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mrondeau wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
I'm glad HS is getting a revision. I skipped the 2nd edition rule book so It's the oldest CB book I've got and it clearly could use a new translation.

Seriously folks give it a rest with the hate on CB. This is a nerd hobby. You end up collecting tons of books you will only use for a few years.
If you play D&D of any of its Pathfinder derivatives it's a fact of life. In fact any RPG game will leave your home filled with a thousand books from different editions weighing more than a thousand suns.
Every refugee from the GW universe could say the same for stacks and stacks of rules books, codices, campaign books, and army books.

The problem is not the new book.

The problem is that until now, CB was claiming that they decided to lower the N3 Rulebook's quality, by excluding the Human Sphere and Paradiso rules, specifically to avoid invalidating Human Sphere and Campaign Paradiso. They were telling us

We sold you a worst product so that you don't have to re-buy those two books!!

Now, it turns out to have been

We sold you a worst product because we want you to re-buy those two books. Also, we still have some in stock, so if you did not buy them already, do so. You won't have to re-buy them, that's why we did not include the rules in N3.

It's one thing to update a book, it's another to deny planning to do so to sell more of the old edition.

I can't say you're right either way. I don't recall either of those statements being said as you state. I remember hearing they want to keep HS and Paradiso as separate entities. That would seem to be confirmed by now reissuing an updated version.
From what we're hearing and experienced playing in N3 having AF come out this fall would result in a half baked book. I'm ok waiting for the previous books to get updates. I will wait because nobody wants a half baked addition to the game.

Noir wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
I'm glad HS is getting a revision. I skipped the 2nd edition rule book so It's the oldest CB book I've got and it clearly could use a new translation.

Seriously folks give it a rest with the hate on CB. This is a nerd hobby. You end up collecting tons of books you will only use for a few years.
If you play D&D of any of its Pathfinder derivatives it's a fact of life. In fact any RPG game will leave your home filled with a thousand books from different editions weighing more than a thousand suns.
Every refugee from the GW universe could say the same for stacks and stacks of rules books, codices, campaign books, and army books.

Also giving it a rest calling every complaint 'hate on CB' when often it's perfectly reasonable.

If it is about something CB did say sure. Not, when it about what poeple belived they heard and people have told them is not true over and over.

Just in general. It's a trend I've noticed.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

I can't say you're right either way. I don't recall either of those statements being said as you state. I remember hearing they want to keep HS and Paradiso as separate entities. That would seem to be confirmed by now reissuing an updated version.
From what we're hearing and experienced playing in N3 having AF come out this fall would result in a half baked book. I'm ok waiting for the previous books to get updates. I will wait because nobody wants a half baked addition to the game.

I'm right about what people are complaining about.

As for what CB said and did not said, well, that's kinda part of the problem. Their communication is based on word-of-mouth "W said that X said that Y said Z", so people have to form their idea of what's going on based on incomplete information, which mean that they reach different conclusions. I know what I heard, and I know the conclusion I reach from that.
If you want an example of how they consistently fail at communication, look at the pre-order bonuses. It's never clear what will and will not get you one.

Worst thing is that if they had said right away (as in, when people noticed the omissions from N3), that Human Sphere will be re-edited, I would have grumbled a little at that point (I still think that it would have been better to have a single rulebook), but I would be trying to budget money for the pre-order right now.
Instead, since I can't trust CB, I'm just going to wait for the PDF, and maybe buy the book in one year, for the fluff.

Noir wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
I'm glad HS is getting a revision. I skipped the 2nd edition rule book so It's the oldest CB book I've got and it clearly could use a new translation.

Seriously folks give it a rest with the hate on CB. This is a nerd hobby. You end up collecting tons of books you will only use for a few years.
If you play D&D of any of its Pathfinder derivatives it's a fact of life. In fact any RPG game will leave your home filled with a thousand books from different editions weighing more than a thousand suns.
Every refugee from the GW universe could say the same for stacks and stacks of rules books, codices, campaign books, and army books.

