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2013/08/15 16:23:49
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons (Completed)
Here we have the battle of the Golden Throne Champions. I was the champion of the inaugural Golden Throne GT last year (2012) with my necrons. Adam (aka Mortetvie) is the new and current champion of the Golden Throne GT this year (2013). Unfortunately, I couldn't participate in this year's Golden Throne due to work. However, I did manage to get a game in against Adam's very good Eldar/Tau army.
This game actually took place the night before the Golden Throne, before we all knew that Adam would go on to become the champion. I brought a double-FOC necron list that abused the double-FOC to the max. This was what I would have brought to the Golden Throne had I been able to go. Adam brought a deceptively good Eldar/Tau list. I knew it would be good because I also faced against a similar list before in a RTT that I went to (where I got spanked!):
So his list wasn't going to fool me. I knew just how good and dangerous it was.
For those of you who don't know Mortetvie, he is a long-time and very, very good eldar player. And lately, he's been on a hot winning streak. He won his last 2 RTT's down in SoCal, including a Feast of Blades qualifier event:
So here we have 2 successful players going at each other in what I dubb as the Battle of the Golden Throne Champs. But no matter who comes out on top, it's going to be a great game.
Movement: Eldau have 2 units of jetbikes and 1 troop in a serpent. Kroots can outflank. Necrons have 4 troops in flyers. Eldau have the riptide, who is somewhat maneuverable. Necrons have 2 wraithstar units, with Lords who can spit up. Finally, necrons have flyers who can get to Eldau troops practically anywhere. Translation: there is no where to hide for Eldau troops.
Advantage:Necrons
Shooting: Teslas are very good and necrons have 10 of them. Eldau have a plethora of shooting which is very dangerous to necrons. Nightspinner fires S8 barrages which would insta-kill wraiths. Riptide and broadsides have Interceptor + Skyfire which may keep necron flyers away initially, thus nerfing their beta-strike. Dark reapers, with Tank-hunter and Ignore Cover from the commander, can reliably take down 1 annihilation barge per turn, which gives out VP's due to Big Guns. D-scythe wraithguards as well as supporting fire from Tau will make charging dangerous. Broadsides can put up the volume to reliably hurt necron flyers or wraiths. Warp spiders can easily get rear armor on the AB's or hurt wraiths with volume. Overall, I'd give a slight advantage here to:
Advantage:Eldar
Assault: No contest. Necrons are better in assault unless Eldau can shoot down all the wraiths and D-lords....which would then mean that they would have to ignore necron firepower. Either ways, not a good scenario for Eldau.
Advantage:Necrons
Resiliency: This is a tough one. We all know that flyers, wraiths led by a Destroyer Lord and AV13 barges are tough, tough units to kill. However, Eldau is not without tricks of its own. They can spam 2+ units, which necron teslas will have trouble with. The Spiritseer can give the unit of Dark Reapers Conceal, which translates to 2+ cover behind the Aegis. Moreover, they have the farseer, spiritseer and Tau Commander to tank wounds if necessary. The Tau Commander will be jumping back and forth with the reapers and the broadsides, depending on who needs him more. Either ways, he can and will tank shots. BTW, the spiritseer gets Conceal and Destructor/Renewer. That means he can regenerate wounds for the tanking Tau Commander if he needs. Riptide is tough to kill and serpents are a pain in the arse to kill as well. Finally, jetbikes will just hide. Unless wraiths can get into combat with Eldau, they won't necessarily kill them consistently with shooting. Overall, I think this category will favor:
Advantage:Draw
Intangibles: Both generals are skilled and using their primary armies. I'm not sure what Adam's experience is against wraithwing necrons, but I've been playing against a lot of eldar/tau/taudar/eldau lately.
Eldar will have a great chance for First Blood. He's also got the opportunity to get +6 VP's if he can kill all of my AB's. Moreover, I've got no way to stop his psychic powers.
However, what I do have is 3 more additional scoring units than my opponent (6 heavies compared to his 3) and the last say on objectives (I'm going second) with 4 troops in flyers. I also provide a lot more target saturation than my opponent, with 12 threats that are almost equally damaging to his 8-9. I think target prioritization will be a lot tougher for my opponent than it will be for me. For me, I am going to kill his mobility first (wave serpents and jetbikes) and then heavy supports. I wonder which of my units my opponent is probably going to target?
