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Hey painters

I just started Warhammer a couple weeks ago now (thanks to my boyfriend Cell) and I've noticed that not a lot of people have an overall gloss finish. Everything's matte or 'eavy metal.
I want to know what the pros and cons are (opinion-wize). Is there a good reason why there aren't shiny armies? Is it against tradition?

Personally, I think it'd be sexy to have an entire Dark Eldar army with a super-high-gloss finish.

Its interesting you say that my army i am painting right now is Dark eldar and i honestly hated the paint and black and insert a highlight color of your choosing that GW decided on so i decided on metallic purple i makes them look wicked.

The model is not done but at least this will let you see what a high gloss will look like.
Most army look better flat it give them the we been fighting in a war grim weathering feel but building a kabal warrior list of high there! me and my buddys just came fresh from Commorragh and we will be taking all your women now seems to fit

Depends on your tastes I would say. For me personally, an army needs to be matte, or maybe even a satin finish, so I can have a good look at the paintjob.

A glossy finish is very distracting and can obscure some of the details on your minis because of the shine.

Cheers,


IK-Painter

gloss = evil

It's not for me, though it provides a tough protective coat for gaming. You could coat in gloss, and then again in matt to get the combined flat finish with the protection.

Yeah to elaborate more on what Howard said, gloss varnish tends to be a lot tougher and harder wearing than matte, so no matter what end finish you desire, it is never a bad idea to varnish in gloss first.

With regards to final finish, it is only the last coat that you put on that really matters, and that does not even have to be varnish. For myself I have a bunch of pots of varnish with different ratios of matte:gloss medium mixed in. I use different mixtures for different finishes and effects (often on the same miniature). I have one which is a kind of gloss/satin that I especially like. I also use clear nail varnish sometimes for gems and stones because that's super smooth and glossy.

I actually tend to prefer slightly glossy finishes. It gives paint jobs a much smoother and more 'finished' look, and can help to cover any rough textures from brush strokes, dust or heavy pigment. I also think it adds a bit of weight to the way models look. I've had people pick up my miniatures and been shocked by how light they were, thinking they must be metal or ceramic.

Matte has certain advantages though, for more complicated lighting effects like NMM and OSL it is kind of necessary to preserve the effect. But that does not mean you can't use gloss for other parts. I would suggest mixing and matching for different effects. The nice thing about varnish is because it is clear you can put on lots of coats without loosing any detail, so don't be afraid to experiment.

IK-Painter wrote:Depends on your tastes I would say. For me personally, an army needs to be matte, or maybe even a satin finish, so I can have a good look at the paintjob.

A glossy finish is very distracting and can obscure some of the details on your minis because of the shine.

Yeah I can see how it might be distracting! Satin finish, me gusta.

Smacks wrote:Yeah to elaborate more on what Howard said, gloss varnish tends to be a lot tougher and harder wearing than matte, so no matter what end finish you desire, it is never a bad idea to varnish in gloss first.

With regards to final finish, it is only the last coat that you put on that really matters, and that does not even have to be varnish. For myself I have a bunch of pots of varnish with different ratios of matte:gloss medium mixed in. I use different mixtures for different finishes and effects (often on the same miniature). I have one which is a kind of gloss/satin that I especially like. I also use clear nail varnish sometimes for gems and stones because that's super smooth and glossy.

I actually tend to prefer slightly glossy finishes. It gives paint jobs a much smoother and more 'finished' look, and can help to cover any rough textures from brush strokes, dust or heavy pigment. I also think it adds a bit of weight to the way models look. I've had people pick up my miniatures and been shocked by how light they were, thinking they must be metal or ceramic.

Matte has certain advantages though, for more complicated lighting effects like NMM and OSL it is kind of necessary to preserve the effect. But that does not mean you can't use gloss for other parts. I would suggest mixing and matching for different effects. The nice thing about varnish is because it is clear you can put on lots of coats without loosing any detail, so don't be afraid to experiment.