Also giving it a rest calling every complaint 'hate on CB' when often it's perfectly reasonable.

If it is about something CB did say sure. Not, when it about what poeple belived they heard and people have told them is not true over and over.

If my use of "hate" is too much for you, I suggest you chill. It's a commen internet usage.
CB will do what it wants regardless of our rage. Even if they said the opposite, which I don't recall hearing, they are allowed to admit mistakes and rectify them. It would seem nobody is happy with how N3 meshes with the previous expansions, perhaps they realized this and shelved AF until the older expansions could be brought into the fold.
Again, despite our misgivings in the moment the ultimate product will be prettier, have tighter rules, and be more fun to play. It will give CB a chance to continue updating the ancient miniatures of their range before dumping a universe of new AF profiles on us. I welcome a chance to apply some new polish to the more outdated material and models.
The game has encountered tremendous growth since Paradiso. It is smart to slow things down. Fix the foundation and the first 2 floors of the house before you put an expansion on the top floor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrondeau wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

I can't say you're right either way. I don't recall either of those statements being said as you state. I remember hearing they want to keep HS and Paradiso as separate entities. That would seem to be confirmed by now reissuing an updated version.
From what we're hearing and experienced playing in N3 having AF come out this fall would result in a half baked book. I'm ok waiting for the previous books to get updates. I will wait because nobody wants a half baked addition to the game.

I'm right about what people are complaining about.

As for what CB said and did not said, well, that's kinda part of the problem. Their communication is based on word-of-mouth "W said that X said that Y said Z", so people have to form their idea of what's going on based on incomplete information, which mean that they reach different conclusions. I know what I heard, and I know the conclusion I reach from that.
If you want an example of how they consistently fail at communication, look at the pre-order bonuses. It's never clear what will and will not get you one.

Worst thing is that if they had said right away (as in, when people noticed the omissions from N3), that Human Sphere will be re-edited, I would have grumbled a little at that point (I still think that it would have been better to have a single rulebook), but I would be trying to budget money for the pre-order right now.
Instead, since I can't trust CB, I'm just going to wait for the PDF, and maybe buy the book in one year, for the fluff.

And other companies never do the same. Like GW has never released a new codex for an old edition right on the cusp of the next big new edition drop? It's part of he product. We'll grumble and crank, then obediently buy it.

Those two book are valid (until CB decides to replace them). Marvellous.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

mrondeau wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

I can't say you're right either way. I don't recall either of those statements being said as you state. I remember hearing they want to keep HS and Paradiso as separate entities. That would seem to be confirmed by now reissuing an updated version.
From what we're hearing and experienced playing in N3 having AF come out this fall would result in a half baked book. I'm ok waiting for the previous books to get updates. I will wait because nobody wants a half baked addition to the game.

I'm right about what people are complaining about.

As for what CB said and did not said, well, that's kinda part of the problem. Their communication is based on word-of-mouth "W said that X said that Y said Z", so people have to form their idea of what's going on based on incomplete information, which mean that they reach different conclusions. I know what I heard, and I know the conclusion I reach from that.
If you want an example of how they consistently fail at communication, look at the pre-order bonuses. It's never clear what will and will not get you one.

Worst thing is that if they had said right away (as in, when people noticed the omissions from N3), that Human Sphere will be re-edited, I would have grumbled a little at that point (I still think that it would have been better to have a single rulebook), but I would be trying to budget money for the pre-order right now.
Instead, since I can't trust CB, I'm just going to wait for the PDF, and maybe buy the book in one year, for the fluff.

And other companies never do the same. Like GW has never released a new codex for an old edition right on the cusp of the next big new edition drop? It's part of he product. We'll grumble and crank, then obediently buy it.

And you know who gets lots of criticism for it? Also GW. Just because other people do it, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, or 'part of the product'. CBs communication is pretty poor. People who can afford to go to big events find out stuff, and then it just filters down in an unreliable manner.

 Knight wrote:



Those two book are valid (until CB decides to replace them). Marvellous.

