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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
HBMC - Yes i get your point, no offence taken. My justification for my kind of post is that there are a lot of people who have no conception of games outside of GW releases. I was one of them once!

So if they're after something 'sci-fi' or 'post-apoc' or 'gangs fighting' (or whatever) there is probably something else out there that can satisfy that itch.

But yes, if you like Necromunda because it is what it is (as someone who likes the game, loved it back in the day, I understand that) then yes they will have to wait (unless, of course, they just take the fan-supported route, which sounds like it is thriving)

Hey I used to have no concept of games outside of GW. As it happens the 40K RPGs are what introduced me to the larger world, as I sought out newer and newer minis to represent various things in the game. The Necromunda minis have also served me will in those games as well. I want more Necromunda because it is my fav GW game above anything they've ever made. Can you imagine modern day plastics for the game?

 treslibras wrote:
Who the frack cares about what YOU want? Are you the OP?

Pacific seemed to take my post as it was intended. You on the other hand decided to be an ass about it and put my post down to 'egocentrism'.

Good job.

I would rather say that Pacific is nicer than you. And I am sure you read my post to the end, so you saw what I really did, no? But enough OT.

 BrookM wrote:
I've heard from one freelance sculptor that GW / FW is actively searching for talent outside of Nottingham for these projects, especially amongst the ranks of third-party bits suppliers.

(if true)

And this, this is great news!

2018 will be a heck of a year if this happens!

I imagine they plan on visiting them at some point. I think GW finally realize that if you let your games lapse competitors will just swoop in with their own take on it and steal part of your market.

I imagine both are in the pipeline. However if we end up seeing a new version of Mordheim It'll be AoS Mordheim, and not so much the classic one.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I've heard from one freelance sculptor that GW / FW is actively searching for talent outside of Nottingham for these projects, especially amongst the ranks of third-party bits suppliers.

(if true)

And this, this is great news!

2018 will be a heck of a year if this happens!

Sounds like some advanced form of sarcasm to me.

 BrookM wrote:
I've heard from one freelance sculptor that GW / FW is actively searching for talent outside of Nottingham for these projects, especially amongst the ranks of third-party bits suppliers.

Interesting, but I wonder if all of these bits suppliers will be told to meet at a certain location late at night (which will turn out to be what appears to be a disused barn in the middle of no-where) and then.... (!)

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I imagine they plan on visiting them at some point. I think GW finally realize that if you let your games lapse competitors will just swoop in with their own take on it and steal part of your market.

I imagine both are in the pipeline. However if we end up seeing a new version of Mordheim It'll be AoS Mordheim, and not so much the classic one.

ie, it won't be Mordheim of any sort. Mordheim, maybe more than any other game in GW's catalogue, is the setting.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I imagine both are in the pipeline. However if we end up seeing a new version of Mordheim It'll be AoS Mordheim, and not so much the classic one.

If so, I'd be much less likely to buy into the "new" Mordheim.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:
ie, it won't be Mordheim of any sort. Mordheim, maybe more than any other game in GW's catalogue, is the setting.

Yes, exactly! I love the aesthetic of a bunch of renaissance looking warriors poking around a dead city. It would not appeal to me near as much of the warband were made of Stormcase, Bloodbound, or Fyreslayers.

I won't say absolutely not, as GW may surprise us but I'm not going to commit to it at this point, either.

I don't know. Bloodbowl has not been AoS-ified, so why would they do it to Mordheim? That makes little sense. I think it is more likely that if they re-release it, it will be true to its original form. Just with updated miniatures and rules and 100% more expensive.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I don't know. Bloodbowl has not been AoS-ified, so why would they do it to Mordheim? That makes little sense. I think it is more likely that if they re-release it, it will be true to its original form. Just with updated miniatures and rules and 100% more expensive.

Blood Bowl has the benefit of being a pseudo-WHF comedy alternate reality, whereas Mordheim is a historical event in the real WHF setting that GW inexplicably felt they had to make AoS a direct, unequivocal continuation of, and which they considered enough of a threat to AoS to utterly destroy lest anyone be tempted to stick with it rather than drink the new brand of kool aid(and as far as I'm concerned, the "joke" rules in the old-setting AoS warscrolls are enough evidence that making the old setting unpopular/awkward was the intent of blowing up the WHW).

