Warhammer Fantasy Rumours (incl. release schedules): Dwarf and WE release list rumour 15th November

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**Red_Zeke**

I have a hard time believing they'd wipe out all those hardbacks, but I've also been proved wrong in the past, so who knows.

And yeah, I'm getting excited for a new Dwarf book.

**flamingkillamajig**

Did anybody see that one picture at the bottom of 'What's New Today' on the GW website?

I might be wrong here but it looks like a new wood elf unit. Once again it could just be something from somewhere else including forge world that I just don't recognize.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=12500064

**Kanluwen**

It's the C'Tan from the Tesseract Vault.

**Red_Zeke**

It looks to me like a C'Tan Shard from the super-duper monolith (or whatever that thing is) with some branches green-stuffed on. Super cool idea, but pretty sure its purely a one-off conversion.

Edit: KAN-LU-WEN!!!!! <shakes fist>

**flamingkillamajig**

Yep you guys are right. Sorry false alarm. I tried checking but I didn't see anything so I posted. I'm kind of out of the loop with 40k but I should have known that.

You gotta admit though that's something the wood elves should totally get. It's sort of like a king of dryads.

**quickfuze**

RiTides wrote:
I'm excited for the new dwarf book . Even if 9th edition makes my chaos dwarfs hard to use, I'm thinking I might be able to use them as regular dwarfs. So, glad they're getting updated, and at a time when they should be made with 9th edition in mind.

Of course, if I buy the book I'll know it's got a 6-month ticking clock on it... not sure if the army books will be totally invalid after the release of 9th, or if they'll still be useful in some way.

Well hopefully FW will put out a timely errata on them!

**RiTides**

Any thoughts from rumor mongers on 9th edition fantasy (and timelines for it) since the other thread had a consolidated 6.5e rulebook for 40k knocking it out of the queue for summer?

**silent25**

Harry has been talkative over at Warseer. BoLS compiled most of his comments here.

Fantasy Big Picture (regarding WFB sales)
- ...I seem to remember Fantasy being in the 20 something %'s. (This is a few years ago)

- It may well have fallen below 20% now. (I have heard it is not doing so well)

- I seem to remember the biggest Fantasy army (can't remember if it was Empire or Orcs and Goblins) was making about 5%. (Maybe even 7%)

- The smallest Fantasy army was making as little as 1%

- Now when you consider they make over 10 Million in profit it still seems 1% of that is still worth having ... except when the plastic moulds cost as much as they do it is hard to make much profit out of a Wood Elf mould. Where as a Space Marine mould ... will make twenty times as much from the same costs.

- Makes it a bit easier to understand the release schedule?

Fantasy "Solutions"
- I heard they (GW) did experiments to try to discover if it was the price of the kits .... they released the Dark Elf Cold One Knights and the Chaos Knights at a lower price point to see if everyone bought twice as many as is so often stated ... They didn't. The same people bought exactly the same number of boxes as they do at the higher price point (I am not saying this is what happened ... or that they concluded they might as well continue to charge more for their kits to make a greater return ... I am just saying that is what I heard).

- About Shelving 9th Edition ... I did hear that they had discussed shelving fantasy FULL STOP! (Not sure how long that discussion was before it was abandoned, but that's what I heard)
- I heard they discussed losing some of the least popular armies.
- I heard they discussed condensing the army books into less volumes. (So the less popular armies could survive)
- I heard one Warhammer armies book ... I heard two books?
- I have no idea where the dust settled on these discussions except that they decided to do something .... and that it would have to be radical.

Fantasy 9th Schedule
- As far as I know I am the only person to have predicted 2014 for 9th edition ... because I assumed it must be around the corner based on the timescales I usually hear stuff. But Hastings posted almost immediately to say he had heard it was 2015. I always assume he is correct and I am incorrect ... (hastings =Jedi Master Harry=Young apprentice). I don't think 9th edition has been pushed back or shelved. I think when I posted to say it was coming in 2014 ... I was wrong.