He says they're modular units. Yes he says this sets them up for AF "at some point in the future".
I would like that next as well, but at no point does he specifically say what they will do after N3.
What he says and what people wanted to hear are not the same thing.

It would be awesome if they released another box like Operation: Icestorm for an N3 version of Human Sphere. Given how well it sold, that is a no-brainier. It would help people to focus on rules and units they added with that edition to learn them better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

mrondeau wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

I can't say you're right either way. I don't recall either of those statements being said as you state. I remember hearing they want to keep HS and Paradiso as separate entities. That would seem to be confirmed by now reissuing an updated version.
From what we're hearing and experienced playing in N3 having AF come out this fall would result in a half baked book. I'm ok waiting for the previous books to get updates. I will wait because nobody wants a half baked addition to the game.

I'm right about what people are complaining about.

As for what CB said and did not said, well, that's kinda part of the problem. Their communication is based on word-of-mouth "W said that X said that Y said Z", so people have to form their idea of what's going on based on incomplete information, which mean that they reach different conclusions. I know what I heard, and I know the conclusion I reach from that.
If you want an example of how they consistently fail at communication, look at the pre-order bonuses. It's never clear what will and will not get you one.

Worst thing is that if they had said right away (as in, when people noticed the omissions from N3), that Human Sphere will be re-edited, I would have grumbled a little at that point (I still think that it would have been better to have a single rulebook), but I would be trying to budget money for the pre-order right now.
Instead, since I can't trust CB, I'm just going to wait for the PDF, and maybe buy the book in one year, for the fluff.

And other companies never do the same. Like GW has never released a new codex for an old edition right on the cusp of the next big new edition drop? It's part of he product. We'll grumble and crank, then obediently buy it.

And you know who gets lots of criticism for it? Also GW. Just because other people do it, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, or 'part of the product'. CBs communication is pretty poor. People who can afford to go to big events find out stuff, and then it just filters down in an unreliable manner.

But the crucial difference is that GW doesn't give away the core of the material for free. You need to buy their books in order to play.
It is nicer to have things in dead tree format. However CB has everything you need in PDFs and hopefully soon the wiki. You're buying fluff and art in any CB book. The rules are free to all.
As for communication, it's not our fault people going to CB's events are misinterpreting what they're told. We might have been teased that AF was next, but there has been no press pertaining to its actual release. It has been inflated hope on our part to assume it was officially green lit to go.

Infinity's Designer, Gutier Lusquinos, said ( so I heard) that he believes he has improved as a writer since he wrote the first books, so I suspect that this is a result of his desire to produce a new and improved background as much as anything else, and HS is pretty much just background ( or *fluff* as some have been trained to call it .)

Still, word was that they wanted to keep HS and CP in place, and 'eventually' update. So call it somewhat deceptive, but I think Hanlon's Law, or Hanlon's Razor, applies here.

We buy books periodically from minis companies as a way to support rules development. For CB, it's like 1.5 books a year average, even with the new editions. $100 a year isn't bad for a nerd-hobby. That's a HELL of a lot better than GW prices.

They also give the rules away free in a PDF, so you have absolutely zero reason to get your panties in a knot if you just want the rules. This is again far, far better than GW practices. It's actually really surprising and refreshing, and helps one forgive any slowness or mistakes CB may make. Pretty good sign of corporate benevolence that. If you brush that detail aside to go on a nerdrage rant, you're pretty much blind.

I'm stoked about this. Haters gonna hate, CB gonna keep pumping out better and better rulesets.

Now getting down to specifics: They said there would be -new- hacking devices in here. That's intriguing... what is there room for still? The current set is pretty comprehensive for attacks on the various troops types. I don't see what there's space for still. Maybe new types of Supportware programs?

EVO repeaters could maybe use a re-work... I use them a lot under the FAQ, mainly for jump support when all I have is Assault hacking devices, but also for re-rolls. They could still use a bit more utility, but for 13 points the current rules aren't that bad really.

