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Daemon Army
I brought models that I had at least partially painted. I did not want to proxy anything if I could avoid it. This was my list.
Fateweaver
20 Letters w/character banner of blood
20 Horrors w/character
20 Plaugebearers
Tzeentch Herald w/lvl 2 psyker, disk, Loci of Counjuration
Nurgle Herald w/plaequin, Exaulted gift
Soul Grinder
Soul Grinder
Seeker Cavacle
11 daemonettes
7 Flamers
3 Screamers
The list was varied, with a little bit of everything. I wanted to try out a lot of different models, and this gave me the opportunity to do so.


IG Army
My friend Ian brought the following
Daemon Prince w/wings + black mace
CCS w/4 melta guns + chimera
IG Vets w/3 melta guns + chimera
IG Vets w/3 melta guns + chimera
10 Cultists
3 Vendettas
3 Lemun Russ Punishers w/HB Sponsons
My inital thoughts were. "Wow, hes going to be throwing 99 STR 5/6 shots at my T3 units per turn. This will be a recreation of WW1.


PreGame
The mission we rolled 'crusade'. There were 3 objectives. Ian placed the first one on his side. I placed my first one in a nice piece of area terrain. Ian placed the third in the middle of the board.

For my gift, I took the default even without rolling. I was going for the grimorie.
Fateweaver got fire shield, iron arm, misfortune, and terrorify for his spells.






IG Turn One
Ian moved his Russ' forward a little bit and took shots on the daemonette squad, killing 8 of them. He shot at the screamers, killing all 3. He shot at the seeker chariots blowing up one. He then shot at the seeker chariots with all 3 of his chimeras and knocked off 1 hull point.

Ian rushed his daemon prince up the side of the board. It looked like he was going to eat some horrors for lunch.



Daemon Turn One
I used the grimoire on Fateweaver, increasing his save to a 2++. Since Tzeentch daemons reroll 1's for failed saves, he had a 35/36 chance of succeeding on his saves. This made fateweaver nearly invulnerable.

The soul grinders, chariots, and daemonettes all rushed forward to his line, re-enacting world war 1 perfectly.

The plague bearers nestled themselves in some nice area terrain on top of the objective. The herald made sure to keep fatweaver in sight.

The Warp Storm Result was a 2! I used fateweavers ability to reroll the chart, and the result turned out to be a 5. This had no effect on the game.

Fateweaver cast Iron Arm on himself, and Fire Shield on the bloodletters. Fateweaver shot at the daemon prince with Flickering Fire, causing 2 wounds and grounding it.


The horrors moved up. The herald cast prescience on the squad, and they shot the crap out of the daemon prince killing it. The horrors got 17 shots off, and the herald got 9 shots off that turn.



IG Turn Two
All 3 of Ian's vendettas came on the board that turn. He shot the crap out of my 2 soul grinders. With 9 las cannons he managed to take off 1 hull point off each one. That was an extremely underwhemling round of shooting.


His cultists came on the board. Ian put them in the corner, but they never actually did anything the game. They never made it to the objective to even control it.

Ian moved one of his punishers forward and it got stuck in the ruins. Since this was close to a soul grinder, it was bad news for that punisher.

Ian shot up some of the flamers with another punisher, killing a few of them. I got a little lucky on my saves that round.

Ian shot the remaining daemonettes with chimeras, killing them. Ian shot up the seeker chariots, killing them.




Daemon Turn Two
I used the grimoire on fateweaver successfully. I used Iron Arm on Fateweaver, and Fire Shield on the bloodletters.


My horrors moved up and took a few pot shots at the vendetta, not having much effect.


My flamers moved into some cover to get some terrain bonus in case they were shot to bits. In hindsight I should have moved them the other direction.

My bloodletters moved up and ran behind some ruins. Their job was to threaten the middle objective for the rest of the game.


The warp storm table result was a 7. I used fateweavers ability to pick up the 1 and re-rolled it, getting an 11! Sadly, there were no psykers on the board to spawn into heralds.

In the shooting attack, I used fatweaver to use a beam attack across all 3 vendettas. I rolled a STR 10 beam. One vendetta got its 'deny the witch' roll, and the other 2 succesfully evaded. Ian's dice were hot.

My soulgrinder successfully assaulted the punisher stuck in the ruins. It ripped the punisher to bits. The other soulgrinder failed its charge of 9".


