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So after having my butt handed to me by two of the umpteen-zillion Blood Angels players at the last tournament I played at (of 16 players, 6 were Blood Angels), I've decided I need more plasma in my list. I present the following:

--HQ-- 2000/2000

1 Shas'el 87
-Plasma Rifle
-Missile Pod
-Multi-tracker
2 Bodyguard 164
-Plasma Rifle x2
-Missile Pod x2
-Targeting Array x2
--HW Multi-tracker

1 Shas'el 87
-Plasma Rifle
-Missile Pod
-Multi-tracker
2 Bodyguard 164
-Plasma Rifle x2
-Missile Pod x2
-Targeting Array x2
--HW Multi-tracker

--Elites--

3 Crisis Suit 159
-TL Missile Pod x3
-Targeting Array x3

3 Crisis Suit 159
-TL Missile Pod x3
-Targeting Array x3

--Troops--

6 Fire warriors 60

10 Kroot Carnivores 106
6 Kroot Hounds

10 Kroot Carnivores 112
7 Kroot Hounds

10 Kroot Carnivores 112
7 Kroot Hounds

--Fast Attack--

2 Piranha 150
-Fusion Blaster x2
-Disruption Pod
-Target Lock
-Targeting Array x2

2 Piranha 150
-Fusion Blaster x2
-Disruption Pod
-Target Lock
-Targeting Array x2

2 Piranha 150
-Fusion Blaster x2
-Disruption Pod
-Target Lock
-Targeting Array x2

--Heavy Support--

2 Broadside Battlesuits 170
-A.S.S. x2
-Team Leader
-Target Lock

2 Broadside Battlesuits 170
-A.S.S. x2
-Team Leader
--Target Lock

What I get: double the number of plasma while keeping the same number of crisis suits on the board (12).
What I lose: 1 broadside, 2 kroot hounds, a unit of BS4 twin-linked missile pod suits in exchange for BS4 plasma/missile pod suits.

Thoughts?

If you are looking to knock off MEQ, why not go for a Hammerhead with Ion cannon? BS4, higher strength, its got 3x the range, and is always 3 shots (instead of rapid fire). I would say 1 Ion>2 plasma rifles. The only question: is a hammerhead move survivable than a team of XV8s? Thats up for interpretation, and could go either way.

Nice to see you got the plama way

I remember our conversation about the missile pods and all I was thinking about was MEQ

Hope it will be better for you ni the future

I would drop the 2nd commander and the body guards for Elite slot Fireknives. You'll save a ton of points. Points you could use to say... buy some shield drones for those Broadsides... Because if you don't they are going to be toast QUICK. And since they are your only real tank hunters, if your opponent brings a Landraider, puts it in reserves, and then focus fires down your broadsides... (only takes four lascannon wounds to do it, in your current configuration) that Land raider will roll into play mid game with zero models on the board that can do anything about it.

TL;DR: Downgrade the 2nd HQ to fill your 3rd Elite slot and shield drone your Broadsides, so they don't get pwn't.

2 Bodyguard 164 2 body guards but mods for 3 models ??
-Plasma Rifle x3
-Missile Pod x3
-Multi-tracker x3
--HW Targeting Array <----cant be hardwired

h/w the multi-tracker and i didnt add up your list but you may have extra poonts if your figured in the 3set...37 per hq group 74 for the 2....

2 Piranha 150
-Fusion Blaster x2
-Disruption Pod <---do they all have disruption pods?
-Target Lock <---- only 1 has target lock or do they both?
-Targeting Array x2

my opinion drop 1 group of piranha's and 1 kroot hound for a:
Hammerhead with
railgun
burst cannon's
multi-tracker/flechette discharger<--- same point value but depends if you want your opent to shot at you and not assult or be able to cover alot of ground and still fire
disruption pods
for 165points that why you dont have to get in there face to pop tanks also messing up there target priority

my opinion.

In reverse order:

@Neroku: I'd actually have to drop a piranha team and three hounds, which can be done, but I like the 'march blocking' aspect of piranha whereby I can use them as road blocks to funnel my opponent's movement in one direction or another. or they can just try to kill them. Either way, they're delayed at least a turn and I might actually kill something with them. However, I do like your advice and I'll try it next time I play.

