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I just hope I can easily ally with daemons as Traitor Guard

Bongfu wrote:

Kurce wrote:
I think the guy on Reddit said there are no strategems in 6th from what he could tell. Now that I think about it, almost everything you posted is at odds with what the guy on Reddit said.

So, given that, Nids are still terrible and random charge distance is dumb.

Haven't seen what the Reddit guy has been posting.

All I know is that my cousin had the rulebook in front of him at his FLGS.

Sooooo, don't know what to tell you mate.

My guess is your cousin needs to work on his reading comprehension.

The dude on reddit seemed borderline illiterate as well (why is it always these people that get the first rulebook?!) but still more convincing than your stuff (which is directly at odds with revelations from WD)

wuestenfux wrote:

Neffertech wrote:I'm confused why there is this long list of possible allies for all of the armies except for tyranids (who can't ally with anyone). It feels so arbitrary for to exclude one army for no real reason. Genestealer cults still exist in the fluff don't they? And isn't that just like an imperial guard army with tyranid allies?

Weird that Dark Eldar and Marines can work together but nobody can/will work with the Nids.

Guess they're the big bad villain now, since everybody can team up with an enemy to fight a bigger enemy. Tyranids must be everyone's worst enemy.

Well, how would a human communicate with Nids?

You don't need to communicate with someone to be their ally; you just need to be shooting at the same foe.

Rulebook has shipped from GW US today.

matphat wrote:Is anyone bothered by the fact that Allies are made available to an army based purely on the fluff, and that using the fluff as a basis for who can ally with who completely ignores the idea of game balance?
There is no way that the allies rules are balanced, and I dare say no way to balance the ally rules based on the fluff.
Example?
Look how many "brothers" various Sm chapters get, and then look at how say, Orks have none, and of course Tyranids actually have NO allies.
No one is bothered by this?

You just mentioned 40k products (a product of GW) and "balance" in the same sentence.

Not sure if you noticed that but I just wanted to point that out. Just in case you missed it. Just helpin' ya out.

BlueDagger wrote:Oh how I hope this is true. Eldar Pathfinders will suddenly become FANTASTIC with the ability to tag any model in a unit with multiple AP1 hits.

I've been thinking about this.

Too bad it is 1 in 36 shots for normal guys and 1 in 18 shots for the upgrades. When it works, it'll be great.

Mohoc wrote:

That is because they want you to go to your FLGS to buy your copy.

Aye I know, but sadly even for folks like me in Blighty, with our insane GW store coverage, that can be a bit of a jaunt. For folks in the US, its almost a laughable system.

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Does anyone else think that the Phaeron upgrade is a 100% waste with the new rules?

As far as I got it, it simply allows you to assault after shooting...and who of us exactly planned to assault ANYTHING with Warriors or Immortals?

Also: really? No rending on snipers? Well, there's enough room on the shelf!

Man your necrons sure got nerfed hard, I'm so sorry that exactly one thing in your codex (which is an upgrade no less) isn't as useful now.

Let me get out my violin for ya

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD!

I did not intend to say that Necrons were nerfed...they've been buffed a lot. I just wonder why despite being written for 6th, some parts become pretty useless, e.g. Phaeron and Deathmarks (unless you go for the cheese route aka template marks).

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

Mohoc wrote:

That is because they want you to go to your FLGS to buy your copy.

Aye I know, but sadly even for folks like me in Blighty, with our insane GW store coverage, that can be a bit of a jaunt. For folks in the US, its almost a laughable system.

Tell me... my FLGS is a 90 minute drive. Then again, my FLGS is the best game store in Georgia and is well worth the drive.

Codex SM is generally the first one released after an edition shift. i doubt you'll be waiting long..

Try waiting 10+ years for an update for yor army

Well BT need to be updated first, as do DA, tau, eldar, orks, tyranids and chaos so yeah, SM players will be stuck with useless tac squads taken just because they have to for many years to come.

And yes, I have been waiting long for an army update, I played GK since they were first released and it´s been a long wait.

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Does anyone else think that the Phaeron upgrade is a 100% waste with the new rules?

As far as I got it, it simply allows you to assault after shooting...and who of us exactly planned to assault ANYTHING with Warriors or Immortals?