The Holo 2 works beautifully under the FAQ now, I hope they don't mess that up. The ZoC range instead of just being under a tempalte is a good expansions, makes the device a lot more useful for things that are on 55mm bases now.

Fireteams are also pretty good under the FAQ, although allowing long-skills that don't eject you from the team would be nice/realistic (like hackers using Supportware programs). Of course Suppressive Fire should be excluded and Spec Fire shouldn't get the link bonuses, but other than that the ban on long skills is pretty silly/clunky.

Those Pokemon things that Tohaa just got might be in there, and more widespread too. The one that prevents them dying to fire is pretty annoying actually, as it mitigates the one downside of their unlimited-fireteams existence. Hope there's a way to peel those off.

Also, I wonder what new profiles we'll get.

 Savnock wrote:


Now getting down to specifics: They said there would be -new- hacking devices in here. That's intriguing... what is there room for still? The current set is pretty comprehensive for attacks on the various troops types. I don't see what there's space for still. Maybe new types of Supportware programs?

At first I was wondering what else they could add, too. Then after think what they could do, it dawned on me they could just mean the new Tohaa Hacking rules.



And with Angel's painting demos we may get the USA sectional in the new HS.

Noir wrote:

 Savnock wrote:


Now getting down to specifics: They said there would be -new- hacking devices in here. That's intriguing... what is there room for still? The current set is pretty comprehensive for attacks on the various troops types. I don't see what there's space for still. Maybe new types of Supportware programs?

At first I was wondering what else they could add, too. Then after think what they could do, it dawned on me they could just mean the new Tohaa Hacking rules.



And with Angel's painting demos we may get the USA sectional in the new HS.

It's possible that we'll get new profiles for the upcoming sectorials. There's no reason they can't put out some new profiles to use in Vanilla armies while we wait for the final sectorials to be hashed out.

I'm really glad they're just slowing things down and addressing existing rules and models. The existing sectorials could use a new coat of paint, especially the Shas. There are so many miniatures in their catalogue that need an update. This will allow for everything to be brought up to date with 3D rendered models across the board before they move forward into AF.
I love my JSA guys, but some of those models are woefully underwhelming now. Ninjas could use some love. Especially the oldest one, the basic male ninja with sword. Their line trooper keisotsu butai are great, but tiny by the new standards. Seeing how amazing the resculpted Galwegians were, I am pumped for all the reworked line troopers we haven't seen yet like Zanshi, Kazaks & maybe even Seed Soldiers.

With the success of Operation: Icestorm I hope CB makes the smart move and releases another boxed set like that to go with a reissue of HS. It could be the starting set for a campaign or something. I don't care what it specifically is, it will be a damned good product. Icestorm generated a ton of interest for Infinity and the hobby. It would be nice for some other factions to get the same kind of loving the Nomads and PanO got from that.

I like the idea of a HS/P N3 starter. They could use that opportunity to launch two sectorial starters rather than generic starters.

 Savnock wrote:


If you brush that detail aside to go on a nerdrage rant, you're pretty much blind.

I'm stoked about this. Haters gonna hate, CB gonna keep pumping out better and better rulesets.

You may be surprised to know that throwing around insults like haters and nerdrage is about as helpful as others labelling you a suck up fanboi. Neither helps move the discussion along in a good way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:
I like the idea of a HS/P N3 starter. They could use that opportunity to launch two sectorial starters rather than generic starters.

That would be nice but unlikely. They've been pretty adamant about the starter NOT having the full n3 rules let alone ones from another book... that's two additional product sales potentially lost for those who want dead tree versions.

 warboss wrote:

 Savnock wrote:


If you brush that detail aside to go on a nerdrage rant, you're pretty much blind.

I'm stoked about this. Haters gonna hate, CB gonna keep pumping out better and better rulesets.

You may be surprised to know that throwing around insults like haters and nerdrage is about as helpful as others labelling you a suck up fanboi. Neither helps move the discussion along in a good way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:
I like the idea of a HS/P N3 starter. They could use that opportunity to launch two sectorial starters rather than generic starters.

