Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey folks!

I have a friend who is too stubborn to sign up for an account on Dakka.

He plays Necrons, Tyranids, and Vanilla Marines (Dark Angels I suppose). He wants to ramp up his competitive ability, and it all starts with the list you run - he doesn't run particularly competitive lists by any means in any of the armies he plays - for example, he'll take two monoliths, a unit of destroyers, a lord on a destroyer body, 3 units of warriors and some scarabs.....typical Necron stuff, but not nearly as disgusting as triple monoliths with a C'Tan escort and dual warrior squads hiding behind the wall of living armor.

I'm going to try homing him in on his Tyranids for competitive play, since Necrons and Dark Angels (or Vanilla Marines) both seem like inferior choices. I think dual/triple+ Tervigon lists with drop-pod zoeys are about as brutal as they get, but I don't really see anything like that being run. I've also seen the youtube videos with the nine hive guard + dakkafex shooty army. He has plenty of warriors, so some hive guard conversions may be in order...

But what I need help with is this:

What's about the most disgusting that you can build out of a Tyranid list? The three relevant point levels are 1500, 1850, and 2k - and ideally, the 1850 and 2k should both be scaled up from the respective lower point list. I don't envision that Tyranids have an "auto-win" list because I've yet to meet a Tyranid list that scared me, and I don't play FOTM or "Tier 1" competitive lists....but something themed that would need careful handling to manage, with the ability to be competitive as the player behind the list learns its nuances and with the ability to bring an answer to pretty much anything in 40k if used correctly.

Thanks!

I think the "core" of any competitive Tyranid army is at least 1 or 2 troops tervigons, and 3 units of 2-3 Hive Guard. The "base" HQ is a Tyranid Prime, because they can increase the effectiveness and durability of any unit you add them to.

At 2k I think the "Tyranid Death Star" is very viable. This consists of a Tyrant w/ the preferred enemy abililty, paroxysm, a few Tyrant Guard, and a Tyranid prime.

There's no such as an "auto-win" list for any army, anyways.

From the experiences I've seen/heard about the most competitive 'Nid lists consist of Hive Guard and spod'ing Zoanthropes coupled withTyranid Primes. Genestealers + Broodlords (using the Hypnotic Gaze power to nullify hdden power fists etc.) is pretty dirty. YMMV however, as I'm much more used to offering Guard advice in these forums.

Also, good to see you back Dash!

L. Wrex

Never left, I'm just out of the limelight.

Well after fighting 2 nasty nid armies this weekend here is some of my opinions on nids.

Spore mines are not useless. For 10 to 30 points nids can wreck the deployment of infiltrators and dawn of war. They also disrupt scout moves. They don't give up KP, so they are not a liablity. Many lists have a few extra points, taking 1 to 3 spore mine groups with a single spore mine.

Biovores are very useful against opponents that can be pinned, and even more useful against hordes. I know nids have a LOT of anti infantry capability, but nids have very little that is long ranged, and sometimes range is NEEDED. Furthermore the best nid heavy support is the Trygon, but they are expensive. So damn expensive that 3 of them is spending a bit too much in a 2k game, while a single 45 point biovore is cheap.

Speaking of Trygons....those F*kers are fleet with 6 base attacks at WS5. Got to take 1, maybe 2, but 3 gets real damn expensive. I would just go with 2 basic trygons myself.

As far as troops go they are all good. If you are going to termagaunt/Tervigon go all out. If you are going to go with stealers and warriors they work well together. Hormagaunts are not bad either, but they need a synapse that can keep up or reliably deep strike

Dash:

I've been trying to put together a 'Spod list...I can't quite get it to work properly (can't get it to come in dependably "en masse") but I've found one lovely element that you might find a way to make work:

20 Termagants w/devourers in Mycetic Pod w/twin-linked Deathspitter (250pts.)

If you can pair it with a Lictor, you can bring it down with pin-point accuracy. It gets an insane amount of shooting at close range (60 s4 AP- from the devourers, 3 S5 Ap5 twin-linked from the Deathspitter, 6 S6 Ap- from the ripper tentacles if you're within 6"), has enough wounds to survive cursory attention in the shooting phase, and is now smack in the middle of the enemy deployment zone next turn to tie up a dangerous shooting unit or to scoot n' shoot some more.

willydstyle wrote:I think the "core" of any competitive Tyranid army is at least 1 or 2 troops tervigons, and 3 units of 2-3 Hive Guard. The "base" HQ is a Tyranid Prime, because they can increase the effectiveness and durability of any unit you add them to.