Now to you, or I, or a vaguely-sane hobo on the street who only talks to his tin of beans with a face drawn on it in marker pen called Wilburforce a couple of times a month, that may not seem like a huge difference, but the collective mindset at GWHQ seems to vary on any particular day between happy bumbling obliviousness, petty paranoia, and a Downfall-esque bunker mentality - through that particular looking glass, it might never occur to them the setting was important to people, or they might change it/refuse to do it because the idea of a WHF-setting skirmish game with a built-in evangelical fanbase triggers them like a Tumblr blogger at a Trump rally when they want to promote AoS a setting which is - charitably speaking - presently very underdeveloped, or they might just genuinely be oblivious to the idea that people want to see it come back.

I'd like to see it come back, I'd buy the hell out of it if it did, but despite the positive moves GW have been making of late they burned a lot of goodwill with their backalley stabbing of WHF and I'm not convinced there's anyone left in a position of authority at GW who actually gives enough of a gak about WHF to push through its Specialist Games intact.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I don't know. Bloodbowl has not been AoS-ified, so why would they do it to Mordheim? That makes little sense. I think it is more likely that if they re-release it, it will be true to its original form. Just with updated miniatures and rules and 100% more expensive.

Blood Bowl has the benefit of being a pseudo-WHF comedy alternate reality, whereas Mordheim is a historical event in the real WHF setting that GW inexplicably felt they had to make AoS a direct, unequivocal continuation of, and which they considered enough of a threat to AoS to utterly destroy lest anyone be tempted to stick with it rather than drink the new brand of kool aid(and as far as I'm concerned, the "joke" rules in the old-setting AoS warscrolls are enough evidence that making the old setting unpopular/awkward was the intent of blowing up the WHW).

Now to you, or I, or a vaguely-sane hobo on the street who only talks to his tin of beans with a face drawn on it in marker pen called Wilburforce a couple of times a month, that may not seem like a huge difference, but the collective mindset at GWHQ seems to vary on any particular day between happy bumbling obliviousness, petty paranoia, and a Downfall-esque bunker mentality - through that particular looking glass, it might never occur to them the setting was important to people, or they might change it/refuse to do it because the idea of a WHF-setting skirmish game with a built-in evangelical fanbase triggers them like a Tumblr blogger at a Trump rally when they want to promote AoS a setting which is - charitably speaking - presently very underdeveloped, or they might just genuinely be oblivious to the idea that people want to see it come back.

I'd like to see it come back, I'd buy the hell out of it if it did, but despite the positive moves GW have been making of late they burned a lot of goodwill with their backalley stabbing of WHF and I'm not convinced there's anyone left in a position of authority at GW who actually gives enough of a gak about WHF to push through its Specialist Games intact.

Mordheim was also always apart from WHFB, being set hundreds of years before the time of WHFB in which Mordheim no longer existed.
GW absolutely does not want to destroy the Old World setting, given continueing references to it in AoS, a whole bunch of video games set in the Old World and the continued publishing of the BL books that were set in the Old World. GW may have abandoned WHFB, but they have not entirely abandoned the Old World. Just because they wanted to start on a new project does not mean that they no longer care for their old work. When used for video games, or specialist games like Mordheim, using the Old World setting doesn't conflict with AoS in any way. Why wouldn't they use the Old World setting for it? Sure, they could seize upon as an opportunity to further develop AoS, as they did with Warhammer Quest, but in the case of Mordheim, that would not work. Unlike for Warhammer Quest, the Old World setting is intrinsical to Mordheim. It would be impossible to bring back Mordheim with an AoS setting, that would be an entirely different game, and I am pretty damn sure GW is fully aware of that.

I do not share your opinion about the way things are going at GW. I do not think you have ever been to GW's HQ and so you have no qualification at all to speak about the collective mindset there.

anab0lic wrote:
We have had a WarHammer Quest remake, The new Bloodbowl is on the way... I'm pretty sure we are gonna see one or maybe even both of these much loved skirmish games make a comeback in 2017.

What do you think?

Honestly with blood bowl being re-made i was hoping Warhammer Fantasy may even come. I mean i can hope right :(. They still have most of the models and they may fix some bad blood if they just re-visited Fantasy while doing AoS. Honestly i wouldn't hate AoS so much if Fantasy was still allowed even to play in a 'dead' format. Just let me play WHF in the freaking store. Is that really so much to ask?

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Not everyone needs to be breastfed by GW. Plenty of people doing their own thing within the worlds given. DIY!

