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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Welcome to game 27 of the Blood Conquers All series. To view other battle reports in this series, click here.

With the holidays in force, 40k time has been sporadic. This game saw the final week of 40k free play with a new escalation league starting next week. This game was against a blood angels player that I hadn't seen since three years ago, back in my public game days.

THE CHALLENGER: We're painted red. Thus we're the fastest space marine chapter
1850 pts.

BA Librarian
- in terminator armor with lots of goodies
- psychic power that adds attacks, and psychic power that... did something else good in close combat.

Sanguiniary priest
- terminator armor, etc.

6 terminators
- mix of thunder hammers and lightning claws

10x assault marines
- sarge with a fist
10x tac marines
- 2x meltaguns
- rhino

Lascannon predator
Baal Predator with assault cannon, heavy bolters

Land Raider Crusader
- multimelta, assault cannon, hurricane bolters
Vindicator
- siege shield


THE DEFENDER: We're painted brown which means... wait...
1850 pts.

CCS, astropath, 4x melta
Lord Commissar, fist, carapace
eviscerator priest
eviscerator priest
eviscerator priest

6 ogryn
5x stormtrooper squad with plasma
5x stormtrooper squad with plasma

PCS, al'rahem (Rhamael), 4x melta
PIS, power weapon, meltabombs, meltagun, commissar, power weapon
PIS, power weapon, meltabombs, meltagun
PIS, power weapon, meltabombs, meltagun, commissar, power weapon
PIS, power weapon, meltabombs, meltagun

PCS, 3x melta
PIS, power weapon, meltabombs, meltagun, commissar, power weapon
PIS, power weapon, meltabombs, meltagun
PIS, power weapon, meltabombs, meltagun, commissar, power weapon
PIS, power weapon, meltabombs, meltagun

The mission was Annihilation. The deployment was table quarters. I win the roll to go first, and after much deliberation decide to take it. On the one hand, I don't want the first turn against an assaulty army. On the other, I very much wanted to pick my table quarter. All the terrain in the other three made me think that things would be worse.

At deployment, the field looked like this:



I deploy in a somewhat reserved fashion. I'm expecting him to charge me, and I want to set up the most favorable conditions possible. Also, I'm going to want to draw him in towards a table edge to spring Rhamael on him. Basically, I'm going to want to have my forces concentrated as much as is possible. No need to go tramping up the field on a game with no objectives.

My opponent squares off with all of his terminator madness in the crusader. He fails to seize and the game begins.


TURN 1

Report concerning the action on: 3 Theos
Daxos Line

As had been made clear over the preceding days, our great and nearly implacable foe had, indeed, finally decided to abandon the city once and for all. Against such a mighty and brave force as ours, against such tactical genius such as mine, and against such a holy cause as that of our blessed and eternal Emperor, our foes had no choice but to submit in placability.

Reinforcements from other regiments of various worlds had begun to arrive in the city and relieve our beleaguered men. We had only one mission left before we were relieved entirely. It fell to various groups of the survivors of our division to take a few strong points outside of the city, so as to permit the reinforcing forces to safely take over our defensive positions in the city itself.

I took stock of what I had left of my line. I had begun the engagement with eight groups for nearly a thousand men. Now, despite being continually refreshed with new soldiers, I was now down to less than two hundred. I can only thank the Emperor that our officers have been mostly spared the carnage, despite taking the field with such bravery and forbearance against enemy action.

With such few available, I had no choice but to lead the assault myself, and lead I did.




So, both me and my opponent have close-combat-oriented armies of roughly the same killing power. The thing is, though, that my opponent is a BA player. This means he gets at least 6" of extra movement with ALL of his units. This means that I'm going to have to play very carefully if I don't want to get multi-charged by a tac squad, an assault squad, and a crap load of terminators simultaneously.

Furthermore, with half of my infantry off the table, his mobility would allow him to very easily concentrate his force against only part of mine, and in an awful hurry. If my opponent plays quickly enough, he might well be able to kill what I have on the board before Rhamael has a chance to show up, making this a very ugly game for me indeed.

Without the ability to reliably get the charge in, or even to be able to shoot his land raider with meltaguns before he is able to get the termies out and charge the meltagunners, I spend the top of one carefully contracting my forces. Not only do I want the ogryn to not get insta-splatted by the vindicator, but I also want to draw my opponent over towards a board edge so that my outflankers will be able to charge in on them the turn they arrive.

As nothing in my army has over a 12" range of shooting, the turn ends right after the movement phase.

After this point, the field looked like this:



In response, my opponent does something I do not expect. Despite having a 22" threat range with the terminators in the raider, and with all of his vehicles being fast and getting practically free dozer blades, my opponent does... nothing.

After slightly reshuffling his units around, my opponent goes straight into the shooting phase, seeing his assault cannons and lascannon predator ding a couple wounds off of ogryn in cover.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 2

My army is currently divided and vulnerable. If my opponent thinks I'm going to be the one to charge him, he's insane. Thankfully, instead of using his speed to attack just one part of my line and roll it up, my opponent has given me valuable time to get the rest of my forces in.