Also: really? No rending on snipers? Well, there's enough room on the shelf!

Man your necrons sure got nerfed hard, I'm so sorry that exactly one thing in your codex (which is an upgrade no less) isn't as useful now.

Let me get out my violin for ya

That is just brilliant, I lol'd so hard, thanks for making my day

It is kind of like GW went out of their way to prevent me from wanting to buy more 40k stuff.

Odd.

Who knew that collecting Tyranids would be a money saving venture.

Me: "New stuff?"
GW: "Not for you."
Me: "Ok."

Things I'm still wondering:

Is Acute Senses -only- the Outflanking reroll, or does it also double as Night Vision.

Do Walkers explicitly have AP2 or somesuch, or is it still woefully easy to tie up a Triarch Praetorian?

Do Heavy vehicles (or vehicles in general) receive any additional protection against Deep Striking mishaps, or is it still too dangerous to Deep Strike a Monolith?
Also with Heavy vehicles, is there something about ignoring the "can't fire other weapons" part of Ordnance. Speaking of Ordnance, still roll 2 for damage and take highest?

Just how do Outflanking and Deep Striking work? I have my doubts that it's still the same as before, due to Bloodswarm nanoscarabs not making a whole lot of sense if the unit still just stands there for a turn. Same with Deathmarks and other, similar, 'reactive deep striking' abilities.

Is it actually 2000 points and over, or OVER 2000 points for the second FoC, since I'm seeing some conflicting reports and that's an easy to misquote rule.

Can strength indeed go over 10? Only seen one person mention it, but now I'm curious.

Just where is the AP2/AP3 line drawn for "power weapons"; this, I suspect, may require a lot of errata, since consistent wording is laughable over 10 years of codices. Most notable, is a Hyperphase Sword a "Power Sword"? Looks as much an axe as a sword, the rules just say it's a "Power Weapon", and the name has little bearing if it doesn't match either "Power Sword" or "Power Axe".
I may have to reequip my Lychguard. Or break out the Pariahs.

UMGuy wrote:

solles wrote:My hope regarding the 2,000 points = 2 FoC rumor personally, is that it requires the investment of 2k points before the next chart is opened, instead of being unlocked at a game set for a 2k cap

i.e. once you have bought 2k points of models for the list, you can then buy more in expanded slots.

haven't seen any confirmation in either direction on how this works

From the chart that was posted a few posts before, it looks like 2k requires 2 HQ and 4 troops. No option or opting out. I dont know if I like this or not. Ill have to see how it plays out.

It's gonna be awfully fun seeing six long fang squads and a hydra flak battery across the table in tourneys. Seven heavy support options is the new plaid. I get the distinct feeling this edition is going to make 1850 the defacto tourney standard points value since anything above that is going to get stupid.

Sigvatr wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Does anyone else think that the Phaeron upgrade is a 100% waste with the new rules?

As far as I got it, it simply allows you to assault after shooting...and who of us exactly planned to assault ANYTHING with Warriors or Immortals?

Also: really? No rending on snipers? Well, there's enough room on the shelf!

Man your necrons sure got nerfed hard, I'm so sorry that exactly one thing in your codex (which is an upgrade no less) isn't as useful now.

Let me get out my violin for ya

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD!

I did not intend to say that Necrons were nerfed...they've been buffed a lot. I just wonder why despite being written for 6th, some parts become pretty useless, e.g. Phaeron and Deathmarks (unless you go for the cheese route aka template marks).

Actually deathmarks being nerfed? if you mark the unit, wounding on twos, and then picking which models take the wounds? how is that bad? chances are you'll get a couple sixes in a game if you counted on rending originally anyway, so that point seems a little moot to me...

Im guessing I missed the part where you can move and rapid fire 24" has been confirmed?

pretre wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:Oh how I hope this is true. Eldar Pathfinders will suddenly become FANTASTIC with the ability to tag any model in a unit with multiple AP1 hits.

I've been thinking about this.

Too bad it is 1 in 36 shots for normal guys and 1 in 18 shots for the upgrades. When it works, it'll be great.

That is what guide or doom are for I haven't seen anyone confirm if that "6" is on To Hit or To Wound. If it's To Wound they are sitting waaay pretty.