Sure. I can buy OOP models and make terrain.

Short of finding wife, raising kids and somehow making sure they want it I can't make opponents out of thin air. And even that's long long process.

Face the fact. It's lot easier to find players to actively supported game. Good luck trying to find opponents for 1st edition of warhammer. Not a lot.

You do know not everybody lives in huge cities? I would struggle to find opponent for currently supported GW games like 40k 7th ed let alone necromunda.

Even if you live away from large cities, you have the opportunity to influence your own gaming communities. I've lost track of the amount of times I've suggested, or had it suggested to me, "hey, do you want to try this game..?"

I've found that the vast majority of gamers, especially ones that you are friends with rather than just associates, will usually come together and follow a game for 6-12 months and give it a proper go.

As for Necromunda...

There isn't really a good substitute for it that I know of.

- Infinity isn't campaign-focused, so not really the same genre (campaign development is the whole point of Necromunda)
- same with Rogue Stars
- Frostgrave only has one character you develop (or is it two? The apprentice as well) which makes it very different
- This is not a test seems the closest in that it has detailed campaign rules, and the setting is also quite Necromunda-ish. Probably the best replacement so far.

And Mordheim...

I would love if this came back in an AoS background. Contrary to what some people think there's plenty of room for gritty realism in AoS, depending on which realm you set it in and who the participants are. Just compare the quite cartoony 40k to the much more gritty 30k. Forge World could do the exact same thing with an AoS Mordheim. I wouldn't be opposed to Old World Mordheim but it isn't necessary IMO.

Why do you need a substitute for either game? Both are free and there are plenty of companies GW and beyond that sell models and terrain to use.

A new edition (not version ala WHQuest) would be welcome though. Both games would benefit with terrain produced to the current standards that GW is capable of.

 Mymearan wrote:
As for Necromunda...

There isn't really a good substitute for it that I know of.

- Infinity isn't campaign-focused, so not really the same genre (campaign development is the whole point of Necromunda)
- same with Rogue Stars
- Frostgrave only has one character you develop (or is it two? The apprentice as well) which makes it very different
- This is not a test seems the closest in that it has detailed campaign rules, and the setting is also quite Necromunda-ish. Probably the best replacement so far.

And Mordheim...

I would love if this came back in an AoS background. Contrary to what some people think there's plenty of room for gritty realism in AoS, depending on which realm you set it in and who the participants are. Just compare the quite cartoony 40k to the much more gritty 30k. Forge World could do the exact same thing with an AoS Mordheim. I wouldn't be opposed to Old World Mordheim but it isn't necessary IMO.

Maybe it's not necessary for you, but not everyone is happy to settle for the Hollywood remake where Mordheim is "AoS but gritty and realistic", instead of a mad, surrealist, creeping, twisted, gothic horror that drew a large part of its appeal both from the specifics of the place and from the events of the wider setting.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
As for Necromunda...

There isn't really a good substitute for it that I know of.

- Infinity isn't campaign-focused, so not really the same genre (campaign development is the whole point of Necromunda)
- same with Rogue Stars
- Frostgrave only has one character you develop (or is it two? The apprentice as well) which makes it very different
- This is not a test seems the closest in that it has detailed campaign rules, and the setting is also quite Necromunda-ish. Probably the best replacement so far.

And Mordheim...

I would love if this came back in an AoS background. Contrary to what some people think there's plenty of room for gritty realism in AoS, depending on which realm you set it in and who the participants are. Just compare the quite cartoony 40k to the much more gritty 30k. Forge World could do the exact same thing with an AoS Mordheim. I wouldn't be opposed to Old World Mordheim but it isn't necessary IMO.

Maybe it's not necessary for you, but not everyone is happy to settle for the Hollywood remake where Mordheim is "AoS but gritty and realistic", instead of a mad, surrealist, creeping, twisted, gothic horror that drew a large part of its appeal both from the specifics of the place and from the events of the wider setting.

It would be Mordheim: The Edition I Do Not Buy.



Which is saying a whole heck of a lot - Mordheim is nearly my favorite game in the whole world - I love the game to pieces.

A new Mordheim would see me spending more than $5 on GW product for the first time in four years - unless it is tied to AoS - a game that I hate even more than I love Mordheim.

Heck, I was planning on running a Mordheim game starting this month - but got over ruled by a nerd girl conspiracy in my group. (They wanted... GorkaMorka... I blame Fury Road.)

