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inmygravenimage wrote:It's worth bearing in mind, also, that 90% of the time you'll be using one of the standard ammos on your Sternguard. CFs fill a niche; you have other things to fill the anti-tank/anti-MC role of melta/plas.

Gitsplitta wrote:Point well taken. I could cut one plas & melta from the sternguard for flamers. Giving them to the tac sergeants is a matter of points and modeling... and opportunity as usually those tac squads just ride around in their boxes providing supporting fire for the advanced units. I'll have to think about it.

Thanks for the support graven, that was what I had in mind : you already have a lot of meltas & lascannons for AT duty, but nearly nothing for anti-horde... 2-4 flamer shots won't save the day, sure, but they might help, with a little "cost" on your AT-capacity.

Also, one thing that you could try is a 10-strong Sternguard squad, that can combat-squad when they get out out their DPs... Which means you could split your melta shots between 2 vehicles, or crack open a transport then incinerate its passengers, or target a DE Ravager AND the large Wyches mob nearby... You "just" have to find points for a further 2 Sternguards...

Gits, I like that list... Like its been said already, there are issues with all lists, my DoA list has the distinct risk that I'm hoping to be able to deep strike within 6 inches of a drop pod that hopefully doesn't mishap, and then I'm stuck out in the open (for the most part).

But I like the idea of the scouts (might have to get some GMS trades for some scout bikers )


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Curses! Foiled by the page rollover again!

Yggdrasil wrote:Thanks for the support graven, that was what I had in mind : you already have a lot of meltas & lascannons for AT duty, but nearly nothing for anti-horde... 2-4 flamer shots won't save the day, sure, but they might help, with a little "cost" on your AT-capacity.

Actually you're forgetting the scout bikes and the devs which between them can deliver 10 frag blasts a turn. Not an overwhelming amount of anti-horde but better than "nearly nothing".

Also, one thing that you could try is a 10-strong Sternguard squad, that can combat-squad when they get out out their DPs... Which means you could split your melta shots between 2 vehicles, or crack open a transport then incinerate its passengers, or target a DE Ravager AND the large Wyches mob nearby... You "just" have to find points for a further 2 Sternguards...

Interesting idea, but I wasn't aware that you could do that. You aren't allowed to carry more than one squad in a transport and a combat squadded unit counts as two separate squads. Can you declare them combat squadded after they've left the transport? I'm not too sure about that.

Alfndrate wrote:Gits, I like that list... Like its been said already, there are issues with all lists, my DoA list has the distinct risk that I'm hoping to be able to deep strike within 6 inches of a drop pod that hopefully doesn't mishap, and then I'm stuck out in the open (for the most part). But I like the idea of the scouts (might have to get some GMS trades for some scout bikers )

I really like mine. I mean more than half of it for me is the modeling and painting of course... but for once the figures I like are actually useful!! Not sure how to take that really...

Curses! Foiled by the page rollover again!

You and me both brother. 180 pages though.... do I get a prize??

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I've toyed with a couple of variants to address some of the points that Yggs made as well as some feedback I've gotten from other quarters and the fact that offensively, the Iron Clad has never accomplished much of anything in all the times I've played this list.

Option 1 removes the Iron Clad and one of the scout units + it's LS Storm and adds a second bike unit and a second dev unit. So while I give up the fear factor of the Iron Clad & a highly mobile scoring unit w/ a couple of meltas, I gain 10 more ML shots per turn, 6 of which are highly mobile. That's 20 ML shots total.

Option 2 removes the same, plus changes the terminator libby to a normal libby, adds a second bike squad *and* two vindicators. So I still get the 6, highly mobile missile shots as well as two AV-13, S10 pie plates that can move and fire. My assault elements then become two bike squads, one scout squad in LS Storm and the pod full of sternguard + libby, so a bit weaker but still threatening. The support element however gets much stronger with the addition of the vindis (two vindicators, two razorbacks, the rifleman & the devastators). This should be enough template action (2 pie plates, 16 small blast) to keep a hoard at bay, and the pie plates give me some kind of attack vs. death star units such as nob bikers, khorne riders or paladins.

I like Option 2 best out of all 3 versions (counting my current one) as it seems to be the most complete. The two elements are well balanced and there are a lot of "equal threats" throughout. If I can scavenge another 15 points out of it, I'll upgrade one of the MLs in the dev squad to a las cannon... but other than that I think it's pretty darn good. I still have the outflanking option for all of the scout elements too, and the sternguard can always start the game deployed & take advantage of their long ranged ammo. So it seems both versatile and flexible. Be a bit of painting to get from here to there, but I'm OK with that.

