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Okay, at first this rumour seemed to weird to post when it first appeared on Warseer on 13th March, but now there are more signs it might be true after all. Still take all the salt you need:

13th March:

Erazmus_M_Wattle wrote:Okay! If you look back over the discussion you'll note that people have noticed a drop in quantities of metal blisters.
The price of tin just goes up all the time. We no GW wish to stop using it at some point. Which point?
A source of mine that isn't GW, combined with a rumour from one of my contacts suggests that it might change sooner than expected.
Now there not going to make all those blisters in "injected" plastic. Not metal and not polystyrene. So that leaves?...

14th March:

Erazmus_M_Wattle wrote:Well bearing in mind this is only a rumour. I use the same silicone and resin supplier as GW. In one of their most recent newsletters they had an article about GW. The article was about how FW had been using their products for years but now they were working closer than ever with GW to implement new techniques and production methods. I read it and just thought FW.
But something one of my contacts said suddenly made me think of the article. So resin blisters seams exactly what we'll be getting. I could be wrong. That I'll admit but I like the sound of it.
(...)
They're called Bentley Chemicals and to be honest their article didn't really reveal anything. They just seemed proud that GW was one of their customers.
To answer the other posters. Resin dust is harmful but I wouldn't expect polystyrene dust to be any better for you. Resins are petrochemical products the sane as plastic after all.
I wouldn't expect them to use the same resins as FW cos in my opinion it's not the best for thin parts. I got some Khorne terminator bits recently and damn are the stylised horns fragile.

22nd March:

Harry wrote:You have to start somewhere.
You are doing very well for a first rumour.

And today's note by Battlefield Berlin, a big retailer in Germany:

Just got note from GW that they will stop the production of metal products for at least 3 months. The Sales guys don`t know why, most items are already out of stock, so I guess they stopped productions already some weeks ago...

Posted by Maccwar over at Warseer, and the retailer denied it to be a 1st April joke.

On one side I like resin for allowing better and finer sculpts to be made. But I am not convinced that it is adequate for mass production as a teen toy because of hazardous resin dust and difficulties with getting the mould release off the model (depends on manufacturer, some sell precleaned).

So all this may or may not fit with several metal boxes and blisters being removed from stores. We will see.



Edit 2nd April:

Harry felt the urge to confirm this rumour in a non-cryptic way. And you should never question the confirmations by the pieman

sigur wrote:If that's true this means a massive change. I'm not convinced until we see any facts so let's see.

It is a HUGE change.
It is not an April fools joke. (I have known about it for a while it is just unfortunate timing for the rumour to break).
It is really happening.

mechanicalhorizon from Privateer Press wrote:If what I've been told is correct they are going to be spin-casting the resin using vulcanized silicone molds, the same molds used for metal casting just with a different cutting technique more suited to the flow of resin. We had in the past retrofitted some old molds for metal casting to test out resin casting and they worked fairly well, 3even better with some extra cutting.

So if GW is sticking with this method, and they probably are since spin casting resin is mostly the same as spin casting metal, it also uses much of the same equipment so there would be no extra set-up cost.

If this is correct than they can still use the existing masters to make new molds.

Even is they were to move towards an RTV-type material you could still use the existing masters to make new molds.

There really is no reason for GW to stop making any product because of a change in materials.

This is what I heard.

yabbadabba wrote:GW have done this a few times before whether by range or the entire product. They are not operating at full capacity currently. They will know what models sell slowly, which sell quick and how much stock is across their sales channels and at HQ. They will have ramped up production on some lines to tide them over, and stopped making others sometime last year (yes some things do sell that slow). In short I think you are selling them short on planning.

What this seems to suggest to me is GW are looking to sell through enough metal stock within 3 months to minimalise on the amount left in the system when they switch to resin. That also suggests that for whatever reason they expect the resin to be in more demand than the metal when its released. Read into that what you will.

