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Hi, my name is RiTides and I'm a Restic Knight.

It started out innocently enough. Everyone was doing it, so why shouldn't I? I didn't even have to put my name out there, just quietly added onto someone else's Kickstarter pledge for a small supply of someting called PVC, also known as "restic"...

Soon, I was obsessively watching other crowdfunding campaigns promising great things in the material. Sight unseen, I am ashamed to admit, I put in my own pledge for a larger dose. And I knew then, that I needed help.

But I couldn't admit to it to others just yet. I started out on my own, by ridding myself of all but the most innocent items in the substance. But no matter what I tried, I kept finding myself drawn to the screen, staring hungrily at the substance of my desire, finger hovering over the "pledge" button. One small click is all it would take.

I knew then that I could not break the addiciton on my own strength. I needed to admit publicly that I had a problem, and face it with the help of others fighting the same addiction. So, here I am. Inspired by my mentor, Piston Honda, who came forward first:

 Piston Honda wrote:
We need to create a group where we can discuss our horrors of such material.

We can call ourselves Restic Knights, in honor of the new horror that is to come.

I ask you, brothers and sisters, to hold me accountable. I will post in this thread whenever I am tempted to spend money, sight unseen, on restic again. It goes by many names: PVC, sprueless plastic... but that is why I need help. Maybe, I'll be innocently browsing a Kickstarter, and not realizing I'm one small click away from starting down that same long, dark, mold-line-ridden road again.

Stand with me. Remind me of the soft detail, the difficulty of cleaning, the mis-shapen parts. Don't let me give in to temptation. In return, I promise to stand with you, and hold you accountable, if you will only come forward and admit that you have a problem, that you belong with us.

My name is RiTides, and I am a Restic Knight.

Here's the trick, you send it to a commission painter and have them assemble it for a minor additional charge.

Totally see no problem with restic. It think its a great product, and is easy to put together using the simple above technique.

My name is Whalemusic and I'm a Restic pusher.

Sedition Wars Pledge: Buy All the Things!
Relic Knights Pledge: Buy Even more of the Things!!

Hi, my name is Sinful Hero and I'm a restic consumer. B-b-b-but I don't have an addiction; I can quit anytime! Look at Bones! Bones is restic, right?!

I stand to be recognized.

I too have have fallen prey to the halfbreed menace, not resin nor proper plastic. Cleaning mold lines from models I don't even like, painting details onto models that should have already had them, spending my time and sweat in addition to my money to get a decent looking model.

Recently, I hit rock bottom. Only it didn't start recently, it was so long ago that it feels like it happened to a different person. But that's how it gets you. You pledge for Relic Knights thinking "Hey, Deke has done some really good stuff in the past, so this will turn out great!" I excitedly put down 200$ on concept art and renders, and dreamed of the sweet models to come. Time passed, and I forgot the details of the program, holding onto a vague sweet dream of things to come, like a child dreams of Christmas, half past and half future.
Somewhere along the line I recall hearing that the material would be some sort of plastic, a high quality PVC. That should have been my wakeup call, a siren telling me something was wrong, but hey, PP makes models out of that stuff, and I don't hate every Skinwalker or Warpwolf I own. But I wasn't thinking. How much detail does the Feral really have? How many times have I fixed a broken Skinwalker halberd? How well will that scale down to a delicate 28mm model? How much more practice does PP even have compared to a start up company used to metals?

Then I allowed myself to forget again. Completed my masters, had a kid, wrote papers; life went on. Never questioned the timing of my investment, because, hey, its Kickstarter right? Delays always happen, and you get stuff when you get it. Periodically I would refresh the thread for some new renders and get a little excited, but time passed on my interest free loan.

Until the day. Big unveiling of actual production things! Up close and detailed! Christmas morning has arrived! Tearing into presents gift wrapped in shiny spoiler tags my eyes bulged with excitement, then narrowed in anger. What was this I was looking at? Soft, bland models, lacking intricate details or any real relief. Were these really based on the lovely renders I had seen months before, or had I merely lionized the quality of the digital sculpts over the months?

Clicking back through the thread I found the proper renders and found that no, it was not my imagination: the productions models were to the renders as a FF7 character is to a Pixar character.