SO many different possiblities . I have noticed that a lot of people have a really rough finish and it sort of bothers me, so that's why I wondered. Thanks for your input! That's helpful.

I usually don't use a gloss primer. If you want to change something on your model, it looks stupid.

I quite like using gloss varnish for my rank and file troopers... makes em look like they have polished armor

I use the GW brush on 'ardcoat for my units, and I think it looks spiffy.

If you brush Gloss on, you can make armour pieces look shiny whilst the rest of the model is matt, a very useful technique.

The problem I have with using Gloss all over, is that light reflects at awkward and unrealistic angles. This makes the whole point of highlighting pointless. e.g if you are going to gloss your models don't bother highlighting them.

I use thinned varnishes for my sealing of miniatures (e.g 10ml varnish with 5ml White spirit), and then Dullcote them. All the advantages of a gloss with out the annoying shininess.

with Gloss Varnish



Single gloss coat



With Dullcote



Final result nice, matt finish with all the protection of thick gloss varnish



I do use Gloss, on Glass effects so lenses or vehicle view ports. It looks good.

mwnciboo wrote:If you brush Gloss on, you can make armour pieces look shiny whilst the rest of the model is matt, a very useful technique.

The problem I have with using Gloss all over, is that light reflects at awkward and unrealistic angles. This makes the whole point of highlighting pointless. e.g if you are going to gloss your models don't bother highlighting them.

An extreme edge highlight looks quite nice with a glosscoat.

That said, if your doing shading / layered highlights, then yea, you destroy a lot of detail with a glosscoat.

Smacks wrote:Yeah to elaborate more on what Howard said, gloss varnish tends to be a lot tougher and harder wearing than matte, so no matter what end finish you desire, it is never a bad idea to varnish in gloss first.

This is a myth. It's based on anecdote and confirmation bias.

The real reason gloss varnish is good is because you never miss a spot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On topic, I like gloss on KEY parts. If something on the model is supposed to be a really exotic material, I sometimes gloss it up a little.

I also do it to some tyranid teeth and tongues.

@ Horst you are completely right, extreme highlighting is still visible. I was possibly over exaggerating the effect, but shiny varnish does take away some of the highlighting effects.

I use gloss selectively, for wet tongues or glass-smooth gems and lenses, but overall, I prefer a matte finish. Part of the reason gloss looks so weird is scale. What would normally be incredibly shiny should, at the 28mm scale, be satin, at most, because holding the figure at arm's length is the equivalent of looking at the "real thing" from a few hundred feet away. Few fantasy/sci-fi wargamers paint to scale (everything goes matte, saturation drops, all things tend towards a hazy gray), but a high gloss finish is more jarring than painting black-painted armor using black paint. That said, a touch more variety in the varnish sheen department might do a number of painters some good, as it's an area that few, even among those with skill, seem to play around with.

Rented Tritium wrote:

Smacks wrote:Yeah to elaborate more on what Howard said, gloss varnish tends to be a lot tougher and harder wearing than matte, so no matter what end finish you desire, it is never a bad idea to varnish in gloss first.

This is a myth. It's based on anecdote and confirmation bias.

The real reason gloss varnish is good is because you never miss a spot.

Yeah I saw this article was posted over at 40konline, which says the same thing. The original contention was that the matting agent makes matt varnish slightly weaker, the article claims that it doesn't, but it doesn't really offer up any new evidence to support that claim.

To be honest, I don't really see any reason to believe one unproven claim over another equally unproven claim, to be able to say for certain that it is a myth. I would expect that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. My own opinion is that gloss probably is fractionally tougher, yet the difference is probably negligible enough that it probably won't matter.

I tend to gloss coat first just out of habit/superstition/being a sheep/believing the hype/making certain. I imagine I will continue to do so. If whatever reason I was forced to use just matt on its own. Then I expect I would be equally happy with that. I really just want something to protect my miniatures a bit from handling. It's not like they're being launched into space, and have to survive re-entry, or anything too serious.