Advantage:Necrons
Overall, I think Adam will be the underdog in this matchup. My army is just too hard to stop and too fast for most armies to contend with. Coupled with the fact that I am going second, I think my opponent is going to need favorable dice in order to pull off the win. Otherwise, I'm confident that I will take it.
Map of terrain. We are playing at a new LGS - Game Kastle in Fremont. There only table available currently has this very funky terrain. We play it that you cannot go onto the top level of the map.
Warlord traits are useless for both parties.
Farseer gets Guide, Prescience and another power I can't really remember.
Spiritseer gets Conceal and Destructor/Renewer, which ends up being pretty useful (Adam would use it to regenerate about 2W on his Tau Commander).
Eldau deployment. Farseer and Spiritseer joins the dark reapers. Tau Commander joins the broadsides.
Kroots and Tau Commander on the Icarus lascannon. 2 jetbikes and wraithguards in serpent stay in reserves. Spiders will be deepstriking in.
Necron deployment. I apologize for the proxies, but I am using some of my land speeders as annihilation barges for game testing purposes.
To the right (about the middle of the table) is my Warlord and his unit along with 3 AB's.
Finally I deploy 1 AB to the far-right. Why, I'm not sure. Should have just deployed it with the rest of my army.
Movement is minimal. Tau Commander goes to join the reapers while giving them Tank-Hunters. Psykers cast their powers.
Now why are the reapers so effective? 7 S8 shots (of which 2 are BS5) of which are twin-linked, re-roll's armour penetration and ignores cover (from the Tau Commander) translates to 3 pens/glances on average (and this is against AV13), which equals 1 dead AB each turn.
First Blood goes to Mortetvie, plus 1 bonus VP for killing one of my heavy supports.
The rest of his shooting manages to put 1W on my Warlord and 1 wraith.
Tau then do their jump assault moves. I believe the Tau Commander goes back to join the broadsides.
Necrons 1
Spoiler:
Wraithstar advances. All my AB's move 12" so will be snap-shooting if they are in range.
Units on my left flank advance as well.
Whatever AB is in range combine to snap-fire at his riptide. I put 2W (3W?...not sure which way my opponent is counting, up or down) on his riptide.
However, arcing does jack.
Wraiths then run.
Eldar 2
Spoiler:
Spiders deepstrike into my deployment zone, behind my AB's.
Adam does the Tau shuffle once again. Appears to be quite a popular dance nowadays.
Spiders would blow up another AB for another +1 VP (up to +2 VP's total now). However, the explosion also claims 2 of his spiders.
Shooting puts another 1W on my Warlord (1W remaining) and insta-kill 1 whole wraith (with the ripide).
To the left, reapers take off 2 HP's from my AB and insta-kills 1 wraith (with the night-spinner).
So far, Eldau shooting has been fairly efficient. I'm glad that he didn't kill his 3rd AB this turn.
The Tau then do the lambada again.
Spiders try to get as far away from my wraiths as possible. Now this is how a veteran plays his spiders. He is forcing me to split up my resources by going backwards after his spiders. This way, there will be a lot less pressure coming down on his main force.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
I get 2 flyers in here, using the cavern and the ruins to give my scythes 4+ cover.
My 3rd scythe comes in on the far-left, once again, using natural terrain to give me 4+ cover against his Icarus.
Wraithstar is within assault distance. However, the mysterious objective claimed by his kroots turn out to be the one that halves your charge distance. Doh!!!
My other D-lord splits off from the unit to continue to apply pressure. AB's move 6" only.
I have no choice but to send my wraiths after his spiders.
My opponent intercepts my left scythe with his Icarus and manages to take off 1 HP.
Combined tesla from my flyer and 1 AB only manages to strip off 1 HP from his serpent.
However, AB's do manage to shoot down the riptide. Arcing also kills 1 broadside shield drone.
1 of my flyers also manage to take off 2 HP's from the other serpent, despite Holo-fields (and in essence, 4+ cover). The other flyer has no LOS to shoot.
I was hoping to take down both serpents, but I can live with taking out the riptide.
Finally, wraiths make their 8" assault against the spiders, killing 5 and breaking the unit.
My Warlord, however, fails his charge due to difficult terrain and the mysterious objective halving my charge distance. 1 wraith takes damage from a LOS Overwatch wound.
Overall, an ok turn for me. I've turned up the pressure big time on my opponent. Now let's see how he responds.