IG Turn Three
All 3 Vendettas flew overhead. They were all shaken/jinked anyway so he just moved them to a spot on the board where he could rotate and take pot shots at me.


He moved up one squad of melta vets and took a shot at the soulgrinder that failed its charge, immobolizing it. His CCS squad destroyed the other soul grinder with 4 melta guns.


He then opened up into bloodletters. Even with a 4+ save, I completely failed on my saves, and lost 11 of them. This other punisher he shot at fateweaver, which was completely ineffective.


Daemon Turn Three
Fateweaver again got the effects of the grimoire. He also cast Iron Arm on himself, boosting his toughness to 8 this round. He vector striked the chimera, causing 2 penetrating hits but failing to destroy it.


My bloodletters moved behind the ruins in a place to where they could capture/contest the objective. The horrors moved up the board. I placed them 24" from the chimera.

The flamers moved up to be in range of any IG that came out of the chimera that fateweaver vector struck. I was working on killing his troops.

During the Warp Storm, I rolled a 12. This caused 11 daemonettes to deep strike. I put them in the middle of the board and rushed them forward.

During the shooting phase, fateweaver cast another beam across 3 chimeras, exploding one of them.
I used the horrors to blow up the chimera. AV 10 with 1 hull point left does not last long against 6d6 STR 6. shots


When the vet squad came out of the chimera, I used the flamers to flame them up. They fell back.


IG Turn Four
Ian flew one of his vendettas off the board and rotated the other 2 around to take pot shots at fatewaver.


This turn, Ian said "I will erase you fateweaver!" He shot both vendettas into fateweaver, grounding him. He then shot his CCS and remaining melta vet squad into fateweaver. He shot one punisher into fateweaver. After all that shooting, he managed to knock off 1 wound. With a T7 and 35/36 chance of saving, Fateweaver is nearly invulnerable.


His other punisher fired into the flamers, killing all of them. Yes, I again managed to fail 8 5++ saves in a row. My 5++ saves were abysmal this game.



Daemon Turn Four
I was pretty confident at this point with my fateweaver. I plan was to use him to squat on the objective and just cause problems for him.

Fateweaver again made his grimoire. He has a perils when he tried to buff the remaining daemonettes with fire shield. He cast Iron Arm on himself again.


On the warp storm table I rolled another 7, which I picked up the 1 and rolled it again. We got another 11! I wish he brought some psykers.

Fateweaver peril'ed himself again when he tried to shoot at the vet squad. Thats a total of 3 wounds he had, 2 of which he put on himself. Fateweaver then assaulted the vet squad he shot at, and managed to kill 1. The vets could not harm fateweaver, and they failed their break test. Fateweaver failed to sweep them (with his mighty init of 2!) and they fell back. They failed their rally test and fell off the board. "Did you see bid bird?! He ate Rodger man! Lets get out of here!"



IG Turn Five
One punisher took aim on the daemonettes and killed 8 of them.


The other punisher took aim on the bloodletters. I went to ground with them, making most of my saves.


His rolling reserves vendetta came onto the board and blew up the remaining soul grinder, killing 1 daemonette in the blast. There were only 2 left from the free squad.


His remaining guys took some pot shots at fateweaver, but to no effect.


Daemon Turn Five
This turn, even with a reroll, Fatweaver failed his grimoire test. I moved fateweaver to the side of the board limiting his incoming fire. I used his beam attack to hit two vendettas, and failed to penetrate armor with either one.

On the warp storm table, I rolled a 10, letting me get a +1 to all invuln saves. Good! Fateweaver had a 3++, he had a decent chance of living, if he could survive 9 LC shots. He had 2 wounds left, and rerolled 1s on saves. Odds were pretty good I could keep my warlord alive.

My remaining two daemonettes assaulted his IG squad. They managed to kill one of them, and I managed to kill one IG for a drawn combat.

I spread my horrors out so they grabbed the middle objective. When we rolled to see if the game ended, we discovered that it was going to run for another turn!


IG Turn Six
Ian managed to kill fateweaver. The first vendetta shot caused three wounds. I rolled two 2s! I used his ability to reroll any one dice, reducing him to 1 failed save. The next vendetta did 3 wounds, and I rolled another 2.

Ian brought his punishers to bear on the horrors, both of them. He managed to wipe out 14 of the horrors.