Regarding what I have heard with WHFB, as of last summer, sales were down 40% over the same period during 7th edition. If Harry's 20% was relative to the start of 8th, that means it is more likely in the low teens now. GW is likely trying to decide what to do with Fantasy as they are currently thinking they are throwing good money after bad. Which is a shame, love Fantasy and don't want to see it disappear.

One rumor my FLGS owner is talking about is that 9th will be the last edition released of the game and will be a digital only release, but will become a living document receiving changes and updates as they come. Essentially what Specialist Games became, and we know what GW did with that

**jojo_monkey_boy**

If these rumours are true, you sort of have to wonder again about the way GW manages their products. Fantasy is expensive and the last edition made it even more expensive by upping model counts. Concurrent with that change, GW started breaking some regiment sets into boxes of 10 while also raising prices on elite infantry.

It may be that on the whole, the 40k setting and game are more popular, but I do not think GW understands what they've done to make fantasy less popular.

Are we moving towards a future in which GW's entire business is Space Marine battles?

**NoggintheNog**

jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
If these rumours are true, you sort of have to wonder again about the way GW manages their products. Fantasy is expensive and the last edition made it even more expensive by upping model counts. Concurrent with that change, GW started breaking some regiment sets into boxes of 10 while also raising prices on elite infantry.

It may be that on the whole, the 40k setting and game are more popular, but I do not think GW understands what they've done to make fantasy less popular.

Are we moving towards a future in which GW's entire business is Space Marine battles?

I don't think its that they do not understand what they have done to make fantasy unpopular, its that , to me at least, it seems GW management cannot ever take responsibility when it goes wrong, so its more that they cannot admit what they did made fantasy less popular.

**Sasori**

jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
If these rumours are true, you sort of have to wonder again about the way GW manages their products. Fantasy is expensive and the last edition made it even more expensive by upping model counts. Concurrent with that change, GW started breaking some regiment sets into boxes of 10 while also raising prices on elite infantry.

It may be that on the whole, the 40k setting and game are more popular, but I do not think GW understands what they've done to make fantasy less popular.

Are we moving towards a future in which GW's entire business is Space Marine battles?

Yeah, I fail to see how GW cannot see it's the prices that are preventing Fantasy from growing. It is just too expensive to start an army now, and they are going to loose sales if they can't get people to start new armies, weather this be new players or Old players. I would love to start a Dark Elves and Warriors of Chaos Army, but there is no way with the current prices. It is just not going to happen.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Can anybody name any mini game which has significantly reduced the number of models on the table ?

I can't think of any,

I can think of lots that have slowly (or not so slowly) moved from small model count, skirmish games to higher model count skirmish games and finally to army scale games

it's a consequence of giving players more toys to buy, they buy them and want to use them, you see the same thing with tournaments a slow creep up in points sizes

I just can't see how they can make fantasy smaller (and so more affordable) now its got so large

**Alpharius**

- Now when you consider they make over 10 Million in profit it still seems 1% of that is still worth having ... except when the plastic moulds cost as much as they do it is hard to make much profit out of a Wood Elf mould. Where as a Space Marine mould ... will make twenty times as much from the same costs.

- Makes it a bit easier to understand the release schedule?

I guess it does - but it is also pretty obvious that that is also a self-fulfilling prophecy too.

GW would be daft to screw WFB as hard as they are.

So, yeah, WFB is screwed.

Especially as many of the things that are 'wrong' with 40K 6th will undoubtedly be ported over to WFB 9th, whenever it gets released.

**jonolikespie**

Alpharius wrote:
- Now when you consider they make over 10 Million in profit it still seems 1% of that is still worth having ... except when the plastic moulds cost as much as they do it is hard to make much profit out of a Wood Elf mould. Where as a Space Marine mould ... will make twenty times as much from the same costs.

