Warhammer Fantasy Rumours (incl. release schedules): Dwarf and WE release list rumour 15th November

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**Surloch**

Wow I am just getting back into fantasy and most of my old lizardman army was made impossible or useless under the new rules. So was going to wait until a new rule book released before getting back into it. I guess I can give up that idea and may as well just start from scratch :(

**Aerethan**

How old is your army that the units are impossible or useless?

Most units for LM are still pretty decent.

**Kroothawk**

Useless to ask for a new armybook for a niche army after 3 years, when others wait for 7-8 years (and counting). And no armybook is more broken than Wood Elves.

**The CF**

Kroothawk wrote:Useless to ask for a new armybook for a niche army after 3 years, when others wait for 7-8 years (and counting). And no armybook is more broken than Wood Elves.

Are we thinking of the same kind of broken?

**Kroothawk**

Well broken in the sense of being practically unplayable and underperforming

**Aerethan**

Broken works 2 ways:
Overpowered
Underpowered

7th edition VC were the first, current WE are the second.

**Surloch**

Aerethan wrote:How old is your army that the units are impossible or useless?

Most units for LM are still pretty decent.

From what I remember when I looked at the new army book, my metal "Skinks with Javelins" were no longer possible under the new rules. It looks like they have all moved to blowpipes now. That's 30 odd mini's down the drain.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong though, as I didn't buy the books from dissapointment when I saw that in store so perhaps I missed some fine print?

Also, old stegadon's with the bow are now replaced by Ancient ones with some relic or something.

Then finally my two Slann mage's are on the backs of Temple Guard. How does this work now that they just float around? I suppose most people would still allow you to use the old models but they no longer really fit into my Temple Guard regiment they way they used to.

It just annoys me that they made so many fundemental changes to the look of the army and basically released not just new scults of mini's (which I wouldn't care about) but changed the entire type and design and thought behind the army.

**kenshin620**

Surloch wrote:

From what I remember when I looked at the new army book, my metal "Skinks with Javelins" were no longer possible under the new rules. It looks like they have all moved to blowpipes now. That's 30 odd mini's down the drain.

You're thinking about Skinks with shortbows not javelins. Javelin skinks are still quite in

**Aerethan**

Surloch wrote:
Aerethan wrote:How old is your army that the units are impossible or useless?

Most units for LM are still pretty decent.

From what I remember when I looked at the new army book, my metal "Skinks with Javelins" were no longer possible under the new rules. It looks like they have all moved to blowpipes now. That's 30 odd mini's down the drain.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong though, as I didn't buy the books from dissapointment when I saw that in store so perhaps I missed some fine print?

Also, old stegadon's with the bow are now replaced by Ancient ones with some relic or something.

Then finally my two Slann mage's are on the backs of Temple Guard. How does this work now that they just float around? I suppose most people would still allow you to use the old models but they no longer really fit into my Temple Guard regiment they way they used to.

It just annoys me that they made so many fundemental changes to the look of the army and basically released not just new scults of mini's (which I wouldn't care about) but changed the entire type and design and thought behind the army.

Javelins are still usable, perhaps not ideal.

Stegadons still have giant bows available, as well as blowpipes or the Engine of the Gods.

If you could rebase the slann onto a 50mm base then they would work even with the saurus.

Honestly though, most of those changes happened in like 2003 during 6th edition, so they aren't exactly new.

**Surloch**

Well that's good news, thanks for all the advice everyone. Rather than derail the rumours thread further I might get into the Lizardman forums and try to sort out how I can get back into the game after 10 years break without having to spend too much on new plastics

**Kroothawk**

On Wood Elves:

Antipathy from Warseer wrote:From my usual sources (Re; Breton and High Elf), I've heard that there's not only a Plastic Dragon (Spellweaver/Highborn options; no comment yet on Sisters of Twilight), but also a Plastic Set for Eternal Guard equipped with Saearath - presuming 10 to a set like High Elven Elites, including full command. Other than being plastic, I have been told that they will remain in the same style aesthetic so as not to clash with the existing Metal models - which in turn will also become direct only models.

As for the Wild Riders, they're becoming "larger" and "much deadlier", including vine/ivy wreathed horns and "immense mounts" - matching the Orion, Vaults of Winter novel description. Whether they become the rumoured/(un)wanted for "Stag Knights" or Monstrous Cavalry in any form is unknown other than their size compared to the comparatively slightly built elves was heavily stressed.

Lastly - Scouts become their own unit choice, but are still limited in their selection; I think this means either Special choices, or not counting towards the minimum 25% Core - rumours of a character/kindred (I'm leaning hopefully towards Skarloc) remove this limitation; either shifting towards core, or counting towards the minimum 25%.

**pretre**

Adding to Ongoing Rumor thread.

**Kroothawk**

Hasting's current set of rumours translate into this prediction:

Sept: CSM
Oct: WoC
Next: Dark Angels
Next (Febr latest): Codex Chaos Daemons, Daemons of Chaos armybook.
Next: High Elves
Next: Lizardmen armybook.
At least two more, before Wood Elves get their release.

All new releases completed within 8 months in 2-3 waves, as with Necrons.

