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gorgon wrote: There are multiple board games clearly based on the film, and another more based on the book. Doesn't seem like it's too complicated or prohibitively expensive.
Board ganes and miniature wargames are a bit different. Much like MESBG, they would have to dig into books other thsn just Dune in order to have enough variety for a miniature wargame.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Pretty sure GW made up a good amount of the stuff in MESBG without digging into the books at all. Theres a number of characters, unit types, and concepts that don't appear in the films or the books, etc.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
gorgon wrote: There are multiple board games clearly based on the film, and another more based on the book. Doesn't seem like it's too complicated or prohibitively expensive.
Board ganes and miniature wargames are a bit different. Much like MESBG, they would have to dig into books other thsn just Dune in order to have enough variety for a miniature wargame.
Dune Imperium is very clearly based on the movie, yet has expansions for Ix and Tleilaxu. Again, it doesn't seem like the IP is overly problematic or that the rights holders are anti-game. It may just be they haven't been pitched on a miniatures game yet, or haven't liked the pitches they've received.
This is a really solid board game, btw.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/12/15 16:26:10
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
chaos0xomega wrote: Pretty sure GW made up a good amount of the stuff in MESBG without digging into the books at all. Theres a number of characters, unit types, and concepts that don't appear in the films or the books, etc.
What miniatures specifically? Because I didn't see anything that didn't appear in the books or movies in their line.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
chaos0xomega wrote: Pretty sure GW made up a good amount of the stuff in MESBG without digging into the books at all. Theres a number of characters, unit types, and concepts that don't appear in the films or the books, etc.
What miniatures specifically? Because I didn't see anything that didn't appear in the books or movies in their line.
It is focused on you creating your own House and your own characters for the House. Then, you go out and do things for the benefit of your House.
It uses a Meta-currency that passes between GMs and players. It is a relatively abstract game mechanics designed to lean into the narrative. It uses Modiphius 2d20 system.
It is nothing like D&D, so you can't think about it in the same paradigm. It is much more abstract than that.
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chaos0xomega wrote: Pretty sure GW made up a good amount of the stuff in MESBG without digging into the books at all. Theres a number of characters, unit types, and concepts that don't appear in the films or the books, etc.
What miniatures specifically? Because I didn't see anything that didn't appear in the books or movies in their line.
Possible offhand mentioned in some book. Not biggest lotr experts.
Just go through most of the Easterling model range and army list, almost all of it aside from the basic infantry and khamul is made up by GW in some capacity. Same with half of the other units and characters in the game
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
chaos0xomega wrote: Pretty sure GW made up a good amount of the stuff in MESBG without digging into the books at all. Theres a number of characters, unit types, and concepts that don't appear in the films or the books, etc.
What miniatures specifically? Because I didn't see anything that didn't appear in the books or movies in their line.
Possible offhand mentioned in some book. Not biggest lotr experts.
Just go through most of the Easterling model range and army list, almost all of it aside from the basic infantry and khamul is made up by GW in some capacity. Same with half of the other units and characters in the game
I mean, I guess but at the same time they are reasonable extrapolations that fit entirely in the setting.
Easterling Cataphracts are just easterlings on horses. Ballista are common medieval weaponry, no reason dwarves wouldn't have some.
Its not like they came up with entire factions wholesale and i feel like everything fit just fine. Even those derpy half-trolls from Harad are given some mentions in the fluff.
I suppose it is made-up in the sense that those names aren't necessarily used, but its hardly complete fabrication to come up with some Tolkein sounding names for elite units and such.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/12/15 22:51:55
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Its not. Though I would be hard pressed to get more than... 4 factions out of just Dune.
Depends on how the wargame is structured, is it a massed battle or a skirmish game(prob skirmish).
You could probably have House Atreides, House Harkonen, Fremen, and Sardaukar if you limited yourself to just the original book.
Doable, but a stretch and you'd really want to expand and get a couple more, and would probably end up having a mercenary mechanic as well for some stuff.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
I respect D.V.'s desire to increase Chani's role but Zendaya is not doing it for me. She was fine in the Spiderman MCU and great in Euphoria, but she's not working for me in Dune. Zoe Saldana is probably too old for the role at this point, but I think she would've fit better with D.V.'s vision.