At 2k I think the "Tyranid Death Star" is very viable. This consists of a Tyrant w/ the preferred enemy abililty, paroxysm, a few Tyrant Guard, and a Tyranid prime.

I've always hard bad luck with tervigons, they should take wounds, not be unable to make babies forever if you roll doubles, you are basically betting your win on the chances that you won't blow your O rings. Not that I dont use them, but relying on them to do anything but FNP things is usually not a good idea.

It really is a shame that tyranids have so many fun units (y. stealers, venomthropes, lictors, pyrovores, ect.) that can't be used because of using an elites slot or being overpriced.

My staples are

HT or swarmlord with guard
-3 units of anti tank as elites, if its a friendly game you can probably get away with 2 and some yargarbl stealers
-2 units of 8 to 10 poisoned genestealers
-at least 2 trygons

Dash, I think a good question here is what kind of army do you think your buddy would like to play? Would he like a monster mash or a decent number of gribblies? Would he like to play a slower steamroller list or something more aggressive?

Id go with a basic Prime, 2 units of Zoanthropes (these dont need poda) and genestealers with broodlords.

gorgon wrote:Dash, I think a good question here is what kind of army do you think your buddy would like to play? Would he like a monster mash or a decent number of gribblies? Would he like to play a slower steamroller list or something more aggressive?

Well, I think he wants mostly to play with the models that he has....of which I don't have a count. I figured that I would try soliciting help on what an effective army could entail, then helping him build/convert what he has to match it.

An interesting (and very scary option when played right) is a Swarmlord, Tyrant with Hive Commander (no Guard for either of them - just hide them and move them through cover as much as possible) coupled with Zoanthrope (+Spore) spam and mass of Genestealers with Toxin Sacks arriving via Outflank (at +2 to arrive, with a re-roll to determine table edge). Sprinkle with Harpies or Mawlocs to taste, also arriving via Deep Strike.

Between that lot, you should be able to utterly sweep away everything within 12-17" of your opponent's board edge and devastate key armoured targets with a terrifying turn 2 alpha strike that few opponents can recover from.

The beauty of this strategy is that all you need to do is protect the Tyrant/Swarmlord until Turn 2 (easily done on a board with any semblance of cover...).

Money wise it isnt cheap, and your score will get hammered for playing a few nasty lists.
But on to stuff that matters.

Tervigon - talons, catalyst - 180

3 thropes - pod with cluster - 230
3 thropes - pod with cluster - 230
3 hive guard - 150

10 termigants - 50
10 termigants - 50
Tervigon - talons, catalyst - 180
Tervigon - talons, catalyst - 180

Trygon - Adrenal glands - 210

1,460

Leaves you 40 points of room to play with.


+390 points (1,850)

Simply remove talons from 2 tervigons or cluster from the pod to save 10 points.
Add in 2 more basic trygons.

+150 points (2,000)

15 Gargoyles - 90
10 gargoyles - 60



Useage wise: simply let the trygons do the damage here.
Keep them supported with catalyst to keep the FNP going, without it they will die too quickly to massed firepower.

Thropes have a basic use here, common tactic, but pretty decent, may want to tinker with the 2-1 ratio on thropes / hive guard (somtimes ive found 1-2 better)
But that will take a quick playtest to find out what you prefer.

Other than supporting the trygons, the tervigons need to stick close to them to supply FNP.
You will want to have a wall of spawned termigants infront of them to soak up shooting.
At higher points use the gargs as shields for the trygons, and hunt down unarmoured pain units (guard vets for example)

The starting termigants can be held back, or placed if needed at the start of the game.
They are simply here to allow the tervigons.