I'm starting to feel that preordering the collector's edition was a waste of time and money lol
Even though 40K is set in the future and guns should be paramount, I LOVE assaulting, running in and chopping up the enemy, but maybe GW don't want me to do that any more
Without the book actually being in our hands, these rules are still rumours, regardless of the accuracy, so things may still change and/or the updates could lessen the 'nerfs'
That being said, if the rules are genuine and there aren't any remedies in the updates, maybe saying goodbye to a game I've been playing since third is appropriate
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy more shooting armies too, but when it seems my favourite armies Dark Eldar and Tyranids are being made somewhat redundant, especially against MEQ (which I usually face), it's hard to stay invested in the game
I want at some point to collect Necrons, but I don't want to feel forced into doing so, as I do feel now, but hell, guess its a damn waiting game now
Just wish I didn't have to potentially lose £80 just to find out my armies suck lol

kirsanth wrote:It is kind of like GW went out of their way to prevent me from wanting to buy more 40k stuff.

Odd.

Who knew that collecting Tyranids would be a money saving venture.

Me: "New stuff?"
GW: "Not for you."
Me: "Ok."

I predict that Harpies will be a must have. And I'm not kidding, I have a feeling that they'll make it so that every Tyranid player wants 3 of them. Or more at 2000+!

Regarding Genestealer Cults, the problem is that they really are their own army, at least they were as they were represented in the past. They're not Tyranids plus IG. Either someday they'll get a real codex or they won't. Scale isn't the issue, as GCults have been known cause planetary-level rebellions. It's fluffilogically correct for Tyranids not to have allies. Whether it's fair or balanced to approach game design that way...well, enough people have already said their peace on that.

I'm also kinda surprised at the missions. I've never seen a "carry the football" scenario executed well.

We've heard that fast vehicles can go flat out and that's 18". Do we know how far the fast skimmers (not flyers) can move when flat out? I've heard both 24" and 30" but I've no idea what the truth is.

ShumaGorath wrote: I get the distinct feeling this edition is going to make 1850 the defacto tourney standard points value since anything above that is going to get stupid.

1999 would be just fine as a limit.

DarkStarSabre wrote:

streamdragon wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Does anyone else think that the Phaeron upgrade is a 100% waste with the new rules?

As far as I got it, it simply allows you to assault after shooting...and who of us exactly planned to assault ANYTHING with Warriors or Immortals?

Also: really? No rending on snipers? Well, there's enough room on the shelf!

If it makes you feel better, the Ork's army defining "WAAAGH!" rule is now basically crap.

My Pyrovore is still crap. The more things change, the more they stay the same!

Hah! Jokes on you, you bought a Pyrovore in the first place!

waitaminute...

(As a tyranid player also, I feel your pain.)

Ovion wrote:

StoneRaizer wrote:So if I'm reading everything correctly, allies and the second FoC are only available at 2000+ points? My group normally plays 1850, so if that's correct we don't have to worry about allies.

Allies always available, second FoC at 2000pts:
see this for a lil extra clarification:

Spoiler:

So based off that FOC is it safe to assume that any game at 2000+ points will require the use of the double FOC meaning a minimum of 2hq and 4 troops from your army plus the 1 HQ and troop for allies if you choose to use them?

If that's the case then an army with allies at 2000 would require 5 troops and 3 HQ minimum, right?

gorgon wrote:I predict that Harpies will be a must have. And I'm not kidding, I have a feeling that they'll make it so that every Tyranid player wants 3 of them. Or more at 2000+!

Regarding Genestealer Cults, the problem is that they really are their own army, at least they were as they were represented in the past. They're not Tyranids plus IG. Either someday they'll get a real codex or they won't. Scale isn't the issue, as GCults have been known cause planetary-level rebellions. It's fluffilogically correct for Tyranids not to have allies. Whether it's fair or balanced to approach game design that way...well, enough people have already said their peace on that.

I'm also kinda surprised at the missions. I've never seen a "carry the football" scenario executed well.

'As they were represented in the past' is fairly immaterial now, since they haven't been represented in years. True, they're not really Tyranids + IG, they're really more IG + Genestealers. Well, with Genestealers in the Nid book...

Take your IG army, grab a Tyranid Prime, Genestealers + Broodlord, Ymargl Genestealers... Look! A genestealer cult.