Thoughts?

I like the terminator libby, if nothing more than for his survivability against attacks that will shred his power armor version. I do like the Vindicators too though... :(

Gitsplitta wrote:
Interesting idea, but I wasn't aware that you could do that. You aren't allowed to carry more than one squad in a transport and a combat squadded unit counts as two separate squads. Can you declare them combat squadded after they've left the transport? I'm not too sure about that.

Yeah you can. It's right there in the combat squad rule.

Might want to check that again MSP. They recently clarified on the DA FAQ I know for sure, I assume to bring it in line with other books.
From the FAQ:
Q: If I split a Space Marine squad into two combat squads,
can both embark into or be deployed in the same
dedicated transport? (p23)
A: No. They are no longer the same unit and a transport
vehicle can only carry a single infantry squad.

Both options sound good, I personally like the one you had listed as Option 1, but that is just because i am a big fan of the missile launcher. Especially with 20 total, you could do some heavy damage on basically anything-a LR or another 14AV, plus you can switch to frag for crowd control. The thing i didn't like about Option 2 was the vindicators, but that is just me, never been a huge fan. I see the value they bring and how they can with that S10 blast, i just dont like the range, but they are very good at taking out those AV14 as you stated(this has happened to my LR many a time). So for me it all comes down to your play style.

Yeah, well... it's a trade off. The terminator libby can actually engage with confidence, the power armored libby is there strictly as a support element for his psychic abilities. The sternguard is a shooting unit however, so if he runs with them, he might never get into hand-to-hand. And the whole point of his "gate" is to be able to keep them shooting. Now... he's cheap, and without the loss of terminator armor there is no second vindicator. I won't run just one vindi as they're too easy to pop by themselves and the scatter makes one shot far from reliable. A pair however, is an entirely different story.

I will miss fielding the terminator libby though... as I hope to make it a truly special figure.

@dajobe: Well, to be honest, I'm not a big vindicator fan either... but I think most people make the mistake of running them singly where they're too easy to kill and their scatter makes them unreliable as weapons. I'm thinking that running a pair together with the razorbacks in support might increase their utility as well as giving me a way to deal with units that I currently have no answer for (death stars). It will also become a major focus for my opponent, which should take pressure off of my assault elements. That's the theory anyway.

But even though the Sternguard are a shooting unit, they will draw fire, especially on turns before you pop their combi weapons. So adding a 2 wound model with a 2+/3++ gives you a nice addition for wound allocation (especially if you're prone to rolling lots of 2s, but not lots of 1s (I'm the opposite sadly).

Brb, gotta go check army builder... I have an idea

I run a normal libby as well, and you are correct, scary units such as vindicators, MC's, or anything else pretty good are excellent at drawing fire that would have otherwise been given to other parts of my army. Thats why in a 2000+ point game, i death star my land raider, it usually eats up a ton of shots and doesnt die unless i am facing some tau with all of their cursed rail cannons, or some of the other random s9 and s10 weapons which there are generally few of on the field


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im in your boat alfrndate, i role 1's like its my job. but if its not a 1, its usually a 456

whalemusic360 wrote:Might want to check that again MSP. They recently clarified on the DA FAQ I know for sure, I assume to bring it in line with other books.
From the FAQ:
Q: If I split a Space Marine squad into two combat squads,
can both embark into or be deployed in the same
dedicated transport? (p23)
A: No. They are no longer the same unit and a transport
vehicle can only carry a single infantry squad.

Read your codex.

oh yeah, i forgot to comment on that, i really dont think that you can split to combat squad and put both in drop pod(can you?). because that has to be declared at beginning of game and a drop pod can only hold 1 squad.
correct me if im wrong.

Space Marines FAQ Ver. 1.1 wrote:Q: If I split a Space Marine squad into two combat squads,
can both embark into or be deployed in the same
dedicated transport? (p23)
A: No. They are no longer the same unit and a transport
vehicle can only carry a single infantry squad.

You can't combat squad them and place them in the same transport, BUT under the combat squad rules on page 51 it says that you can combat squad them when they disembark from a drop pod


ALSO: I'm currently trying to fit vindicators + Devs + Terminator Libby into the same list (need to fill about a hundred points lol).

