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So i have noticed not many people play drazhar in their army list, whys that? he is the only DE with Enternal warrior, he has some nice stat lines too. Is it just because hes overpriced?

DaKKaLAnce wrote:So i have noticed not many people play drazhar in their army list, whys that? he is the only DE with Enternal warrior, he has some nice stat lines too. Is it just because hes overpriced?

no invunerable save is the main reason and he costs in land raider range but i agree id love to see him played more i own him and would use him all the time for non competitive games

ive used him in a few games.... and unfortunitly his lack of an invun save makes him tough to justify. yea EW is nice, and he has a decent stat bar... but honestly, a round fighting TH/SS termies and he dies. and at 250+ points its a pretty big investment. the only time i really see him having use, is in a larger squad of incubi attached to something like an arcon or succubus. maybe even vect (i ran an apoc unit with vect, draz, malys, a haem ancient and a bunch of incubi - it kicked arse) but in normal games.... i think there are other more valable HQ units available - like the duke, baron, archons, succubus or haemeys.

The problem is not such much that he is expensive (admittedly it is a large part of it), its that for 10pts more you get Vect, who is superior in every way.

he is just like all the other phoniex lords, no invunverable save, not killy enough. Not being able to join squads other than incubi hurts too.

vect is probably better if you want uberkill

DarthSpader wrote:ive used him in a few games.... and unfortunitly his lack of an invun save makes him tough to justify. yea EW is nice, and he has a decent stat bar... but honestly, a round fighting TH/SS termies and he dies. and at 250+ points its a pretty big investment. the only time i really see him having use, is in a larger squad of incubi attached to something like an arcon or succubus. maybe even vect (i ran an apoc unit with vect, draz, malys, a haem ancient and a bunch of incubi - it kicked arse) but in normal games.... i think there are other more valable HQ units available - like the duke, baron, archons, succubus or haemeys.

Yeah i like that idea, sounds like that squad would control the battlefield. But the the no inv save is probably the thing thats just killing him.. then again if he were to have a shadowfield or some sort of inv save, he would be a little over powered IMO.

The local DE player runs him all the time as a character killer(along with a squad of Incubi and a Archon with shadow field)

Grey Templar wrote:The local DE player runs him all the time as a character killer(along with a squad of Incubi and a Archon with shadow field)

yes, 650+ points, 2HQs and 1 elite can kill most characters
still think vect in the same unit would be better.

Well im trying to fit drazhar in my arrmy list, played with him the other night, killed that avatar, dire avengers+farseer, and striking scorpions, then he was killed by rangers : /

The problem with Drazhar is that Vect is available for basically the same price.

Really, there isn't any more to it than that.

I was able to fit Drazhar into an Incubi list(3 sqauads!)in a 1500 point game with my local Marine player and sliced him to little chunks of Power armour and Gore,But the list falls short VS anything but SM because of horde, Variety,Armour, and as buffo said Vect is available for basically the same price.

TheWildHost wrote:I was able to fit Drazhar into an Incubi list(3 sqauads!)in a 1500 point game with my local Marine player and sliced him to little chunks of Power armour and Gore,But the list falls short VS anything but SM because of horde, Variety,Armour, and as buffo said Vect is available for basically the same price.

Incubi eat marines alive, Drazhar is just kind of gravy on top.

It is a fair point to say that Drazhar is fairly hard to justify.

I have fielded him a few times in non-competitive tournaments (which end up being competitive people playing only marginally soft lists, funny how that works ).

Drazhar can really frustrate your opponent, his hop move more then makes up for his lack of an invulnerable save, and he can modify his attacks to suit the situation.

He is the single greatest character at dictating combats. Being able to hop out of being plated with that Crazy IC that would kill him and let him mulch on the squad, and just playing keep away is pretty awesome. In fact, on the charge, you can totally deny an IC attacks. Charge in, plate the IC with Drazar, he makes pile in moves, Drazar hops away, you kill any unit foolish enough to accompany said IC.

I would take him with 6 Incubii, and an Archon with a PGL in a Raider. That is a pretty impressive combat unit. It's expensive though, so that is why you will rarely see it.

Agreed.