That is when it hit me: I had spent a significant amount of money backing a project which had produced something I wouldn't even buy for conversions. Not only that, but now that it had been seen, would anyone want to buy the models from me, models that require a great deal of painting skill to look good? I began to realize that I might well be lucky to get back half of my investment if I sold them all new in box the moment they arrived.
Then the deeper realization sunk in: This was not the only thing I had wanted to buy in the last two years with discretionary hobby funds. Thinking of the painting skill required to add back small details entirely lacking from the models, it dawned on my that I could have bought a proper airbrush for myself two bloody years ago had I simply avoided this project. I had effectively spent 200$ to spend two years not having what I want, and being lucky to have 100$ at the end of it.

But this is good. The total wreck of a project has taught me a lesson a more gentle disappointment may not have, and that lesson is "Trust nothing not resin, not metal nor HPS." For now when I see a project promising great models with lovely concept art and beautiful renders I need only look within to the anger and disappointment boiling within my belly, and know that without a firm attachment to proper materials, all those promises will turn to ash in my mouth. I hold onto this ball of anger, for though it burns me and all it touches, the scars are a reminder not fall for the sweet words that led me to the pyre in the first place.

And with this flame I shall purge the false material from the Earth, and woe betide any that should through ignorance or malice bring its vile, globulous form back amongst mankind, for they shall be cleansed in the flames of righteous fury.

My name is Wehrkind, and I am a Restic Knight.

I didnt know it until today when I found this forlorn thread but I am a restic addict as well and I need help.

I got talked into relic knights with a friend! we went halfzies on a 2 faction deal, and as the kickstarter went on, I succumbed to many a add on...sigh...

now I fear I may have to look into melting these down and casting them for new pvc pipes for a new bathroom I am going to add on to my house this summer....

I fear to ask but how many other of my kick starter addictions are PVC and I did not know?1?!?!

I was actually going to suggest "Knights Plastic" for the name of our group.

Especially as we're now a group of brothers, banding together to hunt down The Restic.

To prevent others from wishing to join our sad circle...

So, who is the Grand Master of the Knights Plastic, sometimes known as the Restic Knights by the general populace?

And I petition that he lead the first campaign to determine if RESTIC is hiding out in the following Kickstarters:

DRAKERYS
FALLEN FRONTIERS

To arms, Brother-Knights!

Help me, my Restic Knight brothers, for I have sinned!



For I am a believer and follower of the East Texas model pushers that are Reaper Miniatures, and I cannot help myself. For my shame and calamity is complete! I hath pledged mightily in their first KS offering Bones I: The Boning, and dipped deeply into my wallet where I found the VISA and my dignity. Woe onto me as I added add-on after add-on. The tempestuous Reaper Sophie, smiling and mocking my lack of will as I entered the digits to my pledge. I wailed in anguish as delay after delay plagued their delivery, like the frogs in Egypt and the freckles on a ginger. I watched with baited breath as the Reaper shipment counter whirled faster than the Olson Twins legality website ever did. As I received my wondrous bounty, further woe and consternation benighted me, for I was forced to move from the warm bosom of Southern Texas to the cold heart of Northern Illinois. My hobby supplies, nay my very existence was packed away in so many boxes in a storage facility to be forgotten, like a virginity pledge on prom night. And I moved away from my D&D group, where the minis were to be used and loved and adored...

As I finally unpacked my forgotten treasures and feasted my eyes upon the horde of unpainted geek-dom, the evil Reaper Sophie succubus returned with promises of new PVC offerings, too tempting to dismiss! Bones II: Bone Harder latched its clutches into my soul and paypal account like that weird kid from summer camp. I succumbed to its calling and surrendered my money.

And now I wait for new treasures to behold, having not painted my first box of goodness and plastic, yet.

Help me brothers. Prevent me from buying Bones III: Bone Deeper, until I at least paint the first batch of plastic or, at the very least, find a new gaming group to share my bounty.

Hi, Sinful Hero, Wehrkind, Theorius, kronk. Thanks for sharing.

To Alpharius- As you say, we are a circle here, with no head and no foot. We are made strong by this fact, stronger than if there were only one to lead us.

To whalemusic- Only by admitting that we have a problem, can we begin on the road to recovery. You push the restic menace onto your commission painter with no thought of his own well-being? Of the cuts in his fingers? Of the loss of his hair as he tears it out in frustration?

There is no judgement here, only recovering addicts starting out on the road to recovery. But I ask that you help and not hinder others on their journey out of addiction.

That addiction has taken many -- different -- forms, but it has one thing in common- the continual need to acquire more of the very thing that ails us.

