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Just thought I'd start something up about owners pushing the sale of miniatures at the store. I have heard of owners/employees who will actually make it mandatory that you spend x money every x days at their store to be able to use the store to play or whatever. However, I have also know people who have never spent a dollar at the store and the owner doesn't really mind.

My store I think is good with this. The owner jokes about it all the time ("Well you know, a thing of Ultramarine blue would go great with that... WOW! There's one right over there for just four dollars!") but never really pushes anything. I also think I've caught onto a sly little trick of his; ever since I started going to this particular store his tau inventory seems to have tripled, and it follows what my army seems to need. I say "man, I wish I had another broadside" and guess what shows up on the shelf the next day. My army is lacking a devilfish and suddenly 2 appear a few days later

So what about you guys? How does your store push sales if at all and where do you think the "line" is? To me the above is fine and all in good-nature, so I don't mind. Plus, now I've got a huge selection to choose from

Also, I find myself buying more now from my local store because I like the people and the owner and such. I can find most of it usually online for cheaper but I spend a few extra bucks at the store to get it simply because I figure I'm in the guys store, mine as well buy from him instead. If they don't have something I even usually ask him to order it so I can pick it up when it gets there. Does anyone else do this?

I absolutely pay where I play. Sometimes I order bits, and I definitely do a lot of trading. But I usually spend a good amount of cash. I think the key is for the store to be aware of what the customers want (like yourself) and they really need to be able to match or come close to some of the online market prices. I think buy 3 get 1 free is an excellent idea.

I also pay where I play. My store takes care of me, so I try my best to support them. It's a vicious circle that keeps repeating.

I usually buy small dollar amount items that are not worth shipping individually like specific paints or tools. And my paint orders are usually pretty large.

Unfortunately my LGS doesn't offer any real discounts on GW product, and I have a connection that gets me stuff at cost.

If they offered even 20% off then I would likely buy alot more from them as far as models.

Sabol trays are another item that I buy from them if I'm not buying enough online at once for shipping to be less than the discount I'm getting.

Fiercegoldfish wrote:JI also think I've caught onto a sly little trick of his; ever since I started going to this particular store his tau inventory seems to have tripled, and it follows what my army seems to need. I say "man, I wish I had another broadside" and guess what shows up on the shelf the next day. My army is lacking a devilfish and suddenly 2 appear a few days later

More power to him for being attentive as to the needs of his customers Cant blame the guy.

Just depends what I need at the time. None of the FLGS I've ever been at have a good bitz selection, and I tend to use alot of bitz, so I generally do alot of orders through the Warstore, but that's also because they've been so good to me in the past few months.

I do try to support where I play though. I'm still sort of mucking with my list, and every once and a while I'll get fed up with a unit that doesn't pull its weight and/or realize what an awesome replacement might be. When this happens I'll generally buy it that night. Also, i get inspiration sometimes, and if I can't wait, I'll head to my FLGS to get what I need. Happened with getting a Battlefoam case the other night. I needed one to ship my models to California in, but I didn't have enough time to wait for one to be shipped to me. Just so happened my FLGS had some in stock.

Other than that, yeah. I'll pick up the small things. Paint jars, glue, brushes.

Flachzange wrote:

Fiercegoldfish wrote:JI also think I've caught onto a sly little trick of his; ever since I started going to this particular store his tau inventory seems to have tripled, and it follows what my army seems to need. I say "man, I wish I had another broadside" and guess what shows up on the shelf the next day. My army is lacking a devilfish and suddenly 2 appear a few days later

More power to him for being attentive as to the needs of his customers Cant blame the guy.

Yeah. That sounds like good customer service to me.

I buy almost everything from my FLGS. With the exception of store credit on Warstore and Paypal money on eBay; I pretty much only buy from my FLGS. Yesterday I picked up a box of 10 Guardsmen just because! I wasn't pressured into buying anything - just felt the need for guardsmen for whatever reason.

