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Yes fly got changed in 10th.

Bit of mixed back. It went from best ability "fly or be worthless" for big models to fairly minor buff(though not worthless) with danper of anti-fly X weapons.

What are people thinking about Terminators this edition? Picked up some Blightlords I’m converting as Word Bearers. Combi-weapons feel like a bit of a liability that’ll ping off of non-infantry. I’m thinking reaper & chainfist, 3 bolter & power fists, and twin claws, with a Lord, stomping up to midfield and bullying most units off of objectives, with a helbrute joining them for double pact (which has poor synergy with combi-weapons’ need for devastating wound rolls) and to help deal with big stuff.

tneva82 wrote:
Yes fly got changed in 10th.

Bit of mixed back. It went from best ability "fly or be worthless" for big models to fairly minor buff(though not worthless) with danper of anti-fly X weapons.

Ah, so even if you're not stopping on a terrain piece you still have to measure diagonally at all times?

Ah, I went and checked the Designer's commentary and indeed you do have to. I don't know why they couldn't just say that in the core rules...(same with minimum DMG 0)

Regarding Termies they are quite good this addition with +1T, +1W and a 4++ natively. Combis are free so I always run them with mine, if you need more volume of shots you can always put a reaper cannon on one of them. That said they aren't my first choice for dealing with Armor, instead I use mine to wipe out infantry and take distance objectives.

 lindsay40k wrote:
What are people thinking about Terminators this edition? Picked up some Blightlords I’m converting as Word Bearers. Combi-weapons feel like a bit of a liability that’ll ping off of non-infantry. I’m thinking reaper & chainfist, 3 bolter & power fists, and twin claws, with a Lord, stomping up to midfield and bullying most units off of objectives, with a helbrute joining them for double pact (which has poor synergy with combi-weapons’ need for devastating wound rolls) and to help deal with big stuff.

Update on this: I’ve spent some time mathhammering this.

Combi-bolters significantly outperform combi-weapons against Guard equivalent.

Against Marine equivalents, Combi-weapons are marginally better.

Against Terminator equivalents, Combi-weapons are far better - but five of them firing at close range are still unlikely to kill a whole Terminator.

Against Rhino equivalents, they are almost identical. Five of them firing at close range have an adequate chance of dealing a single wound.

Against Land Raiders and Dreadnoughts, combi-bolters are nearly useless, but five combi-weapons have an aquequate chance of inflicting a single wound.

But! what happens when we throw a prayer to Tzeentch into the mix? I didn’t run numbers for Nurgle - Sustained Hits 5+ is a very simple +33% damage multiplier. Lethal Hits 5+ is a bit more complicated.

Against Terminators, LH5+ doubles the effectiveness of combi-bolters; each Terminator firing one at close range will do 0.3W. Still not as effective as a combi-weapon without a DP. But it HALVES the effectiveness of combi-weapons! This is because a third of your shots lose their ability to punch through their armour. I’m going to say that if you’re firing combi-weapons at Terminators, you should basically never DP.

Against Land Raiders and Dreadnoughts, LH5+ makes no difference to a combi-weapon’s output. This is because you go from hoping to roll a 6 on your wound roll to hoping your opponent rolls a 1 to save. Now, if it’s a Terminator squad, the Dark Pact will give you re-rolls to hit, which equates to +25% damage, but for Tzeentch Chosen, it seems to be not worth it unless you’ve got a Helbrute giving you Sustained Hits as well. If you don’t have a Helbrute and need to reach for a clutch kill, go with Sustained Hits every time.

But if you’re firing a combi-bolter at a high T 2+ save target, LH5+ is a game-changer. Four Terminators firing them at close range will generally force these targets to fail a save. Not brilliant, but better than fishing for a 6 on your wound rolls.

We have a similar picture when shooting at MEQ’s with LH5+ - a combi-weapon’s effectiveness is reduced by almost a quarter, whereas a combi-bolter’s effectiveness rises by 50%, becoming 25% better at the job than a combi-weapon.

A combi-weapon shooting at GEQ gains almost no benefit from LH5+. A combi-bolter shooting at the same has its effectiveness increase by a quarter.

Against a Rhino, LH5+ more than triples a combi-bolter’s output. A terminator firing one at close range has a 52% chance of inflicting a wound. If he were doing it with a combi-weapon, his chances would increase by almost half has he not DP’d but he’d still inflict half as much damage as his brother with the combi-bolter.