- Makes it a bit easier to understand the release schedule?

I guess it does - but it is also pretty obvious that that is also a self-fulfilling prophecy too.

GW would be daft to screw WFB as hard as they are.

So, yeah, WFB is screwed.

Especially as many of the things that are 'wrong' with 40K 6th will undoubtedly be ported over to WFB 9th, whenever it gets released.

I know I already don't expect to ever pick up the 9th rulebook until after I have tried it, and that is what I told myself about 6th ed 40k when it came out (just before I 'officially' quit, I hadn't played for months though).

A year ago I was all over fantasy but now these rumours of 9th are just killing all interest.

**Allod**

I don't know. With the overabundance of redundant new units just to make another plastic box "dual use" and the route 40k is taking on the one hand and the currently rather intact balance and aesthetic integrity of the Fantasy lines on the other hand, I would rather be looking forward to a "freeze" of Fantasy development after all armybooks have been redone for 8th edition.

Publish a few campaign books, terrain pieces and expansions here and there and you're set as long as Fantasy doesn't actually produce a net loss. But I guess that's just wishful thinking.

**reds8n**

The orcs & goblins used to be the best selling WFB army, at least a few years ago.

IIRC it was in fact a "rule" that a GW store had to have a painted orc force on display in the cabinets.

**RiTides**

But who has started Orcs & Goblins after the orc box contents got halved for almost the same price?

Bummer about 2015, I was really looking forward to a new edition.

Thanks for the info, silent (and Harry, of course!).

**fullheadofhair**

I am one of those people who left WFB over 8th Ed. Absolutely hated it. Enjoyed the changes prior to that and the tidying up but truth be told WFB 8th was a new game rather than an organic growth from the prior edition,

As soon as people realized they could they started constantly putting down 50+ or even 100+ units of models. Combine that with significant changes to how effective Cav charges are and then that annoying randomness of charges overall and most of the tactical play evaporated.

Throw in the obligatory large monster needed and then rare/ specially models that cost $70 or $80 for three models, $50 army books and core troops than dropped in # in the box without an equal drop in price and I was out.

In 2013 GW got some small paint purchases, some GS and a box of new raptors out of me. That';s it. Saved me a fortune.

I am selling the last few models I own and am shifting focus to military modelling and away from gaming in general. Sticking more with board games for my gaming fix - less dumbass interferance and less constant upgrading and more semblence of balance.

**Elemental**

fullheadofhair wrote:

I am selling the last few models I own and am shifting focus to military modelling and away from gaming in general. Sticking more with board games for my gaming fix - less dumbass interferance and less constant upgrading and more semblence of balance.

You, um, do know there's other games out there apart from the Warhammers? You can use your WHF models unchanged for some of them, and others only require ten or so models anyway. Not wanting to proselytise, but just pointing out you can abandon GW without giving up on wargaming completely.

**fullheadofhair**

Elemental wrote:
fullheadofhair wrote:

I am selling the last few models I own and am shifting focus to military modelling and away from gaming in general. Sticking more with board games for my gaming fix - less dumbass interferance and less constant upgrading and more semblence of balance.

You, um, do know there's other games out there apart from the Warhammers? You can use your WHF models unchanged for some of them, and others only require ten or so models anyway. Not wanting to proselytise, but just pointing out you can abandon GW without giving up on wargaming completely.

Really, there are other games??? Skirmish games with only 10 models??? Wow - would never have guessed what all those other boxes in the stores were. Thought they were for decoration. Why is it that people seem to think that they are the only ones who know about other mini games other than GW games and that no-one has tried other games other than 40k or WFB. It is really annoying Dakka habit.