Given that my good lady was one of the ringleaders of that conspiracy... GorkaMorka it is. (I gave her that game - I have only myself to blame.)

The Auld Grump


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I've heard from one freelance sculptor that GW / FW is actively searching for talent outside of Nottingham for these projects, especially amongst the ranks of third-party bits suppliers.

(if true)

And this, this is great news!

2018 will be a heck of a year if this happens!

I Want To Believe.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
As for Necromunda...

There isn't really a good substitute for it that I know of.

- Infinity isn't campaign-focused, so not really the same genre (campaign development is the whole point of Necromunda)
- same with Rogue Stars
- Frostgrave only has one character you develop (or is it two? The apprentice as well) which makes it very different
- This is not a test seems the closest in that it has detailed campaign rules, and the setting is also quite Necromunda-ish. Probably the best replacement so far.

And Mordheim...

I would love if this came back in an AoS background. Contrary to what some people think there's plenty of room for gritty realism in AoS, depending on which realm you set it in and who the participants are. Just compare the quite cartoony 40k to the much more gritty 30k. Forge World could do the exact same thing with an AoS Mordheim. I wouldn't be opposed to Old World Mordheim but it isn't necessary IMO.

Maybe it's not necessary for you, but not everyone is happy to settle for the Hollywood remake where Mordheim is "AoS but gritty and realistic", instead of a mad, surrealist, creeping, twisted, gothic horror that drew a large part of its appeal both from the specifics of the place and from the events of the wider setting.

It would be Mordheim: The Edition I Do Not Buy.



Which is saying a whole heck of a lot - Mordheim is nearly my favorite game in the whole world - I love the game to pieces.

A new Mordheim would see me spending more than $5 on GW product for the first time in four years - unless it is tied to AoS - a game that I hate even more than I love Mordheim.

Heck, I was planning on running a Mordheim game starting this month - but got over ruled by a nerd girl conspiracy in my group. (They wanted... GorkaMorka... I blame Fury Road.)

Given that my good lady was one of the ringleaders of that conspiracy... GorkaMorka it is. (I gave her that game - I have only myself to blame.)

The Auld Grump

To be fair, GorkaMorka is almost as much fun as Mordheim, and giving your good lady what she wants is always more fun than what happens if you don't, hah

 Yodhrin wrote:


To be fair, GorkaMorka is almost as much fun as Mordheim, and giving your good lady what she wants is always more fun than what happens if you don't, hah

I have fond memories of GorkaMorka.

The game that drove me to love the noble art of 'hacking things apart to find new junky ways of putting them together again'.

Gorkamorka needed more than one race on release, by the digganobs and the others came out interest had waned.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I don't know. Bloodbowl has not been AoS-ified, so why would they do it to Mordheim? That makes little sense. I think it is more likely that if they re-release it, it will be true to its original form. Just with updated miniatures and rules and 100% more expensive.

It has not aos-fied yet ease them into it with first the bigger bases then Bam! release Bloodbowl AoS Supplement!

 notprop wrote:
Why do you need a substitute for either game? Both are free and there are plenty of companies GW and beyond that sell models and terrain to use.

Indeed and its fairly easy to proxy most gangs as well, I have a Van Saar gang made out of Victoria miniatures Guardsmen for example.

One of the local clubs held both a Necromunda and a Mordheim campaign in the last 12 months or so. Necromunda didn't hold up as well as I remembered it but Mordheim was better (although we did house rule some stuff).

IF (and its an if so large that it has its own gravity well) GW can take the original rules and intelligently update them, for example by taking their cue from the existing community updates, then GW could have some excellent games. This is not what I expect to happen.

I never played much of Gorkamorka, even though I bought it with the last of my student grant when it was released (a very poor choice from a nutritional perspective )

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

One of the local clubs held both a Necromunda and a Mordheim campaign in the last 12 months or so. Necromunda didn't hold up as well as I remembered it but Mordheim was better (although we did house rule some stuff).

Out of curiosity, which edition of the rules did you use?
The Original rulebook has some wierdnesses and the "Living Rulebook" (very similar to the edition released in print as "Underhive") didn't address alot of imbalances.

I strongly encourage (as I have before) folks looking into Necromunda to use the "Necromunda Community Edition" from yaktribe.org It's not a massive difference, but it tweaks virtually all the issues and imbalances that were in the earlier "official" editions. It also puts changes in red ink so you can go back and see what the changes were.