Which they do:



As I lead my troops to the outskirts of the fortification, I could see the tail end of enemy resistance occupying the area. They seemed aware of our presence, and their vehicles were running and prepared for battle.

Just then, the remainder of the forces which I was not keeping in the rear assembled at the line of attack. Once things were prepared, I would be able to move my forces in towards their objectives.


Other than Rhamael showing up with the rest of my army, I also get one of my stormie squads in. Under the impression that he's still going to charge me, I put him on the right. I want to draw some of his forces away from the main body, so that when the action happens, my opponent will have less in force.



Plus, I'm going to want to use the ogryn as a shield, something which they will do poorly if they get nailed by a vindicator.

Shooting sees the stormies open up for three hits and a burn. The three hits on rear armor put down two penetrations and a glance, but tragically only put down a pair of immobilized results and a shake. The vindicator is now neutralized, but this is kill points, so...

Oh, and the burn killed the firer. For those keeping track, so far of 20 shots my stormies have made with plasma guns, I've gotten 4 overheats, and all 4 have failed armor saves.

The rest of shooting is obviously minimal. There is some running, but I roll pretty poorly with everything. Plus, I've got this narrow, narrow ~2" to 4" window that the terminators can charge me in, but the assault marines can't, so I've got to be sort of careful how I move.

After this point, the field looked like this:



In return, my opponent once again chooses the path of retreat.

In shooting, my opponent throws down an assault cannon burst which, thanks to cover, only kills 2 stormies. Unfortunately, they fail morale and, because the plasma guy killed himself, can no longer regroup...

The little rest of gunfire is poured on my ogryn, who, well, take it like ogryn.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 3

My opponent's units are consolidated, and are much faster than mine, so I still have to be very careful with how I approach my opponent. As he has decided to run away from Rhamael, and NOT run away from the rest of my forces, there's still a pretty darn good chance he can catch my forces divided. As such, my movement basically becomes one giant wheeling action as I desperately move in my outflanking forces to provide a united front against my opponent.

Shooting sees more running, and my plasma stormies continuing their bad luck streak with a plasma gun that only scores a single hit, and then rolls a snakeye for damage.

Also, the Ogryn get a round of "Bring it down, iffa pleese!" to prepare a 2+ cover save against whatever my opponent continues you throw at them next turn.



In response, my opponent, well... continues doing whatever he's doing. It's like he's trying to attack me on a flank, but he's doing it at 6" a turn, rather than the 18" his forces are capable of. That and he's apparently afraid of power blobs.

Shooting yet again sees assault cannons and lascannons against my ogryn. With a 2+ cover save, the damage is pretty light.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 4

Every turn my opponent continues to delay gives me a chance to consolidate my forces. I've got to take advantage of this as much as I can, lest anything but getting clobbered to be the end result.

Unfortunately for me, however, my stormies run off the board, giving him a kill point to my zero. He could technically win this game just by running away. Given that BA are fast, I'd never catch him in time.

My forces continued to gather around me while my foe, apparently rightly recoiling in terror at my smart and intimidating demeanor continued to sluggishly withdraw from my forces.

I could tell that my men were anxious. No doubt they wanted greatly to hurl themselves at their enemy, and were only prevented from this by my refusal to give the order to attack until my forces were collected. One must always remember, patience is a virtue.

I continued to collect my forces, which prepared for the assault.




Meanwhile, my other stormie squad arrived from reserves. My plan is to use this harassment unit for the ultimate purpose of a harassment unit: to capitalize on my opponent's mistakes. So that he could shoot all his lascannons at my ogryn, my opponent had left his predator dangerously exposed. This time, I'd be able to drop on rear armor, take out my target, and not be exposed to any damage in return. At least my previous stormscapade would be avenged.

The stormies drop in a little off target, but it's good enough for me to not want to risk a worse result. After some run orders are given, they unload into the predator. 2 hits cause 2 penetrations. The end result is shockingly nothing more than a stunned vehicle.

After this point, the field looked like this:



My opponent replies by continuing to squander his dwindling advantage by simply scooting back slightly.

His stunned pred pops smoke, and more light strafing of my ogryn ends the turn.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 5

In my turn, I continue my wheeling action, but I've got a problem. Wretched luck with plasma guns has seen lots of shooting, but little damage. If my opponent is able to get away with his fast predator, then I'm stuck once again. As such, I'm forced to peel off some of my guys to possibly get in melta range, just in case.

Shooting sees more run orders, but things quickly go into assault. 5 stormtroopers get 5 auto-hits with krak grenades on the predator's juicy AV10. The end result is a glance and two penetrating hits for a shaken, weapon destroyed, and an immobilized result. That's 6 penetrating hits now without a wreck.

After this point, the field looked like this:



In response, my opponent falls back. More damage against ogryn.

After this point, the field looked like this:



Currently, my opponent has one kill point to my zero. My opponent picks up the roll to continue. I desperately hope that the game goes on, or this will officially be the lamest game of 40k I've ever played. My opponent rolls a 4.