You can. It's literally right there in the rule. Page 51.

I just said that...

FAQ overrules codex. I'm at work, so dont have the book with me

yeah, dont have my rules on me, so...sorry for partyin


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also, i will do that from now on, because that is sweet

Alf, you posted about 20 seconds before I did. :p

Whale, no. That FAQ is about having two squads in a transport, like a Rhino or Land Raider. There are never two units in the Drop Pod - the two halves separate after disembarking.

I've searched the "you make da call" forum and didn't find anything so I asked... we'll see what people come up with. The reason I'm skeptical MSP is that I often play guys who are really, really good (not just locally) and I've never seen anyone do it. You'd have thought *someone* would have done it once in a game somewhere along the line if it were legal... there are just too many advantages to the tactic no to. But, we'll see.

Guess that makes sense, there's no other way to deploy both halves at the same time really.

Essentially because you can't re-embark into a Drop Pod where you can a Rhino or Land Raider.

I believe the Combat Squadding with the Drop Pod is a specific situation which led to confusion in other situations. I also happen to have my codex on me.

'The one exception to this is a unit that arrives by Drop Pod. The player can choose to split such a unit into combat squads when it disembarks from the Drop Pod.'

So far, the early results say "yes"... but it's only for drop pods, not other transports. Hmmmm.... that does change things a bit. I could, for example... segregate my combimeltas and my combiflamers and plasmas... so the melta squad could crack open the vehicle and the plas/flamer squad could clean up the squishy bits inside (as Yggs suggested). Hmmmm....

really wish i had my rulebook...

Gitsplitta wrote:So far, the early results say "yes"... but it's only for drop pods, not other transports. Hmmmm.... that does change things a bit. I could, for example... segregate my combimeltas and my combiflamers and plasmas... so the melta squad could crack open the vehicle and the plas/flamer squad could clean up the squishy bits inside (as Yggs suggested). Hmmmm....

The reason why you didn't see anything in YMDC is that it's explicitly written out in the codex - there's nothing to question, really.

Yeah. it only works in Drop Pods. I've seen people split them just that way.

Gits, I've been thinking about your 2 options (and some of the discussion surrounding it... I need to double check this against the codex (but my Army Builder hasn't been wrong before on C:SM).

HQ: Terminator Libby w/SS, Gate, Null Zone
Elite: 10 Man Sternguard Squad w/ Full Combi-Melta and Combi plas (5 each), Power Fist (Also you can still attach the librarian to this, because standard SM drop pods can carry 12 models)
Elite: Rifleman Dread in pod
Troop: 5 Man Tac Squad w/Razorback las/plas, Power Sword
Troop: 5 Man Tac Squad w/Razorback las/plas, Power Sword
Troop: 5 Man Scout Squad, Combi-Weapon (I marked plas, but melta is the same)
FA: 4 Man Scout Bikes w/ 3 grenade launchers, locator beacon, power sword
FA: LS Storm w/MM
Heavy: 5 Man Dev Squad w/ 4 ML
Heavy: Vindicator
Heavy: Vindicator

There are enough points that you could still drop in an Iron clad (but the rifleman wouldn't be able to drop in)

Or you could split the meltas up so you could potentially take out two targets on the drop... even deploying the squads off of different parts of the pod to increase your threat range.

Holy crap this has potential...

Thanks for pointing this out Yggs and MGS... I'd totally missed that.

The joys of drop podding. Sternguard are nasty as they can be tailored for so many different roles and can work in harmony with eachother. Worse still, with Kantor they count as scoring units so can threaten objectives.

Truly the nastiest unit is C:SM

And they're pretty! (most important part)

OK, so now I have to figure out how to work two more sternguard into my list. Not easy... they're pricey.

If you take the list I have above, you can add in another LS storm with MM and an additional scout squad (sadly no combi-weapon) and have 1850 points on the nose

Edit (More Tinkerings): OR you can ignore the second storm and scout squad and take 2 Land speeders with multi-meltas and heavy flamers

Remember you need to add 15 points for a homing beacon on the scout bike srg (absolute must)... a power weapon & melta bomb would also increase the utility of that squad. You could drop the combi-weapon for the scout srg (in the LSS) and just give him a melta bomb, they way if they had the opportunity for a turn 1 charge into a vehicle they would stand a good chance of doing something. Saves 5 pts!