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I remember all the complaints about GW price rises last year, also pretty much across the board.
It was my first year on Dakka and the vets were saying it was an annual event.
GW seem unapologetic and indiscriminate about the issue.
They also halved the Orc Boyz contents recently for the same price. effectively a 100% rise. For plastic.
There is no comparison at this time between GW and, well, just about anyone when it comes to price rices.
They treat their customers with complete distain and disrespect and deserve all the criticism they receive on the issue.
Well somethings may have been missed but the rises looked pretty extensive across the whole range of products on both occassions.
They also raised the price of Army Books last Autumn as I recall.
Not sure I understand the reference to carpentry joints.
But let us say that in handling the price increase that Mantic nailed it while GW's fell apart at the seams.
Well, except the material cost of tin, while high, doesn't really have anything to do with the price of plastic ork boys.
And even if oil tripled in price, the price of plastic makes up such a small amount of the per unit cost of the plastics that you couldn't really justify half the models for the same amount.
Yes, GW prices are high and are getting higher. Everyone needs to decide if it is worth it. If they decide it's not, instead of just complain, they should spend their money and effort on getting an alternative game going in their locale.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/06/12 15:40:05
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I remember all the complaints about GW price rises last year, also pretty much across the board.
It was my first year on Dakka and the vets were saying it was an annual event.
Well, can't say. My army (Tau) had price increase in May 2009, and no price increases at all until this year. What little I've followed other armies, seems to be same.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Well I assumed from your statement that the GW price increases never happened.
As I said, Tau had no price increases I noticed between 2009 and now. So, whatever price increase took place in 2010 it cannot have been "across the board" price increase, can it?
That is true, which is all you needed to say and please forgive my vain attempt at levity.
I admit that in hindsight, "across the board" was too strong a phrase. But it does not alter the fact that the price increases were extensive, and pretty indiscriminate.
It also raises questions as to why Tau prices were held, if as was suggested the price of plastic/oil/snuff and sundry other materials cost more. Presumably Tau models must be made of some other material. My best guess is that Tau are in for a makeover so get your models before 2 years worth of price increases get walloped onto the models at a single stroke. At the risk that some of them will no longer be viable of course.
GW. Russian Roulette for the wallet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/12 16:46:54
GW prices are high and are getting higher. Everyone needs to decide if it is worth it. If they decide it's not, instead of just complain, they should spend their money and effort on getting an alternative game going in their locale.
That's all well and good for some reasons, but not for others as I'll explain (mainly because people don't necessarily want to move on, but feel they have little choice).
Edit: This turned out to be quite an epic post, so I'll hide it to save space. Those who want to read it...good luck
Spoiler:
For me the thing is if Mantic doubled the amount of models for the same price using a similiar(ish) material to Finecast (I can't see GW using an overtly expensive material, it bends and melts in harsh sunlight and Wells has embarked on major cost-cutting over recent years) then how much is Finecast's profit margin? Here's the latest interim financial report from GW followed by a quote from Wells in the 09-10 annual report:
...We know that, for a niche like ours, people who are interested in collecting fantasy miniatures will choose the best quality and be prepared to pay what they are worth.
So they are cutting costs across the board, 'making efficiancy savings' and still increasing their prices by as much as 30%+. Yes they have a right to set prices to whatever they feel them to be worth, we will either buy them or we won't, or, if your Wells, we WILL buy them at whatever price, no matter what they are actually worth. I wonder how much their sales brakedown % is between their stores, their online store, independents and discount retailers. I know I haven't bought anything from a GW store since before the last price increase.
I feel if anyone has invested a lot of time and, to a certain degree their soul, into GW over the years (like I have) then they have a right to complain, no one wants to see themself being priced out of something they love, much less be left with the feeling they are being exploited. It's natural for people to vent their frustrations - the internet just makes it easier. I just wonder at what point will it clearly become too much for a lot of people, I already feel sorry for kids and their parents trying to get into the hobby (as GW is still very much the face of wargaming in the UK) and if these price increases continue (which it looks like they are likely too) then it will be difficult to start the hobby as the cost of living increases for many people and the middle classes get continually squeezed.
It just feels to me that the price increases are becoming like a ransom demand. If I feel GW are exploiting people because they charge us, not on any material/manufacturing costs, but on a false premise that 'aesthetics = quality' then why should I be silent about it? If I feel a company is ripping people off then I'd be within my rights to feel obliged to pass on what I believed to be true - in order that people have a more informed choice to make. I can tell them from experience that Mantic's plastics/metals are no worse quality (materially) than GW, only GW have arguably stronger aesthetics/designs and are capable of better technologically aided designs/manufacture. They have already made the investment in these technologies and it is becoming obvious that they never do what they can to absorb costs - if they did we wouldn't see price increases like clockwork. Here's a quote from Tom Kirby in the 08-09 annual report:
...higher prices - enabling us to respond when costs increase dramatically as the price of tin did last summer; and, very importantly, a better balance between the price of our plastic
miniatures and our metal ones - for similar models prices ought to be similar and not less 'because they are plastic'.
Really Tom? Really?