TURN 6

It took me 6 turns, and I'm not in the field position that I'd like, but I've FINALLY gotten my units into some semblance of coherency. Furthermore, I think I've got them placed in such a way where my opponent can attack them with the terminator squad full of ICs, but NOT be able to charge in with the assault marines. If things go according to plan, I'm going to steal a bag of KP at the last minute without my opponent being able to deliver a single knock-out blow in return.



Plus, things are now starting to get close enough where I'm starting to threaten his immobilized vindicator.

Shooting starts with my meltagunners taking aim at his immobilized predetor. Hopefully between 3 meltaguns and 5 krak grenades I can actually claim a kill point this game. The squad gets Bring it Down from Rhamael, and both meltaguns in melta range hit. The end result is two penetrating hits for another weapon destroyed and a vehicle explodes result. Finally.

The only other thing of note is my ogryn, who are now actually getting pretty low on numbers after being hammered in cover for 6 turns, finally withdrawing.

After this point, the field looked like this:



My oppponent has spent the entire game fleeing from my infantry pile. Instead of using his considerable mobility to attack just one part of my force at a time, he's now facing my forces nearly undivided. Of course, now the game is a draw, so if he has any hopes for a victory, he now needs to charge into these less than ideal circumstances.

After much debate, he decides to go for it:



Our advance thus far had been met with little resistance. The enemy had shown his cowardice by his reluctance to engage with my forces. Just as I was preparing to send back my orderly to bring up my afternoon tea early, I suddenly found my positions under attack.

A great quantity of firepower erupted on my men. The commissars shouted orders at the men to get down, but this seemed to no avail. The unquenchable torrent of fire was only briefly quenched by the advance of the foe crashing straight into my men!




Shooting sees my opponent unload hurricane bolters, heavy bolters, bolt pistols, and assault cannons into my squad. Unfortunately, in order to get into this position, I had to forgo cover. The squad went to ground. Thankfully, much of the firepower was coming from sponsons which, because the vehicles were so close, gave me cover for me. I fail to make any 6+ covers against the assault cannons, but, tragically, I also nearly fail to make any 3+ cover saves against the bolters, seeing more than I'd like fall.

Then comes close combat. As planned, the assault marines were actually just over 6" away from my men, leaving the librarian, priest, and termies to charge in alone. The librarian's power went off, and with rerolling to hit and rerolling to wound, lightning claws did a lot of damage.

In return, 2 power weapon sergeants go after his sanguiniary priest, causing only one wound, which is stopped by his invul save. Meanwhile, 12 power weapon attacks land squarely on his librarian, putting down two wounds. This time, my opponent fails both invul saves seeing the libby go down. Meanwhile, the terminators pass what few armor saves they were forced to make.

After this point, the field looked like this:



Casualties were higher than expected, but in the end, my plan had worked perfectly. With just the terminators in close combat, I can now charge in with the rest of my blobsmen and remove them from play, leaving his assault marines to make a lonely charge against a lot of guys.

In fact, with the librarian and predator gone, I've actually gotten two kill points to his one. Naturally, I hope that the game ends now.

My opponent rolls to continue and puts down a 4 again.


TURN 7

Now that things have gone according to plan, I've just got to seal the deal. I have 3 eviscerators and 12 power weapons all in the area (not to mention a huge pile of regular attacks, and many of those power weapons are about to get a reroll to their attacks when I charge them. Statistically, I should expect to wipe out the squad, or at least NEARLY wipe it out with the coup de grace on the bottom of the turn.

As such, I charge in with everything I have left:



Close combat sees my opponent nearly wiping out the original power blob with his termies. In return, 4 eviscerator attacks puts down a pair of wounds, one of which finally makes it through the priest's 5++. Meanwhile, I do much better than expected with my regular guardsmen against his terminators. Unfortunately, this is actually a bit of BAD luck on my part as it allows my opponent to abuse wound wrapping. 8 power weapon wounds are able to be assigned to just three models, while his thunder hammer dudes are able to get away with just 2 regular armor saves apiece. The lightning claw guys are obviously wiped, but the terminators get away scott free. Thunder hammering in return puts down the remainder of the first blob

After this point, the field looked like this:



Now that his forces are in the thick of it, my opponent needs to throw everything he has into the middle. Right now, I'm winning with 3 KP to 2, and my opponent is going to need all his forces (plus a fair amount of luck) to be able to dig himself out of this mess.

Shooting begins with his LRC opening up against one of my PCSs. Once again, only one sponson can shoot, and once again, I've got cover. Every shot hits, and every shot wounds. I go to ground, figuring that a 3+ cover against 11 wounds should see at least one guy of a 5-man squad still standing. I roll for cover saves, and fail almost every one, seeing the squad wiped.

His nearby tac marines then open up on Rhamael and his boys. I go to ground, figuring that between Rhamael's two wounds and perhaps a 6+ I should still have someone left. I do, but the end result is him just getting assault cannoned.

Then he charged with his assault marines:



Because of the way they were set up, they did predictably little damage, with one of them even falling to a bayonet.

