A response I had from GW Investor Relations - thought someone might get a kick out of it.

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**Baragash**

I was amused by this quote made today in relation to a different industry and it's relevance:

Meanwhile Justin King, the former chief executive of Sainsbury's, said football was running a business plan that let the supporters down.

"Any business that thinks it can simply rely upon the loyalty of its customers, regardless of how they treat them, in the end will fail," King said.

"Because if you ever start acting in a way that assumes that your customer will keep coming regardless of what you do to them then you'll start doing things that actually are not in your customers' interests."

King, who retired in July this year after 10 years as head of Sainsbury's, believes there is more choice available to football fans when it comes to attending matches than some clubs appreciate.

You could change 3 words in that entire quote and it would be GW. But I guess when your Chairman thinks he's Steve Jobs, what Justin King has to say is quite far beneath your notice.

**Azreal13**

That's so on the nose it isn't funny...

**Runic**

MWHistorian wrote:
RunicFIN wrote:
GW wrote:Of course, we know that all customers have choices - no one does business in a vacuum.

If this doesn´t hint to GW being aware of the market despite what Kirby has said in some pseudo PR statement then I don´t know what does. Maybe now that age old "weapon" of the anti-GW crew can be put to rest, since it was missing a blade and the handle had corroded in half ages ago.

This was ofcourse, obvious to anyone who has some common sense.

GW wrote:Well, we certainly do not shy away from contact with our customers - we see them face to face all the time in our stores around the world, at events and of course the thousands of visitors who come to Warhammer World in Nottingham every year. Our experience of the comment sections of, for example, Facebook, is that they are not very helpful to most of our customers as they simply become a place for trolling, spam or vitriolic opinion. This is to be regretted, but is a fact of the internet age. We are not alone in this opinion.

Most games forums turn into cesspools ( especially videogames. ) I can only imagine what the GW forums would be like if they allowed them. I can undestand easily why you wouldn´t want something like that existing and linking to your company. Also, so much for "GW doesn´t care about it´s customers."

Then again... just required common sense.

Got me thinking about the tournament angle again anyhow... certainly everyone loves a perfectly balanced game if one even exists, but if GW doesn´t even aim at a tournament oriented game, then why expect such a thing. Certainly they are not making an unbalanced game deliberately, as they are not evil like some want to think. But it must be admitted that they have taken longer than anyone else to come up with balanced rules...

Why expect product X when a company has declared they are going with Y.

All in all, pretty much what I expected as answers and what you would get as a response from most companies.

Your definition of "common sense" needs some reworking.

Not really.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Battlesong wrote:

I don't think any of their answers about the forums are common sense.

Badly written sentence, I meant the common sense -bit regarding "GW cares about it´s customers only." in that one. Yeah, can´t really say it´s common sense to shut down your forums/social media page ( altough I still understand that choice. )

**frozenwastes**

It would have been such a better move to respond to the Spots the Space Marine debacle by... fake apologizing. The book had part of its proceeds going to the Wounded Warrior Project (a charity for disabled veterans) so GW could have just made a donation to that same charity and talking about how they felt they had to defend their trade marks but find how it all turned out to be regrettable.

The small donation to the same charity that Spots was giving part of its proceeds and a fake apology where you don't admit any real wrong doing would have turned the Facebook page around and set the tone that GW is a company that listens. Imagine just how differently the discussions about GW and customer relations would be going if GW's defenders would be able to say something like "they said it was regrettable and made a donation to that charity, what more do you want?"

Instead GW pulled their social media presence and put the responsibility for social media on their retail employees...

**Easy E**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dear GW: Can I has my Lost & The Damned back? Muchthanx!

We are all free to create any rules we want. It says it right there in black and white on the internet!

When that army was dropped, I stopped being interested in 40K.

**Lockark**

Easy E wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dear GW: Can I has my Lost & The Damned back? Muchthanx!

We are all free to create any rules we want. It says it right there in black and white on the internet!

