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I was thinking about starting up on warhammer after a few years of playing war hammer 40k, and the only armies that can hold my attention are those that move fast and hit hard. So I was wondering, which army should I look at first to have very fast movement and maybe a cool large monster?

AFAIK, consistently fast you've got bretonnia, elves to a lesser degree and then it sort of gets pretty even on movement.

Monsters, you've got the super-duper new beastmen who also move pretty fast as well

Ogres.

Basically their slowest units are as fast as horses. They hit like fat trucks. They don't got a big monster. They got one unit of non-big monsters, everything else is pretty damn large and monstery.

If you want really really really fast, go Slaanesh Daemons. Some units are the fastest in the game. But they all look like mutant strippers.

I mean I was looking at dark elves and they have core dark riders which have an m value of 9 it seems pretty fast, just wanted to confirm whether or not it is?

Woc. Chaos knights move pretty far and smash most things. Its good times.

Ogres they are not mobile like WE but they have a pretty high movement and the damage they do with impact hits and stomps is good times.

Zro1312 wrote:I was thinking about starting up on warhammer after a few years of playing war hammer 40k, and the only armies that can hold my attention are those that move fast and hit hard. So I was wondering, which army should I look at first to have very fast movement and maybe a cool large monster?

I would suggest ogres. While not superfast, they are consistently fast. Additionally, the list is so strong that it is hard to go wrong with it. It is definitely more forgiving than most other lists. Also, they have their choice of cool big monsters and cool smaller monsters.

Ogers all the way, they move enoung to be on your opponet rather fast, And they do a ton of damage when they get there. And they got Stonehorns and Gorgers witch is just good times

Zro1312 wrote:I mean I was looking at dark elves and they have core dark riders which have an m value of 9 it seems pretty fast, just wanted to confirm whether or not it is?

That is one of the fastest non-flying units out there, but they don't hit very hard. More of a harassing unit.

DukeRustfield wrote:Ogres. They don't got a big monster.

Not sure if serious

did you miss Stonehorns and Thundertusks?





Ogres are a fast army. Only all Cavelry armies can move faster, and all cavelry armies are pretty rare now days outside of Brettonians(which are struggling to compete)


The basic tactic is to smash something, but you have to be careful about what you smash and when. ogres are a moderate finesse army. you need to carefully use chaff(Sabretusks) to control the movement phase so you can slam hope where you will win.

Mournfangs, the best unit in the game for its points(may be slightly undercosted, but not to Hydra or HPA levels) These guys, when given Ironfists and Heavy Armor, are death to any infantry unit that is Str3 and T3. Str4 and T4 fairs little better. Str5+ does the opposite and wrecks the Mournfangs.

They are also just as fast as brett heavy cavelry(M8) but hit much harder.

ogres are a moderate finesse army.

What do you consider as not being a finesse army?

Finesse means it requires more thought and tactical decision making then a "normal" army.

the opposite of finesse is basically "point and click"


a Point and Click army would be something like Empire or Dwarf gunline, 7th ed daemons, Dark Elves, MoK marauder bus lists...

ogres are NOT point and click, but they don't need as much thinking as true finesse armies(like Brettonians, WEs, HEs)

I am not saying your wrong, but I do disagree. Ogres have surprising utility, that does not make them a finesse army in my book.

This is why I think they are the perfect army for someone new to the game who is wishing for speed and hitting power.

I would agree with ogres but to be honest I'm not the biggest fan of the models. I really love the dragons so I'm mostly stuck between all the elf factions, I'm leaning towards dark or wood elves but is the dragon mage of caledor any good?

Sadly, Dragon mages are kinda meh, as are ANY type of dragon.

Case in point: 2 weeks ago I was playing the 2nd game of round one in my local GT.

HE prince, fully decked out, on a Star Dragon.

Turn 1. My Ironblaster goes BOOM!!! No more Dragon, prince passes his 4+ invuln and lives.

Turn 2. Again, Boom! Prince fails 4+ ward and evaporates.