If you dislike triple trygons, try dropping one for a tyrannofex, or yet another tervigon. (you do lose a big punch though, and people dont get as worried)


Anyways, hope that helps to some degree.

Dashofpepper wrote:

gorgon wrote:Dash, I think a good question here is what kind of army do you think your buddy would like to play? Would he like a monster mash or a decent number of gribblies? Would he like to play a slower steamroller list or something more aggressive?

Well, I think he wants mostly to play with the models that he has....of which I don't have a count. I figured that I would try soliciting help on what an effective army could entail, then helping him build/convert what he has to match it.

cool part about bugs is if he buys new he can make things like ripper swarms and little bugs out of lots of little extra claws and bits, a few magnets and he can convert carnifexes to tervi's and trygons to tyrannofexes, if hes clever he could have his whole codex full with minimal actual models bought

I think the problem is Tyranids don't have that internet list that spams the crap out of a unit that is clearly under priced or extremely tough to take down.

The closest thing that resembles this is a Tervigon spam list that, for the reasons Grundz outlined above, can be extremely unlucky leaving you with 3 or 4 offensively useless monstrous creatures (3 attacks, ws3, only strength 5) and the equivalent of a squad or two of WS3 S3 T3 A1 Ork boyz.

As a tournament player you would know that you need to play 3-5 games and losing just one of them can leave you off the top of the leader board. Odds are you are going to roll poorly at some point (got to love rolling 1, 1, 2 with them which has happened a few time already), and I dont want to base my game around luck. If a Tervigon breeds all game that's great, but I don't want to solely rely on it. Finally, in kill point games, you are going to get rocked with squads of 8 or 9 termagaunts popping up.

With that said, I think there are only 2 units that are a staple unit. Those two units being Tervigons (1 or 2 [not 3+], depending on the army size) and Hive Guard.

The advantage of a Tervigon (to me at least) is in it's ability to score (forcing opponents to shoot it), provide synapse (18" with its spell) as a troop choice, and feel no pain/onslaught. You may want to get some Gargoyles with them to give them cover saves.

Hive Guard on the other hand are arguably the best anti transport unit in the game - 30" range, 6 S8 shots, LoS not required, no cover unless smoke/KFF/flat out (or touching something that does give 50%) - plus 2 wounds T6 for only 50 points.

The thing with the rest of the Tyranid units is they all have special abilities and rules. Genestealers outflank, Hormagaunts have a reliable run, Termagaunts can be spawned out of tervigons, Raveners can potentially charge 24", Warriors have boneswords, etc. Everything is specialized, and you have to look at what they can do and how they can work with one another. It is common to have, say, a Tervigon use onslaught (one unit may run and then shoot in shooting phase) on a Hive Tyrant so he can use paroxysm (Ws/Bs 1 on one enemy unit for a full turn) and old adversary (6" to hit rerolls for all allies) to aid the Hormagaunts that are about to charge. Now the Hormagaunts hit on 3's, rerolling while being hit on 5's back.

That is why giving you a perfect list is difficult. It is hard to theorize this sort of thing without actually playing and or trying it out yourself.

What I will do is give you a list of what you likely will not use based on my own opinion as well as other Nid players in general:

HQ:
Parasite of Mortrex - He's alright but expensive

Elites:
Pyrovores - take up an Elite slot (reserved for Zoanthropes and Hive Guard) and suck.
Lictor - take up an elite slot and their rules simply do not work in a reliable way

Venomthropes, Deathleaper, Ymargls - Are actually good, but take up an Elite slot unfortunately.

Troops:
Warriors - are a jack of all trades that really dont do anything well, aside from boneswords which make them expensive instant S8 targets to be instant killed
Rippers - They get a 3+ cover save...other than that, it should be obvious.

Fast:
Shrikes - Same as Warriors
Sky Slasher - Same as Rippers
Harpy - T5 MC with a 4+ Save. It's really neat and has some killer abilities, but would be difficult to keep alive I think.