Then came the big show. I've got 3 priests and 6 power weapon guys (and like a dozen regular guys) against just three terminators. They go down, and at least I get a draw out of this. With great gusto, I put down a few armor saves and 8 invul saves. My opponent picks up the dice and passes EVERY SINGLE INVUL SAVE. The two terminators who could attack priests did so, putting one wound apiece on two of them. I roll for rosarius and fail BOTH of them.

After this point, the field looked like this:




FINAL RESULTS

My opponent had 6 KP to my 3 for a Blood Angels victory.

- My opponent made some serious mistakes this game. The most critical one was throwing away his mobility. Instead of attacking my scattered force with a concentrated force, he frittered away his time until I was able to concentrate my forces. Only then, when he stood a much worse chance of winning did he attack my united force. Due to careful movement on my part, it wound up being attacking with HIS forces divided, which very nearly ended in utter disaster for him. Really, the only way he was able to salvage a win from this was through incredibly good luck. The key advantage of Blood Angels is mobility, but it doesn't do anything for you if you don't use it.

- Meanwhile, this is a perfect example of what I'm disliking about Al'Rahem. My forces start turn 1 split apart, and even then have to spend precious time re-consolidating. In this game, I only had a cohesive force on turn 6. Had my opponent taken advantage of this fact, things could have gone really poorly for me. He's definitely going to spend time riding the bench for awhile, at least for the duration of the upcoming escalation league.

- I don't know if it's that whenever I play against Blood Angels I have really bad luck (which I do), or am playing against really tailored lists (which I am), but I'm beginning to see them as more of a hard counter to the guard. Like Dark Eldar, the universally move at least 18" a turn (or have that as their threat range). Unlike Dark Eldar, their vehicles come with AV13, better guns, and the ability to take some VERY scary close combat units. Basically, they're like orks, except that they get a better version of the WAAAAUGH! every single turn. In short, when they're not running and shooting, or using mobility to concentrate their force, they're able to virtually guarantee the charge with their choppy close combat units. I can't even begin to imagine how poorly mech guard would do against a tailored BA list with good luck.

Really, this just reinforces that what my list needs in order to balance out the power blobs is something that can take down fast vehicles at range.

- I came out really unimpressed with the ogryn at the end of this game, but, on further reflection, I shouldn't have been. 3W, T5, in 3+ cover took a pretty brutal amount of hurt over the course of the game. Considering that that firepower COULD have been much more intelligently directed at my power blobs, they actually really did their job this game. If only they could have been able to actually get into close combat with something...

After some time, our forces had ground each other out. Having little left to secure our objective, I quietly withdrew from the battlefield to bravely gather the remnants of our line.

When I returned in the evening, I found the fortress abandoned.

After a hot meal and a evening of light entertainment from the lone remaining member of the Daxos Line Chamber Orchestra (despite all the trauma he had heretofor suffered, he still played the triangle most smartly), we were relieved by reinforcements. After a whole week of retraining, my officers and myself would find ourselves at the head of a new group of men in a new mission, leading just as boldly as before.

In grateful service,

Sir Daxos P. Clinton III - KAP, EKS, ICM - Foleran Armies in his Majesty's Royal Dictate.
Blood Conquers All











This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/01/06 04:45:32


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Sneaky Kommando




I don't understand your list. It has no mobility and the farthest it can shoot is 12 inches? How does it win games?
   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant






what size table do you play on? they seem fairly small

"We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey" Commandant Pat Quinlan 
   
Made in us
Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle




Alabama

Taoofss wrote:I don't understand your list. It has no mobility and the farthest it can shoot is 12 inches? How does it win games?


Have you followed any of the other games?

@Ailaros:

When your Stormies had the lone predator based, why didn't you attach Krak Grenades in your opponent's turn? It was immobilized, was it not?

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Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Sacramento, CA

The BA tactics do make a certain degree of sense here in that they have a rare case of outgunning the Guard army and being seriously contested in assault. The Stormtroopers couldn't hope to do better than a 1:1 exchange on killpoints and probably wouldn't even manage that, so just hanging back and wiping out a single unit by shooting would give them a narrow win. Trying to shoot at the Ogryn of all things was odd - I would have prioritized the command squads myself - but might have made more sense from his side of the table.

Agitator noster fulminis percussus est 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Taoofss wrote:I don't understand your list. It has no mobility and the farthest it can shoot is 12 inches? How does it win games?

By field position. 40k is more than a game of pointing long-range guns down field and rolling dice. Having brutal close-combat ability is very viable in 5th ed, to the point where I've won nearly as many games as I've drawn and lost combined, and that's against some pretty tailored lists and some pretty terrible luck (or both).

The fact is, you don't need long-range killing power to win games of 40k in 5th edition.