From a statistical point of view, for the same pts, you get an almost-assured "go first" move. Vect's ability to steal the initiative and give your entire army the initiatve alone outweighs what one individual can do. On top of that, Vect's abilities are sufficient to be comparable... Draz just isn't worth the points. Draz's wounds vs the Shadowfield... Say Draz survives being gunned down by lascannons, I'll put V's shadowfield against that. I figure I can pull of 3 or 4 saves before a 1 hits the table. And my army is likely STILL going first, which means all the offense that got shot down in my enemy's first turn got a chance to shoot.

I happen to be one that doesn't like a lot of points tied up into a single target. I don't care how good your save is or how many wounds you have, concentrated fire makes you roll save dice and you can't help but roll 1's if you have to throw enough. I'd rather have more targets out there and make my opponent spread his fire. Draz just doesn't bring value worth his points. (250pts = 2 ravagers.. or 2 trueborn squads w/ venoms... or the Baron and another trueborn squad.....etc.)

hearne wrote:Agreed.

From a statistical point of view, for the same pts, you get an almost-assured "go first" move. Vect's ability to steal the initiative and give your entire army the initiatve alone outweighs what one individual can do. On top of that, Vect's abilities are sufficient to be comparable... Draz just isn't worth the points. Draz's wounds vs the Shadowfield... Say Draz survives being gunned down by lascannons, I'll put V's shadowfield against that. I figure I can pull of 3 or 4 saves before a 1 hits the table. And my army is likely STILL going first, which means all the offense that got shot down in my enemy's first turn got a chance to shoot.

I happen to be one that doesn't like a lot of points tied up into a single target. I don't care how good your save is or how many wounds you have, concentrated fire makes you roll save dice and you can't help but roll 1's if you have to throw enough. I'd rather have more targets out there and make my opponent spread his fire. Draz just doesn't bring value worth his points. (250pts = 2 ravagers.. or 2 trueborn squads w/ venoms... or the Baron and another trueborn squad.....etc.)

i dont think putting a shadowfield against a lascannon is a smart idea. 18% chance of failure and loss of a 240 point model. Vect's problem is that rifleman dreads, IG powerfists, hammerhand+strenght, multilasers, avatars, UD daemonweapon DP, shurkien cannons, Mephisto can ID him. There are a lot of Str6 things out there. He needs to be in a squad and then kill just about anything he is placed next to in CC before it gets to strike.

going first when you are not expecting it is not all that great. I agree with dash, deploying to go first when you are counting on the initiative is suicidal.

Exergy wrote:

hearne wrote:Agreed.

From a statistical point of view, for the same pts, you get an almost-assured "go first" move. Vect's ability to steal the initiative and give your entire army the initiatve alone outweighs what one individual can do. On top of that, Vect's abilities are sufficient to be comparable... Draz just isn't worth the points. Draz's wounds vs the Shadowfield... Say Draz survives being gunned down by lascannons, I'll put V's shadowfield against that. I figure I can pull of 3 or 4 saves before a 1 hits the table. And my army is likely STILL going first, which means all the offense that got shot down in my enemy's first turn got a chance to shoot.

I happen to be one that doesn't like a lot of points tied up into a single target. I don't care how good your save is or how many wounds you have, concentrated fire makes you roll save dice and you can't help but roll 1's if you have to throw enough. I'd rather have more targets out there and make my opponent spread his fire. Draz just doesn't bring value worth his points. (250pts = 2 ravagers.. or 2 trueborn squads w/ venoms... or the Baron and another trueborn squad.....etc.)

i dont think putting a shadowfield against a lascannon is a smart idea. 18% chance of failure and loss of a 240 point model. Vect's problem is that rifleman dreads, IG powerfists, hammerhand+strenght, multilasers, avatars, UD daemonweapon DP, shurkien cannons, Mephisto can ID him. There are a lot of Str6 things out there. He needs to be in a squad and then kill just about anything he is placed next to in CC before it gets to strike.

going first when you are not expecting it is not all that great. I agree with dash, deploying to go first when you are counting on the initiative is suicidal.

I was actually speaking more in the general comparison Draz vs. Vect. Yes, those things can ID Vect, but then Draz can go down to volume from anything.. Either way, my personal choice would be to take what V brings to the army vs what D can. That is, *IF* I had to choose. The reality is that I never take either Draz "or" Vect. Too many points for too little return/flexibility. 250 + points wrapped up as a single target is too many. With *my* luck, they'll trip over a rock and explode. I'll spend those points on a couple of squads.