My local store is a real hole in the wall, so anything I can do to stew up attention or support the store is really appreciated. Besides, I get a solid discount so it's not like I'd get stuff cheaper from anywhere else.

Yeah... my store offers a base 15% discount... 20% if you go above $100 and 25% if you go above $500. Couple that with them letting me and my friends occasionally stay after closing to finish up games and whatnot and yeah... I have no reason to buy from anywhere else.

Having seen the retail situation from all angles (GW trade sales, GW retail, Independent retail), I would say it's imperative to contribute to your FLGS. I saw the same downward spiral over and over when I was in trade sales: new store opens, full of promise; things go well, initial stock sells; newness wears off, sales taper; owners panic, offer big discounts on marquee ranges like GW; store stops making money, can't pay rent, closes. I saw that happen in no more than 3 months in one case verbatim from start to finish. The model of an FLGS is so different from even a sales-focused GW store; especially if they provide gaming space... It has to have the support of the people that game there, or it will fail.

At my store we don't really push sales, so to speak; when someone comes in and starts talking about how they can get something cheaper online, my usual response is a shrug followed by "go for it". Our regulars all get it; that if they want to have their awesome free game space complete with bins and bins of custom terrain, plenty of open-copy games to just sit and play, counter time and shop talk with staff on tap, a painting space, a great bitz bin to dig through, air-conditioning, a large community of gamers (many of whom will come out at random times and on short-notice for a game), and rolling reclining leather office chairs to sit in while they play... they should buy something once in a while.

To a bit, first I add one caveat to the above: candy and soda don't count toward the whole 'buy something once in a while' thing! Second, if you have an awesome back-door hookup for deals on product, good job. I mean that sincerely; since I'm the same. I paid retail for one model, once: an old metal chaos terminator lord from GW Glendale in like 1999-2000. All I ask is that you keep it to yourself while you're in the store. That guy holding a box of tactical marines doesn't have your hookup, and unless you're going to deal him in on it, shut up about it! Standing there gushing about how great of a deal you get and how only chumps pay retail only accomplishes the goal of making that guy feel like a chump, which will preclude him from buying that box of marines so as not to exhibit his new-found chumpitude, which kills my sale and makes me really not like you. Finally, don't ask me for a discount. I don't come to your house to hang out, then take the remote, turn the TV to what I want to watch, and ask you to make me a sandwich, too. Fully half of our space is given over to a free open gaming area, and we have to pay rent on that.

Ok, over.

-Dis.

disdainful wrote: Finally, don't ask me for a discount. I don't come to your house to hang out, then take the remote, turn the TV to what I want to watch, and ask you to make me a sandwich, too. Fully half of our space is given over to a free open gaming area, and we have to pay rent on that.

-Dis.

Don't you feel you may actually miss out on sales, because you aren't offering one? Some sort of special, to prevent customers from purchasing everything online at 20% off? I figured it would be worth it, considering most people would rather have product in hand and save on the shipping. I realize your arguments (and I'm not trying to start one) I'm sincerely curious. If it were me with the retail space, I would probably try and match that 20% in the hopes that people actually would travel to my shop. Of course, that's basing the general economic strategy of more sales at a lesser price.

I do my buying in both my FLGS and online. I like the owners of the gaming store I frequent, they are players too. Great guys, they offer 25% off of every 11th purchase. No other discounts, I do go out of my way to buy paint, brushes, green stuff, odds and ends there. The same distance away are 2 more stores that offer 10% off of all GW items as well, but I go there instead. They are never pushy, that is why I quit going to one store down the street. The one down the street looked at me like a wallet. One of their kids works there,and when buying stuff once he stated his dad asked him to point out the new MTG decks to me since they knew I had money.

As far as internet buying, I have swung a few e-bay items cheap, just stay low and sometimes no one else bids on it. I do not expect any store I frequent to match internet prices.

Hobby stores have it tough most of the time, and the profit margin on models needs to be more than people think. Its not like your orks get worn out and have to buy new ones every month. Many of these internet stores have incredibly low overhead. Selling out of their garage, no employees or extra power/water bills to pay.

