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"We only made a $500 million profit on Dune 2, which is disappointing, we're pulling funding for Dune 3 and canceling the project."
Actually, the opening looks like it's going to beat the studio's projections. It's not going to touch the Barbie opening, but matching the Oppenheimer opening should be doable. It's going to beat the first film's opening by a good bit, and the stellar reviews and strong word of mouth should give it good legs. It'll be a profitable venture for the studio.
It's kind of incredible that the film was apparently made for $190 million! I've seen $250 million films that didn't look 25% as good.
"We only made a $500 million profit on Dune 2, which is disappointing, we're pulling funding for Dune 3 and canceling the project."
Actually, the opening looks like it's going to beat the studio's projections. It's not going to touch the Barbie opening, but matching the Oppenheimer opening should be doable. It's going to beat the first film's opening by a good bit, and the stellar reviews and strong word of mouth should give it good legs. It'll be a profitable venture for the studio.
It's kind of incredible that the film was apparently made for $190 million! I've seen $250 million films that didn't look 25% as good.
To be fair you’re on point there, it’s going to be a slam dunk.
I’m just glad we all got a big budget film with both style and substance for once. I’ll be watching it again next weekend, even going to take the old man.
Going to see film on Tuesday. Expecting it to be very much a visual spectacle and I am looking forward to it. Like, they should get this man to make the next Star Wars films or any 40K project. The filmmaker has a gift.
My only concern is that the film is going to continue acting as if Paul Atreides is a flawed protagonist. “Oh he’s like Luke facing serious moral choices and this is all edgy thought provoking stuff.”To me he’s a villain who isn’t being called out.
As if the characters in the narrative are blind to the really evil things he does and his immoral motivations. He’s evil, not morally grey at all and we’re given literally no reason to like him at all. So I hope he is called out on this. If Paul died I would feel nothing and would see that as him getting what he deserved. He’s a horrible human being and he is a “weak man”.
Hes not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.
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I wanted very much to see this notion pushed too and I felt it was there but not quite as well crafted as I would have liked.
That said, I quizzed my partner after we watched it to see if she picked up on Paul being less than heroic and she stated flatly ‘he went bad’ so maybe my worries about it being too subtle are unfounded.
Well, allow me to kill the hype off somewhat.It felt like watching entire run of Game of Thrones: it's awesome, engaging, groundbreaking, then the ending sequence is compressed into absurdity, and feels like nothing. It had incredible buildup, and very anticlimatic ending.
It was two hours of 5-star movie, and 45 minutes of 2 star movie. Call it a 3.5 stars overall.
Visually, though - and in terms of immersion - near perfect. Avatar what?
Backfire wrote: Well, allow me to kill the hype off somewhat.It felt like watching entire run of Game of Thrones: it's awesome, engaging, groundbreaking, then the ending sequence is compressed into absurdity, and feels like nothing. It had incredible buildup, and very anticlimatic ending.
It was two hours of 5-star movie, and 45 minutes of 2 star movie. Call it a 3.5 stars overall.
Visually, though - and in terms of immersion - near perfect. Avatar what?
Interesting take. I think I know what you mean by ‘compressed into absurdity’ but, having sat on it a while, I no longer feel that way. If you are talking about what I think you are, and I think you are, I feel the idea was to demonstrate the complete inability of those around to anticipate the strategy of such a mind.
Keeping it vague out of respect for those who have yet to see the film.
It's definitely one of the best movies in recent years. Not the absolute masterpiece some like to call it, but still very, very well made.
They managed to assemble a great cast and deliver some of the most stunning sci-fi visuals I've ever seen. The design was spot-on, especially regarding how alien things looked. Harkonnen are human, but their depravity and visual language made them truly uncanny. That sequence on Giedi Prime, so intensely illuminated by the unnatural light of their black sun, was fantastic.