The fact that GW sell their products at a vast discount to their employees (re-couping some wage costs in the process) and STILL make a profit on the cost of production then that leaves many questions running around inside my head. At some stage people will ask themselves: 'Is what I am being asked to pay a fair price?
At the moment I'd say no, it is not reflective of their manufacturing costs and any design investment/costs are their own business - it is their interest to pursue such technology to produce better models, not in material quality (this has hardly changed) but in design capability so that they keep their hobbyists engaged. Once such an investment is made, then they'll make good on it in little time or else scrap it if it becomes too debilitating.
I don't hate GW, but I am concerned about their business practice affecting the games/models I like - as it is I am looking for and actually finding better games to play & different, just as good/high quality, models to paint, which is ultimately what toy soldiers are for - to paint and game with. If fantasy wargamers still believed GW's games to be the best, their models to be the best and were kept at reasonable prices, then I doubt any competitors would have ever sprung up - as PP & Mantic have done.
It just seems like we're continually paying higher prices for their failing/struggling business model (especially in Asia and the US) and are not being charged a 'fair' price for what they produce. I could buy a car that looked like a Zonda, but if it was made out of aluminium instead of carbon fibre and the engine was made from lower grade metal and the seats out of papier mache then I'd expect it to be cheaper, not as expensive. To me this, along with not looking after their specialist games or maintaining true 'games in a box' (models, scenery etc), can only be damaging for GW. If veterans slowly stop playing, if more people introduce different games to their friends/at their clubs, then less money wll be going to GW - this is already happening, so by increasing their costs in such a ruthless fashion & displaying bad PR skills I fail to see how they will maintain customer loyalty.
At least Mantic are genuine in their pricing and more open and responsive in their games designs and plans. After all a game is a game and I'll probably enjoy playing so long as the rules are solid enough
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Well I assumed from your statement that the GW price increases never happened.
As I said, Tau had no price increases I noticed between 2009 and now. So, whatever price increase took place in 2010 it cannot have been "across the board" price increase, can it?
However many Tau units are now 33 to 50% higher than they were in 2005.
I don't remember the specific price increases last year. I do remember deciding to stop buying GW models and I have completed my Tyranid army with mostly secondhand units.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Well I assumed from your statement that the GW price increases never happened.
As I said, Tau had no price increases I noticed between 2009 and now. So, whatever price increase took place in 2010 it cannot have been "across the board" price increase, can it?
However many Tau units are now 33 to 50% higher than they were in 2005.
I don't remember the specific price increases last year. I do remember deciding to stop buying GW models and I have completed my Tyranid army with mostly secondhand units.
Surprisingly, the cost of plastic has increased almost 75% since 2005 (depending on the specific type of plastic that is used). And, the price of fuel has increased almost 75% since 2007. Shocking that these increases in cost need to be applied to someone... someone who buys the product... kind of like a customer.
We all know that, Shrike, but Mantic and many Historical companies, as well as WGF and Avatars of War are all capable of producing plastic figures for less than GW. GW is subsidising their shops via high prices.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
It also raises questions as to why Tau prices were held, if as was suggested the price of plastic/oil/snuff and sundry other materials cost more.
Presumably Tau models must be made of some other material.
My best guess is that Tau are in for a makeover so get your models before 2 years worth of price increases get walloped onto the models at a single stroke.
GW likes to have its prices standardized to at least some degree. Price increases seem to follow "lets increase our £30 vehicles price by 5%" pattern. If your army contains little or no models in that price category, congrats, your army managed to avoid price hike! (for now).
One area where they have clearly hiked their prices are boxed sets, Battleforces etc. For example, Tau Battleforce went from 80 euros to 95 euros! That's pretty steep. For most of the line, price increases seem generally follow inflation (which in UK is higher than EU or USA).
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Well I assumed from your statement that the GW price increases never happened.
As I said, Tau had no price increases I noticed between 2009 and now. So, whatever price increase took place in 2010 it cannot have been "across the board" price increase, can it?
However many Tau units are now 33 to 50% higher than they were in 2005.
I don't remember the specific price increases last year. I do remember deciding to stop buying GW models and I have completed my Tyranid army with mostly secondhand units.
Surprisingly, the cost of plastic has increased almost 75% since 2005 (depending on the specific type of plastic that is used). And, the price of fuel has increased almost 75% since 2007. Shocking that these increases in cost need to be applied to someone... someone who buys the product... kind of like a customer.
GW say their materials cost is under 3% of the retail cost of the kit. A valid price increase based on materials would have been 22.5p, not £5, for a £10 model.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Well I assumed from your statement that the GW price increases never happened.
As I said, Tau had no price increases I noticed between 2009 and now. So, whatever price increase took place in 2010 it cannot have been "across the board" price increase, can it?
However many Tau units are now 33 to 50% higher than they were in 2005.
I don't remember the specific price increases last year. I do remember deciding to stop buying GW models and I have completed my Tyranid army with mostly secondhand units.
Surprisingly, the cost of plastic has increased almost 75% since 2005 (depending on the specific type of plastic that is used). And, the price of fuel has increased almost 75% since 2007. Shocking that these increases in cost need to be applied to someone... someone who buys the product... kind of like a customer.