Bless you FierceGoldFish, and the rest of you, for caring about your local game stores! My FLGS pays for use of the mall conference rooms every monday and holds a big all day gaming event every several months. That's expensive, and we want to support them through sales for all the great things they do for us. They even have boxes and boxes of store owned terrain we can use! The store manager is always willing to special order what I need, and occasionally gives me a discount. It's okay when he doesn't 'cause it means the store is getting a fair share of the purchase cost Frankly, if all the locals mail ordered most or all of their 40K and Warhammer, the store would go out of business and we'd have no place to play or even just hang out with the employees for an afternoon of talking hobby. So in the long run, buying local pays off big!

Emperor bless and cherish you!
Frankie

Dez wrote:

disdainful wrote: Finally, don't ask me for a discount. I don't come to your house to hang out, then take the remote, turn the TV to what I want to watch, and ask you to make me a sandwich, too. Fully half of our space is given over to a free open gaming area, and we have to pay rent on that.

-Dis.

Don't you feel you may actually miss out on sales, because you aren't offering one? Some sort of special, to prevent customers from purchasing everything online at 20% off? I figured it would be worth it, considering most people would rather have product in hand and save on the shipping. I realize your arguments (and I'm not trying to start one) I'm sincerely curious. If it were me with the retail space, I would probably try and match that 20% in the hopes that people actually would travel to my shop. Of course, that's basing the general economic strategy of more sales at a lesser price.

It doesn't necessarily follow that customers would buy more product though or that extra customers would come in. If you reduce your selling price by 20% how much do you think you have to increase sales volume by to keep existing profit margins?

It's a lot!

You cannot rely on hope, as it doesn't pay the bills.

Discounting works for some stores and not for others.

Gornall wrote:Yeah... my store offers a base 15% discount... 20% if you go above $100 and 25% if you go above $500. Couple that with them letting me and my friends occasionally stay after closing to finish up games and whatnot and yeah... I have no reason to buy from anywhere else.

If my store did this, I'd purchase from them.

I usually by my armies all at once, so I buy online. Yeah I should buy in-store, but I don't. So whatever. Paint and glue is all I buy. Until then, I'll wait for a store than knows what to do and do it right.

[EDIT] Oh yeah, one thing that pisses me off, is the food prices they have for stores. They're outrageous. I never see then sell, other than the employees taking them at cost, or the owner not paying at all.

I knew one store that did it right, 16 oz cans of soda for a buck. That's how it should be. Tacking on 15% to the price is just an insult. I'll go get a sandwiche, thank you very much.

I don't game at a local store, haven't in over 7 years.

I used to, and I would buy my gaming stuff there because it was a great store. It wasn't an $xx in yy months or no play though - or I'd never have got a game in.

All about the symbiosis. The gamer needs to support their local store, and the local store needs to give the local gamer a reason to come in.

Free gaming space isn't always enough, as most stores have this. Store Owner needs to take an interest in whats going on, either hosting or running a range of events to bring people in. And if you do the majority of your gaming in said store, I would say you do indeed have a duty to support it with your purchases. Many stores don't offer a discount because they can't afford it, simple as. What they do offer you though is FREE gaming space, which is priceless if you don't have the room to get your own board set up. There is more to value than a discount.

I buy a lot at my FLGS. I agree, it seems when I get into a new army (see my sig, it happens often lol) stuff for my new army starts miraculously appearing more often... I feel bad tho, I get bored with armys quick and swapped often until a few months ago. I'm basically stuck on my three armies, I love em!

But back on topic, yeah, i definitely pay where I play a lot. They give good discounts, and they order on demand, even tho orders sometimes get effed or the selection sucks

Ditto with zid.

My FLGS offers a 20% off discount and a $5 gift card for every $200 spent over time.

With that kind of deal why would I ever go anywhere else. In fact I'm pretty sure this game store is the reason at least 1 GWS closed down, it was only a 5 min drive from the GWS to the FLGS.