General Ian wrote:what size table do you play on? they seem fairly small

6'x4'

The reason it seems a little small in this battle report is because the fighting happened over only a part of the board, which wound up getting cropped out of the photos (in part because they were at a slanty angle, given where I could take the pictures from). The crease on the left side of the board is 1/3ds of the way in from the left.

puma713 wrote:When your Stormies had the lone predator based, why didn't you attach Krak Grenades in your opponent's turn? It was immobilized, was it not?
Yeah, but I was under the impression you could only get into close combat in the assault phase. You can't consolidate with vehicles, and you can't get locked into close combat with them, I guess I've always just assumed that means that you can't continue to use grenades just because you're in base contact.

Raxmei wrote:The BA tactics do make a certain degree of sense here in that they have a rare case of outgunning the Guard army and being seriously contested in assault. The Stormtroopers couldn't hope to do better than a 1:1 exchange on killpoints and probably wouldn't even manage that, so just hanging back and wiping out a single unit by shooting would give them a narrow win. Trying to shoot at the Ogryn of all things was odd - I would have prioritized the command squads myself - but might have made more sense from his side of the table.

Part of it was that I was hiding my officer squads behind stuff most of the game.

As for the stormies, 4 BS4 plasma shots against AV10 had a better than half chance of wrecking a vehicle outright. It's just one of those ways that luck went against me this game. That said, I've had less than positive results with plasma stormies against BA in the past.

The real problem with this game was that my opponent could outmaneuver me AND out-chop me in close combat (and, with the way my opponent build his list, ALSO out-shot me). If either of those had been different, then I would have gotten in and kicked some ass. It's only because of the way the BA codex is set up that prevented me from just charging headlong straight into my opponent.

The more I play against BA, the cheesier they feel...

Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

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Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




I agree you don't need an army with long-range guns. Armies without them generally have high mobility or a way to close in on the enemy. There isnt a single successful army that has neither.

This specific list lacks both mobility and range. Especially if you where playing on a bigger board, your entire army would get kited around and shot to pieces.

Your opponent made several mistakes. If he just kept he tanks relatively close to one another and just took pot shots at your troops from a corner, he would have won easily.

I'm not saying blobs dont work. I'm saying blobs without any fire support does not work.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Actually, given that infantry can run now, and that there's limited board space, my army has plenty of mobility.

The only reason why this game stands out is because my opponent ALWAYS has 6"+ more mobility than I do. Normally, this wouldn't even be a problem, as my opponent would only have limited space to run to, but in this case, my opponent had more mobility AND at least as much choppiness as I had.

The fact that I always needed to stay between 19" and 23" shows much more about the blood angels codex than about my army. If you don't believe me, feel free to check out the other games in this series.

And actually, you will note that once I was able to make my force cohesive, I was able to get in the thick of things (or at least seriously goad my opponent into such). Ironically, Al'Rahem HURT my mobility this game, rather than helped it.

If blobs without long-range support didn't work, then I'd have lost an awful lot more games by now (unless I was consistantly really lucky, but as it stands I'm consistently UNlucky, so...)




This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/01/06 04:46:42


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Sacramento, CA

If the Guard army had the ability to advance with Ailaros's customary boldness then yes they would catch the opposing army even in a spearhead deployment, though the clock would be pretty low by the time they forced the confrontation. Basically he wasn't confident in his ability to see off an assault on his opponent's terms (8 assault terminators and 10 assault marines, maybe some preliminary boltering against a 43-man blob) so he couldn't force the issue and thus died slowly for half the game. Apparently the BA player wasn't confident in the reverse either so he evaded the decisive battle and settled for killing his opponent slowly for most of it.

What fundamentally cost the Guard player the battle was that this army relies on advancing boldly and did not do so. If the BA hadn't hung their Predator the game would have been unwinnable for the Guard by turn 3. By the time they were ready to advance it was late enough that the BA could simply have run out the clock for at worst a draw. Of course the alternative for the Guard was taking a coordinated BA assault against an uncoordinated defense.

On the BA side there is some justification for their reluctance to take the charge. Their initial assault would only have killed off half a blob and Guard have a reputation for winning the attrition battle.

Agitator noster fulminis percussus est 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






NJ, USA

Good report as usual.

I can only think that adding your HS back into your army can definitely help with taking out distant targets. I miss your ML's.

Anyway, well played, seems the stormies are just rubbish! I don't think you have had too much luck with them, I am surprised though no Marbo this time around! He is crucial for the mental 40k game! Opponents always worry especially SM.

Also, the BA players list was, ehhhhh. His tactics were also a waste. It seems he had an army kitted out for assault/shooting. Too many mixed units to really be fully effective. In regards to the current BA train of thought, it is either mech or JP, he has both. I believe you did get lucky with such a list. Most BA lists around here rock fully kitted CC units and almost no tanks, or razorspammers. They seem to clean power blobs/ork hordes away without a scratch!

Anyway, I also must say I do miss the LRBTs in your list. I have found running two LRBTs can be invaluable, especially when it draws alot of fire, which would normally be directed towards your Ogryns. Those Ogryns need to kill!

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Sorry, I cannot agree.

I think it was absolutely correct for the BA player, to not charge all the time.
The idea to attack a "flank" with the BA speed is hilarious, cause
a power blob army simply has no flanks, by classic means. Power Blob armies
are like spider webs, once youre in, you won't come out, alive.