That would be nice but unlikely. They've been pretty adamant about the starter NOT having the full n3 rules let alone ones from another book... that's two additional product sales potentially lost for those who want dead tree versions.

It could include as much of the expansion rules as Icestorm contained very little of full the N3 rules. It's a great opportunity to showcase some the unique aspects of HS that set it apart from the basics of N3. Combined Army and Aleph would be a sensible choice given the content of the HS and C: P expansions.

Pragmatic pessimist version: We've got to redo and reformat the Human Sphere rules to get them up to N3 standards. Because they really do look like crap on that blue background with skills not marked or tagged and no breakdown of status conditions, if you compare them to the main rulebook now. That probably became really evident during the preparation of the wiki, stuff like ending up with one template for N3 skills and another for the existing N2 skills. Or gods forbid they tried to do a combined N2/N3 skill chart and noticed the amount of asterisks required by the N2 skills.

AI Beacon, seed pods, "Why the hell can't link teams throw smoke indirectly?", which of these skills are automatic, which are obligatory, etc., At a certain point, that HS+CP FAQ plus the reformatted HS rules plus whatever is left over in CP becomes something that needs publication.

Morat Optimism version: Morat Optimism: "We finally admit that we absolutely have to reformat/update the Human Sphere rules for N3, so here's some extra rules and the new profiles that are ready, so that you still get some new stuff if you ended up paying for the book a second time."

Serious speculation time: Last year, CB was probably looking at the amount of work that it would take to rewrite all of the 2nd edition rules all at once, how much of that work they could get done, and trying to guess when or if their popularity bubble was going to last. And the "Rewrite one book, while keeping the other two books in print" plan probably sounded like a good idea at the time because it minimized CB's risk and our (players' and stores') risk. Because six months later the link team rules and rest of the Human Sphere rules still mostly work okay. But they look terrible, they're below the new standard, and you could write plenty of angry blog posts about the various unfortunate accidents like "How does a netrod use its Shock Pulse now?"

But if they had said, "We're releasing a new edition. All of the current books are going to be invalidated, but it's going to be at least six months to a year after the main rulebook until we'll have the other half of the rules redone" that wouldn't have worked either. "All you sectorial players, you don't get any link team rules for a year. Same goes for anyone else with Human Sphere rules" couldn't have been an option. But, all the same "Operation: Icestorm was a huge success. Let's capitalize on it by not releasing a new edition for the two years it'll take us to produce one" couldn't have been, either.

So you end up with the rolling new edition release, as bumpy as it is, being the compromise the company can afford. The big surprise, in my mind, is what shape the Human Sphere rules are going to be when the 3rd edition wiki escapes to the public. Are we going to get the current FAQ'd 2nd edition rules, or something else?

 warboss wrote:

 Savnock wrote:


If you brush that detail aside to go on a nerdrage rant, you're pretty much blind.

I'm stoked about this. Haters gonna hate, CB gonna keep pumping out better and better rulesets.

You may be surprised to know that throwing around insults like haters and nerdrage is about as helpful as others labelling you a suck up fanboi. Neither helps move the discussion along in a good way.

Good point- I actually do feel that way (being a frequent nerdrager I don't actually see it as a horrible vice, just a way we geeks express ourselves), but I see how it doesn't help. Will restrain myself in future.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:
I like the idea of a HS/P N3 starter. They could use that opportunity to launch two sectorial starters rather than generic starters.

That would be nice but unlikely. They've been pretty adamant about the starter NOT having the full n3 rules let alone ones from another book... that's two additional product sales potentially lost for those who want dead tree versions.

Well, the rules don't need sectorial support, we just need figs mainly from a single sectorial, with maybe a couple oddballs thrown in to round it out. I bought O:I mainly for Corregidor support. Others would do the same for USAradna, especially if an actual starter was a ways out.

@solkan, great points. I too wonder how the translation will work. The community feedback on things like grenades not being doable in links might actually help shape the rules.

 GiraffeX wrote:

Looks like I could be adding HS to my pile of invalidated codexs I've not used yet

I'm assuming that this will be a rule update (to bring in line with N3) rather than complete re-write.

