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Because my last thread was regarding Space Marines, I don't believe I ended up getting the feedback I was hoping for with my revised list.

I am essentially looking at expanding my Marines to Blood Angels. I can do so on the fly with the purchase of a Baal Predator and a Baal Predator Turret (for an already existing Predator).

My regular Marine list is as follows:

Space Marines - 2000
Librarian - Null Zone, Avenger
5 Terminators - 5 Thunder Hammer & Storm Shields, Land Raider with Multi-Melta & Extra Armor
Dreadnought - 2 Twin-linked Autocannons
Dreadnought - 2 Twin-linked Autocannons
5 Tactical Marines - Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun
5 Tactical Marines - Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun
5 Tactical Marines - Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon
5 Tactical Marines - Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon
Attack Bike - Multi-Melta
Attack Bike - Multi-Melta
Attack Bike - Multi-Melta
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Total - 1995

I am going to try out this:

Blood Angels - 2000
Librarian - Fear of the Darkness, Shield of Sanguinius
Sanguinary Priest - Combi-Melta
5 Terminators - Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields, Land Raider with Multi-Melta & Extra Armor
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Dreadnought - 2 Twin-linked Autocannons
Total - 2000

Thoughts?

Looks good to me. Lots of fast, armored targets and a tough melee unit. Strong ranged firepower and a lot of durability across the board. Normally I would say ditch the single Dreadnought but in this case you have enough target saturation that a single shouldn't matter that much. Still, if you could find another 5 points somewhere you could upgrade him to a 3rd AC/LC Predator. Either way, I think that adjustment is a minor detail and overall the list should be pretty damn competitive as-is.

Your list is pretty good.

I second the suggestion to fit in a third Auto/Las Predator: For the extra points, you trade 2 TL-AC shots for 2 Lascannon shots, and get Front AV13.

I recommend you take the same loadout on all the Razorbacks. I like Las/Plas but TL-AC seems good too, especially if you see a lot of AV14 in your area.

I personally would not take the Terminators & Land Raider, but they are one way to take a counter-assault element. Wouldn't a LRC be better, though, so you could stick the Priest and Librarian in with the Termies? If you gave the Priest Unleash Rage instead of FotD, you'd make the Termies hit harder, plus Shield would cover a larger area since it's measured from the vehicle's hull.

Been considering running this instead:

Blood Angels - 2000
Mephiston
Furioso Dreadnought - 2 Bloodfists
Furioso Dreadnought - 2 Bloodfists
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Total - 2000

The two Dreadnoughts could be dropped for 250 points to spare. However, I think they'd add a great counter assault / distraction element. Against Drop Podding / Deep Striking, they'd be a great deterrent.

Thoughts?

My issue with the second list is: how are you going to get the dreadnoughts to where they need to be? They have no mid or long range firepower, and they are slow.

I like the first list better, personally

Those 250 points can easily be spent elsewhere. I will point out their use and placing depends entirely on the opponent and mission being played.

The second list is better but the Furiosos should have blood talons as they wreck infantry. Make sure you have a Priest in the list and I'd make all the Razorbacks the same for target priority reasons.

I really like the second list. The dreads are great counter assault units for those pesky DE, Orkz or 'Nids.

Though I wouldn't take the Blood Talons. They are effective versus infantry of low/medium toughness, but as a counter assault unit I like my dreads to be able to deal with even high toughness units - even if means only tieing them up instead of killing them.

I think I would drop Mephiston as he is the only real CC unit to be used offensively - hence easy to single out. Defensively you don't need him as you have the dreads.

Dreadnought is S6 so will need 4+ to wound against T6 with re-rolls as the talons are lightning claws so I cannot see what the problem is. Add a Priest and the Dreadnought is S7 so 3+ to wound. A Furioso will kill a high toughness unit typicall a T6 monstrous creature as that's the most common in a single assault phase more than likely providing it strikes first, if not it will seriously wound it.

I like the second list as well a little more. I agree with the other posters though about the Furioso Dreads. Find a way to squeeze in a few drop pods if your going to have slow, lumbering CC choices like them. Plus a Drop Pod with a storm-bolter will annoy anyone!

Blood talons are beastly there is no question mine have killed everything from small little ripper swarms to a orc war boss's and big nids havent had him punch a hive tyrant yet but I assume that wouldnt go all too bad.

As mercer said make the razors all the same.

When I run mephiston I run a lib too to give him a 5 up cover you know and a fnp (priest and lib go in a asm squad near mephi)

I would also switch out the preds for vindis they look cooler and do more damage crowd control and just over all squishing things.

After much consideration, how about this:

Blood Angels - 2000
Mephiston
Furioso Dreadnought - Blood Talons, Drop Pod
Furioso Dreadnought - Blood Talons, Drop Pod
Sanguinary Priest - Combi-Melta
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Sergeant with Power Weapon, Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Total - 2000

The revision of your list is excellent! Now you have no targets an opponent can focus on. Mephiston is a beast and much better than a regular lib, just wish that he was also indenpendent. You are going to love the reaction of your opponent when you are dropping Furioso Dreads on them! Nice list!