Daemon Turn Six
I moved up my bloodletters to secure the middle objective.


I detached my herald from the horrors and moved him into 3" of the last objective contesting it. Being able to rush forward 36" a turn is huge for late game contesting.

The warp storm effect was a 5 but it failed to impact any units.

The game ended on turn 6, leaving me with 2 objectives and Ian with one contested objective.


Game Summary
I played a bad army vs a bad matchup. It should have been a complete clobberfest, but the game actually turned out closer than I thought it would be. Like all good games, it swung back and forth and it looked like it could go either way. The game ended up being a win for me if it ended on turn 5 or 6, and a win for Ian if it ended on turn 7.

Ian got 'slay the warlord', 'first blood' and 'linebreaker'. I got 'linebreaker'. Ian got tons of KP off me, and I managed to only get a few off him.


Lessons Learned
Banners in Back
Do NOT place your banner of blood at the front of the unit. I realized when Ian was considering shooting at my bloodletters that was a horrible mistake. You want to always put the banner of blood at the back of the unit.



Splitting Horrors Around
Horrors are really good for lines of fire. Notice how many I kept hidden behind the terrain and only exposed a few horrors. While I moved forward I wrapped around the ruins giving me multiple lines of fire. The overall area of influence for the horrors was quite impressive.



Less PlagueBearers
20 plaguebearers are just to many. I could have brought 15 or even 12 and been just fine. Ian simply did not shoot at them due to knowing how tough they are.

Having the herald with the grimoire buried in the squad was very effective. This made it nearly impossible to dislodge him, and losing -1 invuln save when you have a 2+ cover save is not that bad.


Keep Fateweaver Alive
Instead of flying fateweaver away, I should have rushed him into assault with more IG. I could have kept them locked up in assault instead of letting him get shot to bits by lascannons.

I also cast to many spells. i lost 40% of fateweavers wounds to perils. When you can cast 4 powers a turn its enough rope to hang yourself. I should have just stuck with the witchfires and the buffs.


Seeker Chariots Draw Fire
These models drew tons of fire, and I think its because they look pretty. Being only 40 points a pop its not that bad that they drew as much fire as they did, but they just did not even get close to the enemy.

The jury is out on the seeker chariots, but right now I'm thinking another soul grinder would be the better solution. A skull cannon would also be more effective.


Slaanesh Grinders
My soul grinders would have been a lot more effective if I had fleet and the ability to move forward another 3" when running. I would have been in a solid turn 2 assault for both of them.


Rushing LRBTs is Bad
3 punishers + 3 chimeras can put out an insane amount of firepower. His ability to just erase squads of daemons was impressive. I don't have solutions for that, other than soul grinders and fateweaver. Anything else that could have caused problems he delt with very quickly.

I don't know if even 20 khorne dogs and 20 seekers would have been enough.


Fateweaver + Grimoire = Stupid
Having a 35/36 chance of saving is stupidly good. It means that fateweaver was basically invulnerable for 8/9 of the turns. This combo is extremely good.

Unlike a GCO, fateweaver is not going to be killing everything with its fists. Instead fateweaver utilizes spells to do effect, and he did quite a bit on this game. The beam attack is very powerful, as you can use it to hit multiple vehicles. You can also use him to squat on an objective just like a GUO.

Great game. Interestingly enough, Fatey can't fail his psychic tests due to LD12, though he can still Perils.

Thanks for showing us the new daemons.

Did he hover his Vendettas? Otherwise I don't think you could shoot them with the beam PSA. If I missed that, I apologize.

We talked with some of the other guys at the club, and we ruled that you can beam the flyers if your using skyfire (which fatey was). If we got it wrong, please let me know.

I did not know that fatey could still cast on a 12. I thought he was limited by the cap of 10 on the psychic tests. Either way, I peril'ed myself with rolls of 12 or 2. I did not roll any 11s. I was going to wait until a GW FAQ or tourney FAQ before I started saying fatey passed on an 12.

I think one of the biggest takeaways from this was how good fateweaver can be when combo'ed with the grimoire. His ability to be nearly invulnerable most of the time is a huge advantage. I think that its one way that fatey can still be used to good effect in the new codex.

Another big takeway for me was the footprint effect of horrors. See that big squad of 20 horrors. Anything within 24" of any one of those horrors can be targeted. I was very impressed with the area of influence of that unit.

 jy2 wrote:
Great game. Interestingly enough, Fatey can't fail his psychic tests due to LD12, though he can still Perils.