Dragons die VERY quickly to Cannons. against regular shooting they do better, but they can come down to volume of fire. The fact they can't hide as effectivly anymore coupled with nothing stopping a Cannonball means they are really just a big point sink that you are desperatly hoping can get into combat before it dies.

MakeH wrote:I am not saying your wrong, but I do disagree. Ogres have surprising utility, that does not make them a finesse army in my book.

This is why I think they are the perfect army for someone new to the game who is wishing for speed and hitting power.

hence why I say its "moderate" finesse.


Its the "easy to play, but hard to master" kinda thing. Just like Vanilla space marines, now there is an army that is tough to get juuuust right.

So is there anyway to get a large beast in the game, other wise it seems kind of like wh40k, if dragons are terrible, are something like a hydra or manticore good?

The Hydra is really good because its got Regeneration and is severly undercosted.


The only monsters that are any good are basically,

Hydra(regeneration/cost)

Stonehorn(halves multiple wounds and can do alot of damage)

Thundertusk(Aura of ASL and shooting attacks)

Arachnarok(can't be killed by a cannon in one round due to 8 wounds and its really fast)

Sphinxs(really high toughness and speed)


everything else is pretty much garbage sadly.

Sorry one more question about this, lets say hypothetically I really wanted a dragon even just for fun games since I mostly play against my brother and need to give him a small advantage anyway, what would be the strongest dragon?

a Chaos dragon as far as whats in Army Books.


Alternativly, you can get the Storm of Magic book expansion and use the bound monsters in there. There are a few different types of dragons in there that can be used with any army in a Storm of Magic game. You could just use the points costs in a regular game if you agree to it.

Sorry, I should've been more clear, he doesn't allow literally anything written in the codex exactly (kind of annoying, not much I can do about it) and I was thinking about chaos but we kind of choose armies and aren't aloud to play as each others and he happened to choose chaos so I'm stuck with dragon I guess with all three of the elf races. I meant to say which of those three have the best dragons?

High Elves in that case

Grey Templar wrote:The Hydra is really good because its got Regeneration and is severly undercosted.


The only monsters that are any good are basically,

Hydra(regeneration/cost)

Stonehorn(halves multiple wounds and can do alot of damage)

Thundertusk(Aura of ASL and shooting attacks)

Arachnarok(can't be killed by a cannon in one round due to 8 wounds and its really fast)

Sphinxs(really high toughness and speed)
everything else is pretty much garbage sadly.

You for got these:

Hellpit abomb (Skaven, undercosted and can demolish units at a time)

Bloodthirster (Good olde killing machine)

Lord of change (Good spellcaster and relativly good in combat, ws6, s6, t6, a5, i6)

Great unclean one (a giant sponge but with balesword can kill other monsters outright)

Keeper of secrets (A very fast m10 killing machine that can regain wounds with soul swallower)

Hellcannon (A s5 stonethrower that can cause other wizards to miscast and it a killing machine in combat as well)

Edit: Why dont you get vampire counts. they recently had a mini wave with a cool dragon model released and rumours say that they are getting redone in january which if that is the case we will find out at the end of the month which is perfect for spending that christmas money on. Just save up and research all armies and weight up the advantages and disadvantages.

Grey Templar wrote:The Hydra is really good because its got Regeneration and is severly undercosted.


The only monsters that are any good are basically,

Hydra(regeneration/cost)

Stonehorn(halves multiple wounds and can do alot of damage)

Thundertusk(Aura of ASL and shooting attacks)

Arachnarok(can't be killed by a cannon in one round due to 8 wounds and its really fast)

Sphinxs(really high toughness and speed)


everything else is pretty much garbage sadly.

This saddens me. I just started fantasy and bought 4 Stegadons (Because I love them), and was looking forward to trying them out.
But if 1 cannon ball can kill my babies...

Zro1312 wrote:Sorry, I should've been more clear, he doesn't allow literally anything written in the codex exactly (kind of annoying, not much I can do about it) and I was thinking about chaos but we kind of choose armies and aren't aloud to play as each others and he happened to choose chaos so I'm stuck with dragon I guess with all three of the elf races. I meant to say which of those three have the best dragons?