**Aerethan**

Yay! my elves are all being left alone according to that schedule!!!

**Kroothawk**

Hastings said that High Elves will get flying chariots.

Antipathy from Warseer on Lizardmen:

Just a couple of rumours, that I feel should be taken with a pinch of salt (actually, take a pinch of salt out of the bag, then just tip the bag over the shoulder) pertaining to the rumoured Lizards - rumour sources are as yet unverified for the most part and unreliable;

In short - monster heavy.

I have the date of a late summer/early autumn release next year for Lizardmen, which sort of matches Harry's prediction of Mid 2013.

There are whisperings of a new "super monstrous cavalry" unit; pertaining in particular to units of Carnosaur mounted Saurus; I believe this is more akin to a ridden monster rare unit like a Stonehorn. I have heard of a new plastic carnosaur (singular); as well, but nothing concrete. It will also be the first time in 8th Edition (to date) that a character will be able to ride the same monstrous beast as the unit in its army - the Empire peg-captain doesn't count, and that's presuming that Grymloq changes to MC, rather than staying as a Monster.

Slann now becomes a multi-part plastic set - availability for a Relic Priest (Kroak, including Deathmask), a normal Priest, and a special limited edition plastic combination pack (similar to the Exalted Daemon Chariot) that combines a Stegadon and a Slann Priest to recreate Mazdamundi. In addition, they get access to Disciplines, but these may not be taken more than once. Reading into rumours suggests that Slann have Loremaster (see below for reasoning).

All Saurus armies become "viable" thanks to the return of Sacred Spawnings - units can purchase Sacred Spawnings like a Mark of Chaos, while characters get access to them off the bat. One will allow them to join Temple Guard units, others will give benefits to specific units, like Magic Resistance or Devastating Charge (Sotek?), while others (like Itzl, or whatever the Cold One Riders are), are already included within their stats.

Razordons and Salamanders become a Dual part plastic Monstrous beasts + handler kits, 2 Monsters and 6 Handlers to a set.

Couatl model - working like a Terrorgheist in that it can be both a mount (rumours are to be available at sub-200 points to allow 2 to be taken for heroes in 2400 games) and a monster, presuming rare.

The Stegadons become special choices as well, with a unit "upgrade" to Ancient stats, and a weapon "upgrade" to didgeridoo blowdarts. Skink Mounts still available IIRC.

Skink Priests gain access to Beasts as well as Heavens. In addition, Skink Priests may become "attendants" to a Slann - basically I read it as a Skink Priest option allowing it access to the same Lore the Slann itself knows. Reading into that suggests that Slann have Loremaster as standard.

The return of the Arcanadon - one thing that every non-lizard player is going to hate, a pokemon venusaur/stegadon crossover which takes in solar power to create a blast of magical light, in the form of a cannonball/stone thrower/flame cannon/breath weapon monster. Although nothing concrete about the presumed dual nature of the kit, it could possibly be a much "wanted" Thunder Lizard capable of making thunderstorms. This is eerily reminiscent of the Luminarks/Hurricanums however, so I am EXTREMELY DOUBTFUL and think is little more than wishlisting. Combined with the Couatl which is also a "thunder/weather" monster, this might be crossed wires, OR wishlisting (I believe the latter, though).

Apparently Nakai will return - an apparently unbreakable "autohealing" monster non-general hero choice.

If all proves to be true, it looks like the possibility of a monster heavy army;

Lord
- Oldblood
-- Carnosaur
- Kroq-Gar
-- Carnosaur
- Mazdamundi
-- Stegadon
- Tenenhauin
-- Stegadon
-- Couatl (?)
- Nakai

Hero
- Skink Priest
-- Couatl
-- Stegadon
-- Terradon
- Skink Chief
-- Stegadon
-- Couatl (?)
-- Terradon
- Tiqtaqto
-- Terradon
- Scar Veteran
-- Carnosaur (?)

Core
- Skink+Kroxigor Cohorts
- Cold One Riders (?/reliant on Kroq Gar)

Special
- Stegadon/Steg Ancient
- Kroxigors
- Terradons

Rare
- Arcanadon
- Thunder Lizard
- Couatl
- Carnosaur Monster/Carnosaur Monstrous Cavalry
- Salamanders
- Razordons

Assuming some points values, a 3K game can get 3 Rare Monsters, 3 Hero+Monsters, and 1-2 Lord+Monsters.

As again, HUGE pinch of salt to be taken.

**RiTides**

GW is crazy with the fantasy monsters lately... 8th ed made them vulnerable, so new ones have Insane stats to counter that... Not sure how they'll ever balance new and old (likely won't).

**The Shadow**

Glad the time's been taken too compile some Fantasy rumours for once.

Still, that said, it all seems a little sketchy to me. There's tons of stuff that seems to be up for release in 'Early 2013' and add in the 40k stuff and you have a very cramped first few months. Despite Kroothawk's post above, I'm still a little confused.

As for new releases, I'm not so worried about High Elves. My army of them is not that extensive and with them being in IoB, I can't seem GW giving them a bad book. They'll try to make it good. Sadly, a lot of emphasis must be placed on the word "try".