Thanks for showing us the new daemons.

You can't take your LD above 10

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/511675.page

We talked with some of the other guys at the club, and we ruled that you can beam the flyers if your using skyfire (which fatey was). If we got it wrong, please let me know.

The FAQ mentions that anything like Beams, The Necrons Deathray, and other stuff that hits automatically, can't hit zooming flyers.

Skimmed the report if I am honest as I am more interested in the Daemons.

Can you give more detail on the Pink Horrors? What did you think of their shooting and how do you feel about psychic tests?

Soul Grinders worth the points? Look pretty meh to me and I think skyfire attracts people if I am honest.

Do you think Plaguebearers in units of 10 will survive for camping on objectives?

Do you think Daemonettes would better than Bloodletters?

What did you think of the Heralds? Worth the points for the S6 shooting, extra shots and re-roll to hit?

Screamers and Flamers worth it?

Have you used any big monsters yet?

Edit : These are my thoughts from reading the codex and my game. Please don't take them as gosipal. I might change my mind in another 2 months.

 mercer wrote:
Can you give more detail on the Pink Horrors? What did you think of their shooting and how do you feel about psychic tests?

I think one or two units in your army is extremely solid. They give a lot of flexability.

 mercer wrote:
Soul Grinders worth the points? Look pretty meh to me and I think skyfire attracts people if I am honest.

I found them very good for causing threats. Being able to run them forward and attack 5 times with STR 10, AP2 hits is very scary to any tank.

 mercer wrote:
Do you think Plaguebearers in units of 10 will survive for camping on objectives?

With a herald on a palequin -- yes. You might want to go up to 12, but even 10 are extremely resiliant. Being able to go to ground for a 2+ save is very strong.

 mercer wrote:
Do you think Daemonettes would better than Bloodletters?

Yes. Being faster and having rending attacks makes them better. I only have 10 painted up, so thats what I used.

 mercer wrote:
What did you think of the Heralds? Worth the points for the S6 shooting, extra shots and re-roll to hit?

Yes. I think one squad of those horrors with the herald will be a staple for me from now on. Going up to STR 6 on the shooting means that any AV 10/11 vehicle you get shots on will blow up through volume of fire. Always give your herald a disk.

 mercer wrote:
Screamers and Flamers worth it?

Not in this game. While I like the theory of having a few flamers to help out with horde control, I don't think Ill bring them again. I only brought them because I had the models painted, and I try to only play with painted models.

 mercer wrote:
Have you used any big monsters yet?

This was my first game. Just fateweaver. I don't think that anything else would have lived long against his list. Being able to pour out that many STR 5/6 shots per turn was brutal.

Interesting game. However, I think that if you use the Grimoire and fail, the target unit gets -1 on its invulnerable saves. Therefore Fateweaver would have had a 4++ on turn six, not a 3++.

Regardless, the Fateweaver/Grimoire combo seems quite good. Your reroll should allow you to largely mitigate the chance of damaging your own Invulnerable save. In this game, your opponent was probably unwise to target Fateweaver with so much firepower while he had a rerolling 2+ save. Instead I think the best way of dealing with this combo is to either use psychic defense to mitigate Fateweaver's abilities (preferably Runes of Warding, which make casting very unsafe) or to target the Herald.

One other thing to watch out for is Grey Knight Stormravens with Mindstrike Missiles, as these force Perils of the Warp results directly and can potentially kill Fateweaver (or a psychic Herald) very easily while bypassing their saves. Against these (and a few other threats), Fateweaver will probably have to remain Swooping.

The herald was buried in a squad of plague bearers. If he shot at him, I would have just went to ground for a 2+ cover save. There was no way he was going to dig out that herald without assaulting it.

The way I read the working on the Grimoire is that the unit the bearer is in suffers the -1 to the saves, not the target unit.
"On a score of 1-2, the Daemon has been unable to overcome his temptation to belittle and punish his allies -- all Daemon models in the unit (excluding the bearer of the Grimoire of True Names) suffer a -1 penalty ..."
Why would they exclude the bearer if it was the target unit?

If its the target unit that suffers a -1, then ran it wrong. Oops


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kingsley wrote:
Regardless, the Fateweaver/Grimoire combo seems quite good. Your reroll should allow you to largely mitigate the chance of damaging your own Invulnerable save. In this game, your opponent was probably unwise to target Fateweaver with so much firepower while he had a rerolling 2+ save.