Overall, I’m going to say that until we get combi-weapons with diverse profiles back again, combi-bolters are a better utility weapon, especially if you’re going with Nurgle and use Dark Pacts often. But the differences are largely marginal and Combi-weapons are not a complete loss, especially when you need to finish off a wounded Terminator or a couple of Intercessors, but against most targets I’m going to say the bolter wins..

Something I’ve noticed is Tzeentch heavy bolters can get SH & LH without a Helbrute marshalling them.With D2 AP-1 they can sting moderately hard targets.

On the subject of Dark Pacts, they make overwatch very interesting. I’ve won a game by getting multiple meltagun hits on a Primaris flame squad as it tried to move into position. Playing aggressively with my undivided Land Raider allowed it to consistently punish hard targets for challenging the centre of the table with two or four lascannon hits. (I can absolutely see the argument fro Nurgle, but my Berzerkers need their party van.)

Hey, I was wondering if there was a place for world eaters tactics, or at least some meta info for 10th.

I’m not expecting them to be competitive, but I was thinking of taking them off the shelf while I wait for my eldar army to be nerfed (hopefully soon).

Any info for how to make/start a world eaters force in 10th?

So I had a game against the Dark Angels. His list was mostly primaris (plasma blade guard intercessors etc.) Azerial, two redeptor dreads, a unit of the 6 jump primaris with guns, and of course the Lion.

The game went back and forth, but I was able to over come and win by 20, mostly based on what happened late game as I will explain below.

My list was as follows:
Master of possession leading
10 x possessed undivided
5 x warp talons slan
Dark Commune leading
20 x cultist mob Tz
4 x obliterates Tz
10 x traitor guardsmen Tz
Forgefiend undiv
Hellbrute
Daemon prince with wings sl
Maulerfiend
2 x venom crawlers Tz

This list is similar to the list I posted before, but I dropped the Lord Discordant and Warpsmith and was able to add a hellbrute and a maulerfiend.

Thoughts on units:

Master of possession leading 10 x possessed undivided- these guys did what they do, marching up the field and killing a ten man intercessor squad (only rolled half the attacks) then got charged by the Lion and actually manged to hold him up and put some wounds on him, before ultimatly being finished.

5 x warp talons slan- These guys just jumped up the field, then his jump pack gun guys came in an blasted them. It was actually good though as that prevented that very nasty squad from shooting something more valuable (these guys were going to take an objective if they survived), and allowed my forgefiend to finish off the jump guys. Overall I am not sold that these guys are really competitive, if they were slightly cheaper maybe for quick objective grabbers.


4 x obliterates Tz- these guys dropped in, took out a dreadnought, then finished off a few other units, and put some wounds on the Lion. This is the first game I felt they really excelled, but I had to waste a turn of shooting to advance them on the objective. That 4" move really hurts, and they are basically stuck where ever they arrive or deploy. Have to be really thoughtful of where they go.

10 x traitor guardsmen Tz- We played a special mission out of White Dwarf so there was no home objective, so these guys ventured forward and took one of the no-mans land objectives. They held it until turn 5 when they got killed in CC by a techmarine. The +1 save on the objective, with cover, makes them pretty sturdy against ap0 shooting, I was impressed. I still think they are a bit overpriced but the preformed solid.

Forgefiend undiv- yeah he sat in the back and threw out mortal wounds. He also did 7 wounds to himself, and was finally finished off in CC by Azerial. Expect these things to get a points nerf Thrusday.

Daemon prince with wings sl - I avoided the temptation to try to kill a dreadnought with this guy and targeted the blade guard. This is what he is good at, bulling elite infantry with 3 wounds. The -2 ap on his sword definitely is not helping, but this is the role for him if you bring him.

Maulerfiend- first game with the maulerfiend and I was not that impressed. It did make a long bomb 11" charge on turn one (with advance and charge strat) so that was cool, but it could not kill 5 Marines in CC. Now I did roll pretty bad for the main fists so that might be something, however the fists are only -2 ap. While I like the reduction in ap in this addition, something like giant fists used the break walls and tanks should probably still be -3. He actually made two or three of the 5+ saves, on a 5, so the lack of ap was telling. The lasher tendils are not nearly as good as before, only being D1, but I don't know if the two melta pistol shots are better. I don't think he is competitive, but fast and can get a turn one charge off pretty easy if your opponent moves into the mid-board. I am going to try him again and see.