Heavy:
Old One Eye - Terrible and costs more than a Land Raider.


Good luck and hope this helped.

Night lords - Just to tie in on your comment on the harpy;

They arent all that bad, granted thier stats let them down, but you can use them for mobile tank hunting, or unarmoured troop hunting.
Thier speed means they can get where they need to be.
People also underestimate them, meaning it wont get shot if something bigger is in range.


You can shield it with gargs, but your wasting points for a minimal effect.

I agree that Harpies are alright with their rules. I hoped to get the point across that they had some use but that he's not likely to use them. I just think they fit into a very specific out of the norm army list, that's all.

The Harpy stinks.
I have never seen one last past turn 2, and well over 75% of the games I have used one it dies on turn 1.
ymmv
I regularly use warriors with bonesword/lashships + Deathspitters and commonly a Prime joined. In fact, I made regional 'Ard Boys because of a brood like that--a blood Angels assault terminator squad assaulted my warriors and were slaughtered.

Other than that, basically +1 to Night Lords

About the Parasite . . . I agree that one can be fun.

Wassup Dash!

I've been terrorizing RTTs with this 1500 nids list.

tervigon adrenal toxin 180

2x hive guard 100
2x hive guard 100
2x hive guard 100

tervigon adrenal toxin onslaught 195
tervigon adrenal toxin onslaught 195
10x termagants 50
10x termagants 50

tyrannofex rupture cannon 265
tyrannofex rupture cannon 265


Onslaught the tyrannofex, run them at the enemy shooting as you go. Make babies, position them VERY carefully so that they aren' going to be within 6" of a dying tervie, but when the time is right you need to have them fade into range so they can pick up counter-attack and all the other goodies.

I wore out a 9 man nob unit with just termagants in one game. You really just have to be able to micromanage them really well. I had to keep feeding ten man units one at a time until the nobs were at a size where I could win combat or at east only lose by 1-2, then I sent in 40 termagants all at once.

Don't let him give up on gant farm until he has played a ton of games with it. A good player will plunk your tervigons when they are within 6" of a bunch of gant units, and you'll pay for that mistake. Good gant/gon placement takes lots of practice to do it quickly in a tourney pressure situation.

I feel like that 1500 is tuned for my playstyle as good as its going to be...

To scale up I am of two minds. Sometimes I want to just keep the shooty theme, I add 3x biovores, 3x hive guard and one more tervigon/termagant package. That has the same defensive horde grind out capability as my 1500 but is very succeptable to well armored death stars. The other way i think I will go to scale it up would be to move the HQ tervigon over to troops and give him catalyst, and then buy in for a hive tyrant with lash whip bonesword and devourers, lash whip tyrant guard and preferred enemy. Your hordiness goes down here, as does your anti-infantry firepower (losing out on another large blast) but you've got a pretty nasty problem solver unit with feel no pain, a 4+ cover, and 10 T6 wounds.

Most of the multi-wound T4 models are just far too succeptable to the copious amounts of strength 8 that the current metagame is populated with. (long fangs, hive guard, assault terminators, dark lance spam). The terrible FAQ dealt a grievous blow to zoanthropes (shadow doesnt affect embarked psykers, tyranid prime can't join them in a pod) The doom of malantai is now waiting for an edition of 40k where transports aren't rampant, trygons get shot to bits by special weapon fire (they could stand a 5+ invulnerable considering how easy it is to get a cover free shot lined up on its massive height)

A carnifex unit with tyranid primes joined to it can become very similar to the hive tyrant death star. In some ways its better, but worse in others. They have scything talon re-rolls instead of preferred enemy, and more attacks that ignore armor saves, but they lose paroxysm, and the preferred enemy bubble. But it is a viable option.

I have had virtually no luck with genestealers... pure flamer bait to anyone who was smart enough to mech up and bring flamers... (so, the top tables)

Thats what i got so far.... if i remember more or if you've got more questions, hit me up in this thread or in PMs.