Everyone has a different story to share. I only ask that they acknowledge our values here, and admit that they have a problem, in order to be welcomed into our brother and sisterhood.

Other people? Commission painters are people? I thought they were highly trained painting automatons who turned paypal funds into colors on inferior plastic like minis. OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!!!!

With a nod of acknowledgement to those seated at this malformed almost-round table, I stand.

My loss is not the greatest and perhaps I've not yet fully accepted it as I stumble through the stages of denial, holding out hope that, in hand, I may not consider it a loss at all. After all, if true, I will have gotten what I wanted would I not? Cool models made from cool concept artwork or matching those models shown during beguiling campaigns full of promise. Only now and only if I am honest with myself do I recognize the true content contained in the long, glamorous solicitations of my coin: pretty pictures and pretty words, nothing more.

The fault is mine for taking leave of reason that I should fall as many of you have for such fleeting beauty. Like RiTides, my lust for miniatures even at the word "restic" falters but does not abate and eyes wander to shiny, pleasing forms. Like Wehrkind, my patience -- and patient we have been, all of us, to forgo ourselves then until now -- is rewarded not with joy, not with the elation that required a deposit and that was subsidized with Pledge Managers, but instead is repaid with trepidation that would turn remorseful had I no deceit left in me.

Long have I championed plastic. No longer can I do so with clear conscience as I may unknowingly set an innocent upon this restic path. To those that would do so I caution this: full objective disclosure is the only way to absolution.

I am Dentry the Half-Hearted (or maybe it's a whole heart that didn't come out in production), and I am... unwell.

 whalemusic360 wrote:
Other people? Commission painters are people? I thought they were highly trained painting automatons who turned paypal funds into colors on inferior plastic like minis. OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!!!!

Oh Lord, think of the children!

I am not yet one of you my brothers, I can barely stand in front of such an auspicious circle. Yet, I can see the threat rising. My pledge for the dark arts of CMoN and Soda Pop draws close, and I fear for my soul, my sanity, my thumbs after trimming the mould lines of Paazuzu. Please, accept me in advance, I shall not falter. All my days I shall atone for my transgression.

All are welcome!

But do lot me misled - for we will be led!

Despite what Brother RhodeIslandTides says, we shall be led indeed...

Hi Dentry, Zond. Thanks for sharing. Don't worry, we're all in different stages on our road to recovery, and by sharing we help one another along the way.

Whalemusic, I see you have seen the error of your ways, but fear not! We have all experienced that same sickening moment, and it's why we're here together, helping one another recover and right the wrongs we've done to ourselves and others in the name of restic.

Alpharius, your zeal is admirable, brother. But we have yet to hear your story. What has brought you to our circle of recovery?

Sinful Hero, you're right, and that's why we're here. For our errors in judgement do not affect us alone. There are others who fall victim, and worst of all, some of them are helpless to do anything about it:



You can't even see the pain on their faces. Why, you ask? Because of that which has formerly enslaved us, that which has brought us here: PVC plastic aka "restic"... our former drug of choice.

Ugh, that looks horrible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:

You can't even see the pain on their faces.

LO-mother fething-L!

Well, since Alpharius keeps insisting that the Knights be led, I hereby nominate:

R(hode)i(sland)Tides

to be our camp leader. The one who doesn't want it, should be the one to get it.

RhodeIslandTides cannot be our leader - I'm a bit surprised he's actually in our group.

He's akin to our Loki - the Norse trickster, not the upstanding Dakkanaught - an OK ally but someone to keep a wary eye on.

His Kickstarter behavior and commentary has a bit too much schadenfreude in it to be a true leader for the Knights Plastic.

In short - motion DENIED.

 Alpharius wrote:
RhodeIslandTides cannot be our leader - I'm a bit surprised he's actually in our group.

He's akin to our Loki - the Norse trickster, not the upstanding Dakkanaught - an OK ally but someone to keep a wary eye on.

His Kickstarter behavior and commentary has a bit too much schadenfreude in it to be a true leader for the Knights Plastic.

In short - motion DENIED.

Well then, who do you nominate?

I vote for RiTides-as-Alpharius, because in the end aren't we all Alpharius? Doesn't that makes this all our plan?

That said I'm not fit to join such a group, as my experiences do not reach the same depths. My standards may be lower, my luck better or my denial deeper, but the monster has not yet snapped shut around me. I need to confront my game-buying addiction! as mountains of polystyrene and metal surround me in a house rapidly becoming a candidate for Hoarders, but that seems more generalized that you brave "Styrene Shevaliers."

