New 6th Edition Rumors from Heresy Online (WD psychic power chart pic on pg 25)

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**H.B.M.C.**

Davor wrote:They already have psychic cards you can download. At least for Tyranids. So this is really nothing new except that they are charging us for it now.

Next you'll be telling me that those Tyranid cards were made in preparation for 6th.

This is new, because it's a completely new psychic system.

**Farseer Mael Dannan**

sennacherib wrote:
As far as the play for fun/WAAC/tournament player argument that occupied the prior page, i have to say that you can play however you want. Just make sure your opponent is on the same page as you. Playing a fluffy army against a honed tourni list is no fun at all. And in answer to someones post about how no one enters a match with the hopes of loosing. Not true. There are less experienced players at my local club that i have seriously dumbed my army down when i faced them. I started off with the intent that they would have the best chance of winning possible. They still usually lost because they made some wonky decisions or one or two critical rolls didnt go their way. But what was most important to me was that they had fun and that i did too. i always meter my list so that it balances well with the level/style of play that i expect my foe to bring. that is all.

I do this very same thing. Heck, even within my group of people I consistently play with I can tell when, playing my "typical" game I would crust the enemy team or not. If I would, than the list can be toned down to something more fun or I can bring that "one unit" I love but just never pulls their points. This allows me to play honestly on the field and not absolutley crush them or have to hold myself back.

**Brian P**

Carnage43 wrote:
ForgeMarine wrote:I havent sorted thru all of the post yet, however last I read there were going to be magic cards similiar to Fantasy. Any thoughts to how this will impact characters such as Mephiston? Any Thoughts? Thanks

The "card" portion is largely irrelevant, they are basically printed off versions of what you will find in the rule book from what I understand. From what I've seen/heard there will be 35 spells spread across 5 schools. I imagine the schools will be sorted into various categories,

Battle field control (+to reserve rolls, negative to enemy's, increased cover saves, "the Gate", Lash of slaanesh..etc)
Personal buffs (Sanguine sword, Unleashed rage, quickening, wings of sanguinius, hammer-hand, might of heroes, leech life...etc)
Army buffs (Fortune, Catalyst, sanctuary, shrouding, force dome/shield, something to grant FC)
Offensive (Blood boil, avenger, warp rift, jaws of the world wolf, doombolt, smite, vortex of doom, lightning, eldrich storm)
Debuffs (Fear of the darkness, Doom, Paroxym)

Of course they could play the old race spell schools; Eldar, Space Marines, Orks, Tyranids and "Misc" or imperial guard. Hell, the spells could be entirely new, and in addition or instead of current spells.

That's my big question, especially for Weirdboyz. They get to use psychic powers instead of rolling on the chart? In addition to rolling on the chart? Are they just going to invalidate every single psychic power in every codex? I actually don't care either way.

**Marrak**

There are psychic cards for Tyranids to download? o.O Where?

On another note, the idea of allies worries me only due to the way that the restrictions were from 2nd. Meaning the Nids are left high and dry. Now, the thing is in 2nd edition, Tyranids didn't need allies as their book was strong, in some ways ridiculously so. Obviously in 5th that is by no means the case, and we struggle with a handicap against many armies right out the gate.

I'm curious to see how 6th will handle this, and what future it'll hold for my Hive Fleet.

**morgendonner**

Up until this point no rumors have really left me too concerned.. allies certainly does though.

White Dwarf leaks should hit in a day or two so hopefully that will shed some light on it.

My expectation is that it will be an addendum type section of the rulebook, just like Buildings currently are. I can't tell you the last time I played a 40k game with actual AV Buildings. Regardless of whether it's an addendum or not, I expect GTs will disallow allies if they are just take anything you like as it's skewed towards imperial armies and patches everyone's weaknesses.

**N.I.B.**

I wouldn't get my knickers in a bunch over allies. If it will unbalance the game (and it will, most likely, as it has in the past) it will be banned in tournaments, and by thus allies won't be allowed in the majority of club games either, at least in my region were most games are either finetuning lists for tournaments or testing ideas for the next tournament, using tournament missions and restrictions.
Which leaves the ally rules to the beer&pretzel games, or pick-up games at your LGS. As it should be.

And what's with the fuss over psychic cards? It's the equivalent of wound markers, or objective markers, or spell cards in fantasy. They've been around fantasy forever, and very few use them, as the spells (psychich powers) are described in the rule book anyway. Just look up the powers in the rule book or codex, you wont be forced to buy psychic cards.