It should be noted that on average Tervigons will spawn 17 termagaunts. 3 tervigons would therefore spawn, on average, 51 gaunts + the 20 troops is 71.

To have a story about sending in a few (I'm guessing at least 3) 10 man squads + an additional 40 to finish off the Nobs means you would have sent ~70 so about your total average termagaunts produced in an entire game. I can't help but feel that you got either really lucky with spawn rolls, or wonder what was dealing with the other 1200 points of Orks.

Just pointing it out.

Nope...

started the game with 20. Fed them both one at a time. Each of my three tervigons spawned a unit, and one unit spawned two. Pretty believable right?

i have had less than the optimal number of gants spawn. And I've even lost one game because of it. But the person i lost played a hell of a game and earned the win despite me getting one less unit than I would have liked.

It is a dice game, and probably sets tend to have clumps of statistical anomalies. However, in the last 10 RTT games I have won 7, lost 2 and tied 1. One of the losses I was soundly beaten by mephiston, whom I completely misplayed and allowed him a charge on a tervigon without screening him first. The game was over on turn 3 and my gant spawning had nothing to do with it. the other loss was also to blood angels, and i would have been in position to tie if i had one more gant unit. The tie was a spearhead cap and control that I chose to play conservatively. When a good player chooses to play spearhead cap and control conservatively... well you are gonna have a tie.

So my admittedly anecdotal evidence has me at 1-10 games where my gant spawning mattered. Unfortunately for nids, there isn't (IMO) another viable option for troop core/synapse core for competitive playing.

Dash,

Below is a rough copy of a list a local player is running amok with at 1850 and 2000. I need to ask him what he does with the last couple of points since I'm working off memory. The difference is that at 1850 he simply drops the brood of 4 warriors. The list has alot of synergy between the HT, Tervigons, Termagaunts, and Venomthropes and a decent amount of ranged shooting with the Hive Guard and Rupture Cannon to open transports. The combo of preferred enemy, poision and furious charge on the gaunts is pretty brutal and the Venomthropes provide both survivability for the MCs and assault protection against melee armies because of the dangerous terrain bubble. Let me know your specific questions and I will get him to answer them but this list definately wins regularly but still takes skill to win with.

Regards,
Mike K.

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 235 pts)
1 Hive Tyrant @ 235 pts (Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Bonded Exoskeleton; Synapse Creature; Psyker; Shadow in the Warp; Old Adversary; Armoured Shell; Paroxysm; Psychic Scream)

: Tyrant Guard Brood (2#, 130 pts)
2 Tyrant Guard Brood @ 130 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Bonded Exoskeleton; Rending Claws; Instinctive Behaviour - Feed; Blind Rampage; Shieldwall; Lash Whip)

HQ: Tervigon (1#, 235 pts)
1 Tervigon @ 235 pts (Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Bonded Exoskeleton; Claws & Teeth; Stinger Salvo; Synapse Creature; Brood Progenitor; Psyker; Shadow in the Warp; Spawn Termagants; Crushing Claws; Adrenal Glands; Toxin Sacs; Dominion; Catalyst; Onslaught)

Troops: Tervigon (1#, 235 pts)
1 Tervigon @ 235 pts (Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Bonded Exoskeleton; Claws & Teeth; Stinger Salvo; Synapse Creature; Brood Progenitor; Psyker; Shadow in the Warp; Spawn Termagants; Crushing Claws; Adrenal Glands; Toxin Sacs; Dominion; Catalyst; Onslaught)

Troops: Tervigon (1#, 235 pts)
1 Tervigon @ 235 pts (Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Bonded Exoskeleton; Claws & Teeth; Stinger Salvo; Synapse Creature; Brood Progenitor; Psyker; Shadow in the Warp; Spawn Termagants; Crushing Claws; Adrenal Glands; Toxin Sacs; Dominion; Catalyst; Onslaught)

Troops: Termagant Brood (16#, 80 pts)
16 Termagant Brood @ 80 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Chitin; Claws & Teeth; Fleshborer; Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk; Move Through Cover)