I agree. He should have focused what he had onto my scoring troops.

At the very least, this Batrep has made me rethink Fateweaver.

Being able to manipulate the warp storm table was pretty cool. I was able to turn that "2" result turn 1 into an 5. I was able to convert rolls and got two 11s, a 10, and a 12 on the chart.

I did some mathhammer on this earlier, and it was cool to see it play out like I planned.

Any time I rolled a 7 on the warp storm chart (it happend twice) and I passed my grimoire test, I rerolled the low dice.

 labmouse42 wrote:
The herald was buried in a squad of plague bearers. If he shot at him, I would have just went to ground for a 2+ cover save. There was no way he was going to dig out that herald without assaulting it.

Gotcha. I don't think going to ground for Dæmons is going to stick around post-FAQ, but it's certainly a good tactic for now. One thing to note is that even forcing the Herald to go to ground can be potentially useful, as it may cause Fateweaver to move too far ahead of the Herald to benefit in later turns.

 labmouse42 wrote:
The way I read the working on the Grimoire is that the unit the bearer is in suffers the -1 to the saves, not the target unit.
"On a score of 1-2, the Daemon has been unable to overcome his temptation to belittle and punish his allies -- all Daemon models in the unit (excluding the bearer of the Grimoire of True Names) suffer a -1 penalty ..."
Why would they exclude the bearer if it was the target unit?

The same "all Dæmon models in the unit, excluding the bearer" is used when describing the positive effects. I think it excludes the bearer because he could target his own unit for the power and it doesn't affect him regardless of roll.

I know Mercer brought it up already but how'd the soulgrinders do as anti-flyer platform? Between both fire modes the butcher cannons seem like they always be scoring at least one hit.

n the shooting attack, I used fatweaver to use a beam attack across all 3 vendettas. I rolled a STR 10 beam. One vendetta got its 'deny the witch' roll, and the other 2 succesfully evaded. Ian's dice were hot.


Thought if it is DTW'ed it fails to go off and none of the dettas would have been hit?

 Kingsley wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
The way I read the working on the Grimoire is that the unit the bearer is in suffers the -1 to the saves, not the target unit.
"On a score of 1-2, the Daemon has been unable to overcome his temptation to belittle and punish his allies -- all Daemon models in the unit (excluding the bearer of the Grimoire of True Names) suffer a -1 penalty ..."
Why would they exclude the bearer if it was the target unit?

The same "all Dæmon models in the unit, excluding the bearer" is used when describing the positive effects. I think it excludes the bearer because he could target his own unit for the power and it doesn't affect him regardless of roll.

I agree. All effects, good or bad, should happen to the target unit.

MarkyMark wrote:
Thought if it is DTW'ed it fails to go off and none of the dettas would have been hit?

I was under the impression that each unit rolled indvidually during a beam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:
I agree. All effects, good or bad, should happen to the target unit.

Looking at it further, I agree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:
I know Mercer brought it up already but how'd the soulgrinders do as anti-flyer platform? Between both fire modes the butcher cannons seem like they always be scoring at least one hit.

STR 7 does not hurt AV 12 worth a darn. I used them to go after the lemun russ tanks, which were a much bigger threat to my daemons.

Scouring always has 6 objectives.

 labmouse42 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Thought if it is DTW'ed it fails to go off and none of the dettas would have been hit?

I was under the impression that each unit rolled indvidually during a beam.

Well you are not the first person to mention it, I just see it in the BRB as this

"it now gets a chance to deny the witch and nullify the power. If the power is nullifed, the attempt fails and nothing further happens"

Just assumed the power doesnt go off?, anyone else clarify?.

Anyway back on topic, I played against a mix of daemons on sunday as well, daemonettes and seekers and chariot (darn they were FAST!) GUO, nurgle herald and nurgle DP with nurgle beasts and plague bearers with some blood letters flamers and horrors, again my opponent was trying to get a feel with what works. I was using triple land raider DA tourny list I done quite well with the other weekend, bascailly I played the mission and he did not so it was a big win for me but interesting none the less.