**Dantalian**

Tau with no allies? According to that allies chart GW released last month for the tournament Tau could ally with everyone lol. Hell my local store just had a teams tournament a couple days ago and I played with a Necron player. And let me tell you what, I think we easily made proof that allies would break the game worse than anything else. We aptly named out team "Night Fight LOL" because we were took advantage of one thing people never seem to prepare for. My ally ran C'tan with runecape and Imotekh, I took full broadsides with BSF and we pretty much cheesed our way to victory (of course the scarab farm and sweep attack pimp mobile helped too). Every game we played no one could break the night, and by the time we rolled bad on the storm almost everything of threat was killed.
The idea of my friend being able to field broadsides scares me to no end. It will go well with the rest of his army being able to glance things to death and scarabs reducing armor.

I should have the Batreps of these games posted by tomorrow.

On another note I like the new spell cards. Something new like this into the game would be a nice change, so long as it doesn't go out of control like it did in fantasy magic. Teclis still leave a pretty bitter taste in my mouth to this day.

**Darkseid**

morgendonner wrote:White Dwarf leaks should hit in a day or two ...

Leaks incomming (from Warseer)

- Hull Points are in, it is stated that Ghost Arks, Land Raiders, and Defilers each have 4 Hull Points apiece. Necrons have the ability to strip hull points for each roll of a 6 to penetrate/glance vehicles, making rapid-firing gauss weaponry very powerful at removing armour.

- Speaking of rapid fire, you can indeed move and fire once up to the full range of the weapon (it is explicitly stated that Fire Warriors can fire their weapons up to 30" away), no confirmation on the 3x fire for Relentless at half range though.

- Assault moves are indeed 2d6", but added together. Units equipped with jump packs can re-roll the dice to see how far they charge.

- The Rage USR gives you +2 attacks on the charge

- All flying monstrous creatures have the ability to fly 24", doing something called a "Vector Strike", which is a certain amount of automatic hits to a unit they fly over, at the base strength of the creature.

- Monstrous creatures' attacks are explicitly AP 2

- Every army must select a "Warlord" or single general to lead the army, this leader gets an ability. They can choose between three different types of abilities, "Personal", "Inspirational" or "Strategic". They then roll on one of those charts to see what ability it is. The two examples given were a Grand Master giving all friendlies within 12" his Ld of 10 (Inspirational), and a Chaos Lord being a scoring unit (Personal, the ability itself was called "Immovable Object")

- Flyers are a specific type of unit, and it is somewhat unclear as to the rules for shooting at them. Either all units require a 6 to hit them (unless they have a special rule called Skyfire), or this is still the case but only if those flyers move flat-out. Monstrous creatures with the ability to Fly also get this "6-to-hit" rule.

- You have the ability to buy different terrain (it even has its own slot on the new FOC), e.g, you can buy a Bastion with a Quad-Gun (which has the aforementioned Skyfire USR). There seem to be quite a few options for what terrain you can buy, but naturally most of them are typically represented by terrain kits GW sells.

- Now we're on the topic of the FOC, the rules for allies weren't laid out specifically, but it is heavily implied that its not the same as in WHFB. They refer to allied units as "Detachments", and there is an example of a player with a Chaos Space Marine force having some detachments of Chaos Daemons in his army. Basically, I was given the impression that it is far more common (and frequent) for a detachment from another 40k army to join a larger one, than it is for a Fantasy army to have Allies. Think more along the lines of the Storm of Magic rules for using TK, VC, or Daemons.

- Here's a biggie: Units -can- go on Overwatch, giving them the ability to fire upon an enemy unit which charges them, but at BS 1. Eldar (and any other army with access to the Clairvoyance psychic power set) can use a psychic power to give a unit the ability to fire at their usual BS.

- Monstrous Creatures have access to a special "Smash" attack, allowing them to halve their attacks, but double their strength. It mentions that this gives them the ability to destroy tanks more easily.

- It's somewhat hinted that AP will have some kind of affect against vehicles. This is because part of the Munitorum dice set includes vehicle damage dice. It specifies that some of the dice are "AP 1, AP 2, and AP 3 Damage dice", or something to that effect.

- 4 Disciplines of Psychic powers, basically what we were thinking in terms of Clairvoyance, Biomancy, etc etc. There's a chart near the back of the WD detailing which (if any) psychic disciplines a particular army gains access to. It's interesting to see that a large amount of armies don't have access to any at all.

**Spartan089**

Well there goes my meq army which I didn't even finish, 12 rhino's down the drain... apparently even a guardsman's flashlight can take down a tank.

**Cerebrium**

Allies rules back in so I can get proper daemons in my word bearers and traitor guard in my iron warriors?

I REALLY hope that's true.

Chaos need a points cut on sorcerors and better psychic powers though.

**Crazyterran**

Spartan089 wrote:Well there goes my meq army which I didn't even finish, 12 rhino's down the drain... apparently even a guardsman's flashlight can take down a tank.