The visuals are still too bland. Lynch's movie may have been 'bad', but I like visuals more.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
Grey Templar wrote: Its not. Though I would be hard pressed to get more than... 4 factions out of just Dune.
Depends on how the wargame is structured, is it a massed battle or a skirmish game(prob skirmish).
You could probably have House Atreides, House Harkonen, Fremen, and Sardaukar if you limited yourself to just the original book.
Doable, but a stretch and you'd really want to expand and get a couple more, and would probably end up having a mercenary mechanic as well for some stuff.
You have the Houses Major and the Houses minor of themselves, CHOAM (Which is a combined merchant guild-thing, that ALL of the houses and parties are part of - Like a UN, but concerned more with the mercantile aspects of society), the BG, the Ixians, the Tlielaxu and the Spacing guild. You also have the Sardaukar, which are ostensibly the army of the Emperor (who is also the largest shareholder in CHOAM). In addition to those, you have smuggling guilds- because there are taxes and levies to move goods legitimately charged by CHOAM, on top of the fees paid to the spacing guild to move them - and where there are taxes and levies, there are people who choose not to pay them and to move goods another way (bribing the guild is also a thing).
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
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You could probably make a very nice skirmish game, kinda like Infinity out of it. A bit of overlap with some factions being able to be taken by others and such.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
chaos0xomega wrote: There's like a dozen other houses mentioned in the books. You can also do choam, the tleilaxu, and ixians
That's basically what Westwood did with Emperor Battle for Dune (a game I really wish would get remastered, but sadly I suspect its stuck in licencing hell/limbo)
They fleshed out one other house to a full army to give them 3 (I think it was Orlock or Orlaz or something like that). Then they added forces like the Navigators, Fremen, tleilaxu, and ixians as sub-factions that you could ally into your main force. I think you could have 2 allied forces at any one time and they basically gave you 2 additional specialist units to make use of. Or it might have been only 1 ally at a time. Game hasn't worked on a PC for me in utterly ages so its years since I last tried it .
They're doing an early screening on Sunday, but the theater near me was sold out. However, I already have tickets for March 1 to see it on 70mm IMAX. One of only 12 theaters nationwide.
I don't know how Villeneuve does it, but he can make a $200 million budget look like $400 million. It's stunning to watch.
Overall, I'm not sure how it could have been adapted for the big screen and general audiences better than this. There will be some that will complain loudly about certain changes -- including those around Chani, who has far more agency than the book. But IMO it ultimately makes her a better character.
I just came back from the theatre. I loved this film, but they changed so much of the story I'm not sure I could really call it the story of Dune.
Visually it's quite the spectacle. Denis has a great eye for beautiful shots. The action is well done, I was never confused about what was happening or who was where. The final confrontation at the end has some of the best fight choreography I've ever seen. Very few cuts so you can really appreciate all of the work the stunt guys put in. The beauty of Arrakis is on full display here, especially in a touching scene with Paul and Chani.
The soundtrack is killer. Hans nails that pseudo-biblical vibe so well. It fits the film like a glove.
The cast was exceptional, especially without Jason Mamoa sticking out like a sore thumb. I actually think my favourite character is Stilgar, Javier Bardem really understood the assignment. Everyone did a great job with their characters, even the ones who end up quite differently from the book. I have to give a special shoutout to Austin Butler, he turned in an amazing performance.
Which brings me to spoilers!
Spoiler:
I felt the absence of Count Fenring hard in this movie. Without him advising the Baron to get off Arrakis and set up Rabban as a scapegoat for the abysmal harvesting of spice after Leto's death, the political situation is just very different. The Baron appears to be on Arrakis for the whole movie with the exception of his nephew's birthday, which was also quite different.
In the book, it's Feyd that tries to get rid of his uncle but the movie flips this on its head. The gladiator fight remains the same, it just isn't a ploy for Feyd to discredit the Baron's slavemaster. I actually didn't mind this change, as it makes the Baron seem more competent than he was in the book.
Chan is like... a completely different character in this movie. Like borderline unrecognizable for anyone that's read the book. That being said, I think I actually prefer the film version. She's way less submissive and I really dig that. She challenges Paul a lot and is practically the only Fremen that isn't afraid of Jessica.
I really don't mind the changes though. Dune is a pretty old book and this very much feels like a modern day rendition of the story and I'm good with that. I really hope he makes another.
creeping-deth87 wrote: I just came back from the theatre. I loved this film, but they changed so much of the story I'm not sure I could really call it the story of Dune.
