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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Sheffield, UK

Herein I will keep a list of all the known fan sites who received a cease and desist letter and how they are adapting (or not). I'll try to keep this up to date as new information is received and confirmed. Apparently there are 50+ affected websites.

talkbloodbowl.com Bloodbowl fansite: Changed domain to talkfantasyfootball.org

blood-bowl.net Bloodbowl fansite: Changed domain to thenaf.net

bbarena.net French Bloodbowl fansite: Unknown

enefel.org French Bloodbowl fansite: Unknown

darkreign40k.com Dark Heresy RPG fansite: Attempting to comply with C&D letter

portmaw.com Battlefleet Gothic fansite: Unknown

bloodbowl.net Bloodbowl fansite: Closed 28/Aug/09. Site domain being transferred

fumbbl.com Bloodbowl fansite: Unknown

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2009/11/13 13:12:33


I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf. - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show

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Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Dark Reign got a letter ? Have you got any details/pertinent summary. Many thanks.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
We made gods and jailers because we felt small and alone," he said. "We let them try us and judge us and, like lambs to the slaughter, we allowed ourselves to be... sentenced. See! Now! Our sentence is up.
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Sheffield, UK

"I have received a Cease and Desist letter from Games Workshop's legal group. The website is not allowed to use any art or text from either Games Workshop or Fantasy Flight Games products, not even linked from other websites like Amazon.

You can understand that it is very dificult, maybe impossible, for a fansite to exist if it can't show the product(s) it writes about.

GW has given 19th of november as the deadline. If at that date any images or text remain than they will sue me.

So, unless somebody knows a solution DR40K will cease to be on the 18th." - Mordheim (Dark Reign 40k)

http://darkreign40k.com/forum/index.php?topic=3071.0

I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf. - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show

Spain in Flames (Spanish Civil War for Flames of War) Facebook Group
 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Cheers fella !

.. good grief, you think things are dumb enough currently and then...

..sad thing is, it's not even that much of a surprise anymore.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/09 17:13:14


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
We made gods and jailers because we felt small and alone," he said. "We let them try us and judge us and, like lambs to the slaughter, we allowed ourselves to be... sentenced. See! Now! Our sentence is up.
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Poster boy for the pointless reality TV star generation.






Somewhere in southern England.

George Spiggott wrote:"I have received a Cease and Desist letter from Games Workshop's legal group. The website is not allowed to use any art or text from either Games Workshop or Fantasy Flight Games products, not even linked from other websites like Amazon.

You can understand that it is very dificult, maybe impossible, for a fansite to exist if it can't show the product(s) it writes about.

GW has given 19th of november as the deadline. If at that date any images or text remain than they will sue me.

So, unless somebody knows a solution DR40K will cease to be on the 18th." - Mordheim (Dark Reign 40k)

http://darkreign40k.com/forum/index.php?topic=3071.0


The law of copyright has a clear provision of fair use which allows the use of excerpts for the purposes of comment, criticism and review.


It seems to have become impossible to discuss any aspect of GW nowadays without GW being criticised and people leaping to GW's defence on the grounds that it has become impossible to discuss any aspect of GW nowadays without people leaping to criticise them.

Forum posting guidelines, please learn them! You will be tested. 
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth






Busy somewhere, airin' out the skin jobs.

Has Dakka recieved any sort of letter along these lines?

Is it a concern here?

I have never failed to seize on 4+ in my life!

The best 40k page in the Universe
COMMORRAGH 
   
Made in us
Wing Commander




The home of the Alamo, TX

40k Vassal and that 40k Comic also got some legal letters didn't they? However not much sympathy can be had imo for these cases especially the latter who was basically trying to write a book using/stealing 40k material verbatim.

Can't say I surfed any of those other sites listed though so I know even less of the situation regarding 'em.



 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Poster boy for the pointless reality TV star generation.






Somewhere in southern England.

Deadshane1 wrote:Has Dakka recieved any sort of letter along these lines?

Is it a concern here?


Not as far as I know.

No, because (a) the term DakkaDakka is ™ of DakkaDakka not GW, (b) the site content is discussion, review, etc. involving based around GW and other companies' games as well as more general modelling topics, therefore not infringing copyright or trading exclusively off GW properties.

It seems to have become impossible to discuss any aspect of GW nowadays without GW being criticised and people leaping to GW's defence on the grounds that it has become impossible to discuss any aspect of GW nowadays without people leaping to criticise them.

