Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just got hold of the new Wargames Illustrated (http://www.wargamesillustrated.net/) from my local newsagent this lunchtime and came across an interesting news item:

Apparently at the Historical Wargames group held at Warhammer World last month, Warwick Kinrade was demonstrating a new WWII game that Forgeworld are planning to release next year. Apparently it is aimed at 20mm or 15mm rather than 28mm and has a planned release date of "early on" next year. The mechanics are reported as owing nothing to Warhammer.

No comment about whether figures will accompany the rules, although it sounds unlikely looking at the comment about it being applicable for a couple of (admittedly only slightly) different scales. Could be the first fruits of Warhammer Historical's subsumation within Forgeworld? An interesting rival to FoW?

if only forge world makes the models, I'm sure everyone that plays it will be using the FOW models instead. Aren't they 15mm? Is Epic 15mm also? or smaller?

Forgeworld publishing the rules would put themselves behind a rock of thier own making. How can you hope to compete when your business practices dictate you don't sell via other parties?

Further, 15mm is a scale that none of GW's games are in. Why bother when there is already so much out there?

Necros wrote:Is Epic 15mm also? or smaller?

Epic is 6mm.

This is just an elaborate plot by GW to produce 15 mm WWII models then at a later date send a cease and desist letter to Battlefront for stealing their business.

I'd file this rumor away under "never gonna happen" or "not a chance in hell".

Now if GW itself did something radical like WWII figs in 40K scale with a rules supplement for WWII battles using the 40K rules engine as a base I think they would have a gold mine on their hands.

Imagine GW quality plastic WWII kits using 40K rules...

FOW superior GW inferior.

CT GAMER wrote:Imagine GW quality plastic WWII kits...

That would be awesome!

CT GAMER wrote:using 40K rules...

Oh, yeah...nevermind.

CT GAMER wrote:I'd file this rumor away under "never gonna happen" or "not a chance in hell".

Now if GW itself did something radical like WWII figs in 40K scale with a rules supplement for WWII battles using the 40K rules engine as a base I think they would have a gold mine on their hands.

Imagine GW quality plastic WWII kits using 40K rules...

Tamiya does them better. Tamiya does them cheaper. If 40K tried they'd get their heads handed to them.
If you go FOW level you have multiple competitors and rulesets for simple (FOW) and real math level historical wargaming.

To be honest, I find the FoW 15mm models to be a little lacking in crispness and a bit bloblike for my tastes. I prefer to game in 20mm (or 1:72 to be more correct) which is usually a lot cheaper as you can get very cheap and good-looking plastic vehicle kits and the figures of humans still are crisp. You can get some nice 15mm metals from the likes of Eureka though if you enjoy that scale. No need for FW to produce the models when they won't get any shelf space in GW stores anyhow as there are plenty of extant models. #

@GT Gamer. Nope, I think you're wrong. It *has* already happened. Or so the photograph accompanying the article would indicate. I have no reason to doubt the voracity of Wargames Illustrated's reporting. In the past WH have published plenty of sets of rules produced by GW staff "in their spare time" (e.g. the "Legends of..." series, which were created by Mark Latham.) I have no direct knowledge of the process but I suspect the authors are paid on commission rather than through salary so can afford to do it "out of hours". There is absolutely no reason why GW/FW should not produce a WWII ruleset when they already have numerous historical titles under their belt, most recently a set for WWI called "Great War". Warwick Kinrade is an self-acknowledged "tread head" so why not? By all means be skeptical, but the evidence is all positive.

What makes this article noteworthy to me is that it seems to be a totally new crfeation rather than an adaptation to a new period of a set already in GW's stable as it were.

Are you sure that this isn't someone mistaking them using the old 40K WWII rules that were/are circulating around the web?

I can just imagine playing Warhammer World War.

"My Tiger has Front AV14 to represent its thick armor"
"So what's the Panther have?"
"AV14 to represent its advanced sloped armor."
"So what's the King Tiger have?"
"Because the King Tiger has super thick and sloped armor, it has AV14."

avantgarde wrote:This is just an elaborate plot by GW to produce 15 mm WWII models then at a later date send a cease and desist letter to Battlefront for stealing their business.

I support this messsage.

Oh and to add to the chorus of derision of the thought of GW producing plastic tanks...

Can I link you to the popular 28mm range of WWII tanks produced by Warlod Games for their "Bolt Action" range: http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/german-vehicles--crew-132-c.asp At around £16-£25 a pop they are much less than the price of GW's tanks, and made of resin to boot...



Lovely models, although personally I tend towards 1:72 scale myself. At around £5 a pop for a very detailed model from the likes of Italaeri and the like (or from rapid-fire.co.uk if you prefer resin at the same scale and a similar price) you can't do better for satisfying your tanky urges!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I have edited my OP to highlight the comment that the forthcoming rules allegedly owe nothing to 40k. Which fact only recommends them more to me.

It'll be interesting to see whether GW can raise their game to compete in the highly competitive but very popular "grown ups" arena of WWII gaming and away from the cosseting of their fanatical and oh-so-forgiving 40k fanbase!

If BOEING can trademark C-47 or B-24 I don´t know why GW can´t start their own WWII game and trademark Panzer II as a unit or Rommel and Hitler as especial characters.

M.

Ew, I see what you did there. . . .

Isn't Warmaster in 15mm?

I find it interesting they had to explain it wasn't going to be in anyway related to Warhammer.