Troops: Termagant Brood (16#, 80 pts)
16 Termagant Brood @ 80 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Chitin; Claws & Teeth; Fleshborer; Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk; Move Through Cover)

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (4#, 160 pts)
4 Tyranid Warrior Brood @ 160 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Hardened Carapace; Scything Talons; Synapse Creature; Shadow in the Warp; Deathspitter; Toxin Sacs)

Elite: Hive Guard Brood (2#, 100 pts)
2 Hive Guard Brood @ 100 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Claws & Teeth; Hardened Carapace; Impaler Cannon; Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk)

Elite: Hive Guard Brood (2#, 100 pts)
2 Hive Guard Brood @ 100 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Claws & Teeth; Hardened Carapace; Impaler Cannon; Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk)

Elite: Venomthrope Brood (2#, 110 pts)
2 Venomthrope Brood @ 110 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Lash Whips; Reinforced Chitin; Toxic Miasma; Instinctive Behaviour - Feed; Spore Cloud; Toxic Touch)

Heavy Support: Tyrannofex (1#, 265 pts)
1 Tyrannofex @ 265 pts (Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Armoured Shell; Claws & Teeth; Stinger Salvo; Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk; Fearless; Rupture Cannon; Thorax Swarm (beetles))

Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.08b For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Total Roster Cost: 1965

I agree with shep. I have also evolved into a very similar list. I think that if you are an intelligent, situational player who understands how to play each unit to it's strengths, then this is where you are very likely to end up with tyranids.

It is sad, but we still aren't that good. I do not scale that list, however. At 2000, I am running swarmlord/tyrant/zoanthropes in pods... ...much stronger list, but undoable at anything less than 2000.

I too have lost games because of underproduction of 'gaunts. ( I lost one because of overproduction - kp... ) It is a risk you have to take. I will tell you one thing: as shep said, you will learn to micromanage those little guys and get the most out of them.

Inigo Montoya wrote:I agree with shep. I have also evolved into a very similar list. I think that if you are an intelligent, situational player who understands how to play each unit to it's strengths, then this is where you are very likely to end up with tyranids.

It is sad, but we still aren't that good.

I was going to stay out of this topic as Ive made my points, but this just made me laugh. That list is the most braindead Tyranid list you could possibly come up with. It spams a whopping total of 4 different units that are all incredibly simple to use (considering the list has no cover, no synergistic abilities [aside from being within 6" of a tervigon when you charge, hardly difficult]). All that list is about is hoping you get good gaunt spawns (like you said yourself, and even then who knows) and that your opponent can't deal with 6W MCs with no cover (and with no disruption in their backfield).

As for it still not being that good, did you ever think that maybe it's not an optimal list? I mean you have 530 points wasted on a unit (T-Fex) that kills one land raider every 2 games (assuming no cover) and 1 rhino every 4 turns (also assuming no cover)....

I haven't played it yet but at 1500:

Prime w/Lash Whip, Bonesword, Deathspitter, Poison

3x2 Hive Guard

3 Warriors w/Deathspitter, Poison, Boneswords

2x10-14 Gaunts

2xTervigons w/poison, glands, FnP power

2xTrygons w/Adrenal Glands

At 2k:

2xPrimes (same as above)

3x2 Hive Guard

2x14 Gaunts

2xTervigon (same as above)

16 Poisoned Hormaguants (or more HG, or your choice, these are my extra points)

2xTrygons w/Adrenal Glands

2 Carnifexes w/Bio-plasma (Joined by Primes)

It's shooty, durable (42 T6 wounds), and nasty up close.

Yeah. Its clear that you don't understand how to work the t-fex. Its not a hammerhead....

As you see I run it supported by onslaught, and I cast onslaught on it every turn. As I run it forward, I gain a cover save for my troop tervigons from his mass, and his own 2+ save makes him very resilient against missile spam. While he is running forward, he is getting in position to shoot his large blast, his flamer template AND his rupture cannon at a target. usually a unit that falls out of their transport that he either killed or the hive guard killed.

many people play their t-fex like a battle tank and hide him in the back just using the rupture cannon. i don't do that. I run him like the all around guntank that he is. For 265 he gives me a mobile heavy flamer, large blast strength 5, two strength 10 shots on a very difficult to kill with shooting platform. he also gives me an almost impossible to attain 4+ cover for my giant tervigons. You know... my troops...