Reading this report, (I really love your reports) sounds more like a demoralized guard commander,
whoos tactics have been completely sniffed and wasted.

All in all, a draw would have been a fair result. The 6:3 was last minute bad luck.

keep it up!
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Flarack wrote:Sorry, I cannot agree.

I think it was absolutely correct for the BA player, to not charge all the time.
The idea to attack a "flank" with the BA speed is hilarious, cause
a power blob army simply has no flanks, by classic means. Power Blob armies
are like spider webs, once youre in, you won't come out, alive.


Can't agree more with you. The blood angels player did use his superior mobility but in a different way than usual. It is one of the best tactics to focus on the softest units the enemy has and meanwhile keep your soft units safe. In a kill point mission. But in an objective game that would be pure stupidity as you have to go for the objectives and plow through the enemy.

   
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Thanks again for another enjoyable writeup. It was a bit of a slow dance until the end, but not all battles are epic. It certainly doesn't stop me appreciating the effort writing them up!

   
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Geneva

Hey
Maybe it's just me but imho the BA player's tactic was definitly not bad, but pretty... well, lame^^ The fact that at turn six between Blood Angels and a CC based Guard army, there was still no real action seemed kinda boring. I guess here it's just a personal decision wether you want to play strategicaly or just have fun.
@Ailaros: As much as I support CC focused guardsmen, I would advise you to get something shooty in. This fight just proved, that your enemies can pretty much move and shoot as much as they want without taking any damage. If you dropped the Stormtroopers (Who I like fluff-wise but not in the actual game) and get some heavy weapon squads with lascanons or rocket launchers (1 lasca 2 rls worked pretty well for me) or some LRBT as someone advised befor, you would put your enemy under more pressure to risk close combat. If you had bombarded the BA from a far with lets say two HWT or two LRBT then he might not have had that much stuff to run away. (Even though your luck with the Stormtroopers was just bad but hey, this game is very dependant on luck).
Oh yeah... why the hell did Al'Rahem come from your side of the table? Bad through or did I miss something here :S If he had come from a flank he would have been a lot more usefull
Still I enjoy your battle reports
FFE

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A strange place

Well the Ba's players tactic is lame, but it works.

example:
It was a 750 point match: my marines vs lots of boys.
The entire time i drove around in rhino's, Weakening one Squad. And then in turn 5 i unleashed hell on that one squad.
I 'd won by one KP.

So it's a viable tactic if you have superior mobility. But it doesn't lead to a fun game.

@ Ailaros I believe it's the lack of long range AT that cost you the game.
Cause if you could have shot some things down. Then they couldn't run away.
And then it would have turned into a brawl. Wich would have increased your chances of winning.



 
   
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Alabama

Ailaros wrote:
puma713 wrote:When your Stormies had the lone predator based, why didn't you attach Krak Grenades in your opponent's turn? It was immobilized, was it not?
Yeah, but I was under the impression you could only get into close combat in the assault phase. You can't consolidate with vehicles, and you can't get locked into close combat with them, I guess I've always just assumed that means that you can't continue to use grenades just because you're in base contact.


If you're based with a vehicle in CC in your opponent's turn, you get your swings (or grenades, in this case). There's a specific caveat for it in the BRB.

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The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Nice looking army as always. As for your ogryn, have you thought about getting a single chimera and putting them into it for some applied mobility/power?


Flarack wrote:Sorry, I cannot agree.

I think it was absolutely correct for the BA player, to not charge all the time.


while i agree charging ALL the time is not the answer, the BA player ultimately turtled against foot guard with a mobile assault army for 6 turns. it worked for him THIS time but i don't think you can count on that. ailaros' schtick is probably pretty well known in his gaming club (assaulty blob guard with a powerblob outflanker) and the BA player should have used that mobility to attack a flank away from a short board edge and not just hang back. the opponent was basically losing all game until the BOTTOM of turn 7 including two rolls for end of game. he won simply on luck, not strategy. can you also with an assaulty tau army? sure, it's possible but doing so once doesn't mean that it's likely to happen again.

Taoofss wrote:I don't understand your list. It has no mobility and the farthest it can shoot is 12 inches? How does it win games?


lol, its a good thing you have about 26 battlereports you can access here to research your own answer. it surprisingly works a fair amount of the time.
   
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Alabama

warboss wrote:
Taoofss wrote:I don't understand your list. It has no mobility and the farthest it can shoot is 12 inches? How does it win games?


lol, its a good thing you have about 26 battlereports you can access here to research your own answer. it surprisingly works a fair amount of the time.


Right. It works because Ailaros limits where his opponent can run. What good is mobility, if you've got nowhere to go? A giant powerblob eats up one half of the board when Al'Rahem comes in and his powerblobs advance up the field, closing his side of the field as well. So that gives you a quarter to manuever in. It doesn't matter how mobile your army is, a quarter of the table isn't a lot of space. Now, it is important to note that it doesn't always work out this way - but the threat of the board closing in on you sometimes seems to catch opponents off guard and, all of a sudden, they're cornered in with nowhere to go.