Hellbrute and 2 x venom crawlers Tz- I am putting these together as I used them effectively as a unit. First, the 12 shots on the venom crawls throws out a lot of firepower. But mix that with the [Lethal Hits] and [Sustain Hits] on 5+ due to the hellbrute and they can put out some shots. They are still only -1 ap so you need your opponent to fail some saves, but that is basically most of 10th edition other than the broken crap (i.e. eldar, forgefiend, etc.). Not sure if these build would be competitive at the highest level per se, but it certainly does not suck.

Dark Commune leading 20 x cultist mob Tz- this is consistently my favorite unit, not due to power, but just do to how flexible they are. If you have been reading this section you know I always put these guys in strategic reserve and appear on a flank, then pop their once per game ability. They have scored me double digit points in every game, and this one they scored, 10 primary, and 8 secondary. And the best thing happened.......they finished off the Lion!!! Yes, he was down to 2 wounds, but with the [Lethal Hits] on a 5+ and the sheer number of shots they have, they can be a threat. In the two turns I shot the Lion, I scored 14 wounds and 16 wounds. Now he only failed one save each time due to having a 2+, but I should have averaged 2 wounds so he got a bit lucky. He did not charge them as the Lion had to finish off something else, and even with the 14 attacks, the 5++ just makes the cultists so hard to chew through. I really think this unit is great. I would field it in my competitive list, and it will shine even better against armies that don't have a 3+ or 2+ save.

Based on my few games and watching battle reports, if I was going to go to a tournament now, I would bring 2 units of possessed lead by a MoP, 3 Forgefiends, my cultist unit then maybe fill it out with the venom crawlers and hellbrute, and maybe a prince. Not sure on points but that would be the general concept.

Hope this helped.

lindsay40k wrote:Something I’ve noticed is Tzeentch heavy bolters can get SH & LH without a Helbrute marshalling them.With D2 AP-1 they can sting moderately hard targets.

On the subject of Dark Pacts, they make overwatch very interesting. I’ve won a game by getting multiple meltagun hits on a Primaris flame squad as it tried to move into position. Playing aggressively with my undivided Land Raider allowed it to consistently punish hard targets for challenging the centre of the table with two or four lascannon hits. (I can absolutely see the argument fro Nurgle, but my Berzerkers need their party van.)

Thanks for the Mathhammer analysis, I need to reevaluate combi-bolters and heavy bolters now

How are your Berzerkers doing? I'm disappointed we don't have any leaders for them in CSM (same for Rubrics and Plague Marines) so I've been treating mine as Legionaries and attaching an exalted champion in the party van.

Iggy88 wrote:Hey, I was wondering if there was a place for world eaters tactics, or at least some meta info for 10th.

I’m not expecting them to be competitive, but I was thinking of taking them off the shelf while I wait for my eldar army to be nerfed (hopefully soon).

Any info for how to make/start a world eaters force in 10th?

I don't think there's been a WE 10th thread but the 9th one may have some insight on tactics (https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/807741.page). They are in an odd spot since the codex was pushed out the door with very few units, most armies I have seen tend to focus around Angron and the Eightbound. If you don't want to run WE proper you can always run CSM as a Khornate warband which is still plenty of fun.

xeen wrote:So I had a game against the Dark Angels. His list was mostly primaris (plasma blade guard intercessors etc.) Azerial, two redeptor dreads, a unit of the 6 jump primaris with guns, and of course the Lion.

I'm really starting to like the idea of Warp Talons moving up the board instead of deepstriking, I think I will save my rapid ingress for a Termie Lord with a khornate Termie Squad. For the Warp Talons not deep striking it would appear that Slaanesh for the advance and charge may be the best bet, provided you have the extra CP.

I like the Traitor Guardsmen a lot, I'm thinking of getting another blooded box. To me the points are fair for getting 3 special weapons but I could see them being as low as 60pts. Whether or not they are effective for me generally depends on the board layout and objective layout. Your WD mission with no home objectives sounds quite interesting.