GUO with iron arm is a scary prospect, toughness 7 as standard means when iron arm goes off it is now toughness 8 or more, meaning meltas and kraks are 4's or worse to wound and lascannons not far behind add to a invul save or good cover save my best bet was in ignore it!, which I did as it was hammer and avnil so was quite far away from me. Managed to beat the beasts in combat by 3 (4 wounds on him leaving 3 models on 2 wounds a piece) and only one failed save on my part might he was testing for daemonic instalibilty on a 4, he failed by 5 meaning he had 1 beast left on 1 wound, that helped a lot! (from experince with nurgle spawn they are tie up units).

Blood letters were dakka'ed out quite early, he was very defensive deployment but his slaanesh models did move a LOT in 4 turns, around 70 inches or something for his seekers over 5 turns.

His DP went down easy enough, few wounds from hyperios's then smashed attacked a LR (both pens saved by PFG....) then dakka'ed by lots of bolters, toughness 5 isnt great (no psyhics on him).

If it had gone past turn 5 his daemonettes would have been on my left flank and it may have been a different game, but next time I said i'll use BA assault marines or deathwing to see how they do against a non gun line army. The whole point of this post was to acutally say I did think after the game they may well struggle against a good guard list with ignore cover guns (manticore or medusa is it?) big high str templates (finally a melta does more to a flamer then a bolter!) and lots of small arms fire. Interesting how darn cheap the daemons are, really looking forward to the next non marine codex to see how GW are doing 6th ed.

Out of curiousity, was there any time where the fear test was remotely useful against your opponents?

 mercer wrote:
Soul Grinders worth the points? Look pretty meh to me and I think skyfire attracts people if I am honest.

I found them very good for causing threats. Being able to run them forward and attack 5 times with STR 10, AP2 hits is very scary to any tank.

Indeed. Did you take daemon of slaanesh then?

 mercer wrote:
Do you think Plaguebearers in units of 10 will survive for camping on objectives?

With a herald on a palequin -- yes. You might want to go up to 12, but even 10 are extremely resiliant. Being able to go to ground for a 2+ save is very strong.

Not sure what terrain you play on, but I play on a lot of ruins so shrouding would give them 2+ cover save anyway.

 mercer wrote:
What did you think of the Heralds? Worth the points for the S6 shooting, extra shots and re-roll to hit?

Yes. I think one squad of those horrors with the herald will be a staple for me from now on. Going up to STR 6 on the shooting means that any AV 10/11 vehicle you get shots on will blow up through volume of fire. Always give your herald a disk.

Why a disk for? To split off later?

MarkyMark wrote:Anyway back on topic, I played against a mix of daemons on sunday as well, daemonettes and seekers and chariot (darn they were FAST!) GUO, nurgle herald and nurgle DP with nurgle beasts and plague bearers with some blood letters flamers and horrors, again my opponent was trying to get a feel with what works. I was using triple land raider DA tourny list I done quite well with the other weekend, bascailly I played the mission and he did not so it was a big win for me but interesting none the less.

So, you brought a hard-counter tournament list against a mixed-bag "trying to get a feel" list. That..sounds fun.

Good batrep, btw. Thanks for putting this up so soon after the codex release. Still not sold on Fateweaver, but if you roll well on Div and Bio he can definitely be a beast. Not sure why your opponent wasted any shooting at a 2++ rerollable save, though!

Lou_Cypher wrote:Out of curiousity, was there any time where the fear test was remotely useful against your opponents?

Not in this game. If he failed a LD check it would have been when my daemonettes assaulted his vets.

mercer wrote:Indeed. Did you take daemon of slaanesh then?

Not that time. That's why I described in my 'lessons learned' to put a slaanesh mark on them next time.

 mercer wrote:
Not sure what terrain you play on, but I play on a lot of ruins so shrouding would give them 2+ cover save anyway.

If you have the ruins its a bonus. We can't always plan on ruins being there.

 mercer wrote:
Why a disk for? To split off later?

Two reasons. First it lets you angle his shots. Being able to move 12" and shoot let the herald be where he needed to be for every shot that was required.

Secondly, as you mentioned, it let me split off later for contesting -- which I did that game. When you know its the last turn (something that often happens at tourneys due to time) and you went last, you can boost your herald 36" onto an objective to contest it. Most people don't expect that from a horror squad.

whigwam wrote:So, you brought a hard-counter tournament list against a mixed-bag "trying to get a feel" list. That..sounds fun.