 Eilif wrote:

I strongly encourage (as I have before) folks looking into Necromunda to use the "Necromunda Community Edition" from yaktribe.org It's not a massive difference, but it tweaks virtually all the issues and imbalances that were in the earlier "official" editions. It also puts changes in red ink so you can go back and see what the changes were.

That's what we were using. The game itself just wasn't as good as I remember it, shooting is just too good (despite the relatively low weapon strength and scenery heavy boards).

It could be you were playing it too much like... other games. I think there shouldn't be much shooting happening at all outside Overwatch, and that has a hefty BS penalty. Most models should be out of LOS or Hidden at all times with the gangs trying to outmaneuver each other and get the alpha strike at short range. Remember that you can be untargetable until you're within 3".

Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

I strongly encourage (as I have before) folks looking into Necromunda to use the "Necromunda Community Edition" from yaktribe.org It's not a massive difference, but it tweaks virtually all the issues and imbalances that were in the earlier "official" editions. It also puts changes in red ink so you can go back and see what the changes were.

That's what we were using. The game itself just wasn't as good as I remember it, shooting is just too good (despite the relatively low weapon strength and scenery heavy boards).

lord_blackfang wrote:It could be you were playing it too much like... other games. I think there shouldn't be much shooting happening at all outside Overwatch, and that has a hefty BS penalty. Most models should be out of LOS or Hidden at all times with the gangs trying to outmaneuver each other and get the alpha strike at short range. Remember that you can be untargetable until you're within 3".

Shooting is very powerful in Necromunda. We haven't found it to be unmanageable, but that might be because we play with a table absolutely crammed with terrain. I tell folks it's better to play on a 3'x3' (or even 2.5x2.5) table rather than a larger table if it means that you can really scrunch the scenery together.

A new 'mordheim' that was in the original setting but used the 'age of sigmar' rules would be... everything I had wanted from 'age of sigmar.'

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Why do you need a substitute for either game? Both are free and there are plenty of companies GW and beyond that sell models and terrain to use.

Indeed and its fairly easy to proxy most gangs as well, I have a Van Saar gang made out of Victoria miniatures Guardsmen for example.

One of the local clubs held both a Necromunda and a Mordheim campaign in the last 12 months or so. Necromunda didn't hold up as well as I remembered it but Mordheim was better (although we did house rule some stuff).

IF (and its an if so large that it has its own gravity well) GW can take the original rules and intelligently update them, for example by taking their cue from the existing community updates, then GW could have some excellent games. This is not what I expect to happen.

I never played much of Gorkamorka, even though I bought it with the last of my student grant when it was released (a very poor choice from a nutritional perspective )

You, sir, have just convinced me to do a neo-Victorian Van Saar gang using Victoria Miniatures models.

My Morkers for GorkaMorka are likewise steampunk in nature. (My big wagon got its start as a cheap toy train at Family Dollar....)

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Why do you need a substitute for either game? Both are free and there are plenty of companies GW and beyond that sell models and terrain to use.

Indeed and its fairly easy to proxy most gangs as well, I have a Van Saar gang made out of Victoria miniatures Guardsmen for example.

One of the local clubs held both a Necromunda and a Mordheim campaign in the last 12 months or so. Necromunda didn't hold up as well as I remembered it but Mordheim was better (although we did house rule some stuff).

IF (and its an if so large that it has its own gravity well) GW can take the original rules and intelligently update them, for example by taking their cue from the existing community updates, then GW could have some excellent games. This is not what I expect to happen.

I never played much of Gorkamorka, even though I bought it with the last of my student grant when it was released (a very poor choice from a nutritional perspective )

You, sir, have just convinced me to do a neo-Victorian Van Saar gang using Victoria Miniatures models.

My Morkers for GorkaMorka are likewise steampunk in nature. (My big wagon got its start as a cheap toy train at Family Dollar....)

The Auld Grump

Orks and grimy steampunk is like chocolate and peanut butter - I still have a Doomwheel kit lying around somewhere I had planned to use as the basis for a "Penny Farvin" warbike for my Morkers Nob

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I think there shouldn't be much shooting happening at all outside Overwatch, and that has a hefty BS penalty.

That would require unfeasible quantities of terrain, nearly a solid board.

Mordheim has a similar design from a mechanics perspective but it works a lot better, if my recent experience is a guide.