I'm not sold on the DP with wings, they seem rather expensive atm. I would like to try a DP without wings and try marching up the midfield with a lot of infantry and the 4++ aura. Perhaps with a bloodletter mob and/or accursed cultists.

Nice work on the Cultists finishing off the Lion, such an ignoble end to him

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
How are your Berzerkers doing? I'm disappointed we don't have any leaders for them in CSM (same for Rubrics and Plague Marines) so I've been treating mine as Legionaries and attaching an exalted champion in the party van.

Honestly? Terrible. They’re functioning as a bullet magnet on their leftover reputation alone. Not being able to plug in a character hurts. Their ability is specific to WE armies, in which they have seemingly been relegated to the role of midfield objective holders who shout abuse at nearby enemies and dare them to a fight whilst the Eightbound do the actual blending. Legionaries match their remarkable OC, have a better loadout, a useable special rule, character options, and mark options. The only thing Berzerkers have over Heretacs is +1S, and doing a Dark Pact & giving the Champion a Power Fist outperforms that, even without a melee-focussed Mark. I think you’re already taking the strongest approach to including their models in a CSM force; Rubrics and Plague Marines do at least have their niches in our army, but Berzerkers have fallen from grace even harder then Mutilators IMO. Maybe worth returning to when there’s a codex or two.

Has anyone here been using accursed cultists? I am seeing them coming up allot on the tournament scene and looking at their rules, I can in some ways see why.

- Free respawn
- inbuilt 6+FNP
- plenty of wounds and not a terrible damage profile considering DP
- Easily more durable with Dark Commune or Abbaddon nearby
- 10 little dudes and 3 big dudes are 190pts, so cheaper than 10 legionnaires but likely around as tough with their gimmicks

I am going to proxy some next week and give them a run, see what I can do

Yeah hopefully the Codex let's us do something with specialty marines, right now they are pretty meh, until then I have no strong desire to replace my mini-zerkers with the new scale ones.

As for Accursed Cultists I think they will do great on the tabletop, I need to get mine assembled (and the Dark Commune) before I try them out.

With the new points changes I'm really looking forward to running my Brazen Beasts army. Points cuts to the Defiler and Helbrute are very nice, Discolord dropping 30pts might require another look. Forgefiend got a modest price hike but still worth taking.

For infantry Termielord and Warp Talons they got a very nice points drop, and some respectable point cuts for Legionnaires and Rhinos.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Yeah hopefully the Codex let's us do something with specialty marines, right now they are pretty meh, until then I have no strong desire to replace my mini-zerkers with the new scale ones.

As for Accursed Cultists I think they will do great on the tabletop, I need to get mine assembled (and the Dark Commune) before I try them out.

With the new points changes I'm really looking forward to running my Brazen Beasts army. Points cuts to the Defiler and Helbrute are very nice, Discolord dropping 30pts might require another look. Forgefiend got a modest price hike but still worth taking.

For infantry Termielord and Warp Talons they got a very nice points drop, and some respectable point cuts for Legionnaires and Rhinos.

I just checked and I think the most likely candidates for the lord's special ability are battle tactic stratagems, fortunately. But do keep that in mind when looking at lords, that they have a total of 3 stratagems to trigger.

Lords being restricted to a half dozen Battle Tactics to use for free doesn’t seem to matter all that much to me. What’s that cover?

- Command re-roll: you’re a sniper magnet with a 4++, you’re probably in a 3W unit that’s attracting autocannon fire, and it’s a pretty good strat for your opponent to target with the Callidus nerf.

- Counter-offensive: it costs a lot.

- Epic Challenge: handy tool for a hammer or accursed Lord to keep in his bag of tricks, I’m expecting DG PM squads with multiple characters to become a lot more popular in this season so this is probably solid.

- Infernal rites: it costs twice as much as armour of contempt, and makes your terminator squad lose half as many fighters to autocannons, again a decent call IMO

- Profane Zeal: semi-redundant on terminators and legionaries but not bad on Chosen, but I’d probably prefer to save the free activation on a 2CP strat.

- Eternal Hate: never used it but I keep it in mind when Primarchs are in play.

Honestly the only things I think we’ve actually lost here is Overwatch (it’s cheap unless like a Callidus punks us), Dark Obscuration (you get to use it for free once and then your opponent always resolves their attacks against the lord’s unit first so that if you pop it for free on him then you don’t get to use it on your LR or whatever, so again not a great loss), and Heroic Intervention (yeah, that could suck).