The final thing is about resin dust. I can't see GW deliberately cutting off their kiddy market. Which means either they are seriously going to ramp up the plastics, and leave a few kits as resins that can only be sold to a certain age group, or they have a resin/resin process that won't cause this concern.
Or they have decided to love Vets again

All of that sounds right. I have had the same thoughts.

Except the "they have decided to love vets again".

I have been buying metal miniatures from Citadel for 30 years.
To be honest ... I'm gutted.

Just seems in efficient to me - a way for GW to save money, but put a product out there that is impractical for their target audience (12 year olds). And as I said in the other thread, if their QA is anything like Forge World’s, then they’d damn well better get their plastic tech up to snuff and start making anything and everything in plastic.

Not to mention that the change to resin will likely trigger an across-the-board price rise to ‘make up for production costs’ or whatever nonsense they spin in their next financial report.

The hazardous substance issue and the fragility issue both require a solution before a sane corporation would consider mass-producing in resin. Perhaps GW is working with Bentley to solve these issues at the same time?

I would find this doubtfull as resin is so much more difficult (and hazordous from the dust) to work with. It doesn't seem totally impossible though.

Hmmm, so it wasnt a bloody joke

Have to say though, i prefer working with resin than metal.
Granted its alot more fragile and the dust isnt too good for you.

Metal however is just as annoying in its own ways.
Mainly down to bent parts in blisters (small weapons, horns etc)

Not only that, but i find super glue bonds resin far better than metal.



So, i have my fingers crossed.

The hazardous dust thing is a bit overstated. I mean, it's not like breathing plastic filings is good for you either, but no one harps on about that.

Another concern is that resin kits require somewhat more preparation than metal and plastic. I wouldn't dream of putting together a resin kit without washing the parts first to get rid of the mould release agent. You think Timmy 12-Year-Old is gonna want to wash his models before he can start playing with them?

H.B.M.C. wrote:You think Timmy 12-Year-Old is gonna want to wash his models before he can start playing with them?

Your comment implies GW cares what their customers want, do, or think.

How very uncharacteristic of you.

HBMC - You know as well as i do mate, health and safety is bollocks these days.
However, they have to cover thier arses.

Also, i wash metal before i put it together.
Mould release prevents some glues working.
Also have to score cross hatching into it for a good bond.

That said Tin is rather poisonous to humans too. So filing pewter isn't that good for you either.

Prep work for resin would slow things down.

But I find it easier to work with.
But if they would go for Resin/plastic hybrids well, surely then FW and GW prices would match...

As in justify a massive increase.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The hazardous dust thing is a bit overstated. I mean, it's not like breathing plastic filings is good for you either, but no one harps on about that.

The 'hazardous dust thing' is far from being 'a bit overstated'. When working on Forge World or other large resin pieces where you're going to be doing a lot of filing/cutting--you'd have to be rather dumb to not at the very least wear a dust mask.

Anyways, if they change up the resin manufacturing process(which is likely, since they'd be moving it to full-on mass production, unlike the way FW does it) it's possible they could set it up so that parts don't require cutting/filing and components are more interchangeable.

Another concern is that resin kits require somewhat more preparation than metal and plastic. I wouldn't dream of putting together a resin kit without washing the parts first to get rid of the mould release agent. You think Timmy 12-Year-Old is gonna want to wash his models before he can start playing with them?

Depends on the resin kit. AFV Club Taiwan has plenty of resin kit components that don't require washing to remove a mould release agent.

And frankly: "Timmy 12-year-old" likely wouldn't wash his models if he was new to the hobby and still in the whole "enamel paint over bare material" stage that so many people assume Timmy 12-year-old to be in. There's plenty of older people, who supposedly have "a large amount of experience" with resin models and don't wash them.

It's not an isolated phenomenon to Timmy 12-year-old, HB

Jackal wrote:Also, i wash metal before i put it together.
Mould release prevents some glues working.
Also have to score cross hatching into it for a good bond.

