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With some recent purchases and trades, I'm starting to get close to beginning to work on my rough riders. The problem, like so many others have had, is that I'm having a terrible time deciding on what they should be mounted. Unlike most people who have this seemingly endlessly repeating problem, I have experience with scratchbuilding, so I'm not restricted by what models I can buy (finding the particular animal already in miniature form).

That said, I'm having a devil of a time picking (or creating) an animal and really sticking with it for the theme. This is where I need some inspiration from you.

There are a few restrictions -

- Due to a miscommunication in a trade I'm stuck with rectangular beast bases. I tried to chop apart a 25mm base and attach it, but it looks awful and was a pain and a half, and I'm not even certain I WANT such long bases. This, of course, does mean that in top profile, the mount has to be vaguely rectangular (so no giant spiders, for example).

- It must have legs. Yes, I've seen the dirt bike conversion, but I am morally plagued by the idea of fielding bikes and calling them cavalry instead of bikes. Likewise with anything that flies, etc.

- It must have a reasonably low profile. One of the problems with horses is that they have TLOS problems. I don't want them to be targeted prematurely because they're the only target my opponent can see over the hedges. This basically excludes horses and camels.

Other than that, the field is pretty wide open. I've considered at least a dozen options (including bear cavalry and giant mountain goats), with probably my favorite one being a lion, which I'm not sure I'll be able to have look suitably leaping and still fitting on a base.

The one thing I have down pat is the riders. The riders will look like my normal troopers wearing plasma masks:



And their weapon, rather than being a grenade on a stick will be a lascannon battery plugged into a millifarad capacitor with the "lance" being basically a big cattle prod (taserknights... oh yeah...)

I'm just trying to find something suitable to this grimdark feel.

Thanks.

Just a small point before I make a suggestion. As an over 1k poster I'm sure you're already aware of this, but it never hurts to reiterate: don't give them too low of a profile, or people will think you're trying to model for advantage.

I'm not insinuating that you don't already know this; just pointing it out since you said you didn't want horses and camels because they're "too tall."

Okay, with that out of the way:
For a more comedic aspect - have one or more riders on something goofy, like a hippo or an unrealistically pygmy elephant. If your army is all serious business though, skip this.
For something a little out there - Maybe big snakes. they can have a variable profile depending on how you mount them, and they can be super threatening/dark.

Perhaps a sort of hydra-like beast? Its heads could mirror those of the riders, and since it's completely fictional, you can give it any size/number of legs you want.

Eh, just my 2 cents.

Aren't your guy's desert warriors?

Why not use something like an oversized gekko or roadrunner?(do do do dooo do do do dooo do do, do do do doooo doooo do do do dooo do!).

Ailaros wrote:- It must have a reasonably low profile. One of the problems with horses is that they have TLOS problems. I don't want them to be targeted prematurely because they're the only target my opponent can see over the hedges. This basically excludes horses and camels.

so you're consciously planning to model for advantage? you should realize that it's considered cheating.

warboss wrote:

Ailaros wrote:- It must have a reasonably low profile. One of the problems with horses is that they have TLOS problems. I don't want them to be targeted prematurely because they're the only target my opponent can see over the hedges. This basically excludes horses and camels.

so you're consciously planning to model for advantage? you should realize that it's considered cheating.

Hey, if it looked damned good and his gaming group was okay with it, I'd let it float too.

I know you said "no giant spiders" but, well, they are rectangular, they would seem to fit your theme, they're plastic, they're GW, and they're shorter than horses.

Just sayin'...

sure. if they're also ok with him taking 100pts extra in every list vs them who are we to comment about it in a friendly game. the problem is when he plays someone that does know the rule and wants it enforced (which is totally legal, RAW, and correct). or if he took it to a local tourney... etc.

he seems like a nice guy from the battle reports and has a very nicely painted army... why risk ruining that experience for another player by mounting sniping position guardsmen on snakes to get an in game advantage (obviously an exaggeration but serves the point).

I think there's a difference of intent here. It's not like he's asking for something flat to the ground to get his invisible cheese-riders to win toruneys for him, he's simply saying that as a lot of cavalry models are huge, he'd rather something smaller so he's not unfairly picked out by TLOS. IIRC, the GW rough rider models have quite small horses compared to a lot of their current range.

Have you thought about using Cold Ones from the Dark Elves in Fantasyhammer? Empire Outriders are also pretty good for IG conversions.

Fafnir wrote:Aren't your guy's desert warriors?

Why not use something like an oversized gekko or roadrunner?(do do do dooo do do do dooo do do, do do do doooo doooo do do do dooo do!).

Yes, they are.

I considered lizards (with their tails hacked off), but I somehow fail to see a giant lizard as the epitome of speed. Unless, of course, they were dinosaurs like cold ones, for example. I'm not one of those people who doesn't care for rough riders because they don't like the idea of horse cavalry in the 41st millenium, but I think dinosaurs pushes that envelope a little too much for my tastes.