GW say their materials cost is under 3% of the retail cost of the kit. A valid price increase based on materials would have been 22.5p, not £5, for a £10 model.
Im assuming 99% of GW apologists doesnt realize that, or else LOL.
Anyways, OP, edit your title to be more specific and less misleading ( when i clicked it i thought they have price raise for everything )
could you change it to "Mantic Price rise on Metal"
It used to be 19 I think, for some random reason.
I remember thinking it was the best value for ork/orc torsos for conversions (Say for getting the best use out of the loota burna kits or the extra weapons that come with boyz squads).
Noisy_Marine wrote:MANTIC IS BECOMING GW!!! AHHHH!!!
I understand that some of their top execs used to work for GW.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Da Boss wrote:We all know that, Shrike, but Mantic and many Historical companies, as well as WGF and Avatars of War are all capable of producing plastic figures for less than GW. GW is subsidising their shops via high prices.
Because of GW's shops, I know tons of people who play 40k and Fantasy. Because of their shops, there are huge tournaments, conventions and events across the world.
While I have seen Flames of War being played, and the odd game of Warmachine in my area....I've never seen anyone collect or play with any other of the other "big" companies figures.
Face it...with out GW stores or FLGS, all this hobby would be is a bunch of fat smelly guys in their basement's playing with each other's little dolls.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/12 22:35:25
.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase.
I was surprised when someone complained and thought it was unlikely.
Quick check showed that it was indeed the case.
As Da Boss said, it was 19 Boyz reduced to 19.
I know it strictly ain't 50%, but even so 19 reduced to 10 for the same cash is not good imho.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Are you suggesting that GW gets fat smelly guys out of the basement and into GW stores?
Or in some way like a body deoderant advertisement GW transforms guys into amazing chick magnets?
Lynx doesn't work for me where the gals are concerned, maybe I need a Leman Russ or a Landraider in my pants.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/12 22:56:05
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
Lynx doesn't work for me where the gals are concerned, maybe I need a Leman Russ or a Landraider in my pants.
I think a Basilisk would work better lol
Firstly their effectively telling us to buy before they increase the price, something GW would never consider, secondly it's a notable price increase but only affects five kits out of their entire range (I think). Thirdly their apologetic about it and fourthly even with the price increase their still notably cheaper than GW's models while remaining made of Metal which in my opinion is much better than the citidel finecast crap GW've been using recently. I'm gonna stick with Mantic rather than GW in the future, I'd rather pay £30 for 60 Dwarfs than £80
Grimstonefire wrote:I am feeling quite confident that by this time next year I will be holding a new CD model in my hand (07/07/10). Someone can sig that if they want.
Ouze wrote:Are you sure this is accurate? It's 10 to a box, and I don't recall there ever being 20 in a box. I could absolutely be mistaken, though.
Orcs aren't maybe the best example. Imperial Guard on the other hand.
Pre-5th Ed Codex: AUD$50 for 20 Cadians/Catachans (so AUD$25 for 10).
Post-2011 Price Rise: AUD$48 for 10 Cadians/Catachans.
That means the price for Cadians/Catachans has gone up 92% in 3 years.
Well it is interesting to notice that since 2005, their prices have gone up about 50% (in average across the board) or more, however their sales figures have only increased about 25% or less, that tells you something...
xxvaderxx wrote:Well it is interesting to notice that since 2005, their prices have gone up about 50% (in average across the board) or more, however their sales figures have only increased about 25% or less, that tells you something...
Yeah, they're now riding the downslope of the GWS Laffer Curve.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I was surprised when someone complained and thought it was unlikely.
Quick check showed that it was indeed the case.
I didn't complain, I simply asked if you were sure since I didn't remember a box ever having 20, and in that same sentence, stated I wasn't sure myself. I've only played since 2008 so it's possible a box of 20 preceded me.
In any event, I wholeheartedly agree that going from 19 to 10 is super, super lame. Not just because of the nearly 100% price hike, but because a block of 10 are not especially useful on their own. It makes sense to package Space Marines in units of 10, but Orks really need to be in units of 15 minimum, in my opinion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/13 01:19:56
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Hi Ouze
Apologies but I was referring to a post on another forum at the time of the Orcs update. Someone complained about the reduction in contents. It seemed pretty outrageous that GW would do that.
I did not mean that you complained, but was confirming the point in response to your post
Backfire wrote:As I said, Tau had no price increases I noticed between 2009 and now.
Price change as of 28th May, 2011:
Codex Tau: 22.00 $ -> 24.75 $
Tau Battleforce 90.00 $ -> 110.00 $
Tau Crisis Suit: 22.25 $ -> 26.75 $
Tau Hammerhead 44.50 $ -> 49.50 $
Tau Skyray 44.50 $ -> 49.50 $
Don't have the exact numbers for the Finecast rereleases.
BTW, GW raises prices on introductory products like starter sets, Codices and army books every year to continue the successful policy of scaring off new customers.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/06/13 09:55:48
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