Thanks for everyone's input! I guess it's all up to personal preference.
I like the idea of using it selectively, actually. Armour especially.

Rented Tritium wrote:

Smacks wrote:Yeah to elaborate more on what Howard said, gloss varnish tends to be a lot tougher and harder wearing than matte, so no matter what end finish you desire, it is never a bad idea to varnish in gloss first.

This is a myth. It's based on anecdote and confirmation bias.

The real reason gloss varnish is good is because you never miss a spot.

Well both of these are myths really.....to understand why gloss coat seams to protect better than flat or dull, you need to understand the way they work...

When you lay down a gloss coat of any medium really the particles of paint/binder/carrier line up in a uniform fashion much like this;

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Even though the surface underneath the coat may be uneven, the gloss based medium has a leveling agent in it that causes everything to line up. This smooth surface makes for ideal circumstances for light to refract and reflect off of the surface giving the appearance of a "gloss" or wet look. Because the surface is smooth, when things are brushed up against the surface there is nothing to bit against resulting in no damage being delivered.

Now when you spray a flat paint, the paint/binder/medium is designed to follow closely the contours of the surface that it is being applied too, something like this;

-_-_-_--_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

This uneven surface provides excellent tooth and when something is dragged across in it is more likely to becomes damaged do to it's uneven surface. As an experiment, take a color, apply it to a surface in two spots. Then cover one in a glass coat, cover the other in a flat, give them time to dry and start running your finger across them, the flat one will wear much faster than the gloss coat.

Personally, I gloss coat, then dull coat.

Ashton

Redfinger wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

Smacks wrote:Yeah to elaborate more on what Howard said, gloss varnish tends to be a lot tougher and harder wearing than matte, so no matter what end finish you desire, it is never a bad idea to varnish in gloss first.

This is a myth. It's based on anecdote and confirmation bias.

The real reason gloss varnish is good is because you never miss a spot.

Well both of these are myths really.....to understand why gloss coat seams to protect better than flat or dull, you need to understand the way they work...

When you lay down a gloss coat of any medium really the particles of paint/binder/carrier line up in a uniform fashion much like this;

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Even though the surface underneath the coat may be uneven, the gloss based medium has a leveling agent in it that causes everything to line up. This smooth surface makes for ideal circumstances for light to refract and reflect off of the surface giving the appearance of a "gloss" or wet look. Because the surface is smooth, when things are brushed up against the surface there is nothing to bit against resulting in no damage being delivered.

Now when you spray a flat paint, the paint/binder/medium is designed to follow closely the contours of the surface that it is being applied too, something like this;

-_-_-_--_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

This uneven surface provides excellent tooth and when something is dragged across in it is more likely to becomes damaged do to it's uneven surface. As an experiment, take a color, apply it to a surface in two spots. Then cover one in a glass coat, cover the other in a flat, give them time to dry and start running your finger across them, the flat one will wear much faster than the gloss coat.

Personally, I gloss coat, then dull coat.

Ashton

best answer so far.

I use a semi-gloss sealant on my all three of my armies. After a while I just realized a matte finish dullled up all of the work I did to make colors pop.

So adding a shiny sealant makes the model simply look better.

I prefer gloss varnish it makes my deathwing terminators look menacing

I only use it for gems leather and liquid. if its on flesh it just looks wrong/stupid >_<

All are good comments. It really depends on use. On my Black Templars I used a gloss on the black power armor with an extreme edge highlight, and matte on everything that's not the black power armor/eyes/gems. Looks great and protects the edge highlight.

I've recently come around on using Vallejo Satin Varnish on my models... looks much nicer than gloss.

The only way I would ever do a gloss finish, is if I was trying to achieve a certain effect. Such as making something appear intentionally slimy, gory, etc.

I've tried to strip WAY too many models with a gloss coat over a gakky paintjob, and I can guarantee you, its usually not pleasant. At all.

However, I do like the idea of using gloss then covering it in matte. I'd never considered that before

Gloss then satin is how I do it to knock down the highlights from the gloss - just the way I've worked over the years