So as not to overload p. 1 with too many pictures (for all those mobile viewers), I'm going to conclude the battle report on p. 2.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2013/08/17 16:12:35
Holy Annihilation barges, Batman! Good thing he didn't ally in a Land Raider!
Really looking forward to this one. I usually bet on Jy2, but I honestly think the A. Barge spam isn't as balanced as it should be... personally I'd drop 2 for another Scythe, or wraiths, or something!
Either way it should be brutal!
2013/08/15 16:46:43
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
jifel wrote: Holy Annihilation barges, Batman! Good thing he didn't ally in a Land Raider!
Really looking forward to this one. I usually bet on Jy2, but I honestly think the A. Barge spam isn't as balanced as it should be... personally I'd drop 2 for another Scythe, or wraiths, or something!
Either way it should be brutal!
My other "brutal" necron list would have been 3 AB's and 18 wraiths. Both would have been a tough matchup.
BTW, not too concerned about LR's unless if he was spamming it. Even then, I think I can easily beat such a RPS list. After all, they're going to have to get out eventually.
djones520 wrote: 6 barges will be brutal. 3 give me fits, I'd probably just refuse this game (in a non-tourney setting).
Yeah, I wouldn't run this in casual games. Heck, I don't even run my wraithwing necrons anymore in casual games. They are a "only-on-demand" type of army, where I will break them out for tournament practice games only on request by my opponents.
Huh, the TauDar list seems thin for 1999
Why didn't you both go Double Force Org? Seems to be an advantage I guess.
I gotta vote crons. 6 ABs and 4 NS will murder the heck outta that army at 24 inches, plus, the Taudar in my opinion, are light on anti-armor.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2013/08/15 21:52:54
Subject: Re:2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
Jy2, I'm curious, I see you pretty much always have a Res Orb on your Destroyer Lords. Is the extra chance to get back up after dying, in your opinion, that invaluable that you always find the points to fit that in? Or is it more a luxury that you like to take when there are a few points left over (since Necrons don't have a whole lot of wargear they can use to eat points).
2013/08/15 22:12:24
Subject: Re:2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
iGuy91 wrote: Huh, the TauDar list seems thin for 1999
Why didn't you both go Double Force Org? Seems to be an advantage I guess.
I gotta vote crons. 6 ABs and 4 NS will murder the heck outta that army at 24 inches, plus, the Taudar in my opinion, are light on anti-armor.
Don't under-estimate his list. It might look "thin" but it's actually got all the tools to take on most army builds. I made the mistake of under-estimating a similar build once and got my a$$ handed back to me. It's a list that relies on the synergy of the 2 allies and it's got some nasty firepower. There's a reason why he was able to win the Golden Throne. His list has got all the tools to do so and his generalship of the list was what put it over the top.
With that said, I'm no slouch with my crons either. Coming into the game, I felt he was the underdog.
Double-FOC is a playstyle choice. Not everyone will take advantage of it and not every army can. Because to do so would require a "tax" of 2 mandatory HQ's and 4 troops. Mostly though, I think my opponent is comfortable with his list as is, considering the practice he has been getting with it. As for me, I like to experiment. This tournament gave me the chance to test out how good double-FOC could be. It's just my personal playstyle preference to try out different things, and double-FOC is certainly something I've never tried before.
Again, don't under-estimate his anti-armor. His mini-deathstar dark reaper unit puts out enough firepower to reliably kill 1 AB a turn. With this being Big Guns, I don't really expect my AB's to survive (maybe 1 or 2), though I do expect to win on last-turn objectives-grab by my flyers.
TehCheator wrote: Jy2, I'm curious, I see you pretty much always have a Res Orb on your Destroyer Lords. Is the extra chance to get back up after dying, in your opinion, that invaluable that you always find the points to fit that in? Or is it more a luxury that you like to take when there are a few points left over (since Necrons don't have a whole lot of wargear they can use to eat points).
To me, I see the Re Orbs as a necessity. I would rather drop 1 wraith in order to keep the RO if possible. There's been numerous times where the wargear has won me the game. It is just that good. At the very least, I will get it for my Warlord and not my normal D-lord, but that usually happens at lower-points games. Also, psychologically, it is a morale-breaker for my opponents whenever they see my Warlord getting back up again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/15 22:13:39
jy2 wrote: To me, I see the Re Orbs as a necessity. I would rather drop 1 wraith in order to keep the RO if possible. There's been numerous times where the wargear has won me the game. It is just that good. At the very least, I will get it for my Warlord and not my normal D-lord, but that usually happens at lower-points games. Also, psychologically, it is a morale-breaker for my opponents whenever they see my Warlord getting back up again.