Insane Bravery is now very tightly rationed so it’s not really impacted by this, Rapid Ingress and Smokescreen and Tank Shock weren’t allowed anyway, neither was Grenade by Terminators, Skinshift and Unnatural Swiftness are both pretty cheap and activated just after you get your CP.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Yeah hopefully the Codex let's us do something with specialty marines, right now they are pretty meh, until then I have no strong desire to replace my mini-zerkers with the new scale ones.

As for Accursed Cultists I think they will do great on the tabletop, I need to get mine assembled (and the Dark Commune) before I try them out.

With the new points changes I'm really looking forward to running my Brazen Beasts army. Points cuts to the Defiler and Helbrute are very nice, Discolord dropping 30pts might require another look. Forgefiend got a modest price hike but still worth taking.

For infantry Termielord and Warp Talons they got a very nice points drop, and some respectable point cuts for Legionnaires and Rhinos.

Venom crawlers also got a good cut. I think the warptalons, venom crawlers and the hellbrute were big wins. Also dark commune not going up was great, and the small drop on chosen and possessed worked out pretty good as well. I think CSM did pretty good on this pass, unlike my TS who got hit pretty hard.

I actually haven't run a Chaos Lord of any variety yet, it's funny since I have a few armies and several of them are very character dependent, but there are so many good options in the CSM codex that I haven't yet felt the need to run a CSM Lord. With the points drop a CSM Lord + Termie squad was going to be in my next army, until the free CP change meant they could no longer use Rapid Ingress

Of the strats Lindsay mentioned I think Counteroffensive and Infernal Rights would probably see the most action on a Lord, although your opponent may target the Lord's unit first to make counteroffensive pointless. I'm still baffled they have left it at 2CP. I recall when 10th came out, Tabletop Tactics for instance assumed it was a typo and just treated it as a 1CP like Armor of Contempt.

For Venom Crawlers I'm surprised they got a price cut, they were already pretty good, not quite Forgefiend good but they saw a lot of action. I'm not a big fan of spiders so I don't own any myself But I do love crabs and the Defiler and Blood Slaughterers have gotten a lot of use, with the former being fantastic (S12 extra attacks on the Scourge is a real treat ) and the latter being a bit mediocre but at least as a Legends unit it isn't broken with no update on the way.

I ran 2 Helbrutes recently, the dakkabrute did well on the backfield but it's hard keeping the hammerbrute alive while also maximizing it's aura usage on the frontline. After people realize I'm getting a 5++ Khorne/Tzeentch Sustained and Lethal wounds because of the Helbrute he gets deleted pretty quickly. I have a 3rd Helbrute on the sprue but I don't know if it's worthwhile to field a 3rd

I have another game coming up this week so I'll be trying out the cheaper Warp Talons. I got my Dark Commune painted up but haven't had a chance to start the accursed Cultists, that'll be next after I finish up my Ork backlog.

Well our armor of contempt is a battle tactic, as is the undivided one and the Khrone one (I know you can use them on others but that his how I can identify them without looking the name up). So a Khorne Lord with Khorne Chosen still has pretty good access to strats I would be using anyway. I found that the Lord with the Chosen is pretty good, although he is not the beat stick he once was.

I think if you want to get a load of mileage from a brute it's got to be Nurgle and a CP's got to be assigned to it every turn. It's the sort of multiplier that an opponent will want to remove pretty quick. I'm painting up an Ectofiend and going to try it with a brute and warsmith.

So I would like to run Fabius in a rhino with a MoE and a 10x man unit of chosen. The problem:… thats 13 models. Can I exclude his little acolyte so they can all fit? Anywhere in the rules that prohibits taking a smaller unit than the datasheet specifies?

Kangarupe wrote:
So I would like to run Fabius in a rhino with a MoE and a 10x man unit of chosen. The problem:… thats 13 models. Can I exclude his little acolyte so they can all fit? Anywhere in the rules that prohibits taking a smaller unit than the datasheet specifies?