Where the movie took a dive for me is the final third/quarter, where things seemed rushed, or rather compacted in a way that diminished the experience for me. I also missed some of the more intense dialogues that were the highlights of the book. I understand why they decided to cut count fenring, but I was really looking forward to his interaction with baron harkonnen. Gurney killing Rabban also felt shoehorned in for a cheap pay-off that didn't land at all. I feel some of the fremen scenes could have been taken out in favour of more relevant dialogue, exploring the political situation of the Harkonnens vs. the Emperor and the intrigues of the Harkonnen dynasty. Also no Thufir -.-
So overall very enjoyable, visually stunning, well cast, but with some unfortunate decisions in terms of plot and pacing.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2024/03/03 00:24:32
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Totalwar1402 wrote: Going to see film on Tuesday. Expecting it to be very much a visual spectacle and I am looking forward to it. Like, they should get this man to make the next Star Wars films or any 40K project. The filmmaker has a gift.
My only concern is that the film is going to continue acting as if Paul Atreides is a flawed protagonist. “Oh he’s like Luke facing serious moral choices and this is all edgy thought provoking stuff.”To me he’s a villain who isn’t being called out.
As if the characters in the narrative are blind to the really evil things he does and his immoral motivations. He’s evil, not morally grey at all and we’re given literally no reason to like him at all. So I hope he is called out on this. If Paul died I would feel nothing and would see that as him getting what he deserved. He’s a horrible human being and he is a “weak man”.
Hes not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.
To sort of answer your question,
Spoiler:
Yes and no.
Yes, he is engaging in a moral struggle where he doesn't want to be the messiah, at least not in a way which takes advantage of the Fremen and because he doesn't want his visions of genocide to come true.
Then in desperation he drinks the water of life as they begin losing their fight. This completely eliminates his moral waffling and he goes full Messiah.
I suppose the only flaw in their storytelling is that Paul has yet to do anything actually villainous, but he isn't not being called out. Chani is, unlike the book, not onboard with whats going on and I suspect that she will be a moral foil for him going forward.
My guess is that Dune Messiah is where we will see our new God Emperor go full villain mode.
I do feel like this movie will benefit greatly from an Extended edition to add another 45 minutes or so of scenes to it to fully develop the last third of the movie.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/03/03 02:01:37
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
It's definitely one of the best movies in recent years. Not the absolute masterpiece some like to call it, but still very, very well made.
They managed to assemble a great cast and deliver some of the most stunning sci-fi visuals I've ever seen. The design was spot-on, especially regarding how alien things looked. Harkonnen are human, but their depravity and visual language made them truly uncanny. That sequence on Giedi Prime, so intensely illuminated by the unnatural light of their black sun, was fantastic.
Where the movie took a dive for me is the final third/quarter, where things seemed rushed, or rather compacted in a way that diminished the experience for me. I also missed some of the more intense dialogues that were the highlights of the book. I understand why they decided to cut count fenring, but I was really looking forward to his interaction with baron harkonnen. Gurney killing Rabban also felt shoehorned in for a cheap pay-off that didn't land at all. I feel some of the fremen scenes could have been taken out in favour of more relevant dialogue, exploring the political situation of the Harkonnens vs. the Emperor and the intrigues of the Harkonnen dynasty. Also no Thufir -.-
So overall very enjoyable, visually stunning, well cast, but with some unfortunate decisions in terms of plot and pacing.
See, to me most of that falls under very understandable decisions.
In my opinion, the political situations you describe a) won't be that interesting to general audiences, b) will likely affect the film's pacing, and it's already a long one, and c) are ultimately irrelevant since the Corrinos and Harkonnens aren't truly going to matter anymore as soon as the credits roll. Better to spend more time with the Fremen, whose politics will still be relevant in the next film.
Totalwar1402 wrote: Going to see film on Tuesday. Expecting it to be very much a visual spectacle and I am looking forward to it. Like, they should get this man to make the next Star Wars films or any 40K project. The filmmaker has a gift.
My only concern is that the film is going to continue acting as if Paul Atreides is a flawed protagonist. “Oh he’s like Luke facing serious moral choices and this is all edgy thought provoking stuff.”To me he’s a villain who isn’t being called out.