Good to know. I'm looking at finally assembling all the Wraiths I have (I was able to get a bunch on sale a while back) and am really interested in this style list. Another question I have is how necessary / effective are the Whip Coils. With the FAQ making them only apply at the beginning of the Fight Sub-Phase I've had trouble making them do a whole lot. If they aren't in the front then they don't make it in to B2B at the start of combat, but if they are then they just get shot down first. Maybe I'm just bad at positioning and need to do a better job of putting them in the back, then leapfrogging them to the front before a charge.
2013/08/15 22:49:12
Subject: Re:2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
Again, don't under-estimate his anti-armor. His mini-deathstar dark reaper unit puts out enough firepower to reliably kill 1 AB a turn. With this being Big Guns, I don't really expect my AB's to survive (maybe 1 or 2), though I do expect to win on last-turn objectives-grab by my flyers.
I may be missing something in regards to the firepower they put out. Wont you just simply be able to kill them off turn 2, maybe losing a barge in the process via volume of saves? I guess ive never seen Reapers do much more than die when my friends play them since I know they are quite good at what they do.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/15 22:49:33
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2013/08/15 23:05:42
Subject: Re:2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
iGuy91 wrote: I may be missing something in regards to the firepower they put out. Wont you just simply be able to kill them off turn 2, maybe losing a barge in the process via volume of saves? I guess ive never seen Reapers do much more than die when my friends play them since I know they are quite good at what they do.
Most likely the Tau Commander joins the squad, who then sit on the ILC behind the Aegis, with the commander at the front. So most of the wounds are taken by the T5 guy with a 2+ save, 4+ Cover, and he can LOS onto the shield drones if necessary. Then that guy gives them rerolls to hit and Tank Hunter / Monster Hunter.
Edit: That said, if you can get 6 Anni Barges in range of them you can probably do a number on them, though it shouldn't be hard for him to deploy them in such a way that you can't get them all in range on turn 1.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/15 23:07:51
2013/08/15 23:29:18
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
Crons take this all day every day. I've had no issue with eldar using my necrons and imagine JY2 won't either(facetious much?:p). Should be a good one though! As usual can't wait to see the outcome JY2.
2013/08/16 00:10:55
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
I love me some Eldar, but after looking at the lists, I've gotta say Crons.
I may be a bit jaded in this, since my Eldar just got face stomped by an Armor Cron list, but the one trick pony that the Eldar is rocking won't be enough to handle the Barges and Flyers. The Eldar have one unit that they can rely on to destroy 1 AB/Flyer a turn, and enough concentrated fire power will drop that unit before they get half the cron vehicles down.. The Warp Spiders will probably account for another one, but then get vaporised.
Crons will walk away from this the victors.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2013/08/16 00:29:11
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
The Eldar list certainly is unusual, but not without power. Nevertheless, assuming no massive discrepancy in the favor of the Dice Gods, I think jy2 has this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/16 04:23:02
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
2013/08/16 01:32:12
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
Nightspinner will insta-kill wraiths. Broadsides, Tau commander, Riptide and guided Warp Spiders will kill all the Necron flyers. Spiriitseer will give Dark Reapers a 2+ save. I even expect one barge to shoot another barge in the back when the Farseer casts Puppet Master on it.
Eldar all the way.
2013/08/16 03:16:38
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
I think Crons win BIG. That Eldar list, while having a lot of tools, seems a bit weak in the troops department. I imagine JY2 will have little problem destroying all the troops. I also dont think the Eldar list has the RoF to deal with 2 Wraith deathstars while simultaneously damaging the Barges. 10 Tesla Destructors average a ton of Str. 7 hits and realistically only the Broadsides/Reapers/Riptide will be able to reliably damage them. I think having utility is great, but I've noticed in the past that when two players of similar skill are matched up the two biggest factors tend to be luck and the list composition. The Necron list, IMO, is far better constructed, considering that ABs are good against almost all targets.
Out of all the possibilities with double force org, I think that 6 ABs is by far the scariest proposition due to how absurdly cheap they are.
Despite all that, i'm rooting for the Eldau!