Also their gaming area while not very good (shares space with a RC car Track) stays open after close for us.

My local gaming store is a GW. I was perfectly happy supporting them until urm... about August, now I resent every penny I end up giving them. That of course didn't stop my buying a mega paint set before Christmas. But boy did I grumble about it. Thing was the majority of the paints online were sold out around then. I have clawed some money back though by selling the brushes on to a mate.

I have ended up slipping the wayland and maelstrom website addresses to a neighbour to save her grandson some money

disdainful wrote:and rolling reclining leather office chairs to sit in while they play...

Nice!! I've never seen this done in any LGS I have been to.

Also agree that it's bad form to walk into a LGS and start telling the customers where they can get things cheaper. People get store banned for that kind of thing.

GG

I buy everything I need from my FLGS. I know I pay more for product than I could get it on line.

What the store offers me...
Place to game
Terrain to use
Place to meet new gamers
Place to talk to others and see their work
Good Service'
Same Day purchase on most items
Discount on bulk purchases

What an online store offers me...
Discount
Good Service (sometimes)

For those of you advocating discounts on product from your store consider this. I am not sure on the price of retail space in your area or utilities so this is based on what I know about local stuff. Our local store is 1000 square feet and of that I would bet 600 of it is open for gaming at any time. Rent and utilities probably come in the $1500 range (I only know the actual rent figures).

Now I believe his GW discount is 35% which is fairly standard from what I have seen. So to just make his rent and utilities he has to sell about $4300 of product to make rent. Now if he gave a 20% discount on that same product, he would need to sell $10,000 worth of product to make rent. Now he sells more product than GW and games in general, but by asking for a discount you are essentially asking him to increase his sales by more than 50% to cover that 20%.

I think the problem is most people fail to realize that any discount that the FLGS offers comes out of his money not GWs. GW gets the same money no matter who you buy from. And while there are some great online vendors, most of them are occupying office or warehouse space and that is much cheaper than retail space. They also only use the space they need. They don't have a large chunk of their rent tied up in what is simply a good will measure to show his commitment to his customer.

I can game anywhere, at home, store, anyplace there's a willing opponent. So gaming at the store is nice but not a deal maker or breaker.

For me to keep buying at an LGS is customer service. I know they have to compete with the online stores that offer 20% off and they know it too. So instead of declaring a price war (like K-mart did against Wal-mart, and look what happened to K-mart), the LGS should cater to what online stores can't do: face to face customer service. Why fight the enemy (and I use this in a competitive sense) with their strength? Use their weakness to win the battle and customers!

Listening to me instead of pushing me. Asking probing and not interrogatory questions about what armies I play, what my interests are that they may have something that I may enjoy, etc. Listening to my needs when I say "I really need some more troops, heavies, paints, etc." and offering a solution to my dilemma. Filling that hobby need without pushing the "OMG these new MTG decks are the bomb! Buy a case because they're selling fast and will make you uber-gamer of the year!! If you don't buy this you're crazy!"

The sales desperate owner/employee who keeps pushing immediately turns me off. If I want to browse, I'll say so. If I want to buy, I'll poke around, find what I want, and go buy it and usually I'll tell them "I need 3 packages of movement trays and some glue." Then a kind suggestion (not push) of "hey, we've not only got pva but we've also got brand x, y, and z in stock too. Which would you like?"

I guess as I get older I expect more than just a "here's your ONE bottle of glue, you didn't buy that MTG case I suggested so don't let the door hit you in the behind on the way out". My LGS, no longer FLGS, did that a few times when the owner pushed (not suggested) MTG, Heroclix, D&D minis, etc. when I had stated I wasn't interested but I would let him know when I was each time I visited. Then when I would buy one $15 40k mini, he would almost grumble at the register! This happened two more times when I bought some brushes and glue. Why go to a store where you're treated like crap and pay full price plus tax? Fugeddabout it!

My LGS is a GW, but a very small one. Up till now, I've only purchased small things (army books, dice, templates) at the local GWs. But since I plan to start gaming twice a week at the small GW closest to me, I'm going to be giving them my business. I think it's only fair!