It isn't simple to use, and thats why you don't think its very good. I'll just let my current record with the list stand as testament to it. You can continue pursuing your line of criticism, but I just went 4-0 in a 4 game no comp RTT, facing mech IG, blood angels, demons and battlewagon orks. And I have won the last 6 straight competitive tournament games with the list.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it isn't 'just luck'. You might want to move on to attacking my opponents credibility in order to discount my list. Because saying the t-fex isn't worth it, can be easily rebutted by me saying, learn to use it better. And saying the gant/gon doesn't work because you don't have cover is a further demonstration of your inability to use the list well. (Hive guard in base to base easily covers 50% of my converted tervigons and t-fexes.)

This thread is getting more adversarial than I'd like.... so this is it for me. You can go ahead and have the last word. Dash, I'll be in PMs if you have any questions.

Cool with the personal attacks and assuming I didn't do the exact same thing. I don't know how to use T-Fexes....you claim to blast a unit that comes out of a transport, well lets take a look...

Rupture Cannon: 0.27 MEQ kills

Cluster Spines: Let's be generous and say that 5 hit on average (extremely optimistic). 3 wounds = 1 MEQ kill.

2+ Flamer: Let's again be generous and say that you somehow hit half of a 10 man squad. 5 hit = 1.38 kills.

So after all that you kill about 2.5, and thats being extremely generous...for 265 points. Not only that, you are forgoing Feel No Pain on your Tervigons, now making even missiles destroy them. Numbers speak for themselves.

You keep saying I don't know what youre doing, but it isn't exactly difficult to figure out. Termagaunts > Hive Guard > Tervigon x3, with (i'm assuming) T-Fexes on the flanks. Yes, Hive Guard give cover saves (which I use)...at a single angle.

It should be noted I never said your list was bad or you cannot win with it, what I'm saying is there are too many variables it depends on and in a tournament environment where even one loss is terrible, it will suffer. I also said it is a simple list, which it is. I honestly can't think of a simpler Tyranid list (which may be a good thing depending on Dash's friends experience with the game).

I think you have taken the criticisms far too personally. First off, this isn't your list I'm bashing, it's a very common list, so I'm not specifically "attacking" you. More importantly I'm bringing up points, and an experienced player like Dash (and whoever else) can decide, or at the very least know the weaknesses of such a list. We can all learn from it (your points, my points, and anyone else's points) to improve our games.

EDIT: I also wanted to say that I really liked Hulk's list and am going to try it sometime. I'm just wondering why the deathspitters on the Primes? Wouldn't they just allow for wound allocation tricks against the bio-plasma?

Only if I shoot them. But they do provide some shots at range and for 5pts I don't see why not That 10pts won't net me much else.

What about Regeneration on one of them (since you can play allocation tricks), plus scything talons on both to reroll half your missed hits instead?

I like my nids in the current form, there are now some awesome must haves for me.

Genestealers + broodlord, outflanking Usually I get 10-12 and take ST,TS the ability to reroll to hit and wound against t4 and less allows awesome rending, plus the fear of them being around is nice.

Tryanofex + rupture cannon= win.

Trygon Prime is a beast.

I like shrikes I have 3 now and just got another set of wings from FW. I run rending claws, ST, TS, AG on them and one barbed strangler to hopefully pin some stuff on the way to CC.

I like the way Shep uses the T-Fex. I think that is the most effective way to use him. He's not only killing infantry up close, but also tieing up units in combat and drawing lots of fire from other targets. A Trygon could do the same thing, but wouldn't have the shots coming in and would struggle with the survivability part.


My own experience with bugs is a little different. I love the deployment shennigans Spore Mines and Ymgarls can play on my opponent. Mines and Stealers can work to hem in my opponents deployment and a Mawloc can then be used very effectively.