The problem is that taking an understrength unit is permitted.
Last edition you could in certain circumstances. But not now.
If your not in a tourney just ask your opponent. Personally I'd agree - provided you dropped one of the Chosen.

ccs wrote:

Kangarupe wrote:
So I would like to run Fabius in a rhino with a MoE and a 10x man unit of chosen. The problem:… thats 13 models. Can I exclude his little acolyte so they can all fit? Anywhere in the rules that prohibits taking a smaller unit than the datasheet specifies?

The problem is that taking an understrength unit is permitted.
Last edition you could in certain circumstances. But not now.
If your not in a tourney just ask your opponent. Personally I'd agree - provided you dropped one of the Chosen.

Would you mind pointing out the specific part of the rules that prohibits it? I believe, just want to read it over. Thanks!

Kangarupe wrote:

ccs wrote:

Kangarupe wrote:
So I would like to run Fabius in a rhino with a MoE and a 10x man unit of chosen. The problem:… thats 13 models. Can I exclude his little acolyte so they can all fit? Anywhere in the rules that prohibits taking a smaller unit than the datasheet specifies?

The problem is that taking an understrength unit is permitted.
Last edition you could in certain circumstances. But not now.
If your not in a tourney just ask your opponent. Personally I'd agree - provided you dropped one of the Chosen.

Would you mind pointing out the specific part of the rules that prohibits it? I believe, just want to read it over. Thanks!

You know as well as I do that:
A) There's no mention of being able to take understrength units in this edition.
B) And if there's not a rule granting you permission to do something in GW games, then you can't do it.

Unit composition: 1 leader, 5-9 grunt: x points.( and above this 1 leader, 4 grunt)

Note how it does not say 9 grunt but 5-9. Aka anything betwenn 5 and 9.

So 1 leader, 8 grunt fine. 1 leader, 3 grunt no.

You can take a 9-man Chosen unit. You can't choose not to take the Acolyte with Fabius though. The unit composition for him is fixed.

Slipspace wrote:
You can take a 9-man Chosen unit. You can't choose not to take the Acolyte with Fabius though. The unit composition for him is fixed.

ahh, yea that makes sense reading over the datasheet. Ultimately I guess it would be foolish to take a chosen out when you’re paying for the full. :/

IMO, princes should be able to lead units of Possessed.

Or give them Lone Operative so they aren't so... squishy!

Yeah, DPs are weird. They sort of have Dreadnaught stats, but they're basically close combat only. The foot ones tend to buff the units around them, making them a key target, which means they just tend to die really quickly.

We already have Neurotyrants joining Neurogaunts, so I don't think having a DP in a unit of Possessed would be too much of a problem. Or just give them Lone Operative, as suggested.

I like the idea of them being able to join Possessed.

But then again I think far more characters in 40k need Lone Operative. And rules that function when not leading a squad.

Slipspace wrote:
Yeah, DPs are weird. They sort of have Dreadnaught stats, but they're basically close combat only. The foot ones tend to buff the units around them, making them a key target, which means they just tend to die really quickly.

We already have Neurotyrants joining Neurogaunts, so I don't think having a DP in a unit of Possessed would be too much of a problem. Or just give them Lone Operative, as suggested.

Of course going to neurogaunts has side effect of becoming death trap if precision is around as neurotyrants t8 goes to 3

I don't think the DPs are to bad, probably a bit overcosted still. I use a slannesh flying one pretty regularly and the thing I realized is that I had to change my thinking about the unit a bit from 9th. It is not a main line damage dealer anymore, and is not going to be a center of your army. However, for the winged one, its speed lets it do well going down the flank, especially if you can keep it behind LOS blocking terrain. Then I just use him to bully flank and backfield objective campers, especially if he can get into some shooting infantry and start causing havoc in the backfield. Don't send him into tough units with a good save, like most tanks, and definitely don't send him into units with good T and saves who can fight in CC, like terminators, dreadnoughts, carnifex, etc. He needs to be picking on units that can't really hurt him back in CC and are not super tough, and he does just fine.

Also I have found, unless you are playing on a battlefield that has no cover or LOS blocking, that he does ok with his T9 2+/4++ in soaking up most shooting. The invul is always strange in that if you roll hot, he is basically unkillable to AT weapons, but you fail like one or two of those and he is dead fast. Again, he should not be out in the open, but cowering behind ruins and then jumping out to attack units that pose no real treat to him. Also every shot that goes into him, doesn't go into my main damage dealers like possessed, forgefiend, etc.

Just a thought.