitement, stating loads of ideas have been going around, and said it will turn the whole 40k universe around a bit. Begin Internet conjecture....

Finally, when asked their personal opinion if GW will ever release any Warhammer 30k stuff, the general opinion was no as the design studio is very focused on 40k, lotr and WHFB. It was suggested that it would not be too hard for them to do such a thing, but that is was not very likely and even a simple apocalypse add on for it would probably be asking too much (again all this was just opinion as Black Library is a separate entity).

legoburner wrote:
The Horus Heresy panel also hinted at a MASSIVE twist that will "blow everyone's minds". However they could not comment on it further but were visibly brimming with excitement, stating loads of ideas have been going around, and said it will turn the whole 40k universe around a bit. Begin Internet conjecture....

I suspect.. (and don't quote me or anything)... Horus MAY totally rebel and decide to rule the galaxy, and actually ASSAULT Terra.. maybe even get to fight mano-a-mano with his clone father..

THAT would be a major blow to the Emperor and the Space Legions..

(Oh, and Legoburner... thanks for the info!)

Ah I also forgot to mention, I asked if they had any organised method of tracking the various details of novels like timelines, products, etc. They all laughed and said no, but there is a general style guide. Just an interesting tidbit as I would have presumed they might have a wiki or something like that, but I guess it all comes down to the editors.

A 3 book series about the Ultramarines in the Heresy?

The Ultramarines who really didn't do much during the Heresy?

Other than get outmaneuvered so that they couldn't do much in the Heresy?

Really, not everyone wants to be an Ultramarine Tactical Squad member, despite what the latest Space Marine Codex would have us believe!

NEMESIS? An assassins? And a major Primarch, er, character dies? Anyway, written by Swallow? Not sure, as his non-Heresy stuff was, unimpressive, but his Heresy novel was actually quite good...

legoburner wrote:Ah I also forgot to mention, I asked if they had any organised method of tracking the various details of novels like timelines, products, etc. They all laughed and said no, but there is a general style guide. Just an interesting tidbit as I would have presumed they might have a wiki or something like that, but I guess it all comes down to the editors.

Wait, they have editors?

Alpharius wrote:

legoburner wrote:Ah I also forgot to mention, I asked if they had any organised method of tracking the various details of novels like timelines, products, etc. They all laughed and said no, but there is a general style guide. Just an interesting tidbit as I would have presumed they might have a wiki or something like that, but I guess it all comes down to the editors.

Wait, they have editors?

Yeah, what he said...

Also, the UM did do something in the HH. They sulked about on the Eastern Front, got slaughtered at Calth, were roadblocked by about 3 Alpha Legionnaires and then turned up in time to claim victory...

Sounds about right...

And probably straight out of the 'secret chapters' of the Codex Astartes...

Er, though, more importantly - thanks for the info, Lego!

I dunno, I didn't like Eisenstein but I liked the blood angels omnibus...

I won't mind some novels about the Ultramarines - although battle for the Abyss was awful - as what happened on Calth is barely detailed and Kor Phaeron sounds cool!

I'm quite optimistic about the Nemesis novel - if its like Dan Abnetts Custodes short story then it could be good - and I like to see things from a non marine perspective (ie. Legion Geno's)

But yeah, all sounds really good, I love the Horus Heresy stuff! Cheers Lego!

I think all Robute Gulliman did was sit down and write a book as his marines got brutally slaughtered then looked very high and mighty when he claimed victory for a battle he hadn't even seen, this is the impression I get from conversation with friends and at GW, he was effectively a massive pile of blue powered armoured uselessness!

Great Unclean One wrote:I think all Robute Gulliman did was sit down and write a book as his marines got brutally slaughtered then looked very high and mighty when he claimed victory for a battle he hadn't even seen, this is the impression I get from conversation with friends and at GW, he was effectively a massive pile of blue powered armoured uselessness!

As much as I like to make fun of Ultramarines (and I do!), you've go to give him some credit - Ultramar is pretty much the only place any one of us would like living in that Galaxy!

Nice info, thanks for sharing!

My disappointment with some of the HH novels is they seem to 40K. Battle for the Boring Abyss was the worst.

I generally don't mind Swallows stuff. Though I haven't read the BA books (I'd rather drink drano)

Smurf 3 book arc? Meh. I'll buy it because I'm a 40K gerbil and can't resist. I hope Graham sets the trilogy up then. He at least makes Smurfs not make me want to light the book on fire.

There was another thread that mentioned this but if the Smurfs get 3 books then I wonder how many the Siege of Terra will get? Just to prove me wrong BL will probably have it all in one book but I can hope for more. Though I'll probably be in a wheelchair and have to have a nurse read it to me by the time it comes out.

If 'Nemesis' is about assasins and a 'major character' dies, it will probably follow the assasination of Konrad Kruze, the Night Lords' primarch.

Hmm...

This:

legoburner wrote:I asked if they had any organised method of tracking the various details of novels like timelines, products, etc. ...

... followed by this:

legoburner wrote:They all laughed and said no

... is just frightening.

Not because of what it could do to Black Library books, but because I have a feeling that this is the way all of GW is run. Everything is done in a vacuum with only the most basic structure or framework to guide them.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not because of what it could do to Black Library books, but because I have a feeling that this is the way all of GW is run. Everything is done in a vacuum with only the most basic structure or framework to guide them.

Sometimes, it sure does appear that way doesn't it? I honestly don't know how they keep things straight lore-wise without a huge bible and/or some sort of charting being done. But maybe the lore is so massive and convoluted (Hello Night lords!) it's better to just steam roll/retcon old stuff and be done with it.

