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Requizen wrote:
Fun note: Invocation says that when you summon the Herald, you get 30 points worth of upgrades. Unless there is some sort of restriction, that means that you can get these new Relics on any Herald you Summon via that power.

-Tzeentch: you can afford Paradox or the 3++. You should probably already have Paradox, but the 3++ is pretty decent if you need staying power. He can sit on an objective, save on 3++ rerolling 1s until he gets joined on the following turn by Horrors or something. Disc is still better for mobility, though.

-Nurgle: best options here are either Bell of the end of the World (-1 LD to all enemies global) or Death Head (one time use AP4 Poison 2+ Large Blast). Summoning a dude and suddenly reducing all Leaderships by -1 is great, and can help you Psychic Shriek things further in the Psychic Phase.

-Slaanesh: You almost never summon these guys anyway, which is good because everything here is a weapon as far as I can tell. Hard pass, since summoning a single, solo T3 model and hoping it gets into Assault is laughable.

-Khorne: Much of the same. You can summon one with the 3+ armor with Adamantium Will and hope it survives a bit longer, but you will rarely do this.


So these are pretty decent if you summon Nurgle or Tzeentch Heralds. Pop a HoNurgle into cover, global -1L. Or summon him right in front of a unit of dudes and Poison them on 2+.

Drop a HoTzeentch onto an objective that you're not holding, give him 3++, watch the opponent's frustration. Bonus if you get him Cursed Earth as well.

Actually I regularly summon a mounted Herald of Slaanesh. She can run 6+D6 and form a very functional distraction, being just nasty enough to make a nusciance of herself if she's ignored.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 son_of_osiris wrote:
So do we still not know what the soul grinder formation does? It's pretty obvious it's 3 or possibly more grinders.

No. Unfortunately the poster who had the early copy hasn't been back since

PM him maybe?

But are the "new relics" part of our existing reward limits or in additions to them? Plus someone has to take the Grigmore and you only have one Herald in the formation so there goes their reward limit. Also I can't think of any reason to take a portaglyph in this formation. It's not like you'll be running short of lesser daemons.

Shame they didn't make the heralds, elites, troops, and fast attack all in one formation. That Slaanesh Apocalypse Formation with 6 units of either daemonettes or seekers, with assault from deep strike and 4+ rending would have been amazing in regular 40K.

 Sersi wrote:
But are the "new relics" part of our existing reward limits or in additions to them? Plus someone has to take the Grigmore and you only have one Herald in the formation so there goes their reward limit. Also I can't think of any reason to take a portaglyph in this formation. It's not like you'll be running short of lesser daemons.

Shame they didn't make the heralds, elites, troops, and fast attack all in one formation. That Slaanesh Apocalypse Formation with 6 units of either daemonettes or seekers, with assault from deep strike and 4+ rending would have been amazing in regular 40K.

Iuchiban said that any model that can take rewards can take one of the new Relics. One per model, that is. It doesn't prevent you from taking Rewards or Gifts.

 Sersi wrote:
But are the "new relics" part of our existing reward limits or in additions to them? Plus someone has to take the Grigmore and you only have one Herald in the formation so there goes their reward limit. Also I can't think of any reason to take a portaglyph in this formation. It's not like you'll be running short of lesser daemons.

Shame they didn't make the heralds, elites, troops, and fast attack all in one formation. That Slaanesh Apocalypse Formation with 6 units of either daemonettes or seekers, with assault from deep strike and 4+ rending would have been amazing in regular 40K.

All of the relics have their own point costs so its clear that aren't apart of the rewards system

Do we know if the parodox will work on the single model or a bubble effect?

And how many Warp charges are the new powers? I have a feeling the D one will be too many to be worth using in a lot of cases.

It's warp charge 9, cause it's tzeentch's special fluffy sacred power! Also, you need 9 psyker units to cast it, and you're only allowed to roll 9 dice!

Furthermore, each unit that contributed to the attack has to take a leadership test with a -9 modifier or suffer a perils of the warp roll with a -9 modifier! Any psykers who survive will be unable to act for the next 9 turns and have all stats reduced by 9 for the remainder of the game. Chaos is fickle!