I have also considered a bird-based model. The problem is that I can't get the idea of them riding chocobos out of my head. If I could think of some way to do this tastefully (I had also though of having them be mechanized riding ostriches a la world of warcraft), I'd definitely consider it.

I did also have the idea of like a 2-headed land-based bird creature with the two necks bolted together so that the heads always looked in the same direction. Suitably grimdark...

Xca|iber wrote:For a more comedic aspect - have one or more riders on something goofy, like a hippo or an unrealistically pygmy elephant. If your army is all serious business though, skip this.

I'm not above doing humorous, I just need to find something sufficiently absurd. The idea of them riding goats or yaks crossed my mind, as well as miniature rhinos. The thing is, though, that I'd be looking for something really loltastic while at the same time being "realistic" as futuristic alien cavalry (so like no house cats). I haven't found something that has really struck my proverbial funnybone yet.

Xca|iber wrote:For something a little out there - Maybe big snakes. they can have a variable profile depending on how you mount them, and they can be super threatening/dark.

I like the idea, but don't see how it could be executed all that well as snakes are really long when they move.

Xca|iber wrote:Perhaps a sort of hydra-like beast? Its heads could mirror those of the riders, and since it's completely fictional, you can give it any size/number of legs you want.

Yeah, I've been thinking of rocking the blatantly fictional element as well, from the more mundane like actual manticores, to something really crazy and alien. Once again, the problem has been finding something suitably inspiring.

Ktulhut wrote:I know you said "no giant spiders" but, well, they are rectangular, they would seem to fit your theme, they're plastic, they're GW, and they're shorter than horses.

Wait, which ones?

Xca|iber wrote:I'm not insinuating that you don't already know this; just pointing it out since you said you didn't want horses and camels because they're "too tall."

warboss wrote:so you're consciously planning to model for advantage? you should realize that it's considered cheating.... he seems like a nice guy from the battle reports and has a very nicely painted army... why risk ruining that experience for another player by mounting sniping position guardsmen on snakes to get an in game advantage (obviously an exaggeration but serves the point).

Firstly, I have to state my opinion formed ever since I heard the first rumor of it's return: GW was a total idiot to bring back TLOS. What did they expect people to do once characters suffered real in-game penalties for the foolishness of GW's designs? TLOS means that the way you build your model has a tactical difference on the field, when the model-makers weren't thinking tactics in mind when they designed the models. What I'm doing is no different than people ripping off that ridiculous gun shield off their basilisks once they started suffering vehicle wrecked results because a random flange designed to look cool caused the vehicle to take unwarranted damage.

I in no way consider the way one chooses to convert a model ON IT'S APPROPRIATE BASE to be a form of cheating. That it gives a tactical advantage if I do it one way and a tactical disadvantage if I do it another has everything to do with GW's idiotic decision to combine art and tactics. That I refuse to accept a reasonless disadvantage doesn't strike me as being disingenuous in any way. Were I scratch building rokkit buggies that were 12" tall and 2 feet wide to block LOS behind them or were I taking an established vehicle kit and making it bigger or smaller in order to hide it or hide other stuff behind it, I could see the moral compulsion, but the only thing keeping me from modeling all of my infantry as crouching is that I didn't put them together that way in the first place and I'm too lazy to change it now.

Plus, by the time I'm done, 6th ed might be out and they may have returned to their senses... Until then, I've just got to manage the tragedy of this conflict as best I can. Obviously, if I were just WAACing this, my cavalry would be, as described, a bunch of prone guardsmen on hoverboards or something. If I didn't care about winning at all, I'd have them riding full-grown elephants. As it is, I'm looking for something that still looks reasonably cool that doesn't impart the unique disadvantages of cool modeling that are currently in play.

Ailaros wrote:

Ktulhut wrote:I know you said "no giant spiders" but, well, they are rectangular, they would seem to fit your theme, they're plastic, they're GW, and they're shorter than horses.

Wait, which ones?

These ones:


http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440079a&prodId=prod840899

Ailaros wrote:*snipped out the viva la no TLOS manifesto*

Plus, by the time I'm done, 6th ed might be out and they may have returned to their senses...

i agree that TLOS is bad but i think it's here to stay. it was one of the biggest unpleasant suprises for me when i came back to playing 40k this edition after taking 4th off (along with complicated wound allocation that makes it sometimes better NOT to shoot extra weapons). as for it going away, i seriously doubt it. TLOS was just ADDED to fantasy warhammer with the edition released last night.

Last night? Warboss, are you a time traveller?

didn't the new fantasy boxed set just come out this weekend? i realize the big book was out earlier but the boxed set is what i meant.