PS: I know that targeting arrays can't be hard-wired but multi-trackers can and they're the same points value so it's no biggie. Also, in the piranha teams, 1 has a d-pod and 1 has a target lock, because each team only needs one of both. With the target lock, you just designate a target for the unit and then the target lock piranha can target something else; there's no need for both to have target locks because you are still targeting two different units. As for the d-pod, the rules for cover saves say that as long as half the unit or more is in cover, the whole squad gets cover. Because the d-pod gives half the unit a cover save, it gives the whole unit a cover save. Neat how that works, isn't it?

@Cottonjaw: as much as people tell me that my suits are fragile without shield drones, they're usually the last thing to die in my army no matter what. I haven't seen a decrease in their survivability without the shield drones (and I ran them with drones for a long time). Yeah, they're fragile, but you can't really help that. They're glass cannons, just accept it and make the best of the situation.

And in my experience the only people who run lascannon landraiders are bad list-builders. If they're running lascannon landraiders, I know they're running termies in them, which means as soon as I kill the landraider (which I will), I neutralize about 600 points of their army for at least two turns (landraider + 5-man termie squad + libby). and that's fine with me.

As for shifting the HQ unit to an elite squad: the reason I have fireknives in the HQ slot is because I can make them BS4, which I can't do if they're in the elite slot. I'm sorry, I'm not paying 20 points for a BS3 plasma gun. That crap might fly for the IG, but it sure doesn't for Tau.

@Praetor: I've never really thought about it, but off the top of my head I'd say because a unit of crisis suits are probably worth more mileage than an ion cannon hammerhead. it's not just MEQ I'm worried about--I'm specifically worried about MEQ + FNP. I can kill marines. It's when they don't die that I start having problems. Enter plasma rifles. The Ion cannon won't get rid of their FNP and it won't kill termies (granted plasma doesn't always kill termies, but it kills termies more often than AP3).

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I appreciate. I generally keep my own counsel but I might try some things out. Right now I'm just waiting for GW to come out with the new Tau codex...you know, the one where I can take the ion cannon as an upgrade on my d-fish. Oh, that'll be the day.

Knute

I consider making the best of the situation, make them as survivable as possible. You're enabling their faults, instead of mitigating them as much as possible.

Adding shield drones doesn't detract for the "cannon" but it does bulletproof the glass, a bit.

Yeah, but I make another important part of the list less effective by doing it. there are gonna be trade-offs no matter how you slice it. At this point I choose to err on the side of more guns and more accurate guns.

Knute wrote:
As for the d-pod, the rules for cover saves say that as long as half the unit or more is in cover, the whole squad gets cover. Because the d-pod gives half the unit a cover save, it gives the whole unit a cover save. Neat how that works, isn't it?

Definitely didn't know that lol

As for the point values of the targeting array and Multi-Tracker and target lock I know about the points and only needing 1 just was wondering and being over critical lol

I like the piranha wall did you ever think to add flettchet discharger? Tell your enemy what it does and they can choose to charge each squadron or let them blast away at ther units but if they charge and you have the dischargers on both of the piranha then they take 2 wounds each model gl saving against 2 each it gets crazy with bigger groups of piranha +5= 1dead squad

Acording to the way dischargers info is written they arnt used just once so its great 10points it'll ether force your opponent to stay away from you and alow you to corral them and use your ap 1 blaster to slowly kill the unit or they charge your piranha and take a large number of wounds and risk losing the squad its a great strategy unless they have a large number of high ap weapons but then they will still soak up alot of shots

You see, people keep trying to talk me into flechette launchers, but I can honestly count on one hand the number of times any of my piranha have ever been assaulted. On top of that, the odds of me killing what charges me are actually quite low, because my opponents will rarely charge me with anything that would be deterred by flechette launchers in the first place, specifically things like marines, nob squads, or any other dedicated CC unit. They're just not going to care if they lose one or two guys. At the end of the day, they're just not worth the points.

what i do is i take the piranhas and shove them down the throat on a squad that would get hurt by them. Then they are forced to charge. I take 3+ in a group so its always a high number of wounds. I've ether killed full squads doing this or at the very least half of a squad. Mabie i just get lucky but it works well for me.
oh Well just a sugestion.....My lists always have ether 3units of Railheads or 3x3 squads of piranha depends on the situation but i hardly ever play under 1250....