I would agree that 28mm WWII would strike my interest.

I can just see GW's IP page now.... 'Hitler, Stalin, Nazi's, Axis, Allies, Soviet Union, T-34, Panzer, and Germany are all trademarked, and copyright to Games Workshop, and are its sole intellectual property. Any infringement upon it....'

This may make me look at ww2 for gaming purposes. Can't say I would hold much hope for the ruleset if they came from GW head office but historicals look like they play okay so maybe there is hope?

Maybe i should look at historicals point blank and leave the grimdark behind?

Would it be such a bad thing if FW/GW went in this direction surely the business would realise it had to step up with direct competition in the market place? They would have top be better than 'me too' with such a project..wouldn't they?

Ketara wrote:I can just see GW's IP page now.... 'Hitler, Stalin, Nazi's, Axis, Allies, Soviet Union, T-34, Panzer, and Germany are all trademarked, and copyright to Games Workshop, and are its sole intellectual property. Any infringement upon it....'

Don't laugh... Lucas did accidentally (or so they claim) lay claimt to the trademark of the word "Nazi"! The story goes that some Indiana Jones action figures were produced, some of which were WWII German SS soldiers and the like. In producing their list of the names of the figures they had "Indian Jones (TM)", etc, and "Nazi (TM)"! Didn't do them any favours...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr. Burning wrote:Maybe i should look at historicals point blank and leave the grimdark behind?

Never a bad move...

There are lots of WWII rulesets out there. One of the most accessible for former GW players (in that it plays a bit like 40k in that you need a handful of dice, you have squads and an army about the size of a 40k one, you have similar concepts such as "saving throws", etc.) is Battlefield Evolution: World at War (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=1591&qsSeries=47. At £15 for the rulebook its worth a punt. And it plays ok at pretty much any scale. I play at 20mm scale on a 6x4 board, but it would work equally well with probably anything from 10mm to 40mm scale. Even 6mm on a smaller table or 54mm on a bigger one wouldn't be too bad.

The funny thing about this is that years ago when FOW was thought up it was presented to GW in hopes of them buying it I remember it's founders stating. GW said it would never sell, and now look at it. They are trying to form their own. Sounds honestly like a bad investment. Now if they went WW1 maybe it could swing as theirs not much out their on that.

I can imagine some new characters so GW can secure some IP.

'Hitring'
'Gorler'
'Churchgomery'

What special effects would these guys confer on armies and units?

(Shudder)

I don't know. 15mm GW WWII. hmmmm... if it was 28mm then maybe I could be in for some more plastic crack, but at FW prices it would truly hinder most from collecting. GW and FW should just stay out of WWII since there is already so many games that to it better and cheaper. If they did a game that was 28mm pre-war Indiana Jones or Pulp Fiction style game that would be better.

Maybe last time it wasn't right for GW to enter.

I'm sure if the board thinks it is feasible and they will have all the info they will green light it. Its a popular format?, GW need to give investors a return and by moving into different markets they can secure new business and improve on their growth.

Empchild wrote: Now if they went WW1 maybe it could swing as theirs not much out their on that.

*Ahem*

They already do!

Mr. Burning wrote:
Maybe last time it wasn't right for GW to enter.

I'm sure if the board thinks it is feasible and they will have all the info they will green light it. Its a popular format?, GW need to give investors a return and by moving into different markets they can secure new business and improve on their growth.

Or inversely take losses as they get shanked.

Problem is 'The Great War' is based upon 40k mechanics and suffers badly for it.

It'll be interesting to see what Warwick Kinrade can do outside of the 40k arena (where his works are so-so). The big problem is long term support, I don't trust Forgeworld or GW to give any.

Osbad wrote:

Empchild wrote: Now if they went WW1 maybe it could swing as theirs not much out their on that.

*Ahem*

They already do!

I meant miniatures not just rules wise. I understand a WW1 would be more to a genre of 40k but to a lesser extent so is WW2. A lost of combat in general in the 20th century was geared more to a squad/platton level in rl. This became very much more true to the point as the russian revolution ended and weapons/tactics finally advanced out of the old ways. FOW does a great job bringing to account the larger battles while keeping them at a level say no bigger then a company and I give them great pops for their authenticity and dedication to it. That said maybe GW could do a great WW2 but I would say it would have to be in more of a 40k format then 15mm being as FOW has really corned the market well on this with amazing prices, GREAT PRIZE SUPPORT for events, and all around amazing customer service. The way a certain company(to rename namely so as to not bash) used to be.

This was just leaked by my Sister's cousin's boyfriend who know 4 different redshirts.

One of the abilities for the Hitler special character is called "Crybaby Sore Loser" and he will kill himself if the germans are losing the game in turn 4.

No reason why GW should not make a ruleset for WW2.It's isn't an expensive or very difficult thing to do, and there are plenty of rulesets already out there which they can draw upon, including their own.

Making models for such a game is a very different matter. All GW models rely on being unique IP to prevent competition. Any WW2 players can pick form a huge range of vehicles and troops in scales from 6mm, 15mm and 28mm. There is no reason for GW to do models for WW2.

The problem for GW here is their proprietary scale model stuff.

FoW does 15mm, and players can leverage existing 15mm models.

If GW did 15mm, they'd compete with FoW, and likely see a lot of non-GW models being used.

So I can see GW going a bit larger to 20mm just to be "different", like 54mm Inquisitor and 10mm Warmaster...