Bee beep boo baap
2013/08/16 05:03:19
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
Its one barge dead per turn for sure so (after reading the bat reps Jy2 posted, it helps trust me!) I would imagine barges flat out and wraiths move and run for first two turns I would imagine 3 barges down by the time they are in range and its Jims turn (what was the deployment type Jim?).
With the cover save and 2+ armour and shield drones I can see that commander tanking a LOT of saves, plus their ability to insta gib (and as mentioned the NS's) the wraiths I can see it being a harsh game for the crons!. I think it depends on your saves for the dlords, how well they can tank the ap3 shots, the two shot lascannons will hurt (still dont think you can do this though, but think your opponent does play that he can).
I am suprised he hasnt put more reapers on though
40kGlobal AOA member, regular of Overlords podcast club and 4tk gaming store. Blogger @ http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/ 06/2013: 1st at War of the Roses ETC warm up.
08/213: 3rd place double teams at 4tk
09/2013: 7th place, best daemon and non eldar/tau army at Northern Warlords GT
10/2013: 3rd/4th at Battlefield Birmingham
11/2013: 5th at GT heat 3
11/2013: 5th COG 2k at 4tk
01/2014: 34th at Caledonian
03/2014: 3rd GT Final
2013/08/16 05:21:53
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
MarkyMark wrote: Its one barge dead per turn for sure so (after reading the bat reps Jy2 posted, it helps trust me!) I would imagine barges flat out and wraiths move and run for first two turns I would imagine 3 barges down by the time they are in range and its Jims turn (what was the deployment type Jim?).
With the cover save and 2+ armour and shield drones I can see that commander tanking a LOT of saves, plus their ability to insta gib (and as mentioned the NS's) the wraiths I can see it being a harsh game for the crons!. I think it depends on your saves for the dlords, how well they can tank the ap3 shots, the two shot lascannons will hurt (still dont think you can do this though, but think your opponent does play that he can).
I am suprised he hasnt put more reapers on though
Deployment is Dawn of War.
I think he is trying to make his list more balanced with multiple threats. Hence, he didn't overdo it with the Dark Reapers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LValx wrote: I think Crons win BIG. That Eldar list, while having a lot of tools, seems a bit weak in the troops department. I imagine JY2 will have little problem destroying all the troops. I also dont think the Eldar list has the RoF to deal with 2 Wraith deathstars while simultaneously damaging the Barges. 10 Tesla Destructors average a ton of Str. 7 hits and realistically only the Broadsides/Reapers/Riptide will be able to reliably damage them. I think having utility is great, but I've noticed in the past that when two players of similar skill are matched up the two biggest factors tend to be luck and the list composition. The Necron list, IMO, is far better constructed, considering that ABs are good against almost all targets.
Out of all the possibilities with double force org, I think that 6 ABs is by far the scariest proposition due to how absurdly cheap they are.
Despite all that, i'm rooting for the Eldau!
My thoughts exactly.....except for the rooting part. I live to crush eldar, unless, of course, I'm the one running eldar.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/16 05:27:21
I know spam are amazing and have looked into them alot since I am always asking for advice with them.
However, I dont pay much attention to tactical lists because I never seen a good player use one, i see alot of people craft lists trying to make combos of things but most doesn't work out.
I took some time and looked at his list and his got so many threats that can deal with infantry and tank. I can see why this list can be so brutal, the fire power is insane.
2013/08/16 09:14:07
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
I can't claim to understand all the factors of this matchup, but the fact that you are fielding 6 units that give up killpoints leads me to believe that the Eldau player can just use a strategy of winning on secondaries and those killpoints if his scoring units are badly harmed. Voting for the Eldau
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/16 12:02:02
Paradigm wrote: The key to being able to enjoy the game in real life and also be a member of this online community is to know where you draw the line. What someone online on the other side of the world that you've never met says should never deter you from taking a unit for being either weak or OP. The community is a great place to come for tactics advice, and there is a lot of very sound opinions and idea out there, but at the end of the day, play the game how you want to... Don't worry about the hordes of Dakka descending on your gaming club to arrest you for taking one heldrake or not using a screamerstar. Knowing the standard opinion (and that's all it is) on what is good/bad and conforming to that opinion religiously are two entirely separate things.