From the elves, Dark Elves are generally the strongest and they get good stuff for the dragon rider.
High elves have the best dragon and the rider gets decent stuff too. A fun build is to run him as a mage fielding the death ld snipe spell.

Hmmm, thats a good idea with the vampire counts, I'll have to look into that, most importantly however are they fast?

MakeH wrote:

ogres are a moderate finesse army.

What do you consider as not being a finesse army?

Ever played a Skaven player with 300+ slaves?

I would say ogres also but it seems a bit bandwagony to me so go with Throgg! King of Trolls!

Anyway I guess I'll have to hold out till late december to find out if vampires are getting redone but until the line just to practice playing I came up with a high elves test list including a dragon so anyway what do you think?

Dragon Mage of Caledor, Level 2 Wizard, Silver Wand, Guardian Phoenix: 420pts.
Mage, Level 2 Wizard, Armour of Caledor, Silver Wand, Elven Steed: 182
8 Phoenix Guard: 120pts.
15 Archers, light armor, hawk eye: 190pts.
15 Archers, (13 with light armour), hawk eye: 188pts.
5 Dragon Princes of Caledor: 150pts.
5 Dragon Princes of Caledor: 150pts
Repeater Bolt Thrower: 100pts.

James100 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:The Hydra is really good because its got Regeneration and is severly undercosted.


The only monsters that are any good are basically,

Hydra(regeneration/cost)

Stonehorn(halves multiple wounds and can do alot of damage)

Thundertusk(Aura of ASL and shooting attacks)

Arachnarok(can't be killed by a cannon in one round due to 8 wounds and its really fast)

Sphinxs(really high toughness and speed)
everything else is pretty much garbage sadly.

You for got these:
Hellpit abomb (Skaven, undercosted and can demolish units at a time)

Bloodthirster (Good olde killing machine)

Lord of change (Good spellcaster and relativly good in combat, ws6, s6, t6, a5, i6)

Great unclean one (a giant sponge but with balesword can kill other monsters outright)

Keeper of secrets (A very fast m10 killing machine that can regain wounds with soul swallower)

Hellcannon (A s5 stonethrower that can cause other wizards to miscast and it a killing machine in combat as well)

Pardon me while I go jump off a bridge



I would hesitate to put the hellcannon in this classification though. its more of a warmachine that likes to bite people just as much as shoot them.

"Monster" doesnt always mean Monster in this context. A Warshrine is technically a monster, but we would never treat it like one.

Hellcannon fits I think. It reminds me of the little angry guy, reason I say that is well its smaller than most of those monsters even in the fluff iirc and it is quite scary and angry.

Definitely an awesome monster.

While dragons with riders are cannon magnets there is a few things on their side.

1) Movement, they can hide and pick their fights.
2) in 8th there is more terrain than in times past, this allows more hiding spots.
3) high elves have access to lore of light, and can if they want it have Pha's available at all times.
4) Threat diversification. Drop down a horde of swordmasters and see what unit gets the attention.

Unless you roll/use a lot of buidings and barriers there is almost nothing that can hide you from a cannon. Forests don't, hills don't, rivers don't...

The cannon doesn't even need to see you, it just needs to see the spot on the ground he is aiming at. then the bounce can go out of his LoS.


As far as threat diversification, a horde of Swordmasters isn't a target for the cannon. Whats he going to do? kill 4 dudes a turn till they rip into my lines and allow the dragon to get there unmolested.

The dragon is going to eat lead, because it is a threat and a target that is meant for the cannon. Dragons are still nasty in combat, even more so then in 7th. Their issue is getting into combat alive.


Pha's protection: yeah, you can take that if you are running lots of dragons and its a good idea. The problem is that only 1 wizard will have it and, unless its Teclis who should have lore of life, then its pretty easy for an opponent to make sure that one spell is dispelled above all others. And it only takes one shooting round to take a Dragon down. 2 cannons should kill the dragon outright and it can be done with one.