Forum posting guidelines, please learn them! You will be tested. 
   
Made in gb
Heroic Senior Officer





London

GW seem to want to crush all coverage of their product outside their control. How things change. When they got rid of their own forums they suggested that people find other fan sites around the web to join. Now they seem to have decided they don't like their customers seeing a hobby outside their control so want to do what they can to get rid of it all. They really have to be one of the most paranoid and aggressively posessive companies in the entire hobby.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/09 18:10:26


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




United States of England

This to me shows the fallacy of creating a GW based fansite, or any fan based material for that matter.....not even so much because of the threats they throw around, but also because its madness to support a product that the actual OEM company doesn't support!

In my opinion, if GW doesn't support its products let them die along with their profit margins.

This kind of thing sickens me, and its one of the key reasons why some of the GW WH40K projects I was intending to fund have fallen by the way-side! I'd rather place that investment into my own projects as opposed to further supporting their antics!

I hope, no pray! that all of this comes back to destroy them. I hope the legal "high flyers" that feel they are doing something "whizz" end up looking at an ever decreasing desire for their products, and end up having to pull out all the stops just to sell a single miniature!!!

These people seem to have forgotten that all their selling is a luxury pastime based object, not a cure for cancer or a method for deep space galactic exploration!

Man down, Man down.... 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Stirring oratory and tactical genius.






The command bunker next to the vox-caster.

Funny that on the first page that George linked, someone already figured out EXACTLY why those specific sites are being targeted. Yet nobody mentioned it here...

Millandson wrote: It might entirely be down to the fact that we have "40k" in the website domain name and site name, as well as the linking of GW images from their servers, which is bandwidth theft, which can be illegal.


Admittedly, he posted that kinda small after the complete IP page that GW has (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?community=&catId=&categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4).

But yes, while it's silly...it does make sense. People deep linking to the GW articles, photos, etc is a HUGE bandwidth leech. I know if someone started deep linking from my photobucket account or a private homepage, I'd go after them too.
   
Made in us
Wing Commander




The home of the Alamo, TX

Yea the lawyers are just doing their jobs here. Again its not really GW you should hate since they're following the legal advice made by their legal professionals - I don't think very many company executives would argue against their own legal department after all.



 
   
Made in us
[MOD]








George Spiggott wrote:Herein I will keep a list of all the Fansites who received a C&D and how they are adapting (or not). I'll try to keep this up to date as new information is received and confirmed. Apparently there are 54 affected websites in total.

talkbloodbowl.com Bloodbowl fansite: Closed 08/11/09


You wrote this as day/month/year, right?

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Soul Token





Can't wait to get mine *chuckles*


j/k.

How crazy can this get~


The fastest, safest, and largest trade market on the net.
 
   
Made in pt
Tunneling Trygon







Site owner receives the C&D and thinks
"Cut the name, create your own artwork, ditch any kind of donations system and... wait there a minute, why the frack do I need to support & give tons of money with free publicity to a company pro bono, If I dont need them for basicly anything? I may well just do my thing for myself OR support and have fun with other hobbies companies who apreciate my efforts."

Thats what goes into the minds of fansites owners... and most will call it quits... less good fansites= less free publicity... last time I checked word of mouth was GW publicity style, so good publicity there for sure.

I ask if it wasnt for BB fansites... would BB even be alive?

   
Made in de
Plastictrees





Bonn

RogueMarket wrote:
How crazy can this get~


Well, yanno ... THIS IS GW!!!!!11
   
Made in fi
Junior Officer with Laspistol







NAVARRO wrote:I ask if it wasnt for BB fansites... would BB even be alive?

Absolutely not, inasmuch it is alive even now. With TalkBB gone, even less so.

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.  
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Sheffield, UK

malfred wrote:You wrote this as day/month/year, right?

Yep, they went belly up yesterday.

I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf. - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show

Spain in Flames (Spanish Civil War for Flames of War) Facebook Group
 
   
Made in ie
[DCM]
Lord of Carrion






Dusseldorf

This is really bad form. I agree, hotlinking/deeplinking or whatever is very poor form, but the correct approach is to start out by asking them nicely to stop. Most people would have no problem with stopping in that situation- often, they don't realise that what they are doing is leeching bandwidth.
C&D is ridiculously heavy handed, especially in a fringe hobby like this where customer goodwill counts for so much.