On a serious note I wholeheartedly expect it will be warp charge 3. At this point the exact wording and effect of paradox is unknown to us.

 vercingatorix wrote:
Do we know if the parodox will work on the single model or a bubble effect?

Huh? What are you asking?

 CrownAxe wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
Do we know if the parodox will work on the single model or a bubble effect?

Huh? What are you asking?

If fateweaver is on the other side of the board and casts a power, can I use my once a turn to flip the dice.

It doesn't sound like we have specifics so far. Just gotta wait and see!

 vercingatorix wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
Do we know if the parodox will work on the single model or a bubble effect?

Huh? What are you asking?

If fateweaver is on the other side of the board and casts a power, can I use my once a turn to flip the dice.

It doesn't sound like we have specifics so far. Just gotta wait and see!

I highly doubt the relic will affect anyone other then the wielder

Am I the only one reading the formation with the screamers as the burning chariots gaining slash attacks, but it has warpflame?
It seems that people think screamer slash attacks are gaining warpflame but I don't think that's the case... To me, it reads that the screamer slashes stay the same, but chariots gain slash (but with warpflame).

 CrownAxe wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
Do we know if the parodox will work on the single model or a bubble effect?

Huh? What are you asking?

If fateweaver is on the other side of the board and casts a power, can I use my once a turn to flip the dice.

It doesn't sound like we have specifics so far. Just gotta wait and see!

I highly doubt the relic will affect anyone other then the wielder

Could be the unit as well. So now the screamer star can have a paradox and know all the tzeentch powers. Might actually be dangerous again!

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
Am I the only one reading the formation with the screamers as the burning chariots gaining slash attacks, but it has warpflame?
It seems that people think screamer slash attacks are gaining warpflame but I don't think that's the case... To me, it reads that the screamer slashes stay the same, but chariots gain slash (but with warpflame).

The Formation special rules for the Burning Skyhost are:
* Warpflame
* Harbinger of Tzeentch (the Loci of the Herald affects all units from the Formation within 12")
* Trail of Transmuting Flame - If a Burning Chariot Turbo-boosts, pick 1 enemy unit it moved over. That unit takes D6 S5 AP4 hits with Soul Blaze and Warpflame. In addition, add 1 to the number of Slash Attacks Screamers from this Formation make, and resolve all the Slash attacks with the Soul Blaze and Warpflame rules.


What this actually means is that now every unsaved wound caused by an attack from a model in this formation (be it Melee, Shooting, Psychic etc) causes Warpflame, because Warpflame is a rule that is added to the entire formation...

FNP for everyone!

skarsol wrote:
FNP for everyone!

Tempted to name my Tzeentch Herald Oprah now tbh.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
I've spent most of the day trying to think of a way to use exalted flamers effectively.

I have none. They seem useless. Is there any way at all to give them relentless?

Put them on a chariot or use them in Age of Sigmar.
Maybe put one in a defensive position? They are pretty cheap.

 DarkBlack wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
I've spent most of the day trying to think of a way to use exalted flamers effectively.

I have none. They seem useless. Is there any way at all to give them relentless?

Put them on a chariot or use them in Age of Sigmar.
Maybe put one in a defensive position? They are pretty cheap.

Yeah the options aren't great.
Put one in a unit of horrors and stick them in a ruin?
Deep strike solo suicide units?
Accept them as tax to make the Warpflame host cheaper?

I picked up my data-cards this arvo - no campaign book for me since a mate is already getting it. Didn't get a look at the Warlord traits in the book yet, but apparently there is a Tzeentch one that lets you harness on a 3+ (not sure whether that was on the Warlord or army, assuming Warlord only) and another Tzeentch one that turns your Warlord into a ML1 Psyker or adds +1 to your Mastery Level - which could be funny on a Khorne Demon Prince in the DP Formation lol?

