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Hey All,

Well, I finally sacrificed my wallet to the gods of 40k and ordered a Contemptor Dreadnought from Forge World.

I've got a variety of weapon options coming, but wanted to know what people considered optimal load out for a Contemptor Mortis and when and where to use him.

I love the twin Kheres Assault Cannon CML build, but arguments can be made for the twin Autocannon build as well.

What are your guys thoughts?

My brother uses the twin kheres assault cannon loadout, and its absolutely brilliant. Not personally seen the autocannon one, but 12 shots at str6 with rending or 4 shots with s7 is a no brainer choice imo

 Instinctual wrote:
Hey All,

Well, I finally sacrificed my wallet to the gods of 40k and ordered a Contemptor Dreadnought from Forge World.

I've got a variety of weapon options coming, but wanted to know what people considered optimal load out for a Contemptor Mortis and when and where to use him.

I love the twin Kheres Assault Cannon CML build, but arguments can be made for the twin Autocannon build as well.

What are your guys thoughts?

the assault cannons are the only reason you really want to take them. you dont want an overpriced rifleman dread.

I'd tend to agree Exergy, however the range of the Assault cannons are rather short.

I tend to run a drop pod heavy army and have had a couple of debates on the best way to deploy him

I don't tend to have much on the board in the way of armor on turn one and fear he'll be killed by forcused fire if he starts on my side, and that He'll wind up out of range of most flyers.

I'm going to try drop podding him with my sternguard (2 full combi-squads w/ pedro) but might try walking him with my tacticals as well.

Will have to see how it goes once he arrives

I think you generally wander it into the middle and shoot up with it, if not up, you can shoot it at something else with light / medium AV. I guess it also depends on the range of the guns you give it.

It's probably a great boon to C:SM lists to help with the mediocre anti air.

What about lascannons and CML?

Lucre: The Kheres Assault cannons have a 24" range, the Autocannons have 36", and of course the Lascannons have 48"

So moving to Midfield would seem mandatory for the Kheres, just wonder if its best to walk him there or Pod him in. With the pod he arrives on the1st turn, so he won't be at any disadvantage for shooting flyers (they come in on turn 2 at the earliest) and then he most likely wont need to move for the rest of the game. If he walks to midfield it will take him a few rounds to arive, and every round he moves he loses skyfire and interceptor. He would be a great asset vs infiltrators and outflankers if kept in the backfield, though it might be a bit of overkill and a tad bit wastefull

Tiger9: Not a bad option, it just limits the number of shots

Kheres give 12 S6 rending shots, The autocannons give you 4 TL S7 shots, the Lascannons give you 2 TL S9. Of course all get the 2 S8 Missile shots with the CML upgrade.

I can't imagine many fliers could survive the lascannon salvo, but against any kind of non TEQ infantry its crap as it simply has too few shots. Autocannons are a bit of a middle ground, while Kheres is more of a light armor (and fliers) and infantry option.

I'll be getting the parts for the Laz and Kheres, and will proxy the autos, but am really currious to see which option winds up working out best

 Instinctual wrote:
Lucre: The Kheres Assault cannons have a 24" range, the Autocannons have 36", and of course the Lascannons have 48"

So moving to Midfield would seem mandatory for the Kheres, just wonder if its best to walk him there or Pod him in. With the pod he arrives on the1st turn, so he won't be at any disadvantage for shooting flyers (they come in on turn 2 at the earliest) and then he most likely wont need to move for the rest of the game. If he walks to midfield it will take him a few rounds to arive, and every round he moves he loses skyfire and interceptor. He would be a great asset vs infiltrators and outflankers if kept in the backfield, though it might be a bit of overkill and a tad bit wastefull

Tiger9: Not a bad option, it just limits the number of shots

Kheres give 12 S6 rending shots, The autocannons give you 4 TL S7 shots, the Lascannons give you 2 TL S9. Of course all get the 2 S8 Missile shots with the CML upgrade.

I can't imagine many fliers could survive the lascannon salvo, but against any kind of non TEQ infantry its crap as it simply has too few shots. Autocannons are a bit of a middle ground, while Kheres is more of a light armor (and fliers) and infantry option.

I'll be getting the parts for the Laz and Kheres, and will proxy the autos, but am really currious to see which option winds up working out best

I believe the autocannons are 48" range, but at that point it is just a killable quad gun.

the lascannons are nice, but they alone wont kill a flyer. Consider that they are not guarenteed to hit, then against an AV12 flyer like the stormraven, helturkey, or vendetta you need a 3 to glance and a 4 to pen. After hitting that is slightly less than 1 pen, which means that you have less than a 33% chance of blowing them up. Throw in a 5++ and you have even more problems. Throwing in the missile launchers changes things greatly though. But that is very expensive.

Exergy: I agree, expensive but decently survivable. With the Lascannon / CML combo I believe he comes in at 215pts (sorry, my IA book is still in the mail) which isn't too bad for Front AV 13, a BS of 5, and a 5++ invulnerable to shooting. Not a bad package all said

I plan on pairing him with Telion manning a quadgun for my AA support.

Besides the Assault Cannons, anyone think that 2 BS5 Multi Melta's is worth thinking (I also believe they are the cheap option)?