Mantic Undead Showcase:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/560734.page 
   
Made in gb
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine




George Spiggott wrote:"I have received a Cease and Desist letter from Games Workshop's legal group. The website is not allowed to use any art or text from either Games Workshop or Fantasy Flight Games products, not even linked from other websites like Amazon.

You can understand that it is very dificult, maybe impossible, for a fansite to exist if it can't show the product(s) it writes about.

GW has given 19th of november as the deadline. If at that date any images or text remain than they will sue me.

So, unless somebody knows a solution DR40K will cease to be on the 18th." - Mordheim (Dark Reign 40k)

http://darkreign40k.com/forum/index.php?topic=3071.0


erm heres an idea:


take the donations button away. they can't sue you if your not making money off of it because of the fair use agreement laws.

   
Made in gb
Heroic Senior Officer





London

twistinthunder wrote:take the donations button away. they can't sue you if your not making money off of it because of the fair use agreement laws.


Most of these people aren't making money from them, donations barely cover the costs of the site meaning the owner covers the rest. Few people are going to shoulder the full costs of supporting a website for a community. Which is great for GW because it's a simply way to get them closed down.
   
Made in ie
[DCM]
Lord of Carrion






Dusseldorf

Exactly.
Really, I can understand defending your IP, but you can be NICE about it, and probably garner good press!



Mantic Undead Showcase:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/560734.page 
   
Made in gb
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine




Kanluwen wrote:Funny that on the first page that George linked, someone already figured out EXACTLY why those specific sites are being targeted. Yet nobody mentioned it here...

Millandson wrote: It might entirely be down to the fact that we have "40k" in the website domain name and site name, as well as the linking of GW images from their servers, which is bandwidth theft, which can be illegal.


Admittedly, he posted that kinda small after the complete IP page that GW has (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?community=&catId=&categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4).

But yes, while it's silly...it does make sense. People deep linking to the GW articles, photos, etc is a HUGE bandwidth leech. I know if someone started deep linking from my photobucket account or a private homepage, I'd go after them too.



reading the link i find:

you cannot:

- Create, distribute, or use any material that is derogatory, obscene, or offensive.


but the fact that (whilst witch hunters are still female aren't very main stream) the mainstream models that are derogatory,obscene and offensive to women considering the sell daemonettes which:

- show a female body part that is not normally seen bare (in public).
- show them scantily clad in tight fitting garments.
- they mainstream that most (if you disregard with hunters then all) women are daemons.

also surely it cant be their trademark if i change it so it doesn't look like they're trademark.

   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Poster boy for the pointless reality TV star generation.






Somewhere in southern England.

twistinthunder wrote:
George Spiggott wrote:"I have received a Cease and Desist letter from Games Workshop's legal group. The website is not allowed to use any art or text from either Games Workshop or Fantasy Flight Games products, not even linked from other websites like Amazon.

You can understand that it is very dificult, maybe impossible, for a fansite to exist if it can't show the product(s) it writes about.

GW has given 19th of november as the deadline. If at that date any images or text remain than they will sue me.

So, unless somebody knows a solution DR40K will cease to be on the 18th." - Mordheim (Dark Reign 40k)

http://darkreign40k.com/forum/index.php?topic=3071.0


erm heres an idea:


take the donations button away. they can't sue you if your not making money off of it because of the fair use agreement laws.


Do newspapers make money when they sell a copy with a review of a book or film in?

Yes.

You don't have to not make money while making use of Fair Use.

The inverse is also true. You can copy and distribute GW rulebooks at a loss to yourself, it doesn't make it not a violation
of copyright.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/09 20:43:52


It seems to have become impossible to discuss any aspect of GW nowadays without GW being criticised and people leaping to GW's defence on the grounds that it has become impossible to discuss any aspect of GW nowadays without people leaping to criticise them.

Forum posting guidelines, please learn them! You will be tested. 
   
Made in gb
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine




Howard A Treesong wrote:
twistinthunder wrote:take the donations button away. they can't sue you if your not making money off of it because of the fair use agreement laws.


Most of these people aren't making money from them, donations barely cover the costs of the site meaning the owner covers the rest. Few people are going to shoulder the full costs of supporting a website for a community. Which is great for GW because it's a simply way to get them closed down.


doesn't make a difference anything that can be used to collect money from someone can and will be seen as breaching copyright flaws.