Necrons having the ability to take away Hull Points immediately means that Guardsmen w/ Lasguns can take down Armor.

Clearly an appropriate reaction!

**Cerebrium**

Yeah, I was thinking that. Rhinos will still be immune to lasguns. It's purely an improvement to Necrons.

**Crazyterran**

I'm interested in seeing what Hullpoints do, and the new Vehicle Damage chart(s) to see the change.

One army being stronger against vehicles isn't making me all of a sudden want to throw all of my vehicles out of my army. We need more information first.

**Ledabot**

Crazyterran wrote:
Spartan089 wrote:Well there goes my meq army which I didn't even finish, 12 rhino's down the drain... apparently even a guardsman's flashlight can take down a tank.

Necrons having the ability to take away Hull Points immediately means that Guardsmen w/ Lasguns can take down Armor.

Clearly an appropriate reaction!

I think he might have missread the post.

Some of these things look like they moght really help me, but then again, some is terrable. 2d6 charge?! I have visions of daemon princes, especially with wings becoming verry good very fast with the new dex.

**Spartan089**

Crazyterran wrote:I'm interested in seeing what Hullpoints do, and the new Vehicle Damage chart(s) to see the change.

One army being stronger against vehicles isn't making me all of a sudden want to throw all of my vehicles out of my army. We need more information first.

Granted maybe using guardsman as an example was a bit much, but the fact remains vehicles have been wholly nerfed and necrons extremely buffed, and everyone hops on board the power train, saw it with Tau with Fish of Fury, saw it with Grey Knights, gonna see it with Necrons (unless we get an errata that doesn't make crons broken, though considering Ward had a hand in the Necron codex we are more likley to see them buffed even more then balanced

.

**Crazyterran**

Necrons are also one army. They also suffer from a sever case of 'no psykers'.

Use the advantages that Space Marines have. Blow them away with Psychic Powers, considering we are getting a whole bunch of new ones to potentially play with. And since, other than Eldar and CSM, Imperium Armies are the only ones with Psykers to begin with! (well, Orks could count, I suppose, depends on if weirdboys join in on the new powers.)

And not only that, Imperial Players and Eldar are the only ones with effective Psychic Defense. We get Hoods, Eldars get Runes of Eldarstuff.

We have to wait and see what happens with the entire Rulebook before bitching about an army that severely lacks in a new, powerful area gets a buff to their Anti Tank arsenal. In a way that we don't even know how big of a buff it is - because, again, it all depends on how Hull Points and the new Vehicle Damage Chart(s) work.

**spaceelf**

Marrak wrote:
On another note, the idea of allies worries me only due to the way that the restrictions were from 2nd. Meaning the Nids are left high and dry. Now, the thing is in 2nd edition, Tyranids didn't need allies as their book was strong, in some ways ridiculously so. Obviously in 5th that is by no means the case, and we struggle with a handicap against many armies right out the gate.

I'm curious to see how 6th will handle this, and what future it'll hold for my Hive Fleet.

I always thought that the Nids could ally with the Squats.

**Leth**

One of the things I heard was that it was critical hits which makes me think it will be limited to penetrating results, not glancing.

Easy way to make gauss not as overpowered, and I think that is how they will do it.

**Therion**

And not only that, Imperial Players and Eldar are the only ones with effective Psychic Defense. We get Hoods, Eldars get Runes of Eldarstuff.

Necrons have the Gloom Prism which is allright against offensive spells atleast or debuffs. Tyranids and Space Wolves also have psychic defence.

Easy way to make gauss not as overpowered, and I think that is how they will do it.

Gauss is good enough if those shaken and stunned results stack towards immobilised and weapon destroyed and wrecked. The hull point system is a needless complication and once again I can't see why a rule like that was implemented in the first place. Also what's the basis for the hull point allowance if Ghost Arks and Land Raiders have an equal amount, considering that one is dirt cheap in comparison? Ward just looks at a model and thinks "yeah this looks tough I'll give it five Ward points"...

**Nvs**

Wonder what they'll give Dark Eldar for psychic powers. All the fluff implies they don't get any, but their codex options at stopping psykers are somewhat limited when you consider how much they're expanding the psychic system.

**Requiem**

Therion wrote:Also what's the basis for the hull point allowance if Ghost Arks and Land Raiders have an equal amount, considering that one is dirt cheap in comparison? Ward just looks at a model and thinks "yeah this looks tough I'll give it five Ward points"...

This is just really hard to believe... an equal amount of hull points for ghost arks and land raiders would be insane

**BrookM**

Makes me wonder how many the good Old Russ will get and, what they'll slap onto the Baneblade.

**DarthOvious**

labmouse42 wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote:That is disappointing though as someone who doesn't play templars it's also somewhat of a relief.
Sadly, if I remember correctly SW chaplins give a flat out preferred enemy vs. one type of your choice.