Only we don't get to do that.

WarlordRob117 wrote:

Actually deathmarks being nerfed? if you mark the unit, wounding on twos, and then picking which models take the wounds? how is that bad? chances are you'll get a couple sixes in a game if you counted on rending originally anyway, so that point seems a little moot to me...

Im guessing I missed the part where you can move and rapid fire 24" has been confirmed?

2+/3+ saves everywhere, that's what rending helped a lot with. Point is: you can already choose your target pretty well with the new "remove closest model" rule and I'd rather deny the enemy's armor save than choosing who to hit...at least against the enemies I'm up against most of the time...aka tin cans. Lots of them. A whole f-ing lot.

Therion wrote:We've heard that fast vehicles can go flat out and that's 18". Do we know how far the fast skimmers (not flyers) can move when flat out? I've heard both 24" and 30" but I've no idea what the truth is.

Fast skimmer can move 12" in the movement phase, 18" flat out in the shooting phase, for a total of 30".
Flat out for non-fast skimmers haven't been posted yet as far as I know.
I think I did read somewhere that non-fast (aka normal) vehicles can move D6 flat out in the shooting phase but have to test for dangerous terrain.

@streamdragon - As I noted in a thread in 40K General. I am wondering/partially hoping that with the allies system now in place. Special Characters might break the mold in future codexes.

For example, an Inquisitor Lord who can take Guard or other Marines as Battle Brothers.
Or a Genestealer Primarch or Magus that can be taken as an ally to Imperial Guard players, but can only select Genestealers as his troops option, and take nothing further from the Tyranid book.

Not saying such a thing will hapen, but it is a possability with allies rules now in the big book.

Fast skimmer can move 12" in the movement phase, 18" flat out in the shooting phase, for a total of 30".

Big nerf number one to Necrons. Catacomb Command Barges do the sweeping attack in the movement phase, and a movement phase move of 12" is absolutely pitiful.

Imotekh just replaced the Overlords in a thousand Necron armies all over the world, and since Annihilation Barges were already replaced by Doom Scythes, the sales of that CCB/AB kit crashed.

MPJ wrote:I'm starting to feel that preordering the collector's edition was a waste of time and money lol
Even though 40K is set in the future and guns should be paramount, I LOVE assaulting, running in and chopping up the enemy, but maybe GW don't want me to do that any more
Without the book actually being in our hands, these rules are still rumours, regardless of the accuracy, so things may still change and/or the updates could lessen the 'nerfs'
That being said, if the rules are genuine and there aren't any remedies in the updates, maybe saying goodbye to a game I've been playing since third is appropriate
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy more shooting armies too, but when it seems my favourite armies Dark Eldar and Tyranids are being made somewhat redundant, especially against MEQ (which I usually face), it's hard to stay invested in the game
I want at some point to collect Necrons, but I don't want to feel forced into doing so, as I do feel now, but hell, guess its a damn waiting game now
Just wish I didn't have to potentially lose £80 just to find out my armies suck lol

Your second sentence reminded me of a guy that my brother knows.

Him: "I will never play 40k to be honest."
Me: "Why?"
Him: "Because I refuse to play a game where forty-thousand years into the future, wars are still won by running across the battlefield and stabbing the other guy with a knife."
Me: "Hmm... you have a good point."

I got an email today telling me that mine had shipped to me. I am pretty sure it ships from Tennesee. Should have it in a few days. nice.

solles wrote:My hope regarding the 2,000 points = 2 FoC rumor personally, is that it requires the investment of 2k points before the next chart is opened, instead of being unlocked at a game set for a 2k cap

i.e. once you have bought 2k points of models for the list, you can then buy more in expanded slots.

haven't seen any confirmation in either direction on how this works

The guy on reddit with the book specifcially stated that Allies are always, and when you hit 2000pts you get a second FoC, which is just the 2HQ + 4 Troops min, then you can go nuts, that you don't need to fill the first list to 2k first.

I made this graphic

based off the seemingly solid rumours I've seen about the foc (which I've been following semi-neuroticly because of allies)

I am mildly offended that the lack of Genestealer cults is offensive to me; I never liked them, but to have them denied at this level is basically spiteful.