When that army was dropped, I stopped being interested in 40K.

So dose this also mean we can play any game in a gw store now as long as we only use gw models?

**MWHistorian**

OldSkoolGoff wrote:
Davylove21 wrote:

Our experience of the comment sections of, for example, Facebook, is that they are not very helpful to most of our customers as they simply become a place for trolling, spam or vitriolic opinion.

Cracks me up. The people who whine and whine incessantly online about how 'their hobby' is being ruined by big ol' mean GW are so unpleasant that GW straight up wants nothing to do with them. People post these long-winded diatribes online about 'why I quit GW' or #iampartofthereason etc have been so openly unpleasant for so long, GW would rather go out of business than even try to communicate with them. Good work, guys!

I don't think GW fans are some special breed of troglodyte that can't have a public forum. I think GW fans are people just like everyone else. Get a bunch of people together and there will be disagreements. GW didn't cut all ties to social media because GW customers are a bunch of horrible people. They cut ties because customers were upset by the business practices of the company and whey they complained about them (rightfully so) and instead of addressing them, GW just closed its eyes and covered its ears. This frustrated customers even more because they knew they were being ignored.
In that response the dude says that they don't need to answer rules questions because players prefer to make up their own answers. No. We don't. GW is out of touch with reality and can't handle adult things like clear rules or public apologies.

**darrkespur**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
0163 for me.

And it was "tin eared" guys. Jesus.

Ha. As a material scientist I immediately thought 'Sn' (the chemical symbol for tin) plus 'Ear', which also worked pretty nicely.

**notprop**

I just googled that again and it gets better.

Your really are a master of computer based research slightly confusing delayed reaction humour HBMC. You really are.

**Wayniac**

Now imagine if GW had some actual brains. Their twitter and Facebook pages would have WIP mockups of things weeks or months in advance, teasing upcoming things. They would have a way to engage with rules questions or feedback and actually maybe listen. They could submit playtest rules and get feedback and see how things really work.

Instead they basically dictate and say don't like it go away, we do things this way and it's the best way ever and if you disagree then you aren't the kind of customer we want to have.

**Howard A Treesong**

Easy E wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dear GW: Can I has my Lost & The Damned back? Muchthanx!

We are all free to create any rules we want. It says it right there in black and white on the internet!

Tell that to the people who were last working on the Blood Bowl living rule book, didn't that get shut down and gutted by GW?

**OldSkoolGoff**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
But their customers are just so darn mean!!!

I don't think theyr'e saying you guys are mean. Just hopeless. No point trying to reach out and talk to people who are never happy no matter what you do. And it's a shame that a very very small vocal minority ruined it for those of us.

**Azreal13**

Are you not a GW customer then?

**insaniak**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Tell that to the people who were last working on the Blood Bowl living rule book, didn't that get shut down and gutted by GW?

Well yes... you're allowed to use whatever rules you want. You're just not allowed to share them with anyone else.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

OldSkoolGoff wrote:
I don't think theyr'e saying you guys are mean. Just hopeless. No point trying to reach out and talk to people who are never happy no matter what you do. And it's a shame that a very very small vocal minority ruined it for those of us.

And yet other companies, and divisions of GW themselves, have managed to maintain forums and such without the level of silliness that GW are complaining about.

The vocal minority didn't ruin it for you. GW ruined it for you by failing to properly engage their customer base, making a whole bunch of business decisions that parts of their customer base didn't like, and then blaming the resultant backlash on the internet.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

WayneTheGame wrote:
Now imagine if GW had some actual brains. Their twitter and Facebook pages would have WIP mockups of things weeks or months in advance, teasing upcoming things. They would have a way to engage with rules questions or feedback and actually maybe listen. They could submit playtest rules and get feedback and see how things really work.

Instead they basically dictate and say don't like it go away, we do things this way and it's the best way ever and if you disagree then you aren't the kind of customer we want to have.

