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Can they be any good with out arty tanks our flyers? I dont want to run flyers as i don't like them and think they are op when people bring 6to9 flyers . i also feel the armor hase no use in this ed and have been super nurfed. I also think arty is not as good as it should be with min rang and such.

On arty: Min range rules are different now, minimum range doesn't stop you from shooting it just does something to your scatter (I forget exactly what. I think it's something like you can't subtract BS under minimum)

On fliers: Yeah you can be good without them, but really the Vendetta is almost too good to be true sometimes. If you want to be competitive, a Vendetta is pretty much an autobuy. If you don't care too much about that, you can do fine without it.

On tanks: Everyone I know is still loving Russes, with some variants becoming much better than before. You just need to use them differently than before with ordnance rules (on specific variants) and heavy rules

Without any of them? I'm guessing you would be running straight infantry? It's possible, but you WILL die VERY fast. Infantry (at least Guardsmen) die MUCH faster than my tanks in this edition. I'm lucky to get my blob of 40-50 men to survive until the end of the game where before I could pull through with 15-20 men still.

Take 1 Flyer then. No one will fault you for that.

I have faced Chimera(w/ Meltas and plasmas inside) lists w/ 2 to 3 Russes -- they are still very strong.

Marbo is OP and can do a lot of damage.

Veterans w/ BS 4 are strong.

You can have losts of Las Cannon/ auto cannon fire which is really strong.

You can include psykers which are fun.

You can go the big blob for a horde army.

They also have people who can mess with reserve rolls which would hurt my Nids list.

The guard are very strong over all and versatile.

Take a Leman Russ executioner, challenge a marine player and tell me then that Russes aren't strong. Take a Medusa and challenge that marine player again and tell me that arty isn't strong. Challenge that marine player once more, bring both and tell me to my face that armor isn't powerful

Also, minimum range is just the minimum distance you need before you able to indirectly fire (Meaning you can place your blast marker over a hidden squad but you can't subtract BS). You can still fire a bassie at a Dreadknight in front of it.



However, if you want to run a pure foot guard list you better be prepared to put the models right back in the box. Spam lascannons, Commissars (Lord Commissars are pretty good too) and meltaguns. Banners can't hurt either.

Mech lists did not get hideously nerfed. Furthermore, they were hurt less by the change to 6th than foot lists were.

No, you don't need fliers to be successful with guard. Russes got stronger in 6th ed, but if you don't want to take them, that's also fine. As mentioned, I think you're reading your rules wrong for artillery.

If you want to do JUST foot guard, I'd point you to here, wherein you can follow the escapades of my stormtrooper-heavy lists. A couple in that part of the series had vehicles (like the first one), but it pretty quickly gets stuck in on all infantry.

That was the best I could make of it, though. Infantry is just too easy to neutralize. That's why I swapped out my support choices for russes, which generally survive the entire game nowadays.

As long as you're not against the really hardcore players, pure infantry IG CAN win. You will not be considered unstoppable by any means, but you can put up a decent fight, and as long as you're quick during the movement phase people will enjoy playing you (because even if you crush them, odds are they'll remove a few handfuls of guardsmen, so it doesn't sting as bad)

However, tanks and artillery are still excellent for IG. We have the best armor in the game, don't let anyone fool you. We have good transports, good battle tanks, good artillery, decent fast tanks, etc. etc. Almost every single armored unit in the IG codex is good and has a legitimate use, even "bad" ones like the Hellhound and Sentinel are useable if you're hellbound on using them.

If you decide to go footguard, you'll need to bring A LOT of guardsmen, as in at least 120+. You'll also be maxing out your elite slots with stormtroopers and/or Marbo, to get you some fast response units and give you the ability to harass, because footguard is very slow and has a hard time pushing up the table. You may also want to look at Al'Rahem, Harker, or even *shudder* penal legion to get you some scoring units in the opponent's back field. Just keep in mind that foot IG is a slow, cumbersome, and difficult to use army. It has a steep learning curve, and you will have some rough games starting out. But if this sounds fine to you, all the power to you. It can still be a fun army and looks amazing painted up on the table. Nothing is quite as inspiring as mass ranks of infantry lining up to assault a position.