Discipline of Plague:
Primaris - Stream of Corruption. Unchanged
1 - Debilitating Distension: WC1. Malediction on enemy unit within 24". Target cannot run, sweeping advance or overwatch.
2 - Plague Wind: Unchanged.
3 - Miasma of Pestilence: Unchanged.
4 - Rancid Visitations: Unchanged.
5 - Final Decomposition: WC2. Focussed Witchfire, Range 12", S*, AP2, Assault 1, Ignores Cover, Instant Death, Internal Liquefaction (*Do not roll To Wound. Instead, roll a D6 - if the result is higher than the number of Wounds the target has remaining, it suffers 1 Wound with the profile above.) Does not affect vehicles.
6 - Putrescent Vitality: WC1-3. Blessing that targets a single Demon of Nurgle unit within 24". Choose whether it is WC1, 2 or 3 each time it is cast. Whilst in effect, add +1 Toughness to all models for each point of warp charge it cost to cast.

Discipline of Change
Primaris - Flickering Fire of Tzeentch: Unchanged, other than to reword it to make it clear you choose the WC cost before you cast.
1 - Tzeentch's Firestorm: Unchanged.
2 - Bolt of Change: Unchanged
3 - Tzeentch's Warpflare: WC1. Nova, Range 9", S D6, AP4, Assault 2D6, Ignores Cover, Warpflame.
4 - Boon of Flame: WC2 or 3, decide before rolling. Conjuration with range of 12". If used at WC2, conjure 1 Exalted Flamer. If used at WC3 conjure either a unit of 3 Flamers or 1 Burning Chariot.
5 - Infernal Gateway: Unchanged.
6 - Prismatic Gaze: WC3. Witchfire, Range 18", Strength D, AP1, Assault 1.

Discipline of Excess
Primaris - Lash of Slaanesh. Unchanged.
1 - Acquiescence. Unchanged, other than to clarify that the Initiative penalty is to a minimum of 1.
2 - Pavane of Slaanesh: Unchanged.
3 - Maniacal Fervour: WC1. Blessing that targets a friendly unit within 24". Unit suffers D6 S3 AP- hits, but gains Furious Charge, Rage and Zealot.
4 - Phantasmagoria: WC1. Malediction on enemy unit within 18". Each time the unit wishes to Move, cast Psychic Powers, Run, Shoot, Charge, Attack in the Fight Subphase, Sweeping Advance, Consolidate or Overwatch it must first pass a Leadership test. If failed, cannot perform that action but may perform an alternative action in that phase, assuming it passes another Leadership Test.
5 - Slicing Shards: WC2. Witchfire, Range 24", S4, AP4, Assault 1, Large Blast, Soul Flay (After resolving the attack, any units that are under the blast marker must pass a Ld check or suffer a further D6 S4 AP4 hits).
6 - Cacophonic Choir: Unchanged.


And the Tactical Objectives if anyone is interested:

11 - Delight in Despair: 1 VP if an enemy failed a Fear or Morale test in Assault Phase. If it was against a Slaanesh Demon Unit, score 2 VP instead.

12 - The Cycle of Life: 1 VP if an enemy unit was destroyed. It was by a Nurgle Demon unit, score 2 VP instead.

13 - Touched by the Warp: 1 VP if at least one friendly model succeeded to manifest a Psychic Power. If it was by a Tzeentch Demon model, score 2 VP instead.

14 - The Glory of Khorne: 1 VP if a character killed an enemy in a Challenge. If it was a Khorne Demon Character, 2 VP instead.

15 - The Dominion of Chaos: D3 VP if you control more objectives than your opponent.

16 - The Great Game: Roll a dice at the end of each turn after generating this objective. Score that many VP at the end of your turn if you control the number of objectives equal to the number you rolled that turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and the Soul Grinder formation as was described to me is 3 Grinders of any configuration; when 1 Grinder kills an enemy model, the other 2 Grinders get +1 To Hit and To Wound for the rest of the phase.