Yeah and there are people who wash plastic models for the same reasons. My point is that washing plastic or metal models isn't necessary. For resin on the other hand, I've had trouble getting them to go together if they weren't washed first... and sometimes they feel slimy to the touch. Resin needs washing, the others really don't most of the time.

I just can't see GW mass producing models that require that much prep when their target audience is people who aren't even teenagers yet.

H.B.M.C. wrote:You think Timmy 12-Year-Old is gonna want to wash his models before he can start playing with them?

You might be right that some Timmies are reluctant to wash

I'd imagine they would have to make new moulds which would mean no mould lines to clean (yay) but the usual problems with mass produced resin like uneven surfaces and dust and shavings that need to be scrubbed off. If new moulds are required though, there will be a loooot of discontinued models.

If they go the spartan games route, hurrah, dystopian wars have the best quality models I've ever worked with by quite a large margin. If they go the battlefront route, meh, average quality resin, probably equal in annoyance to current flash heavy GW metal models. If they go the forgeworld route then it will probably end up taking less time to sculpt your own model from scratch rather than clean them.

Actually, I'm wrong. It's not a case of whether Timmy Twelve-Year-Old will want to wash his new toy soliders, it's whether he'll even know that he has to in the first place.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually, I'm wrong. It's not a case of whether Joe Schmoe Who Refuses To Read Forge World's "Working with Resin" FAQ will want to wash his new toy soliders, it's whether he'll even know that he has to in the first place.

Fixed that for you. Quit hating on kids, grumpy!

What if they did a mix of Resin and Plastic.Ok here is the scenario.For example,I have an old Berserker metal body plastic parts.Well make the body out of resin and the weapon and part option out of plastic.I think that would sound more like a proper scenario.That would make for a good kit.

Flames of War and Ramshackle use quite cheap resin, FoW produces in Malaysia with obvious quality control problems.
Maybe the return of FW resin production from China to UK is somehow related to this.

And resin dust is VERY aggressive and cancerogen when inhaled.

Resin dust is more pervasive than plastic dust, all resin kits need sawing and sanding and you produce copious amounts of dust which goes into the atmosphere even when you have a bowl of water handy. Sure plastic dust isn't good for you, but that doesn't seem to be produced in volume. Most plastic kits you cut off the sprue, touch up with a file, job done.

People may pooh-pooh health and safety, but resin dust is nasty stuff and I'm pretty sure sale is restricted to children which is the reason GW changed over to lead-free alloys in the figures in the first place. Stores won't be able to supply kids with resin figures so unless it's suddenly non-toxic that's a non-starter.

Then there's all the issues. Resin figures are fragile, you can't toss them around like metal and plastic, the techniques involved in working with resin are more demanding on the hobbyist than plastic and metal. It's not child friendly by any stretch, unless they are thinking of using some resin compound with entirely different properties than those we are used to seeing.

And they just released several new metal models (the Beats for DE, Draigo). Why would they release new models only to discontinue metal production a week later? It doesn't add up.

Kanluwen wrote:Fixed that for you. Quit hating on kids, grumpy!

Very cute Kan, but my concern remains legitimate - Timmy Twelve-Year-Old isn't going to know about FW's little Q&A on resin models. And when he finds out about it he's not going to be too happy that he has to wash his new toy soldiers.

This has to be first of april related.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And they just released several new metal models (the Beats for DE, Draigo). Why would they release new models only to discontinue metal production a week later? It doesn't add up.

Kanluwen wrote:Fixed that for you. Quit hating on kids, grumpy!

Very cute Kan, but my concern remains legitimate - Timmy Twelve-Year-Old isn't going to know about FW's little Q&A on resin models. And when he finds out about it he's not going to be too happy that he has to wash his new toy soldiers.

Then Timmy Twelve-Year-Old is going to have to put some effort into prepping and painting his models. I don't see that as an issue, I actually see it as a positive. Learns to respect the work people put into their models. But the example of "Timmy Twelve-Year-Old" is just as possible as "Timmy The-Thirty-Year-Old" who comes onto the Internet and cries that his model that he ordered from Forge World doesn't take paint well. Age doesn't really matter in this case, because there's--again--plenty of "veterans" who haven't the first bloody clue how to work with resin, even when they order it from the site themselves.