I use to take 2 auto cannon russ Two basics russes and 2vanqcers but i allways lose then all by trun 3our 4 ever one i play knows ill bring tanks and takes a lot of guns to deal with my russes. it crazy last army i fought had 3 deve squads all laz cannon.and drop pod dreads my tanks never stood a chance along with my transports . I like the hellhound and its different models find them cool but on the table they ant so good

We have a league going on. 500 pts first month. 1 HQ, 1 Troop.

My Ig list:

HQ--
CO, MoOr, AC, H.Fl, vox

TROOP
PCS
PC(p.wep), AC, H.Fl, Vox
(combined squads)
S1- AC, Fl, Vox, Commissar (P.Wep)
S2- AC, Fl
S3- AC, Fl

Hvy.Wep.Sqd.
Mortar x3

Thats 5 AC, 5 Flamers, 1 big boom, 3 small booms

The commands come in handy, as do the staying power of the ACs and the Mortars.
I am 1w, 1l so far with this list.

frogy27 wrote:I use to take 2 auto cannon russ Two basics russes and 2vanqcers but i allways lose then all by trun 3our 4

Wow. Either you're using them wrong, or you're just really unlucky with them.

That or you're not giving them enough firepower to keep them alive. What are you taking for sponson and hull weapons?

Only one with side guns is auto russ 2hb and laz cannon other don't have any thing because the can only shot at bs 1 if i shot ordinance guns

The problem here is A) your tactics, and B) their list tailoring.

Try putting your russes in cover (Aegis lines are great) for a 4+ or 5+ save against the lascannon spam.

Or, just deploy your Russ right at the back of your table. That'll force them to put their lascannons right forward since the Russ has twice the range of the LC and can paste them from afar.

So i guess all have to brake down and buy 3 flyer. as that what you need to win. i just can't stand flyers. view them as op

You don't need flyers to win, infact you can mostly ignore flyers in small point games. So long as you have a healthy troops number (be it foot or mech) backed up by the big guns you should be fine.

It just seems this ed all about flyers

Got a friend with an all foot IG army. He scares the crap out of people with all the Heavy Weapon Teams and massive amount of troops advancing on people. Lots of firepower and to much target dilution for people to know what to target.

Me personally, I am currently working on my Daemons and Deathguard. Afterwards I plan on moving my IG from Mech Vets to Iron Fist Platoons. I just need 5-6 more chimeras.

frogy27 wrote:
It just seems this ed all about flyers

It's what GW WANTS the game to be about, but it's not 100% about it.

Plenty of armies can do well without them.

Just think of them as another thing you have to prepare for, like hordes, pyskers, or tanks.

Infantry heavy armies are actually one of the armies that can hard counter fliers if you play them right. Most flyers are anti tank, or at least light armor. Only the Dakkajet and maybe the Necron flyers have enough shots to scare an infantry army, but then they run into problem too.

Thanks to 40k "logic" flyers can't stop on top of an enemy unit. Have you ever seen a mass infantry imperial Guard army on the table?



That's a small one.

There aint exactly a lot of room for the flyer to stop over. If you do it right, they'll fly on from their deployment, and then be forced to be forced to immediately fly off next turn. This really only hard counters mass flier armies like the necron Air force, but it's something to consider. You can also take advantage of your massive amount of troops to counter the fact that a flyer heavy army will have almost none.

So yeah, the last thing you'll need to worry about is fliers. Your bane will be mass armor and elite infantry deathstars.

You don't need flyers to win.

They're just the best units in the game, so it makes winning easier.

 TheCaptain wrote:
You don't need flyers to win.

They're just the best units in the game, so it makes winning easier.

Yeah, or at least the IG flyers are.

Flyers in 6th are like Transports in 5th. Pretty much everyone takes them, but they're not 100% necessary in a list to win. Having a way to counter them is required though, because you WILL see them at any local tourney.

So yeah, you don't need flyers to win, you just need a way to deal with them. Whether that plan is ignore them, spam shots until you get lucky, bring hydras, or bring flyers, is up to you.