Visually it's quite the spectacle. Denis has a great eye for beautiful shots. The action is well done, I was never confused about what was happening or who was where. The final confrontation at the end has some of the best fight choreography I've ever seen. Very few cuts so you can really appreciate all of the work the stunt guys put in. The beauty of Arrakis is on full display here, especially in a touching scene with Paul and Chani.
The soundtrack is killer. Hans nails that pseudo-biblical vibe so well. It fits the film like a glove.
The cast was exceptional, especially without Jason Mamoa sticking out like a sore thumb. I actually think my favourite character is Stilgar, Javier Bardem really understood the assignment. Everyone did a great job with their characters, even the ones who end up quite differently from the book. I have to give a special shoutout to Austin Butler, he turned in an amazing performance.
Which brings me to spoilers!
Spoiler:
I felt the absence of Count Fenring hard in this movie. Without him advising the Baron to get off Arrakis and set up Rabban as a scapegoat for the abysmal harvesting of spice after Leto's death, the political situation is just very different. The Baron appears to be on Arrakis for the whole movie with the exception of his nephew's birthday, which was also quite different.
In the book, it's Feyd that tries to get rid of his uncle but the movie flips this on its head. The gladiator fight remains the same, it just isn't a ploy for Feyd to discredit the Baron's slavemaster. I actually didn't mind this change, as it makes the Baron seem more competent than he was in the book.
Chan is like... a completely different character in this movie. Like borderline unrecognizable for anyone that's read the book. That being said, I think I actually prefer the film version. She's way less submissive and I really dig that. She challenges Paul a lot and is practically the only Fremen that isn't afraid of Jessica.
I really don't mind the changes though. Dune is a pretty old book and this very much feels like a modern day rendition of the story and I'm good with that. I really hope he makes another.
Oh, I think it's definitely recognizable as Dune. To me, a lot of the stuff that changed either wasn't that important to the story, or was easily understandable from a filmmaking perspective.
Spoiler:
To wit, I don't care about Leto I not being present & dying. Paul doesn't need more reason to seek revenge. Count Fenring might be one character too many. And Alia not making it out of the womb avoids having the 5 year old actor with dubbed voice thing that Lynch did in his movie. I don't know that it'd really work well, and it was weirder to keep her a fetus for now. But how about the surprise casting there?
The Spacing Guild being a non-factor is kind of a shame, but that feels to me like Villeneuve is saving them for Dune Messiah along with the Bene Tleilax. Kinda like how he saved Shaddam and Irulan for Part Two. It's not a bad approach to keeping things tighter but still eventually filling the universe out. I was glad to see there were more references to the ecological dreams of the Fremen in this one. It's really important.
Chani is a lot different, but she's basically a lovesick puppy in the book who just goes along with whatever Paul wants -- and it's a lot -- without questioning. I know...'history will call us wives'. And Paul was faithful. But to me her reaction to Paul marrying Irulan is much more human and feels more like something from a strong Fremen woman. And I dunno that even book Chani felt like someone who'd just shrug at the whole little jihad thing. Those things realistically would feel like betrayals.
I agree the performances in this are really good. Chalamet raises his game for this one, and you really do see Paul change during the course of the film.
For anyone wanting to see it, I HIGHLY recommend rewatching Part One. Part Two is really like Episode Two...it picks up right from the end of the first film, and there are certain shots and ties back to the first film that really make it feel whole, but might be missed if you haven't watched the first part recently.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
It was absolutely amazing. Quite undeserving of the literally empty theater I saw it in.
I think it could do with a LOTR treatment and get some extended scenes in there, so hopefully we get that at some point just to flesh it out even more.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
I watched the film yesterday. I’ll let you all extrapolate my feelings on the matter by way of outlining what I feel needs to happen as of today.
A team of highly trained individuals should be gathered and fly to Denis Villeneuves home in helicopter in order to extract him to a location suitable to start work on filming part 3 immediately. Mr Villeneuve and any requested cast members, technicians etc are to be given any and all requirements to complete this task.
All reasonable people everywhere are to submit to this ruling and provide full support to Mr. Villeneuve and co.
Failure to comply results in immediate banishment from your social circle and the wearing of a dunce hat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/03/02 11:35:05