If that's the case, I would probably just print off the updated rules (or even edit the stat lines in your current book).

This is basically what everyone did when the new (new edition updated) Red Bear/Grey Wolf books came along for FoW, easy enough to do when the rules are downloadable.

 solkan wrote:
Pragmatic pessimist version: We've got to redo and reformat the Human Sphere rules to get them up to N3 standards. Because they really do look like crap on that blue background with skills not marked or tagged and no breakdown of status conditions, if you compare them to the main rulebook now. That probably became really evident during the preparation of the wiki, stuff like ending up with one template for N3 skills and another for the existing N2 skills. Or gods forbid they tried to do a combined N2/N3 skill chart and noticed the amount of asterisks required by the N2 skills.

AI Beacon, seed pods, "Why the hell can't link teams throw smoke indirectly?", which of these skills are automatic, which are obligatory, etc., At a certain point, that HS+CP FAQ plus the reformatted HS rules plus whatever is left over in CP becomes something that needs publication.

Morat Optimism version: Morat Optimism: "We finally admit that we absolutely have to reformat/update the Human Sphere rules for N3, so here's some extra rules and the new profiles that are ready, so that you still get some new stuff if you ended up paying for the book a second time."

Serious speculation time: Last year, CB was probably looking at the amount of work that it would take to rewrite all of the 2nd edition rules all at once, how much of that work they could get done, and trying to guess when or if their popularity bubble was going to last. And the "Rewrite one book, while keeping the other two books in print" plan probably sounded like a good idea at the time because it minimized CB's risk and our (players' and stores') risk. Because six months later the link team rules and rest of the Human Sphere rules still mostly work okay. But they look terrible, they're below the new standard, and you could write plenty of angry blog posts about the various unfortunate accidents like "How does a netrod use its Shock Pulse now?"

But if they had said, "We're releasing a new edition. All of the current books are going to be invalidated, but it's going to be at least six months to a year after the main rulebook until we'll have the other half of the rules redone" that wouldn't have worked either. "All you sectorial players, you don't get any link team rules for a year. Same goes for anyone else with Human Sphere rules" couldn't have been an option. But, all the same "Operation: Icestorm was a huge success. Let's capitalize on it by not releasing a new edition for the two years it'll take us to produce one" couldn't have been, either.

So you end up with the rolling new edition release, as bumpy as it is, being the compromise the company can afford. The big surprise, in my mind, is what shape the Human Sphere rules are going to be when the 3rd edition wiki escapes to the public. Are we going to get the current FAQ'd 2nd edition rules, or something else?

I got HS and Paradiso around the same time. I started collecting about a year after Paradiso came out. The translation in Human Sphere, the text blocking, the background, even the typeface all make it a chore to read. My friend who knows a hell of a lot more about these things explained it all to me and it makes perfect sense.

Paradiso is a more aesthetically refined product. Heck that's why the game really took off after the latter of the two.

I'm glad they're slowing down. We've all seen the huge growth CB has undergone with infinity. Don't want to grow too big for your britches.


I'm hoping the wiki is up to speed ASAP. I may have got the fundamentals down reading the books, but understanding the interaction of all the minutiae came from plumbing the depths of the wiki for answers.

I'm somewhat surprisingly not upset about this news.

But I can certainly understand why anyone would be.

However, please keep in mind RULE #1 when expressing or reacting to opinions here.

Thanks!

In background and profiles I expect more boons to Nomads, naturally more cuts for PanO. With new Greek specialists and Tohaa critters thrown in.

What he says and what people wanted to hear are not the same thing.

Completely agree, simply because he says the products are not going to be killed and that he expects an errata to bring them up to date is not to be taken as an indication that they may not decide to replace them in the near or far future.