And let's face it, if GW moves to full production there will be a new edition of "How to Paint Citadel Miniatures" that will prominently feature the FW FAQ.

Kanluwen wrote:Then Timmy Twelve-Year-Old is going to have to put some effort into prepping and painting his models. I don't see that as an issue, I actually see it as a positive. Learns to respect the work people put into their models. But the example of "Timmy Twelve-Year-Old" is just as possible as "Timmy The-Thirty-Year-Old" who comes onto the Internet and cries that his model that he ordered from Forge World doesn't take paint well. Age doesn't really matter in this case, because there's--again--plenty of "veterans" who haven't the first bloody clue how to work with resin, even when they order it from the site themselves.

Well that's just it. A lot of people from what I can see are gamers not modellers. Resin is not for the casual hobbyist. GW market themselves at kids and their parents, I think it's better to see GW as just an expensive toyshop in this regard. Can you sell toxic materials and stuff that needs to be handled with significantly more care and respect? No because these toys will break too easily and upset/frustrate kids and their parents. You can't dismiss this with a demand that they put 'some effort' into prepping and painting models, a sizeable number of players proudly defend their minimal and mediocre efforts regarding painting. I'm fairly sure the reason they have produced more plastic is because it's more child and amateur friendly and a lot more forgiving on the casual modeller. Switching the metal over to plastic is almost a perversion of that approach.

Yeah, once you've made your mind up about something Kan there really is no point in talking to you... or at you, as the case always seems to be.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Then Timmy Twelve-Year-Old is going to have to put some effort into prepping and painting his models. I don't see that as an issue, I actually see it as a positive. Learns to respect the work people put into their models. But the example of "Timmy Twelve-Year-Old" is just as possible as "Timmy The-Thirty-Year-Old" who comes onto the Internet and cries that his model that he ordered from Forge World doesn't take paint well. Age doesn't really matter in this case, because there's--again--plenty of "veterans" who haven't the first bloody clue how to work with resin, even when they order it from the site themselves.

Well that's just it. A lot of people from what I can see are gamers not modellers. Resin is not for the casual hobbyist. GW market themselves at kids and their parents, I think it's better to see GW as just an expensive toyshop in this regard.

Fair point.

Can you sell toxic materials and stuff that needs to be handled with significantly more care and respect? No because these toys will break too easily and upset/frustrate kids and their parents.

Resin by itself isn't really "toxic". It's when you file it or do excessive sawing that you get the "toxic" factor.
On the breakability--have you seen some of the toys put out today?

You can't dismiss this with a demand that they put 'some effort' into prepping and painting models, a sizeable number of players proudly defend their minimal and mediocre efforts regarding painting.

Could this finally be the push towards "Hobby First, Game Second"? Nothing wrong with that in my mind. I'll never understand why some people put such little effort into their army.

I'm fairly sure the reason they have produced more plastic is because it's more child and amateur friendly and a lot more forgiving on the casual modeller.

The pro-modeler as well. Have you seen the stuff some people have done using plastics?

Switching the metal over to plastic is almost a perversion of that approach.

Metal over to resin?

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Then Timmy Twelve-Year-Old is going to have to put some effort into prepping and painting his models. I don't see that as an issue, I actually see it as a positive. Learns to respect the work people put into their models. But the example of "Timmy Twelve-Year-Old" is just as possible as "Timmy The-Thirty-Year-Old" who comes onto the Internet and cries that his model that he ordered from Forge World doesn't take paint well. Age doesn't really matter in this case, because there's--again--plenty of "veterans" who haven't the first bloody clue how to work with resin, even when they order it from the site themselves.