2013/08/16 14:25:45
Subject: Re:2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons (Turn 2 updated
jy2 wrote: To me, I see the Re Orbs as a necessity. I would rather drop 1 wraith in order to keep the RO if possible. There's been numerous times where the wargear has won me the game. It is just that good. At the very least, I will get it for my Warlord and not my normal D-lord, but that usually happens at lower-points games. Also, psychologically, it is a morale-breaker for my opponents whenever they see my Warlord getting back up again.
Good to know. I'm looking at finally assembling all the Wraiths I have (I was able to get a bunch on sale a while back) and am really interested in this style list. Another question I have is how necessary / effective are the Whip Coils. With the FAQ making them only apply at the beginning of the Fight Sub-Phase I've had trouble making them do a whole lot. If they aren't in the front then they don't make it in to B2B at the start of combat, but if they are then they just get shot down first. Maybe I'm just bad at positioning and need to do a better job of putting them in the back, then leapfrogging them to the front before a charge.
Currently, I don't recommend putting more than 2 whip coils on a unit of 6. You just don't get to use them that much anymore with all the changes. Put them in front and they die to LOS from your D-lord. Put them in the rear and they won't be able to use it on the crucial 1st turn of charging. Depending on points (such as in this game), it's actually ok to not run them. Usually, I try to put 1 or 2 whips on my unit if I have spare points.
Again, don't under-estimate his anti-armor. His mini-deathstar dark reaper unit puts out enough firepower to reliably kill 1 AB a turn. With this being Big Guns, I don't really expect my AB's to survive (maybe 1 or 2), though I do expect to win on last-turn objectives-grab by my flyers.
I may be missing something in regards to the firepower they put out. Wont you just simply be able to kill them off turn 2, maybe losing a barge in the process via volume of saves? I guess ive never seen Reapers do much more than die when my friends play them since I know they are quite good at what they do.
No, the DR's are quite durable with 2+ cover from Conceal. They also have 3 potential tanking characters and 2 drones to take up shots (although my teslas would insta-gib his psykers). Finally, he will be using terrain to deny LOS for some of my barges to his DR unit. Fortunately for eldar, DR nowadays are slow & purposeful so can move and shoot.
But mainly, my philosophy is this. If something is too hard to kill, then ignore it and go after easier kills. In other words, killing his mini-deathstar is inefficient, not with so many other targets around. Go after his mobility and easier-to-kill units first and let the wraiths handle his mini-deathstar in assault. That's the most efficient way to kill them IMO.
iGuy91 wrote: I may be missing something in regards to the firepower they put out. Wont you just simply be able to kill them off turn 2, maybe losing a barge in the process via volume of saves? I guess ive never seen Reapers do much more than die when my friends play them since I know they are quite good at what they do.
Most likely the Tau Commander joins the squad, who then sit on the ILC behind the Aegis, with the commander at the front. So most of the wounds are taken by the T5 guy with a 2+ save, 4+ Cover, and he can LOS onto the shield drones if necessary. Then that guy gives them rerolls to hit and Tank Hunter / Monster Hunter.
Edit: That said, if you can get 6 Anni Barges in range of them you can probably do a number on them, though it shouldn't be hard for him to deploy them in such a way that you can't get them all in range on turn 1.
Just a slight correction. The entire unit is getting 2+ cover behind the Aegis thanks to Conceal.
Marthike wrote: I see this as a spam list vs a tactical list.
I know spam are amazing and have looked into them alot since I am always asking for advice with them.
However, I dont pay much attention to tactical lists because I never seen a good player use one, i see alot of people craft lists trying to make combos of things but most doesn't work out.
I took some time and looked at his list and his got so many threats that can deal with infantry and tank. I can see why this list can be so brutal, the fire power is insane.
Both can be good. Spam-lists have the bonus of redundancy but tactical lists tend to be more synergistic. Some of the best players in our area - Reecius, Janthkin and Mortetvie to name a few - run non-spam, tactical, finesse lists that relies mainly on synergy and brutal combos. I tend to run more spammy lists, at least for my competitive builds, because certain necron units are just so damn unbelievably good. Either can be successful as long as you know to run it properly.
But necrons are still necrons....and troops in flyer transports that can move 36" is soooooo damn good it's almost criminal.
Fikol wrote: I think it would come to the board setup and LOS / LOS blocks... I think after that you can forsee who will win
Not just board setup, but you have to have the mobility to take advantage of the terrain on the board. Overall, few armies can take advantage of terrain like necrons can, even though they don't really rely on cover
And yeah, there is LOS-blocking terrain here.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/16 14:54:48
It says eldar turn 1, that the commander jump packs to join the broadsides. Can he do that? I thought I.C.s could only join/leave units in the movement phase? Also how does the assault move interact with units that dont have it (like the dark reapers and tau commander).