So to paraphrase the words of the immortal H. Simpson: "And if there's time we'll get to my game addiction...but they won't be any time"

Fething restic should rest in pieces that are not alluringly figure shaped.

Let not our alliance against this menace disintegrate before it even begins, brothers! Who it is that leads us matters not- it is that which we stand against.

There is only one trickster here, and his name is PVC:



I have atoned for my sins by returning to that which first nurtured me in my wargaming infancy- that resin of purest form, that which is cast by hand. Let me not falter now that I have begun on this new path!

The path of HIPS is another which may lead to freedom from this menace. Or a return to the ancient past, that which was forged in metal, when plastic was but a vision of a strange, unknown future. We know better now, brothers, let us not be tricked again!

You don't have to have already suffered the unholy touch of restic personally - you merely have to wish that no one else need suffer restic's horrors again!

Too true, brother Alpharius- all are welcome here. Addicts need those around them to be supportive in their recovery, not enablers of that which caused their downfall.

But for those of us who have fallen victim to this substance, I ask that you stand and be recognized. Acceptance is the first step, of the many to come... let not denial and false hope keep you silent, for only together can we overcome.

 RiTides wrote:
Let not our alliance against this menace disintegrate before it even begins, brothers! Who it is that leads us matters not- it is that which we stand against.

There is only one trickster here, and his name is PVC:



I have atoned for my sins by returning to that which first nurtured me in my wargaming infancy- that resin of purest form, that which is cast by hand. Let me not falter now that I have begun on this new path!

The path of HIPS is another which may lead to freedom from this menace. Or a return to the ancient past, that which was forged in metal, when plastic was but a vision of a strange, unknown future. We know better now, brothers, let us not be tricked again!

\

I have never seen a monstrosity such as that. I have only dipped my toes into some PVC stuff trying to stick to metal (Infinity ect), but from what I have got I have never got something like that. I would say have mercy on its soul but a

figure/abominations like that is clearly built without a soul. On a side note, is DUST stuff made out of PVC? I like all the stuff I have got from them so far.

Known offenders so far-
Reaper Bones(but it's sold cheap, and does pretty well for large models)
Relic Knights(a lot is still unknown at this time)
Sedition Wars(can't ever remember which wave was the bad one)
Mantic(their elf line seems to be a top offender)

Are there any others out there at this time?

Would it be possible for the "Restic Knights" that are scarred by the stuff to post stuff that is PVC safe (ie PVC that isn't done badly) vs the PVC offenders (PVC of the "damned")? I already see some doomed PVC stuff is being listed.

Wrath of Kings is going to use restic for some of its miniatures, no?

Ah, but therein lies the rub, brothers.

You might tell yourself "I'm just going to take a small taste, what's the harm?"

You'll start out with a perfectly acceptable dire troll from Privateer Press, or a chibi miniature from Super Dungeon Explore.

Then, you'll tell yourself- "It must work fine for normal 28mm miniatures, right? I could make a whole army of these! For so cheap!"

...and you're hooked.

......and you're left, scattered all around you in your basement, with no friends left to comfort you, with this:

 RiTides wrote:
......and you're left, scattered all around you in your basement, with no friends left to comfort you, with this:

To be fair, the PVC Paladin (Left) looks better than the Polystrene Man at Arms (Right)... which is more bad sculpt than material.

Sinful - Most of Mantic's elf range suffers from sculpts that aren't popular, rather than material issues (the troops are all polystyrene). Deadzone, Dreadball, and Kings of War Kickstarter models are generally where the PVC stuff lays.

You saw nothing! I was in the middle of my editing magic! *Waves hands*

You are right, sister Cyporiean, even the best material cannot make up for a poor sculpt, as the image above so clearly illustrates.

But, PVC can take a beautiful sculpt and make it look as bad, or even worse... borrowing from the Relic Knights (not to be confused with our gathering here) thread:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
I have to say, looking at the renders that HecM delivered, versus how they came out is infuriating.

Marie Clause as she should be...

Spoiler:

And the grim reality.

Spoiler:

Even looking at the painted model, notice how the details on the back of her legs are completely gone. Ditto on the pin-striping on her suit.

Spoiler:

Everywhere one looks, detail has disappeared, proportions look like crap, ach. And I got her as a LE choice!