As warboss pointed out, check out his other 26 batreps and you'll see how well his army works (even trying different builds - I, for one, am said to see Marbo go).
   
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Ireland

Great report as usual!
Hard luck on the loss though, bloody space marine vampires

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Sarasota, FL

Interesting report, with solid tactics on both sides the dice really decided it by continuing the game to the 7th (and turning the pivotal CC an unexpected direction). Must have been a quick game since nothing happened until turn 6.

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The only thing I can say about the BA players tactics is that if he had rushed you the first turn and got into assault with most of his force, the game would have been very different. Having a split opponent is a field day for BA, especially more Assault-oriented BA. His inclusion of some firepower worked against his CC. If he was completely CC oriented, no power blob can generally stand in a BA's way at that point. Also with Al'Rahem, your "Ace" is not always a guarantee! We see what his Termies did to one power blob in the initial assault, just imagine if he had done that turn 1, with FULL support from the assault marines.

If he had attacked your power blob on one of the extreme flanks, I am sure he could of assaulted them without worry from Al'Rahem tying him up for combat some more. With that said, all other fire power could of been concentrated on Al'Rahem.

I am half-tempted to drive out to IL just to get a game in with you Aliaros with my JP BA. I think it would be a glorious bloodbath for both of us!

Also I understand the reason why the BA player played the game the way he did, I am just sure though if he had been more aggressive from the start, he wouldn't of had to rely on "luck" on the last turn to win, victory could of been secured much much sooner.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/06 18:04:10


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Vallejo, CA

puma713 wrote:If you're based with a vehicle in CC in your opponent's turn, you get your swings (or grenades, in this case). There's a specific caveat for it in the BRB.

Really? What's the page number on that? (at work, understandably have no rule book)

Fire_for_effect wrote:Oh yeah... why the hell did Al'Rahem come from your side of the table? Bad through or did I miss something here :S If he had come from a flank he would have been a lot more usefull

Bringing Al'Rahem in from the right would have been pure suicide. It would have allowed him to turn his force around and destroy Al'Rahem for a bag o' KP, with not ALL that much risk of losing out in return. There's no way that 500 points of guardsmen would have been able to fend off 1850 points of blood angels all by themselves.

MadMaverick76 wrote:Anyway, well played, seems the stormies are just rubbish! I don't think you have had too much luck with them, I am surprised though no Marbo this time around! He is crucial for the mental 40k game! Opponents always worry especially SM.

Yeah, this is the second time I've had stormies against BA, and have had them sort of fold. Of course, that this was a KP game didn't help, but the real problem is that BA armies have the mobility of DE armies, except their vehicles actually have armor. That and I couldn't roll a 5+ for vehicle damage.

As for Marbo... meh. He's nice, but he doesn't actually add that much to my list (I'm ALREADY good against lots of the things that Marbo is good against). He was fun to play with, but not necessarily effective. In this game, for example, he would have just thrown away another KP.

sillyboy wrote:@ Ailaros I believe it's the lack of long range AT that cost you the game.

Raxmei wrote:What fundamentally cost the Guard player the battle was that this army relies on advancing boldly and did not do so.

Fire_for_effect wrote:This fight just proved, that your enemies can pretty much move and shoot as much as they want without taking any damage.

MadMaverick76 wrote:It seems he had an army kitted out for assault/shooting. Too many mixed units to really be fully effective. In regards to the current BA train of thought, it is either mech or JP, he has both. I believe you did get lucky with such a list.

I actually very much disagree with the last of these quotes. The thing is, my army is very good when it get get the charge in on things. If it can't get the charge in, it's still pretty darn good if I get charged AND I'm able to support my units once things get stuck in.

Had my opponent brought a purely shooty BA army, I would have been able to charge in without fear of reprisal. If my opponent had brought a purely choppy BA army, then he would have been forced to charge in, or he wouldn't have been able to do any damage.

The real problem for me in this game was that he had more shooty stuff than I did, AND he ALSO had the potential for greater local superiority in close combat power because of his mobility. The latter meant I couldn't just charge in (especially while waiting for Al'Rahem's stuff to arrive), and the former meant that he could sit back and shoot me. Being able to BOTH out shoot me AND prevent me from getting into close combat was what really killed me this game. Had his list been any different, or if deployment hadn't been spearhead (because he would have had MUCH less space to run around with), or if the mission hadn't been kill points (in which case casualties wouldn't have mattered, and I could have just charged in regardless), things would have been much easier for me. It's not that I need long-range firepower per se, it's that I need to not have bad luck against tailored lists on spearhead kill points games.

But, of course, does that mean that I should just give up and only go for a draw against DE, BA, and jetbike eldar on spearhead annihilation? Never!

I actually have something cathartic planned for next week...

Raxmei wrote:On the BA side there is some justification for their reluctance to take the charge. Their initial assault would only have killed off half a blob and Guard have a reputation for winning the attrition battle.

Flarack wrote:I think it was absolutely correct for the BA player, to not charge all the time.