There's a few people I know who hate the Horus heresy books because they are "too different" from "what actually happened" in <insert source here>.

Well I thought the whole point of the HH series was to codify what happened during that period. If they aren't even keeping any real structure as to how it should be done then... uhh... what's to stop them from contradicting themselves in the next Codex release, or even the next HH book?

How many HH books can there be?

A lot, seeing as the whole damn mess lasted some hundred years and spanned thousands of lightyears.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Well I thought the whole point of the HH series was to codify what happened during that period. If they aren't even keeping any real structure as to how it should be done then... uhh... what's to stop them from contradicting themselves in the next Codex release, or even the next HH book?

My question to them was for general black library stuff. The HH stuff does seem to be a lot more organised with a general editor and all major authors attending frequent meetings where details are discussed. I'm not sure how librarians got into the dark angels when all psychic stuff was banned according to earlier novels, but other than that the HH novels have been fairly tightly woven.

Alpharius wrote:
A 3 book series about the Ultramarines in the Heresy?

The Ultramarines who really didn't do much during the Heresy?

I find it difficult to see how they could get 3 books out of a legion that did nearly nothing in the Heresy!

Actually, we don't know what the Ultras have done during the Heresy, other than fighting over Calth.

Besides, the Horus Heresy happened during the Great Crusade, so it's not as if the Ultramarines ran out of non-Imperial worlds to take, not to mention ones that had been taken that were falling to Chaos during this period.

They mightn't've been fighting on Terra, but to say they did 'nothing' shows ignorance of the time and the geography. Would those who believe this way claim Guilliman sat around with his 100,000 Marines doing nothing? And that the entire Ultima Segmentum/Eastern Fringe sat quiet during this period?

C'mon guys, that's like saying that because the Russians weren't involved in storming the beaches at Normandy, they did 'nothing' during WWII.

Oh...DON'T mention the war!!!!

I think the gripe is that while the Ultras may well have been doing their duty, so was every other Legion in that period, and while its commendable, its not really HH worthy writing about it.....people, want to know who was doing who in the throws of the Great Heresy!

Delephont wrote:Oh...DON'T mention the war!!!!

I think the gripe is that while the Ultras may well have been doing their duty, so was every other Legion in that period, and while its commendable, its not really HH worthy writing about it.....people, want to know who was doing who in the throws of the Great Heresy!

The series is about a goddamn civil war between Space Marines. What do you suggest gets written about it? How Joe Citizen went to the Pub of Grim Darkness with Bob Citizen?

For someone who whines so much about GW, you don't seem to know much about the fluff.

Cheese Elemental, I think he meant World War 2...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Besides, the Horus Heresy happened during the Great Crusade, so it's not as if the Ultramarines ran out of non-Imperial worlds to take, not to mention ones that had been taken that were falling to Chaos during this period.

They mightn't've been fighting on Terra, but to say they did 'nothing' shows ignorance of the time and the geography. Would those who believe this way claim Guilliman sat around with his 100,000 Marines doing nothing? And that the entire Ultima Segmentum/Eastern Fringe sat quiet during this period?

C'mon guys, that's like saying that because the Russians weren't involved in storming the beaches at Normandy, they did 'nothing' during WWII.

QFT!

That could be the good think about the ultramarines books, its clear we don't know what the ultramarines did so a few books about it would be good...

Just Dave wrote:Cheese Elemental, I think he meant World War 2...

No, as I read it, he's complaining about how the Horus Heresy novels are focused on the Horus Heresy and not normal people.

Well if that is the case then thats a helluva lousy argument!

The Horus Heresy panel also hinted at a MASSIVE twist that will "blow everyone's minds".

I heard that Horus might turn on the...

Darn, someone beat me to it.

Isn't this kind of like promising major twists in a Star Wars Prequel?

Anything for warhammer mentioned?

Admittedly I don't follow the HH series, but what would be a major twist would be to do a prequel book to set the scene for what followed (if they haven't already done this). I.e. looking at the creation of the space marines and how they dispersed.

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:If 'Nemesis' is about assasins and a 'major character' dies, it will probably follow the assasination of Konrad Kruze, the Night Lords' primarch.

Except that is all post Heresy of course.

We had some discussion* about this here previously.






*This is a lie.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Cheese Elemental, I think he meant World War 2...

No, as I read it, he's complaining about how the Horus Heresy novels are focused on the Horus Heresy and not normal people.

If you don't understand what I've written, then why not be civilised and simply ask?

My first line was a tongue in cheek response to H.B.M.C where his post mentions WWII.....perhpas I should have quoted him, but considering my post is directly below his, I didn't think it was worth while......you live and learn.

My following statements, attempt to justify, what I belive the major gripe with dedicating books to the Ultramarines is based on. That being, that while the Ultramarines were surely active and doing their part for the Great Crusade, they actually played little part in the actual Horus Heresy.....at least as far as GW has comitted to canon so far.......again, this was a direct response to H.B.M.Cs post.

Now, I could flame you, and call you all sorts of stupid internet hero names......however, can I suggest, in future, you sould just politely request clarification before hurling insults at people....its makes the whole forum experience so much nicer.

The twist is at the very end when the Emperor is about to strike down Horus, Horus wakes up and it was all a dream and the events that transpired are false. Then BL will release the Horus Heresy: 2nd Edition which has subtle changes to the storyline and you have to buy the whole series if you want to really know what happened. Also there's a twist at the end of 2nd Ed.