If I had an independent LGS I'd probably do it there; but I haven't found one close to me.

Dez wrote:

disdainful wrote: Finally, don't ask me for a discount. I don't come to your house to hang out, then take the remote, turn the TV to what I want to watch, and ask you to make me a sandwich, too. Fully half of our space is given over to a free open gaming area, and we have to pay rent on that.

-Dis.

Don't you feel you may actually miss out on sales, because you aren't offering one? Some sort of special, to prevent customers from purchasing everything online at 20% off? I figured it would be worth it, considering most people would rather have product in hand and save on the shipping. I realize your arguments (and I'm not trying to start one) I'm sincerely curious. If it were me with the retail space, I would probably try and match that 20% in the hopes that people actually would travel to my shop. Of course, that's basing the general economic strategy of more sales at a lesser price.

Most local game stores can't afford a 20% discount. The online stores have a much larger turn over on product, not to mention the owner/employees can spend their whole working day packing/shipping and selling rather than talking with/selling to customers.

No discount means losing big sales to the internet. Having a discount means your working for nothing. It's a catch-22 that has put most FLGS out of business.

One time I stayed open an extra 45 minutes so a guy could go through our magic cards as he had already built up quite a stack of single cards. After pricing out the stack (which came to over a hundred dollars) he goes through the cards and purchases two dollars worth. It was like a slap in the face, I was pissed and I let him know about it. I still see him in from time to time, and I don't care if he ever spends another penny.

It's not like every customer is a good customer, you know; there are some customers that actively hurt a business just by them being there. Even the money they spend (which they usually don't) is almost never enough to make up the difference.

Some great reading here, thank you for helping me to appreciate my LGS even more. Both offer good customer service as well as a discount to our club. One has food, and loves when I bring my 5 year old daughter to play

What could be other sales strategies some could use, as opposed to discounts? Have you tried giving away a free pot of paint with every box set purchased? I'm just wondering if offering incentives like that would be a way to increase sales. I know having a place to play as well as food (pizza place) is a huge draw for me.

I try to buy where I play, even if it is low value stuff like paint or terrain making material. I do get the occasional Battleforce or special order item as well.. (get 20% off on GW purchases over $50.. but that is because of a long term gaming club the store runs)

I am known in the store to be a big internet/used mini guy.. and the store HAS been known to recommend folks on a budget to talk to me for advice etc.. which makes me feel all warm and fuzzy but also a bit uncomfortable..

I usually pay where I play, within a 2 mile margin of error. Since I almost never play at the store instead of my basement, I do most of my buying online at work. When I do go to the store for tourneys or Apoc games I usually pick up a few things, but by and large it doesn't make sense to drive 30 minutes to spend more on paint or whatever. I generally don't NEED anything within 3-4 days, and if I do I generally just buy a few extra. Buy 5 bottles of Devlan Mud at 20% off, that's like getting 1 free compared to retail.

Local stores have a lot going for them, and our local store The Portal is a great place. A 5-10% discount though is hard to swallow though with rare exception, and they lack the selection of the Warstore, who are also awesome people. Practically speaking, I think that FLGS are going to have to evolve to offer online sales, and larger discounts. There doesn't seem to be much reason why a guy can operate out of his garage that he is already paying for and offer a 20% discount compared to a guy opperating out the back room of his game store that he already pays for and offer 20% off.

The change might make people sad, but stores need to realize that they no longer have to compete with the guys across town, they have to compete with people all over. That is going to change the way they do business, and those who refuse to meet the challenge will simply be destroyed by it. Simply insisting that people should spend more money on the same product is a sure way to run yourself out of business.
Those insisting that meeting new people and having gaming space are worth something should try charging for using the space. You would find out very quickly what it is worth to folks. Maybe you could start a club that pays 60$ a year per person to use the tables as much as you want. Maybe people would pay, maybe not. I would suspect though that people would still be gaming if the local store space removed tables, so it is a question of where you price it.