The idea to attack a "flank" with the BA speed is hilarious, cause a power blob army simply has no flanks, by classic means.

Zaephyr wrote:The blood angels player did use his superior mobility but in a different way than usual. It is one of the best tactics to focus on the softest units the enemy has and meanwhile keep your soft units safe.

sillyboy wrote:(running away and shooting is) a viable tactic if you have superior mobility. But it doesn't lead to a fun game.

Right, so as far as I could tell, there were two things my opponent could have seriously disassembled my list.

The first was to just outshoot me. Hurricane bolters, assault cannons, and heavy bolters were plentiful in my opponent's list. As someone mentioned, he could have just picked off a couple of squads and then used the fact that all of his vehicles are fast to just run away into the corner and run out the clock.

The second was an early game attack on what I had fielded. Power blobs are good, but power blobs are NOT invincible. If, on turn 2, he would have driven down, shot with his vehicles, and charged in with ALL of his forces, well, look at this picture again...



My opponent was able to nearly wipe out an entire 40-man power blob in a single go, and that was WITHOUT getting the charge in with the assault squad and WITHOUT shooting his baal predator or tac squad full of bolters at it.

My opponent had the ability to launch almost all of his 1850 points against a single power blob and a squad of ogryn. Had he done this, he would have nearly wiped them out. Al'Rahem might have arrived to continue the close combats before it was too late, but they would have been raked over by hurricane bolter and assault cannon fire before they would have made it in.

Things would have been VERY ugly for me, especially given that my opponent would have offered only 4 KP in his close combat-ness, while I was offering 7 in mine, some of which were on ICs that could be picked out.

In the end, instead of sitting and shooting, my opponent spent most of this time awkwardly moving around with his vehicles, which meant that the casualties he inflicted with firepower were very light.

Likewise, instead of using all of his forces to slam into just part of mine and then wipe them out (or seriously cripple) my forces with an assault while my forces were still divided, he waited until I was able to unite my force, allowing me to do to his terminators what I did to Khorne Berzerkers in this game (which I wouldn't have been able to do if my opponent had attacked low enough, which he could have, given his extreme mobility).

In the end, instead of shredding up my forces and/or charging into them while they were piecemeal, he squandered his time and wound up facing against a united front. The end result, well...

warboss wrote: the opponent was basically losing all game until the BOTTOM of turn 7 including two rolls for end of game. he won simply on luck, not strategy. can you also with an assaulty tau army? sure, it's possible but doing so once doesn't mean that it's likely to happen again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/06 18:30:45


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I believe the rules for hitting vehicles is in the section on assaulting vehicle, pg 63, under the heading successive turns.

Basically, it allows you to make another CC swing (or grenade) against a vehicle that has not moved out of base contact with the squad.

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Alabama

Ailaros wrote:
puma713 wrote:If you're based with a vehicle in CC in your opponent's turn, you get your swings (or grenades, in this case). There's a specific caveat for it in the BRB.

Really? What's the page number on that? (at work, understandably have no rule book)



calypso2ts wrote:I believe the rules for hitting vehicles is in the section on assaulting vehicle, pg 63, under the heading successive turns.

Basically, it allows you to make another CC swing (or grenade) against a vehicle that has not moved out of base contact with the squad.


Right. I'm at work too, so I'll have to get back with you, but calypso2ts has it right. If they were fool enough not to move away (or you immobilized/stunned them), then you get to keep hacking away at them. Or, in your case, plant another set of grenades on them.

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The Battle Barge Buffet Line

calypso2ts wrote:I believe the rules for hitting vehicles is in the section on assaulting vehicle, pg 63, under the heading successive turns.

Basically, it allows you to make another CC swing (or grenade) against a vehicle that has not moved out of base contact with the squad.


yup, if you're still in contact on your opponent's turn, you can make close combat attacks against the vehicle.

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Do you think it would have worked for you if you dropped in your stormies near your blobs and just stayed put the whole game? That way he would have had to come to you.
   
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rivers64 wrote:Do you think it would have worked for you if you dropped in your stormies near your blobs and just stayed put the whole game? That way he would have had to come to you.


but the ba player was perfectly content driving around and shooting up the ig.
   
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Vallejo, CA

Well, see, that was it. I assumed that because he was driving, not shooting, that he was going to charge in. If he was just sitting there shooting, I'd assume he was pursuing a shooting strategy, and would probably have done things differently.

At the top of 2, I didn't yet know that he would be moving instead of shooting AND not assaulting. Of course, by the time my other stormies showed up, they were able to hit a target of opportunity.

Thanks for the heads up on the ruling as well.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/07 01:55:05


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Alabama

Yep, it's page 63, Ailaros:

"If a vehicle that has been assaulted, and has survived, does not move in its successive Movement phase, enemy models will still be in base contact with it during it's Shooting and Assault phase. . . ."

". . .Units that still have models in base contact with a vehicle in its Assault phase may attack it again, just as in a normal ongoing combat. . ."

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Love your reports, A. Keep it up!

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