As for my Dark Elves, GW can keep away. They're brilliant as it is and unless GW are releasing something mind-bendingly awesome and cool with the new book, I don't really want an update. Of course, such things are inevitable, so I'm glad it, seemingly, won't be done for a while.

Finally, it's great to see Brets and WE in the pipeline!

**Kroothawk**

On Dwarfs:

EarlyBird wrote:From what I've been told expect an extensive revamp of the Dwarfs, not a little update with some new minis.
Long gone are the days of the little guys with beards doing nothing in a corner of your game table !
(...)
I can tell you this : the dwarfs have been deemed boring to play and boring to fight against.

So the idea is to give you a new efficient chassis. Sure you will be able to stay in your corner with your guns and cannons. But you will also have the opportunity to be much more aggressive and quickly occupy the table.

On Wood Elves:

EarlyBird wrote:Here is what I have gathered from "knowledgeable" sources...

-Book for spring 2014
-Chariot is back
-Packmaster with orion hounds or great bear
-A "fairy" unit working a bit like the Banshee
- Stags as mounts for Kurnous cavalry
-Skaw the falconer is back with new mini

Antipathy wrote:Not so much a packmaster, but the new Alter Kindred takes on the form of an animal/nature and becomes some form of monstrous beast/infantry, apparently.

The fluff being they give themselves over to the forest, and take on its aspects, sort of like miniature orions, rather than being a shapeshifter atypical druid.

Playtested versions have seen "proxied" varghulfs with extremely fast movement, so that may mean that they can take on an aerial aspect that gives them fly.

As for the monstrous cav, I am lead to believe that wild riders current iteration is still viable in the rules.

Chariots meanwhile, I have heard absolutely nothing about, other than suggestions of an altar type of unit acting like a mortis engine with its "spirit host", but that has been dismissed by my sources as pure wishlisting.

Harry wrote:I have not heard much about Bretonnians but they are certainly working on both Wood Elves and Dwarves.

Edit: Why does the system add WTF to each quoted name?

**pretre**

Adding these to ongoing.

**kenshin620**

Lizardmen sound interesting for sure...

Sad that brets are still the unknown

**Kroothawk**

Posted by Zakusmaximus over at Warseer:

So my friend went to the GW headquarters North America (Memphis) and talked to one of the guys working there ( not the in the store) . This guy (don’t know the name) stated that he has been able to play test some of the new dwarf," trial rules" and stated the following. The Dwarfs are going to be completely refurbished with the following added to their army lists
1- Monster creature... We know as the mechanical golem thing
2- Dwarf casters of sorts (not sure what this means) I’m hoping not an actual Dwarf Wizard
3- They will get ruins that modify current magical items in the Main rule book i.e. adding first strike to a sword that already gives +2 strength etc.
4- Some sort of Calvary… My fiend mentioned bear, Ram the guy just smiled at him
So anyway hope this helps, I find it funny how many of these same rumors Harry is already mentioned ....he's some sort of witch me thinks

**Red_Zeke**

Assume by ruins that modify, we actually mean "runes that modify"...

I was at first pretty opposed to the idea of a dwarf caster equivalent, but it does make some sense. Other armies with non-traditional magic setups have been changed to the 8th system. It *would* allow the army to more easily scale with any changes to magic between editions. I'd still be a little surprised, but certainly not shocked.

Same goes for access to common items.

**RiTides**

If dwarfs get updated... I will seriously be considering getting some Avatars of War dwarfs next year. Mostly thanks to Red_Zeke getting me interested in them on here

**pretre**

WOC rumors.

Harry on Warseer wrote:
Listen fellas ..... about the book ....... (runs for cover)
That is a little bit funny in that hastings was the first person to tell me, a couple of months ago, that the release was coming without a book.....I shot him down and said I was pretty sure it was the next book.

75hastings69 wrote:
In fact I'm thinking that we will now see a WD official update for the new models....
words for the word god

there may be knights on Juggernaughts and marauders on steeds of slaanesh (rather than new marauder infantry)?

Daemons get more plastic beginning of next year.... along with a new book

**Aerethan**

Soooo, no WoC book?

These WD "updates" are meaningless stop gaps that don't actually accomplish anything.

GW's codex release schedule has been terrible lately.

**pretre**

I don't know, seems that 6th + the WD Update seriously reinvigorated Chaos Daemons.

**Aerethan**

pretre wrote:
I don't know, seems that 6th + the WD Update seriously reinvigorated Chaos Daemons.

Not all of us care about 40k. Perhaps the changes help that game, but this has been a pretty lackluster 2 years for WFB. 5 books in over 2 years, and no book since 6 months ago this year.

**Kroothawk**

pretre wrote:
WOC rumors.

Already posted in a separate thread 4 hours ago, as the main release of next month deservs a thread of its own.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/479652.page

**pretre**

Yeah, I noticed that after the fact.

**Kroothawk**

Small tidbit on daemons:

Stickmonkey wrote:AFAIK Vetock is doing 40k Daemons and WFB Daemons. He is a WFB guy cutting his teeth on 40k. Until the daemons codex release, I wouldnt expect anything else from hom in 40k.