Thanks for the info goon. Ok for the grinder formation if the effect isn't cumulative its crap. The D power is 3 WC as expected. That won't be a problem though. I will still use it as there is nothing else better. Still too much random power for us in the codex. Nurgle power targets only nurgle units. meh. Focused witch fire sounds a bit interesting. But still playing mobile nurgle casters isn't a hype. Ok my take for the decurion is nurglings for basic and seekers/chariots for aux.

Mucking around on BattleScribe at the 1500 point mark (the level my local tourney plays) and I've come up with two decent sounding, if boring, Nurgle lists using the new formations.

List 1 which is the Daemonic Incursion detachment with a Tally Band and Rot-whatever formations to satisfy the minimims for Daemonic Incursion:

Herald of Nurgle on Palanquin, (-1 global leadership to enemies one), greater reward for etherblade, locus of Fecundity
Herald of Nurgle, Grotti the nurgling (-1 enemy toughness nearby), greater reward for etherblade, locus of fecundity

7 x 1 Beast of Nurgle set up to countercharge on plaguebearer flanks

3 x 20 Plaguebearers

4 x 10 Plaguebearers

List 2 is just the Tally Band formation. I think this one is even better.
Herald of Nurgle on Palanquin, (-1 global leadership to enemies bell), greater reward for etherblade, locus of fecundity

7 x 20 Plaguebearers, each with a Plagueridden with lesser reward for etherblade.

I really think that as boring and lame as List 2 is, it would be extremely rubbish to fight against. It would drown things in close combat, frequently lowering enemy toughness and strength and its immune to overwatch which in my experience with being overwatched to shreds from some great luck from my enemy, is amazing and shouldnt be underestimated. Thoughts?

From the GW blog





http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/What's-New-Today-from-the-White-Dwarf-Team/2016/02/10/Chaos-reigns

If you squint at the first image you can see the Bloodthirster of Insenate Rage entry WITH options. Three lines, so my guess is rewards.

 CleverAntics wrote:
If you squint at the first image you can see the Bloodthirster of Insenate Rage entry WITH options. Three lines, so my guess is rewards.

Yes, they're the same as the White Dwarf dataslates from when the new Bloodthirster model came out.

 CleverAntics wrote:
If you squint at the first image you can see the Bloodthirster of Insenate Rage entry WITH options. Three lines, so my guess is rewards.

We've had the 'Thirsters posted earlier in the thread, they do indeed get rewards.

Thats something we already knew. whats more important is the wording of the relics.

Dorash wrote:
Mucking around on BattleScribe at the 1500 point mark (the level my local tourney plays) and I've come up with two decent sounding, if boring, Nurgle lists using the new formations.

List 1 which is the Daemonic Incursion detachment with a Tally Band and Rot-whatever formations to satisfy the minimims for Daemonic Incursion:

Herald of Nurgle on Palanquin, (-1 global leadership to enemies one), greater reward for etherblade, locus of Fecundity
Herald of Nurgle, Grotti the nurgling (-1 enemy toughness nearby), greater reward for etherblade, locus of fecundity

7 x 1 Beast of Nurgle set up to countercharge on plaguebearer flanks

3 x 20 Plaguebearers

4 x 10 Plaguebearers

List 2 is just the Tally Band formation. I think this one is even better.
Herald of Nurgle on Palanquin, (-1 global leadership to enemies bell), greater reward for etherblade, locus of fecundity

7 x 20 Plaguebearers, each with a Plagueridden with lesser reward for etherblade.

I really think that as boring and lame as List 2 is, it would be extremely rubbish to fight against. It would drown things in close combat, frequently lowering enemy toughness and strength and its immune to overwatch which in my experience with being overwatched to shreds from some great luck from my enemy, is amazing and shouldnt be underestimated. Thoughts?

IMO, far too slow. Most armies will be able to rip you to shreds as you walk 6" towards them every turn.
If you want to do something like that... give each unit a banner and instrument. Start 1-2 on the board in ruins/out of sight, and deep strike everything else that you can as close to the enemy as possible on your next turn. Otherwise you'll NEVER catch the enemy.