Phantommaster: I'd imagine they'd be great for drop podding, But you'd have to have something to screen or protect him from CC threats, same as the Kheres. Greater pen chance, but alot less shots. Plus, since you need the cc screen for the Mortis anyway, I use Sternguard with combi's, and I can load them up with Melta on the cheap (well, in relation to the Contemptor anyway)

I'd probably be more likely to equip him with MM, CML and power claw if I was going to go that way though, as he could at least deal out the pain if he gets stuck in CC that way. I believe he can upgrade the stormbolter in the fist to a plasmagun or graviton gun (no idea on the stats for that) which may help as additional Anti-armour.

Plus, from the Lucius Pattern Dread Pod he can assault the turn he arrives

see this thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/490789.page

TLR:

Always go kheres. Las are nice, but kheres means ur both a wound generator and have about the same AP2 power/anti flyer power.

Consider the expected value of hits/wounds below:

Lascannons - more or less 2 hits and 2 ap2 wounds against MEQ/TEQ, and what, 1.6 glances or 1.3 pens against av11/av12 flyers?

Kheres - 10 hits, 8.3 wounds against mew/teq, 1.6 rending ap2 (and with 6 more wounds they will fail another...) wounds sooothat also means 1.6 pens AND 1.6 glances against av11/av12 flyers.


So the Kheres are better against flyers, about even or better against TEQ, way better against MEQ but worse against av13/av14 ish (depends on that d3 roll really). But shorter range

Also dont get a mortis and telion, get a mortis and put it + a marine on the icarus. It can fire it if out of range of kheres, and marine can fire it otherwise.

The CML are good too, a good addition, but they make him expensive and for the same cost you ge ta hyperios, which is less reliable buuut more durable spreading of firepower. It's a toss up, so get both and experiment.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Excuse me that.s 1.6 pens and 1.6 glances against av11, only 1.6 pens against av12.

(and technically 1.6 glances against av13 which is better than the lascannons, though they have better pen odds)

Largo39: Great Points man, will have to try putting him on the Icarus, that should be fun, especially in lower point games

 Instinctual wrote:
Largo39: Great Points man, will have to try putting him on the Icarus, that should be fun, especially in lower point games

Why would you ever put a Contemptor on the fortification gun when a Contemptor's CML still gets to fire when the ACs are out of range? An extra point of BS on the lascannon isn't worth giving up two missile shots, put a random tactical marine on the gun and save your Contemptor for more important things.

Uhhhh because firing a emplaced gun only replaces ONE of your shooting with your normal weapons, not all of them.

So you can forgo shooting one of your (out of range) kheres guns to shoot the icarus AND also shoot off your CML as well

If I've read correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you can fire the Icarus as an intercept but still fire your normal weapons during the shooting phase.

For instance, I've seen telion use the emplacement for intercept work and then fire his stalker pattern during the shooting phase.

Seems correct by my reading of the rules, but god knows I've been wrong before

You are correct, the weapon with interceptor cannot be fired the next turn, but he can still fire his regular weapon as normal.


Note that then for the contemptor if he fires his kheres/CML in intercept then he, by the same rule, also cannot fir them the next turn as well.


This telion on an icarus is quite good, as he can snipe whatever he wants.... it's just I dont run scouts anymore because they tend to dissapoint annnd id rather havet hose 50 points in a MM attack bike instead.

The thing that everyone seems to overlook about the assault cannons is that with the Mortis having to remain stationary to gain skyfire/intercept, the 24" range makes him pretty useless when it comes to intercepting flyers. If you're taking one mainly for air defense, autocannons are a better choice. I'm also pretty sure the contemptor dreads don't have access to drop pods unless there has been an FAQ I'm not aware of.

 Instinctual wrote:
Exergy: I agree, expensive but decently survivable. With the Lascannon / CML combo I believe he comes in at 215pts (sorry, my IA book is still in the mail) which isn't too bad for Front AV 13, a BS of 5, and a 5++ invulnerable to shooting. Not a bad package all said

I plan on pairing him with Telion manning a quadgun for my AA support.

Try 240. PLus i have and use a KAC/CML Mortis and the fun thing aboutm him is everyone hates him so he absorbs shots while the rest of the army works.

Nate668:

we really need to merge these 2 threads together, as they are just repeating the same arguments. But anyways, my response from the other thread baout the same 24 inch "issue"


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/490789.page



Ah yes, you are correct in that his range is relativly short. However... what does that mean

First if he is centrally located within an ADL then for the flyer to avoid him they're also moving only 18 inches which means only a 5+ jink if they have to dodge, a plus.

Second: the flyer being out o fthat 24 inch bubble ( also puts them out of range of their most deadly weaponry as well.

For example:

Asscannon on a stormtalon
MM on stormravens (and all their psy-bolters)
Baleflamer on a hell-drake
The deathray on a doomscythe (and I believe the gun on the nightscythe as well is only 24).

Thus he may not get a shot, but he's still a damn good deterrent at that which wrecks him best (melta) and that which wrecks all our marines (flamer/deathray/etc). So he's still doing his job

Seconly.. if he's in an ADL he still gets that 4+ cover AND gets to man an icarus lascannon, which gives him infinite range. Yes I go with the icarus in this case instead of the quad gun because its 15 points cheaper and far more deadly in his BS 5 hands (although the quadgun in the end still has like a 3% better chance of one shotting a flyer or dealing HPs, it's not worth the 15 points and he can take out anything on the ground with it too a LOT better).

Remember, any MODEL in BTB can use the gun (instead of one of their own shots), so if they are out of range? use the icarus. If they are i nrange? have a marine in BTB with it as well and have the mortis use his kheres and the marine shoot off the icarus.

Too bad we cant merge them, I've been jumping back and forth reading it all