I am "shifting away from gaming in general" - i.e in general, meaning all - not just GWgaming. I think I am just done with the constant needless revision. WFB 8th ed just made me look at all the games I play and realize that many of the games I am in are in fact similar in that regard and I made a decision to move away from them all. It is why I have sold 99% of my GW stuff, working through selling my C3 stuff and PP stuff and looking hard at my FOW stuff. I have put off my move into Bolt Action. Strangely enough I think I may keep my Pirates of the Spanish Main stuff as that is largely dead but oh such a fun game.

**Charles Rampant**

So, uh, why are you posting in this thread then? Get a blog if you want to tell the world why you are leaving Wargaming, and please leave this thread for discussion of upcoming Fantasy rumours.

**Kroothawk**

Well, to get back to topic, here another take on Dwarf rumours:

GDD over at Chaos-Dwarfs wrote:Hello! I got some potential leaks from the same guy that leaked the DE units. This is regarding the GW vanilla Dwarfs. Sorry if this is a duplicate thread.

QUOTE

OrcCrusher / Tunneler (combo kit)
Runic Anvil / War Altar (combo box)
Gyrocopter Squadron Box
Thunderers / Crossbowmen / Dwarf Warriors Box (10)
Hammerers / Ironbreaker Box
Slayers / Brotherhood of Grimmir Box
Longbeards / Rangers Box

- There will be more magic activity and movement than before (something everybody expect).

- The runes system is going to be like now but with some changes in the "laws". Some of them are going to reduce their point cost and there will be less options. Basically are going to be created magic items, some people speak about add runes into already existing magic items from rulebook... with some blacksmith skill...

- Runelords will have some changes, they will have innate spells (like empire warrior priests). And the anvil will make those spells stronger.

- Rune combos in warmachines are going to suffer nerfs. There will be a cost point reduction but also the destruction capacity will be decreased (except for the organ cannon, that will become a nightmare...)

- Points cost reduction in infantry.

- They speak about robot/rock golems similars to Blackrock Deeps in world of warcraft.

**Tangent**

And who is the supplier of those rumors? Is that guy credible?

**Red_Zeke**

That's some interesting stuff. The dual slayer kit makes a lot of sense in light of the dual Witch Elf kit.

I'm kinda surprised that its saying the organ gun will "become" a nightmare. If there's one army book selection that gets more grief than any other, that's probably it.

Definitely think it makes sense to give prayers, or bound runic "spells". Lower power, lower risk, greater reliability.

**Avian**

That's a rehash of a list of rumours from one of the more unreliable types. It's NOT the guy who brought us the DE list.

It's this guy:

Maelström - Total rumors: (3 TRUE) / (16 FALSE) / (4 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

**Alpharius**

That's...not an impressive record.

I'm still really looking forward to Dwarves though - especially as the 'counts as' route may be the only way I'll be able to get some Chaos Dwarves into WFB anytime soon.

**chilledmonkeybrains**

For fear of being accused of threadomancy (sorry mods!) has anyone heard anymore regarding a new Wood Elf army book?

**Kroothawk**

If there were, it would have been posted. But Wood Elves seem to be the next Fantasy army.

**Tangent**

I've been wondering that, myself. Also, like everyone else I'm sure, I'm interested to know if there's been much other chatter regarding 9th edition this year. But even if there's no 9th edition and Dwarfs, Wood Elves, and Brettonians get back-to-back-to-back releases, that will be pretty cool.

**Wolflord Patrick**

Everything has been pretty silent since the Dwarfs came out in February. (Granted I couldn't be happier to see them get a book since I play Dwarfs.)

However, my gut tells me that we're going to see Skaven as the next army release. I would absolutely love to see a Bretonnian or a Wood Elf book, but unfortunately I don't think it will be.

Realistically, I would think that a Bretonnian book would be a somewhat simple release. With the exception of the Questing Knights and the Grail Knights, everything else is already in plastic or Fine Cast. They could do a combo box for the Questing/Grail Knights and maybe a new plastic kit for the Trebuchet. Rules wise, they really just need something to break Steadfast which I think you could easily write into new rules for the Lance formation or build into a magic standard.