I don't think I like the revision, primarily because of the Drop Pods. Even numbers aren't ideal, and there isn't anything else you can put an extra pod on to get both Dreads on turn 1. I think you would be better off finding a way to upgrade to Furioso Librarians with Wings of Sanguinius and Shield of Sanguinius. They start on the board, they can fly along with Meph, and everything else can keep up with them. They also carry their own cover save with them, and pass it along to anything nearby.

Meph - 250
Furioso Librarian (Wings, Shield) - 175
Furioso Librarian (Wings, Shield) - 175
5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Lascannon) - 165
5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Lascannon) - 165
5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) - 165
5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) - 165
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Sponsion Heavy Bolters) - 145
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Sponsion Heavy Bolters) - 145
Predator (Autocannon, Sponsion Lascannons) - 135
Predator (Autocannon, Sponsion Lascannons) - 135
Predator (Autocannon, Sponsion Lascannons) - 135
Total 1,955

45 points left to spend. If you drop 5 points somewhere you can get a Sanguinary Priest but I don't think that's necessary. Probably better to just get Inferno Pistols or Power Weapons on a few of the Assault Marine sergeants. You could also get Dozer Blades on every one of your vehicles, which might be worth it if your group uses a lot of terrain.

Why not one Furioso in a Drop Pod and one Furioso Libby? Double shield is probably a bit overkill anyway.

Shield only has a 6" range so having two casts of it is nice to ensure coverage. I suppose you could do one Librarian and one in a Pod, but I'm not sure why you would. The Pod is an extra Kill Point, and the Librarian is more mobile after turn 1. Then again, the list already has 16 KP's, so what's 1 more? Up to you I guess.

This is what I'm currently leaning towards:

Blood Angels - 2000
Mephiston
Furioso Librarian - Wings, Shield
Furioso Dreadnought - Blood Talons, Drop Pod
Sanguinary Priest - Combi-Melta
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Total - 2000

Why put assault squads in razorbacks when they come standard with jumpacks. It seems like your taking a bus to a gun fight when you can fly.

baron deathnyx wrote:Why put assault squads in razorbacks when they come standard with jumpacks. It seems like your taking a bus to a gun fight when you can fly.

Because inside the Razorbacks they are a lot more durable than outside as 5 man units, and the Razorbacks are fast with a decent amount of firepower for the cost. Razorspam/Predator Spam is a common and highly competitive build for Blood Angels because Assault Marines reduce the cost of any Dedicated Transport by 35 points to make up for the loss of their Jump Packs.

What you are suggesting is an alltogether different build, though not uncompetitive. DoA Builds use a bunch of full sized Assault Squads, Librarians, Sanguinary Priests and Honor Guard all with Jump Packs to Deep Strike and pop vehicles before assaulting whatever comes out. Those lists usually involve no vehicles whatsoever, and can also be highly competitive, but that's not what the OP is going for with this particular list.

Back again! Finally settled on dual Librarians with Dozer Blades (as Aldarionn suggested earlier).

Blood Angels - 2000
Mephiston
Furioso Librarian - Wings, Shield
Furioso Librarian - Wings, Shield
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Dozer Blades
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Dozer Blades
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun, Dozer Blades
5 Assault Marines - Meltagun, Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked Plasmagun, Dozer Blades
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Dozer Blades
Baal Predator - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Dozer Blades
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blades
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blades
Predator - Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blades
Total - 2000

I would suggest dropping dozer blades for the Heavy Predators and the Las/Plas RBs. They will be moving 6" normally and be fielded in the back meaning they won't be running through terrain very often like the rest of the list which is more forward pushing and shorter range fire.

You get 25 points from that. You can give the 2x Baals HK Missiles so you can scout side armor and give you more anti-av firepower alphastriking fire power. I like putting HK missiles on Baals and Heavy Preds since they normally move 6" to fire everything.

syypher wrote:I would suggest dropping dozer blades for the Heavy Predators and the Las/Plas RBs. They will be moving 6" normally and be fielded in the back meaning they won't be running through terrain very often like the rest of the list which is more forward pushing and shorter range fire.

You get 25 points from that. You can give the 2x Baals HK Missiles so you can scout side armor and give you more anti-av firepower alphastriking fire power. I like putting HK missiles on Baals and Heavy Preds since they normally move 6" to fire everything.

One possibility would be dropping all the Dozer Blades and Baal sponsons, plus trading 2 Meltaguns for a third sponsonless Baal. A bit tough to do, but something to consider.

Land speeders ftw, I love them in my army. They soak up a lot of firepower and deal out a lot as well. And its a good distraction from your razorbacks, among other things.