Good batrep, btw. Thanks for putting this up so soon after the codex release. Still not sold on Fateweaver, but if you roll well on Div and Bio he can definitely be a beast. Not sure why your opponent wasted any shooting at a 2++ rerollable save, though!

Heh, and people are saying the daemon codex sucks because it does not perform well to the hard counter.

I'm not sold on fateweaver either to be honest. However, I do like the idea of being able to reliably contest one opponents objective for the entire game. In missions where are only two objectives its a huge advantage. You can also park him so hes touching the relic with his base. Since no enemy model can get within 1" of him, they can't pick up the relic unless they assault fateweaver -- which would tie the unit up. This helps as the daemon army is very CC oriented.

I think that the codex does do well with a tough greater daemon, and I'm not sure what that is yet. Bloodthirsters wreck complete face, but die after they beat the snot out of something. Keeper of secrets are cheap, can deep strike off seeker/'nettes for close deployment, but are very weak from shooting.

Right now I'm leaning to a GUO or fateweaver.

buddha wrote:I know Mercer brought it up already but how'd the soulgrinders do as anti-flyer platform? Between both fire modes the butcher cannons seem like they always be scoring at least one hit.

The problem is STR 7 hits don't do jack to AV 12 flyers. Your scoring 1.5 hits on a flyer -- which is not that hot when you need a 5 to glance and 6 to pen.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 mercer wrote:
Why a disk for? To split off later?

Two reasons. First it lets you angle his shots. Being able to move 12" and shoot let the herald be where he needed to be for every shot that was required.

Secondly, as you mentioned, it let me split off later for contesting -- which I did that game. When you know its the last turn (something that often happens at tourneys due to time) and you went last, you can boost your herald 36" onto an objective to contest it. Most people don't expect that from a horror squad.

What do you mean angle shots? You mean 12" when split the Herald off?

 whigwam wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:Anyway back on topic, I played against a mix of daemons on sunday as well, daemonettes and seekers and chariot (darn they were FAST!) GUO, nurgle herald and nurgle DP with nurgle beasts and plague bearers with some blood letters flamers and horrors, again my opponent was trying to get a feel with what works. I was using triple land raider DA tourny list I done quite well with the other weekend, bascailly I played the mission and he did not so it was a big win for me but interesting none the less.

So, you brought a hard-counter tournament list against a mixed-bag "trying to get a feel" list. That..sounds fun.

Good batrep, btw. Thanks for putting this up so soon after the codex release. Still not sold on Fateweaver, but if you roll well on Div and Bio he can definitely be a beast. Not sure why your opponent wasted any shooting at a 2++ rerollable save, though!

Exactly where i mentioned it stright off the bat, I was asked to bring a competitive list to see how his list would fare, I did not know what he was using before hand but he was a fan of flamer spam before (not so much screamer spam). I thought it was a parallel to Labmouses game as he was using what he had rather then what he wanted to.

Thanks for putting that out though

MarkyMark wrote:

 whigwam wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:Anyway back on topic, I played against a mix of daemons on sunday as well, daemonettes and seekers and chariot (darn they were FAST!) GUO, nurgle herald and nurgle DP with nurgle beasts and plague bearers with some blood letters flamers and horrors, again my opponent was trying to get a feel with what works. I was using triple land raider DA tourny list I done quite well with the other weekend, bascailly I played the mission and he did not so it was a big win for me but interesting none the less.

So, you brought a hard-counter tournament list against a mixed-bag "trying to get a feel" list. That..sounds fun.

Good batrep, btw. Thanks for putting this up so soon after the codex release. Still not sold on Fateweaver, but if you roll well on Div and Bio he can definitely be a beast. Not sure why your opponent wasted any shooting at a 2++ rerollable save, though!

Exactly where i mentioned it stright off the bat, I was asked to bring a competitive list to see how his list would fare, I did not know what he was using before hand but he was a fan of flamer spam before (not so much screamer spam). I thought it was a parallel to Labmouses game as he was using what he had rather then what he wanted to.

Thanks for putting that out though

Well, if your opponent was asking for it, I'm not judging! It's just that the Tri-Raider Dakkabanner list is the single worst matchup I can imagine for pure Daemons... I can understand wanting to face something competitive, have a real test of the codex's mettle, but it seems like your opponent was just begging to get walloped.