Oh, yeah. I sort of keep the actual ruleset seperate in my head from GWs latest marketing ploy/starter kit.

Ailaros wrote:

Fafnir wrote:Aren't your guy's desert warriors?

Why not use something like an oversized gekko or roadrunner?(do do do dooo do do do dooo do do, do do do doooo doooo do do do dooo do!).

Yes, they are.

I considered lizards (with their tails hacked off), but I somehow fail to see a giant lizard as the epitome of speed. Unless, of course, they were dinosaurs like cold ones, for example. I'm not one of those people who doesn't care for rough riders because they don't like the idea of horse cavalry in the 41st millenium, but I think dinosaurs pushes that envelope a little too much for my tastes.

Lizards can move really freaking fast man. And for a ridden example, look at the lizard-thing Obi Wan rides in Episode III (I'd like to keep references to the prequel trilogy to a minimum. Such abominations rarely deserve acknowledgement). It moved really damn fast, and looks fairly lifelike in its movements too.

I did also have the idea of like a 2-headed land-based bird creature with the two necks bolted together so that the heads always looked in the same direction. Suitably grimdark...

YES

They could ride penal troopers? It could be their punishment?

I did also have the idea of like a 2-headed land-based bird creature with the two necks bolted together so that the heads always looked in the same direction. Suitably grimdark...

YES

exactly, like a brutalized, mutilated doduo.

The question I have is if it would look suitable with a mask-wearing maniac with a giant stun gun.

Oh, and long ago someone once made the suggestion that cadian rough riders should ride catachans piggy back. I got a dirty look from my boss when I chuckled a little too loudly at that one at work. The only way I could see doing it now would be for a couple of guys carrying the cavalryman in a sedan chair or rickshaw. I can't quite see how that would look (and I don't necessarily want to buy more models if that can be avoided, as hilarious as the idea otherwise seems).

First, the pictured squad looks Fantastic!
second, i think coldones will give you about the same height profile as horses, or pretty close.
i think horses would be the best feel for desert warriors, personally. camels would be too tall. as well
as bears i'm affraid. for the "lowest" profile, i think a "bike" of some form is you best bet. unless you could find
some low to the ground lizard model. but again, they'd have a slower look i think.
my opinion anyway.

Giant ostriches/emus? Giant centipedes/sandworms? They could be biological or machine equivalents. I like the idea of a low floating creature/machine, if some sort of anti-grav fits your fluff

Whatever you do, they're counting as horse riders, so make them roughly the same height as normal horse riders - it really will avoid so many arguments. If you do choose a 'short' creature like centipedes/sandworms/spiders etc, put them on elevated bases to bring them up to the correct height.

A dark elf cold one.

Unless you are minted in which case the FW rough rider mount would be awesome!

M

Just putting in my vote for some sort of lizard. Maybe something with six legs though for no other reason than the fact that it would look good!

Firstly, I'm going to say that I'm not particularly happy with the idea that your modelling something purely to decrease the size of its profile. Your own personal feelings aside, TLOS is probably here to stay (and I, for one, am thankful as I find it to be much, much better than having to measure 2" into forests and having infinitely tall trees etc. etc.) so be careful when designing whatever it is that it can cause consternation amougst some people.

Back on topic...have you considered converting the Steeds of Slaanesh? They look particularly lithe and agile, and could easily be converted to look more lizard-y should you choose to go heavy with the GS.

L. Wrex

A backpack walker system, kind of like an exo-suit designed to allow the wearer to run very fast?

Failing that, some kind of skateboard with little insect legs sticking out.

I actually really like the legs on those slaaneshi demon mount models. The rest of the models look insufficiently rugged for a guard mount, but I could easily see those legs as the base.

I'm not too hot on an exo-squad idea, but as far as machines are concerned, it would be kind of funny to see them on go-karts.

Another vote for something along the lines of a lizard. They're desert animals, can run really fething fast, have low profiles, and can also be vicious enough for a madman wielding a taser-gun on steroids to approve.

I was going to suggest something like my Stalkers, but if you're not into the exo-suit idea, how about mono-wheels?

I've seen really nice Ork bikers using them and I toyed with them for my RRs but couldn't come up with a concept I was entirely happy with.

Of the suggested, I'd say lizard first, monowheel second.

Personally, I'd make my own creature if I could, something with 4 legs and a head, maybe all lizardy, horsey and catty rolled into one, with tusks or a hump or horns, or something.

Miniature cat-camels

Just make sure it has fierce eyes...

One of the Gaunt's Ghosts novels had bird-riding cavalry (struthids or something).

Dark elf cold ones seems to be a staple idea - you could possibly convert them to be running on 4 legs rather than 2.

What about the salamander in the lizard men range - or would that be too big (length/width wise).

If you can find any of the old khornate hounds they might work - look vaguely lizard like, fit one cavalry bases and give you a bulky look without being massive