I have to wonder if this was the plan from the start as so many seem to think, or if it was actually just done as a response to the (very deservedly) negative community reaction to N3 not including the HS/C: P rules and having to deal with 5 PDFs to actually play. Myself, I've been very pleased yet annoyed with N3 as a whole, and while I understand the reasoning for not including it in the base N3, I feel that the rules and abilities and weapons absolutely should have been there from the start. It's been frustrating and annoying trying to get my friends to start playing now that I have a few interested for the first time since N1, and that frustration and annoyance never needed to be there.

That said, I'm pleased they're revamping HS with partial paradiso this quickly. I don't feel like this is the best option they could have gone with (that would have been HS & C: P included with N3), but at least it's the best solution to a problem CB created when they left HS/C: P out. Also, having lost interest in reading the poorly translated fluff in HS halfway through, I'm relieved to get an update so I may actually be able to stomach finish it

All in all, I have a VERY hard time hating a company for releasing another version of book that they're going to give us all for free anyways, whether that was their original intention or if they're just making the best of the mess they made.

I'm thrilled.

HS and Paradiso have a staggering amount of rules. By making N3 Human Sphere, we won't just get a reworded version: We're going to get them brought up to the same standard as N3, which was already by itself a very fufilling and deep game.

Honestly, I just feel a sense of 'it's about time to get salty' from a lot of vets for some reason about this. Yes, I'd have preferred HS and Paradiso to be part of N3's initial release. But by all likelihood, N3 will be with us for a LONG time, just like how N2/N1 were effectively the same ruleset with the most minor of adjustments.

I'm so looking forward to revised fluff and a much, much nicer localization, even better art, more profiles (Panzer Aquila and Bolt engineer or else!), and way better editing/templating.

Im looking forward to revised HS + CP rules.

I have enough trouble learning 1 book of rules, let alone a 3 + FAQs and errata. (Yes Im in the wrong hobby, I know )
And before anyone brings up them being "optional" no theyre not, almost everyone plays with some rules from them.

I dont get many games of infinity due to the closest place being far out of my way and on a thursday which is latenight shopping here, making getting there even worse. Im stuck playing the odd mock game at home while trying to learn the rules which isnt going well.
I may just stick to O:I at this rate.

As a curiosity, what confirmation do we have that this book will be a combination of HS and CP? The teaser only mentions HS.

 Absolutionis wrote:
As a curiosity, what confirmation do we have that this book will be a combination of HS and CP? The teaser only mentions HS.

It mentions Tohaa and Steel Phalanx which were in CP. so if you take them out and their rules and weapons and stuff, all you're left with is the campaign. So the rules will probably be in this but not the campaign.

The teaser mentions the tohaa and symbiont armor, among other things, all of which are in Paradiso.

I'm glad the HS will include Paradiso stuff too. I suspect that as they were play testing new stuff for Acheron Falls, they realized that they needed to tidy up HS and CP rules too before Acheron Falls released, and that it would be silly to update both books separately.

In time for Christmas? That would be nice.

Ninjas this early in the AM ?

 Kalamadea wrote:
I have to wonder if this was the plan from the start as so many seem to think, or if it was actually just done as a response to the (very deservedly) negative community reaction to N3 not including the HS/C: P rules and having to deal with 5 PDFs to actually play.

Two thoughts.

First, possibly, because I recall someone mentioning at gencon when they were releasing Icestorm, they were asked by a CB staff if they'd prefer HS redone for N3 before Acheron Falls.

Second, probably not. If they're teasing it now, they're aiming for a release this year, probably 1 year after N3. If the amount of work that went into N3 is being given to this, it would have taken longer than a year to put it all together.

Guaranteed they were already into it when they were finishing up N3. They might have been unsure of when the community wanted it, however.

 Savnock wrote:
...so you have absolutely zero reason to get your panties in a knot if you just want the rules.

Some people's panties come pre-knotted disregardless of the actual scope of the admittedly existing problems in communication.

I'm really glad about it, since I don't have the N2 books (was actually thinking of buying them, whew!) and the PDF they put up recently is complete garbage.

Totally stoked for a new HS PDF.

The old one seriously makes my computer chug, so it'll be nice to be able to spend more time reading than waiting for pages to load.