I did say this in my post

but next time I said i'll use BA assault marines or deathwing to see how they do against a non gun line army

To be honest I like the new daemons, I am a fan of psyhic powers in general and am currently starting to build a FMC/pskyer heavy demon army, mono tzeentch for the time being.

Great battle report thanks. I agree with earlier posts I don't think you can use beam weapons on flying 'flyers'

You mentioned in the report your khorne beserkers going to ground? I thought that they were fearless.. if so then they can not go to ground.... Or is the rule that they are only fearless to shooting attacks for morale roles? I know in close combat the daemonic instability goes into play. Thanks. Just looking for clarification. Also the Plague Herald had the Grimoire right?

 whigwam wrote:
Exactly where i mentioned it stright off the bat, I was asked to bring a competitive list to see how his list would fare, I did not know what he was using before hand but he was a fan of flamer spam before (not so much screamer spam). I thought it was a parallel to Labmouses game as he was using what he had rather then what he wanted to.

You know, I did not ask him to bring a competitive list. I just asked him to bring stuff, it just happened to be a hard counter.

I am actually thinking you could build daemons to handle the tri-land raider pretty well. The soul grinders are very effective at destroying vehicles. The land raiders will have two turns of shooting MM/AC to destroy them before the grinders are on top of the land raiders. That's not much time.

Also any MCs can be nasty to land raiders. A single GUO can divert the effect of the land raiders. Just squat on top of the objectives and crush anything that gets close to them.

The best counter to the land raider spam are plague bearers. To kill 20 plague bearers, you would need to pour out 270 TL bolter shots at them. Sure, the land raiders can pump out 24 per turn, so that means if every DA land raider shot one plague bearer squad for every round then they could reasonably have a chance of wiping out one squad!

 mercer wrote:
What do you mean angle shots? You mean 12" when split the Herald off?

No.
So each psyker's shooting attack works from the models LOS. The horrors are nice because as a brotherhood of sorcerers you can 'shoot' all your shots from any one horror. This means if your footprint for the unit is 16" across, you can shoot from the far left horror or the far right horror. This is great for angling those side/rear shots.

However, your herald's shots come form where the herald is, as its a different 'gun' he is shooting. This means your herald must 'line up' his shots. To do this you want to move him 12" so he can get to the side/rear armor shots.

Remember, you also cannot kill past your range, so you need to make sure you have your herald and horror about 18" from the squad if your going to go into a squad. If your going after a vehicle, you can sit at 24" away.

whigwam wrote:[Thanks for putting that out though

I would think that the DA ravenwing would be worse. Unlike the land raider, the ravenwing can move 12" and shoot all its guns. Of course, you can get into assault with the ravenwing

It does bring up a good point through. Daemon players are going to need to bring solid counters to land raiders. I expect Ill be running 2-3 slaanesh soul grinders in the future.

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:You mentioned in the report your khorne beserkers going to ground? I thought that they were fearless.. if so then they can not go to ground.... Or is the rule that they are only fearless to shooting attacks for morale roles? I know in close combat the daemonic instability goes into play. Thanks. Just looking for clarification. Also the Plague Herald had the Grimoire right?

Bloodletters went to ground, not bezerkers. They are not fearless. They have daemonic instability, which means they auto-pass any tests from shooting.

Yes, the plague herald had the Grimoire. That's a solid place to put it if you want to avoid it getting picked out.

Cool thanks for the info. Being able to have the Plague bearers or any of them for that matter will really help keep them alive longer in theory.

The flying nurgle DP did get into combat with the command squads land raider, scored two pens saved both with PFG!, woohoo, then proceeded to die, I think biomancy is a must on a DP imo?

Simply put I knew about shrouded plague bearers, left them all game and shot the killy stuff but plague bearers have got to be one of the best holding troops now!, in regards to the GUO he took three turns to get to the middle of table objective, by that point two combat squads had jumped out of the LR on was behind claiming the objective, other was in front screening the objective form the GUO sarg was in front squad ready to challenge the GUO (stubborn ld 8 plus 12inch from banner for re roll means tarpitted for a 2 or more turns).

Anyway sorry for comparing games dude! thanks for the report and I learnt something very intresting, I thought the grimorie was one use only! how wrong was I, thats gone up a lot imo. What do you think the of other rewards?, at first I spec'ed up my DP's with no rewards but now coming around to them, each one is lvl1 or 2 and flying possibly without armour (lvl 2 or armour, cant fit both :()