Armies: Crimson Fists, Orks, Eldar
2013/08/16 20:30:39
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons (Turn 2 updated
CaptainJay wrote: It says eldar turn 1, that the commander jump packs to join the broadsides. Can he do that? I thought I.C.s could only join/leave units in the movement phase? Also how does the assault move interact with units that dont have it (like the dark reapers and tau commander).
I believe your right, unless the Tau have a special rule about that (it seems their commanders can take a million special rules).
Full Frontal Nerdity
2013/08/16 20:48:15
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons (Turn 2 updated
CaptainJay wrote: It says eldar turn 1, that the commander jump packs to join the broadsides. Can he do that? I thought I.C.s could only join/leave units in the movement phase? Also how does the assault move interact with units that dont have it (like the dark reapers and tau commander).
I believe your right, unless the Tau have a special rule about that (it seems their commanders can take a million special rules).
It is likely a simple mistake (commander joining in turn 2 but listed as joining turn 1; or starting joined to one and then joining the other), if he did join during the assault move, its actually illegal, no such Tau commander shenanigans (but wow that would be a good one!).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/16 20:48:48
2013/08/16 21:42:52
Subject: Re:2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons (Turn 2 updated
I really think those warp spiders are going to be the unsung heroes of this game. Coming down to pop the back of the a-barge is good but what they have done is forced necron's hand. Necrons was forced to either keep charging with the wraiths and let the spiders take out another a-barge or turn the a-barge to shoot the spiders (where they would die to broadsides next turn) or kill the spiders with the wraiths. Necrons elected to send the wraiths to kill the spiders which is now going to take the wraiths out of combat for a turn or two. More importantly, d-lord is all alone now, so he can't go los shenanigans. This is going to give taudar a turn to kill the closer wraiths, and hopefully the two d-lords. If they can manage that on turn three, their turn 4 can be focused on killing the back unit of wraiths. Once the wraiths are gone taudar can start moving out to claim objectives.
I think the better line of play would have been to keep sending both units of wraiths at the taudar lines and turn around the a-barges to kill the spiders. If wraiths make it to taudar's reapers or broadsides necrons pretty much wins the game. You lose two a-barges but you gain the potential of the wraiths wiping out the taudar castle.
2013/08/16 21:50:25
Subject: 2K Golden Throne Reigning Champ vs Ex-Champ - Mortetvie's Eldar/Tau vs Jy2's Necrons
Fikol wrote: I think it would come to the board setup and LOS / LOS blocks... I think after that you can forsee who will win
Just throwing my 2 cents in since this is a game I played and quoting the above for truth =). I don't think I have ever seen a table with such ridiculous terrain and the huge LOS blocking pillars that were actually double or triple the height of a Wraithknight! This gave Jim a lot of places to hide his Wraiths and units which is very bad for an otherwise shooty army such as mine =(. To reiterate, no tournament organizer would ever have a table like the one we played on but this was the only gaming store open at the time Jim and I could get our game in so we didn't really have a choice.
Other than the terrain, I did make some very stupid and critical mistakes in the name of science and funsies which I would not do in an actual tournament game but as to not ruin any surprises, I'll save such commentary until after the battle report is finished being posted =).
As an aside, Jim forgot to mention in his turn 2 commentary that my Riptide got a good hit with a Nova-charged Ion Accelerator and hit all 3 of his Barges in the middle and got 3 penetrating hits but Jim made all 3 of his Jink saves rolling 3 6s, insanity! Also, his Wraiths needed at least a 9" charge on my spiders (not a big difference) but he rolled something like a 10 lol; darn terrain ignoring wraiths rolling good for their charge moves! It was pretty hilarious watching his other Wraith unit fail the charge, though.
So yeah, I'll leave the rest of my commentary until after the report is finished but I will say that none of Jim's Barges survived to the end of the game...=)
Also, regarding the Tau Commander jump, I moved in the assault phase but did not join the Broadsides. That was a "typo" on Jim's part, I moved the Commander closer to the Icarus (which happened to be near the Broadsides) so next turn I can hopefully move him or a member of the unit to man the Icarus to hopefully shoot down some incoming NightScythes.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2013/08/16 22:08:24
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