Stick one in with your double PG GH squad and your rerolling missed 'to hits'. I wonder how 'HOT' that would get?

Four words.

Blood Angels - Unleash Rage

**Dantalian**

I like the idea of the Commanders getting a special ability. This sounds like a nice idea of introducing something useful for every codices army all at once. Though Just like random psychic powers, I'm not a fan of this being random as well. With one roll it could determine if your HQ is now more or less useless than your opponents HQ? Of course that will depend on what the abilities per tree are, they all might be really useful.

**Therion**

Dantalian wrote:I like the idea of the Commanders getting a special ability. This sounds like a nice idea of introducing something useful for every codices army all at once. Though Just like random psychic powers, I'm not a fan of this being random as well. With one roll it could determine if your HQ is now more or less useless than your opponents HQ? Of course that will depend on what the abilities per tree are, they all might be really useful.

GW loves random. The fact that you'll never know what your general is able to do is fun supposedly. I'd imagine those psychic powers are like the minor psychic powers of old. You'll spend 10 points to get a roll on the table. All of the tables will be awful except one which has a new version of 'Siren' which makes you unkillable for the whole game, and you have near-automatic access to the spell if you buy 6 or more rolls for the table.

The funny thing with these rumours is once again that we were told nothing concrete. We weren't told about the missions, how many turns a game has and if random game length is in or if the turn structure is the same as before overall, how the movevement & assault & shooting phases are structured, etc. I don't really care if counter-assault is slightly different or if the AP value of a lightning claw was changed in comparison to how the game is actually played, but it seems like the little birds who chirp these rumours only focus on irrelevant tidbits instead of reading the rules of the game.

**DarthOvious**

Darkseid wrote:
morgendonner wrote:White Dwarf leaks should hit in a day or two ...

- The Rage USR gives you +2 attacks on the charge

Erm, Death Company are already fantastic in combat. With a Chaplain attached this will just make them completely insane.

**Marrak**

spaceelf wrote:
I always thought that the Nids could ally with the Squats.

Just because my tacos were delicious doesn't mean I'm going to let them shoot guns next to be in battle.

Some of these new rumors are intriguing... the flying MC vector strike, combined with always needing a 6 to hit, would actually pull the harpy out of "why the heck is this guy hanging around" and put him into "yeah I could see using him."

Doubling the strength of MCs against vehicles is nice for everyone but my Carnifex, who now literally has no purpose in the codex, since the doubling will take every TMC to 10, and the rest all fight better than he does, especially the Trygon. Still, that removes the biggest weakness Trygons have currently, where an AV 14 vehicle can give them some problems, so I'm curious how these hull points will work, probably just like vehicle wounds.

Making your general scoring suddenly turns a Hive Tyrant and his guard into a very, very hard to kill objective grabber. I'd like it because right now my HT basically exists to sit in the back and play defensively. This would make it more appealing to make him aggressive.

I wonder how "no retreat" wounds are handled now, as that is still the biggest killer that Tyranids have to consider and overcome when we consider assaulting armies... it turns minor losses into major issues.

**spectreoneone**

BrookM wrote:Makes me wonder how many the good Old Russ will get and, what they'll slap onto the Baneblade.

Baneblade already has 3 Structure Points...I presume that it won't have hull points, as SP fill pretty much the same role. Nevermind that it's a Superheavy for Apoc, and we haven't seen how Apoc will be affected by 6th...if it will be affected at all.

On another note...I know a lot of folks are upset about this rule, or that rule...but we all have to remember that we really cannot declare that certain rules are broken without more context. For all we know, the "broken" rules work in synergy with other rules that balance them out. I know we all have our cynicism about GW's ability to release anything balanced, but let's at least give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm honestly more frustrated at GW's silly marketing strategy...

**Therion**

Some of these new rumors are intriguing... the flying MC vector strike, combined with always needing a 6 to hit, would actually pull the harpy out of "why the heck is this guy hanging around" and put him into "yeah I could see using him."

You think? You realise that requiring 6's to hit makes it impractically hard to kill with shooting weapons. It takes 29 BS4 missile launcher shots to do 4 wounds on a monster flying fast with no cover save. It will do sweeping attacks all game and never move less than 24" per turn, always ending the move somewhere safe from assault and hopefully with cover saves or entirely hidden from sight. Necron CCBs already do this and when they're only hit on 6's they'll be a ridiculous pain in the ass. I could easily see it being smart for Tyranids to cram in as many flying monsters as they can and just win games by doing vector strikes all day long.

**Green is Best!**

spectreoneone wrote: I'm honestly more frustrated at GW's silly marketing strategy...

There was one?