Well that's just it. A lot of people from what I can see are gamers not modellers. Resin is not for the casual hobbyist. GW market themselves at kids and their parents, I think it's better to see GW as just an expensive toyshop in this regard. Can you sell toxic materials and stuff that needs to be handled with significantly more care and respect? No because these toys will break too easily and upset/frustrate kids and their parents. You can't dismiss this with a demand that they put 'some effort' into prepping and painting models, a sizeable number of players proudly defend their minimal and mediocre efforts regarding painting. I'm fairly sure the reason they have produced more plastic is because it's more child and amateur friendly and a lot more forgiving on the casual modeller. Switching the metal over to plastic is almost a perversion of that approach.

Absolutely Howard A Treesong, it runs counter to the whole ethos that GW has been running towards for at least the last ten years of making GWs products suitable for children. Perhaps as far back as the movement towards white metal, which was done to make the product range available to a younger audience. Note that my comment is based on the assumption that there hasn't been some wonder new technology developed which bypasses all the hazards.

It comes down to this: If I had a 9 or 10 year old child (perhaps even older) who wanted to get into GW, I would not be happy with them handling resin models. The risks of slipping with a model knife or glueing your fingers together pale into insignificance when compared to the problems caused with the inhalation of resin dust, which is confirmed as being carcinogenic. Any parent on here will tell you, it doesn't matter if such a possibility is 0.001%, it's not something a parent would be comfortable letting a young child work with.
And many will go a step further - they will tell their child's friend's parents about it also, and may purposefully direct them towards a model range or game (and there are plenty more out there nowadays) that can not be potentially hazardous to my child's health.
And health warnings on the product will mean even parents who are completely unaware of this will type one search into google, read what it has to say, and then look elsewhere.

If this rumour is true, it is absolutely beyond my comprehension. For a company that has purposefully targeted an increasingly younger gamer, at the expense of it's veteran hobbyist, it reveals a startling lack of comprehension regarding parent psychology.

This, along with the one-man store could be potentially be the most disastrous business decision GW could make, and in my eyes is almost suicidal.

I hate resin with a passion. If GW really does this, that means no more blisters for me. So that means no more complete armies for me. So that means no GW games for me.

Well, GW has been moving towards having at least 1 character model for every army be in plastic.


Heck, you can have an entire Fantesy Empire army be plastic with not 1, but 2 character packs in plastic(as a bonus you actually get 2 models in both sets)



Hopefully, they at least move all generic characters into plastic. i do kinda like the wieight of a good o'l fashined metal HQ though.

shame GW hasn't got a lick of commong sense when it comes to picking wargear for metal models though

Grey Templar wrote:Well, GW has been moving towards having at least 1 character model for every army be in plastic.

That stopped a while ago.

There's no plastic Space Wolf, Blood Angel, Dark Eldar or Grey Knight character. There's no plastic Skaven leader (the one in the starter box one doesn't count). I don't recall Beastman getting a plastic character. Warriors of Chaos? Did they get one? Chaos Daemons? Orks (outside of Black Lagoon)? Tyranids?

In fact - when was the last plastic character? High Elves or Chaos Space Marines?

Pacific wrote:This, along with the one-man store could be potentially be the most disastrous business decision GW could make, and in my eyes is almost suicidal.

GW suiciding? Company under new management, prices go down, metals back, hopefully listen to gamers more.....

Or the company just goes out of business.

OT, I have no experience with resin. I don't really want to die from modelling but...

"Here lies Doop Dude, 1993-2011. A life not to model yours on."

Yes, lame. I'm tired.

The resin may be one of the newer plastic resins that have started appearing.
One of the manufacturers recently mentioned using some such resin, but I cannot recall who.

Also a recent video for the Raging Heroes Manticore demonstrated a resin that was palstic and bendy.
I assume this would be the type to be used.

As to resin dust, any is not going to be good. But I don't think that resin is going to be singled out without good cause, for reasons stated above.

Not taking precautions on the grounds that it is 'elf and safetee gorn mad is not recommended imho.