   
Made in gb
Heroic Senior Officer





London

twistinthunder wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:
twistinthunder wrote:take the donations button away. they can't sue you if your not making money off of it because of the fair use agreement laws.


Most of these people aren't making money from them, donations barely cover the costs of the site meaning the owner covers the rest. Few people are going to shoulder the full costs of supporting a website for a community. Which is great for GW because it's a simply way to get them closed down.


doesn't make a difference anything that can be used to collect money from someone can and will be seen as breaching copyright flaws.


I think you miss my point. I'm not saying that lack of profit makes it "ok", I don't know quite how the the argument about that aspect would work out in a legal way. What I'm saying is that the suggested removal of the donations button isn't a viable option. And GW know it.


I think the real issue here isn't whether GW has the legal right to close sites down, but whether they should apply it. It frankly seems to be done for little reason other than to absolutely control their product. They could quite simply overlook lots of fan websites and treat them as little more than free advertising. Obviously hotlinking to their images and using their bandwidth is not on and website owners should prevent it, but the idea that if that by not pursuing these sites GW run the risk of losing their IP doesn't hold water IMO. You aren't allowing use of your IP, you're over looking unofficial use. Many of these sites have been online many years, if there was serious risk of an IP challenge then surely it would have come up before now.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/11/09 20:57:15


 
   
Made in gb
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine




Kilkrazy wrote:
Do newspapers make money when they sell a copy with a review of a book or film in?

Yes.

You don't have to not make money while making use of Fair Use.


erm im pretty sure thats the point of fair use.

if your making money from something (whether or not you deem it 'making money') you cannot claim fair use because your not using it fairly.

i cant use one of you models and then put in a magazine/newspaper without your permission because its your model and im making money from the magazine/newspaper i also cant say i was using it fairly because i was the only one gaining any financial gain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Howard A Treesong wrote:
twistinthunder wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:
twistinthunder wrote:take the donations button away. they can't sue you if your not making money off of it because of the fair use agreement laws.


Most of these people aren't making money from them, donations barely cover the costs of the site meaning the owner covers the rest. Few people are going to shoulder the full costs of supporting a website for a community. Which is great for GW because it's a simply way to get them closed down.


doesn't make a difference anything that can be used to collect money from someone can and will be seen as breaching copyright flaws.


I think you miss my point. I'm not saying that lack of profit makes it "ok", I don't know quite how the the argument about that aspect would work out in a legal way. What I'm saying is that the suggested removal of the donations button isn't a viable option. And GW know it.


i think you miss my point.

he's getting money from people while using gw IP, if he took away the donations button he wouldn't be gaining anything and could claim fair use.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:Has Dakka recieved any sort of letter along these lines?

Is it a concern here?


Not as far as I know.

No, because (a) the term DakkaDakka is ™ of DakkaDakka not GW, (b) the site content is discussion, review, etc. involving based around GW and other companies' games as well as more general modelling topics, therefore not infringing copyright or trading exclusively off GW properties.


how many people place by their pictures this:

"miniature © Games Workshop 2003. All rights reserved. Used without permission - model painted by xxxxxxx"


because i think this could bring down this site if gw wanted to really people off:

We encourage fellow hobbyists to show off their painting skills by taking photos of their miniatures and putting the on the site. Please remember to correctly credit the IP - "miniature © Games Workshop 2003. All rights reserved. Used without permission - model painted by xxxxxxx"


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/11/09 20:53:40


   
Made in gb
Heroic Senior Officer





London

twistinthunder wrote:i think you miss my point.

he's getting money from people while using gw IP, if he took away the donations button he wouldn't be gaining anything and could claim fair use.


If most took it away they couldn't afford to run their sites. GW are being disingenuous in making it seem like they are making some small reasonable request, they know that removal of a donations system will sink many sites.
   
Made in us
Skink Chief with Poisoned Javelins






Down under

NAVARRO wrote:
I ask if it wasnt for BB fansites... would BB even be alive?


Categorically no.

 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
-- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . .-.






Toowoomba, Australia

BB is having a resurgence in Australia with very healthy leagues run in all the major cities.

The vast majority of players are 10+ year veterans but there are some newer guys, all introduced by friends but who got inspired by the websites.

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