As if the characters in the narrative are blind to the really evil things he does and his immoral motivations. He’s evil, not morally grey at all and we’re given literally no reason to like him at all. So I hope he is called out on this. If Paul died I would feel nothing and would see that as him getting what he deserved. He’s a horrible human being and he is a “weak man”.
Hes not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.
To sort of answer your question,
Spoiler:
Yes and no.
Yes, he is engaging in a moral struggle where he doesn't want to be the messiah, at least not in a way which takes advantage of the Fremen and because he doesn't want his visions of genocide to come true.
Then in desperation he drinks the water of life as they begin losing their fight. This completely eliminates his moral waffling and he goes full Messiah.
I suppose the only flaw in their storytelling is that Paul has yet to do anything actually villainous, but he isn't not being called out. Chani is, unlike the book, not onboard with whats going on and I suspect that she will be a moral foil for him going forward.
My guess is that Dune Messiah is where we will see our new God Emperor go full villain mode.
So regarding Dune Messiah...
Spoiler:
If it's anything remotely like the book, it's not going to have Paul in 'full villain mode'. At that point the jihad grows well beyond his ability to control, and he wrestles with how to put it back in the box without leading humanity down an even worse path. And then he still fails at the latter even if he succeeds at the former.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/03/03 19:39:45
See, to me most of that falls under very understandable decisions.
In my opinion, the political situations you describe a) won't be that interesting to general audiences, b) will likely affect the film's pacing, and it's already a long one, and c) are ultimately irrelevant since the Corrinos and Harkonnens aren't truly going to matter anymore as soon as the credits roll. Better to spend more time with the Fremen, whose politics will still be relevant in the next film.
I agree, these cuts are understandable, but that doesn't make their absence less frustrating. There may be a good reason, but the product is worse for it.
See, to me most of that falls under very understandable decisions.
In my opinion, the political situations you describe a) won't be that interesting to general audiences, b) will likely affect the film's pacing, and it's already a long one, and c) are ultimately irrelevant since the Corrinos and Harkonnens aren't truly going to matter anymore as soon as the credits roll. Better to spend more time with the Fremen, whose politics will still be relevant in the next film.
I agree, these cuts are understandable, but that doesn't make their absence less frustrating. There may be a good reason, but the product is worse for it.
I get it. TO ME, the bigger losses were in the first film. I think it would have been worth a couple minutes of screen time to see Thufir training Paul and Jessica sparring with Paul. And those scenes were filmed. The banquet scene's absence is the tragic one, although I trust Villeneuve a lot and obviously he just didn't see a way to make that one work. My understanding is that it wasn't filmed...might have been in an early version of the script but then cut. Gotta pour out a spice beer on the ground for that one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/03/03 22:11:16
I think my biggest gripe with the 1st part of the new dune film was how disconnected a lot of scenes felt. Each scent in itself felt good, but it just felt like there wasn't connections between the scenes. Ergo the natural flow of the story, events and film felt disjointed.
It's tricky to put my finger on it, but in general I didn't feel like I was watching a story but more seeing very choice scenes from a greater story.
Despite this movie being longer than the 1st one it still feels like it's not long enough. I think an additional 10 minutes sprinkled throughout might have helped. It's like they edited this movie down to the bare minimum needed to tell the story. Denis doesn't do extended versions though so I think for now we'll just have to cope with what we got.
I watched it on Sunday. I think it's about as good an adaptation as you could hope for, and a great sci fi movie too. First movie I've watched in the cinema since Dune part 1, and I think it's an improvement on that, as a film.
Spoiler:
The changes they made to Chani are improvements, adding a bit more depth to the Fremen culture and also giving us a POV on the changes that happen to Paul that makes Herbert's intended message a bit more clear. I think they did a good job with it.
I wonder what it would be like to watch it if you'd never read the books though - a deliberate choice is made not to explain stuff a good few times and I can see people scratching their heads. That said, I dunno how you could have explained some of it without painful exposition dumping or something, so it seems like the choice was made to preserve immersion in the movie over comprehensibility. For me, that was a good choice, but I wonder how non-book readers will find it.