RE psychic powers. So the new powers are all ok, except...
- As you can only take 1-2 from the list because Daemons, its going to be hard to get the good spells.
- THere are better / more reliable lores to be rolling on anyway (Telepathy, Divination and Biomancy)

Summoning in a Chariot sounds hilarious.
Fateweaver is much pleased. Summoning in chariots. Strength D shots from a FMC. OMG Air to air combat with Strength D shooting yes please!!

Something I'll try is using deepstrike exalted flamers to grab backline objectives.

50 points is plenty cheap and the daemon incursion special rule allows me to control the objective even after the flamer gets shot down.
It'll force my opponent to slog a unit back in order to capture the objective again. Else I'm going to score some very easy objectives.

They're also good to meet the requirements for the formation since 3 flamers means you only need 6 more units instead of 9.

Finally, it's a nice distraction carnifex to boot! If they leave them alive, they will cause some dmg.

Those Nurgle powers look awesome. Extra Toughness will benefit so many units. even just +1 to prevent ID on things like Plague Drones.

 CleverAntics wrote:
If you squint at the first image you can see the Bloodthirster of Insenate Rage entry WITH options. Three lines, so my guess is rewards.

The CD dataslates for the bloodthirsters already had options

 GoonBandito wrote:


Discipline of Excess
Primaris - Lash of Slaanesh. Unchanged.
1 - Acquiescence. Unchanged, other than to clarify that the Initiative penalty is to a minimum of 1.
2 - Pavane of Slaanesh: Unchanged.
3 - Maniacal Fervour: WC1. Blessing that targets a friendly unit within 24". Unit suffers D6 S3 AP- hits, but gains Furious Charge, Rage and Zealot.
4 - Phantasmagoria: WC1. Malediction on enemy unit within 18". Each time the unit wishes to Move, cast Psychic Powers, Run, Shoot, Charge, Attack in the Fight Subphase, Sweeping Advance, Consolidate or Overwatch it must first pass a Leadership test. If failed, cannot perform that action but may perform an alternative action in that phase, assuming it passes another Leadership Test.
5 - Slicing Shards: WC2. Witchfire, Range 24", S4, AP4, Assault 1, Large Blast, Soul Flay (After resolving the attack, any units that are under the blast marker must pass a Ld check or suffer a further D6 S4 AP4 hits).
6 - Cacophonic Choir: Unchanged.


And the Tactical Objectives if anyone is interested:

11 - Delight in Despair: 1 VP if an enemy failed a Fear or Morale test in Assault Phase. If it was against a Slaanesh Demon Unit, score 2 VP instead.

12 - The Cycle of Life: 1 VP if an enemy unit was destroyed. It was by a Nurgle Demon unit, score 2 VP instead.

13 - Touched by the Warp: 1 VP if at least one friendly model succeeded to manifest a Psychic Power. If it was by a Tzeentch Demon model, score 2 VP instead.

14 - The Glory of Khorne: 1 VP if a character killed an enemy in a Challenge. If it was a Khorne Demon Character, 2 VP instead.

15 - The Dominion of Chaos: D3 VP if you control more objectives than your opponent.

16 - The Great Game: Roll a dice at the end of each turn after generating this objective. Score that many VP at the end of your turn if you control the number of objectives equal to the number you rolled that turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and the Soul Grinder formation as was described to me is 3 Grinders of any configuration; when 1 Grinder kills an enemy model, the other 2 Grinders get +1 To Hit and To Wound for the rest of the phase.

Hmmm.... Those Slaanesh Powers aren't to bad, not as good as Telepathy though. They're still LD based with no way to reduce LD. Bonus points to GW for simply ripping off their Old 7-8 ed WF Slaanesh Magic lore, but leaving out the LD rape powers and artifacts. I mean come on Eldar have a -3 LD maldiction power.

Phantasmagoria has some potential. Great antideathstar power. If nurgle relic gives -1 ld it can be powerful. And for 1 WC hell yes.
Do you think plague drones and palanquin heralds will work? I can see some great tactic there. Though movement will be a problem. New nurgle power will be great for this unit.