No they don't.

They just flat out do not, as a business, communicate with their customers. They don't even acknowledge the existence of customer dissatisfaction, never mind tell disgruntled customers to go away.

Its the diehard fanboys telling people on GW's behalf to shut up and go away, not GW itself.

**Azreal13**

Yes, because everything is fine, nothing is broken.

**Jehan-reznor**

OldSkoolGoff wrote:

I don't think theyr'e saying you guys are mean. Just hopeless. No point trying to reach out and talk to people who are never happy no matter what you do. And it's a shame that a very very small vocal minority ruined it for those of us.

Interesting to see that other game companies forums aren't destroyed by that "very very small vocal minority" and thrive, must be because GW is "special".

**PhantomViper**

OldSkoolGoff wrote:

I don't think theyr'e saying you guys are mean. Just hopeless. No point trying to reach out and talk to people who are never happy no matter what you do. And it's a shame that a very very small vocal minority ruined it for those of us.

Funny how the Black Library and Forgeworld Facebook pages had none of that and GW still shut them down...

**MWHistorian**

PhantomViper wrote:
OldSkoolGoff wrote:

I don't think theyr'e saying you guys are mean. Just hopeless. No point trying to reach out and talk to people who are never happy no matter what you do. And it's a shame that a very very small vocal minority ruined it for those of us.

Funny how the Black Library and Forgeworld Facebook pages had none of that and GW still shut them down...

It's weird, almost like....if someone is pleased with the product, there's less complaining. Hmmm....I wonder.

**brendan**

OldSkoolGoff wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
But their customers are just so darn mean!!!

I don't think theyr'e saying you guys are mean. Just hopeless. No point trying to reach out and talk to people who are never happy no matter what you do. And it's a shame that a very very small vocal minority ruined it for those of us.

This!

I am frequently concerned for my hobby based on the insane vitriol on this website and its ilk. Then I go to the FLGS and have a great time.

**Mr. Burning**

brendan wrote:
OldSkoolGoff wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
But their customers are just so darn mean!!!

I don't think theyr'e saying you guys are mean. Just hopeless. No point trying to reach out and talk to people who are never happy no matter what you do. And it's a shame that a very very small vocal minority ruined it for those of us.

This!

I am frequently concerned for my hobby based on the insane vitriol on this website and its ilk. Then I go to the FLGS and have a great time.

Insane Vitriol?

Where?

have you confused an OT thread about religion or Obamacare with the one where we discuss the CEO of Games workshop admitting that they do not care what customers want or say? (see investors report).

I really want to give GW my hobby spend but they slam the door in my face at every opportunity.

**H.B.M.C.**

notprop wrote:
Your really are a master of computer based research slightly confusing delayed reaction humour HBMC. You really are.

Well, I aim to please.

Azreal13 wrote:
Yes, because everything is fine, nothing is broken.

Hey! That's my line!

**Wayniac**

brendan wrote:
OldSkoolGoff wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
But their customers are just so darn mean!!!

I don't think theyr'e saying you guys are mean. Just hopeless. No point trying to reach out and talk to people who are never happy no matter what you do. And it's a shame that a very very small vocal minority ruined it for those of us.

This!

I am frequently concerned for my hobby based on the insane vitriol on this website and its ilk. Then I go to the FLGS and have a great time.

Ah yes we're all whiners and GW is fine.

Do yourself a favor and actually read what people are saying before you spout this same tired BS yet again. It seems every so often some new poster shows up and rehashes the same old "I'm having fun, GW is doing great, just whiners on the internet complain about everything" argument when that isn't the case at all. Now I'm sorry if I sound rude but it gets very old when we've had this talk multiple times and yet there's always someone new to chime in with the pro-GW argument that's been debunked many times over already.

This isn't just some group of bitter cheapskates complaining on the internet. The financials show that the company is not doing that well, and most of us "whiners" would give GW our money again and play the game again if they actually showed they care and are concerned about something beyond milking people for cash.