What makes me saddest is the stuff they cut, but I think you've got to choose what to focus on in these situations. I'm a big fan of the ecological aspects of Dune and that doesn't really get much of a look in, unfortunately. I can see why they made that choice. Stuff like the Mentats and the Butlerian Jihad also get fairly glossed over, as well as some of the imperial politics and systems. Again, I think they made a choice to focus on what they could do well on film, and preserve immersion in this fantastical world over exploring every aspect of the novel.
I was surprised by how strongly the ending sets up another sequel. The novels quickly get pretty weird, so I wonder how many of them they'll do? Dune Messiah only, or all the way up to God Emperor of Dune? If ever a book was unfilmable...
chaos0xomega wrote: My understanding is that Denis only intends to go as far as Dune Messiah
Yeah, but thats still enough material for at least 2 more movies.
And the guy might not want to spend the rest of his carreer/life making just Dune movies....
I highly doubt Messiah will be two movies, since that book is less than half the size of the first book. That being said, we all know what happened with the Hobbit, so not counting it out entirely.
Yeah, he's indicated that it's one more film. But IIRC, he's going to shoot Rendevous with Rama before Messiah. The Bene Gesserit series can fill the gap somewhat in terms of having some Dune content, although it's set long before Dune.
Really looking forward to seeing what he does with Rendezvous with Rama. It also gives the actors a chance to work on other projects and to age a bit into the twelve-year time jump for Dune Messiah.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Actually one of my big questions about Messiah is about the time jump. Because Alia...
Spoiler:
...is still in the womb at the end of Dune. And we have that role cast already. So it has to be more like a 16+ year jump, right? ATJ can play younger, but not a 12 year old, especially when they probably won't start filming for another 2-3 years.
And 16 years seems like a stretch for the rest of the cast, although I guess he can just chalk a lot of it up to the geriatric qualities of spice.
Ok, just got back and I enjoyed that, but also found it really interesting. There’s a number of plot changes at the end that make it different to the book, yet actually reinforce the overall theme (messiahs and unquestioning authority are bad). And the way they’ve filmed it, it’s very solidly set up for another film, whilst still feeling relatively complete just in case that doesn’t happen.
There’s still a tiny bit of me that regrets that it doesn’t quite capture the atmosphere of the Imperium from the books (Louis XIV Versailles court IN SPACE!!!), but I think it’s about as good as we’re ever going to get as a mainstream adaptation. And for all that, I loved the look and feel of the Fremen culture, they did a really good job there.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
It'd be criminally negligent if some gaming company didn't acquire the license to produce fremen vs harkonnen plastics. The visual design of the movies is excellent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/03/05 01:30:49
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
We could definitely use a TV show to fill out some of the missing exposition from the films and expand the setting a bit. TV shows are a little better for managing exposition that would drag a movie down.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Except where the film deviates/misses out/changes/alters content from the book. Which even if you're doing a really faithful adaptation there are going to be some changes in cutting a large book down into just 2 films.
Grey Templar wrote: We could definitely use a TV show to fill out some of the missing exposition from the films and expand the setting a bit. TV shows are a little better for managing exposition that would drag a movie down.
The Sisterhood show will explore the early years of the Bene Gesserit. While that will only give so much insight into the chessboard circa 10191, I'd think it'd have to have some explanation of the Butlerian Jihad, and maybe give us a glimpse of the founding of other schools.
You never know if they'll start drawing up plans for a second series if Part Two does really well. That's one of the things they want now at WB...synergies between their movies and TV.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Regarding deleted scenes, Villeneuve said this to Collider:
“I’m a strong believer that when it’s not in the movie, it’s dead. Sometimes I remove shots and I say, ‘I cannot believe I’m cutting this out.’ I feel like a samurai opening my gut. It’s painful, so I cannot go back after that and create a Frankenstein and try to reanimate things that I killed. It’s too painful. When it’s dead, it’s dead, and it’s dead for a reason.”
Tim Blake Nelson was apparently cut from the film. The role kinda had to be
Spoiler:
Count Fenring, right?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/03/05 16:59:11
Sylvaneth A forest
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