**Blacksails**

brendan wrote:

This!

I am frequently concerned for my hobby based on the insane vitriol on this website and its ilk. Then I go to the FLGS and have a great time.

Have you ever considered you may be a part of the problem?

I question anyone who doesn't stop and think twice about how GW is running two beloved games into the ground and cancelled several other ones.

But yeah, forum posters are totally the problem. Dakka also caused Ebola too, while we're making ridiculous statements.

**Wayniac**

Blacksails wrote:
brendan wrote:

This!

I am frequently concerned for my hobby based on the insane vitriol on this website and its ilk. Then I go to the FLGS and have a great time.

Have you ever considered you may be a part of the problem?

I question anyone who doesn't stop and think twice about how GW is running two beloved games into the ground and cancelled several other ones.

But yeah, forum posters are totally the problem. Dakka also caused Ebola too, while we're making ridiculous statements.

No no that's Nurgle, ergo GW caused it.

**Azreal13**

brendan wrote:
OldSkoolGoff wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
But their customers are just so darn mean!!!

I don't think theyr'e saying you guys are mean. Just hopeless. No point trying to reach out and talk to people who are never happy no matter what you do. And it's a shame that a very very small vocal minority ruined it for those of us.

This!

I am frequently concerned for my hobby based on the insane vitriol on this website and its ilk. Then I go to the FLGS and have a great time.

Your hobby?

That's "buying things from Games Workshop" right?

Because those of us that consider our hobby wargaming may be a little concerned with what GW's actions are doing to our hobby. Concerns that are frequently supported by information, evidence or experience, whereas those that claim to not share those concerns frequently resort to nothing but hand waving, unsubstantiated statements and personal attacks.

**Colpicklejar**

WayneTheGame wrote:
Now imagine if GW had some actual brains. Their twitter and Facebook pages would have WIP mockups of things weeks or months in advance, teasing upcoming things. They would have a way to engage with rules questions or feedback and actually maybe listen. They could submit playtest rules and get feedback and see how things really work.

Instead they basically dictate and say don't like it go away, we do things this way and it's the best way ever and if you disagree then you aren't the kind of customer we want to have.

They don't do that at all, man. They just put stuff out there. Here's how it would work your way.

GW teases the new Dark Eldar codex. Maybe they release the relics or something. There are 6,000 responses within the hour.

Response 1: "Wow. SO. BAD. How am I going to compete with wave serpents?????" (3,340 likes, a thread with 400 responses, half of which tell the OP he's an idiot for assuming he's only going to fight wave serpents, the other half telling him that wave serpents all they see in their local meta)

Response 2: "Anyone want to buy my Dark Eldar?" (4,000 likes, a thread with 70 responses, 45 of which are asking for a price, 25 of which are links to their own ebay auctions)

Response 3: "NICE!

" (3,000 likes, a thread in which the people who posted the other two comments call this guy a complete idiot)

That's pretty much the exact formula for what happens here, why would their facebook be any different?

TotalBiscuit explained that listening to his subscribers turned something he loved into a complete agony. He developed CANCER, for God's sake.

**Blacksails**

So you're saying its a good thing GW doesn't engage at all with their player base outside of their stores?

Sounds legit.

**Wayniac**

Colpicklejar wrote:
TotalBiscuit explained that listening to his subscribers turned something he loved into a complete agony. He developed CANCER, for God's sake.

TotalBiscuit is an idiot. I listened to his World of Warcraft podcast for a while until he ragequit due to making outdated content more accessible that he hadn't done which was somehow a threat to everything good and pure in the world. Whether or not it was an act to get out of podcasting, the guy has a self-inflated ego.

GW has stated they don't listen to feedback, and their attitude seems to be that anything with the Citadel logo will get bought because it's a Citadel miniature.

**Musashi363**

It's a good thing for Corvus Belli, Privateer Press, etc...