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So, fairly straightforward. Going forwards which 28mm scale sci-fi battle game do you think will do best?

We all know that 40k has been dominant for decades (and may well prove to continue to be so) but the past year has seen serious challengers emerge.

To be clear on the parameters here, I've excluded skirmish games not because I don't rate them (Infinity is one of my all time favourite games ) but because they don't directly compare. Similarly games in a different scale such as DZC or Planetfall or games in a different genre such as Warmachine or Dystopian Legions cannot be regarded as direct competitors/potential replacements.

In terms of success, financial return is an obvious measure but the real yardstick is which of these will ultimately have the largest player base.

So what do you think? Over the next 10 to 20 years will 40k retain the crown or will it be consigned to the halls of nostalgia?

None of the above, I am afraid.

I think that whatever game replaces 40K has not yet shown up - if any game ever truly replaces the falling giant.

The Auld Grump

40K, honestly.

All that is needed is some competent management to turn GW around. With their extensive IP, their current catalog of product, as well as their massive back-catalog of games they're sitting on (Specialist Games), along with their ability to produce their near-vertical monopoly on producing their product, they can offer an alternative for every gaming genre and setting, and match, if not undercut, the prices of the competition.

If they could get the competent management they need, they can turn their sinking ship around and be on top for decades to come.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
None of the above, I am afraid.

I think that whatever game replaces 40K has not yet shown up - if any game ever truly replaces the falling giant.

The Auld Grump

Falling giant. Haahaahhahahahahahahahh.

They're going to sell so many copies of battle of calth it won't be funny.

In the vaguely distant future? Something else, not sure, reply hazy, ask again later.

10 or 20 years?

uh..

Lets worry about what's on the horizon with the influx from these new games coming out like, Maelstrom's edge, Dakka's game and some of this other stuff coming down the pipe... KS's been pretty good to me. not great, but I have this Kingdom death game, that if it was a just a bit cheaper would be selling like hotcakes.

10 or 20 years? that's to far out to worry about, bro.

To me, Old school is the best school, right now.

Dropsquad Commander.

40k is certainly a successful line of collectibles. However, the most successful game will probably be Warpath, in large part for devising a ruleset one can use with his 40k figurines.

It'll be 40K as there still isn't any major coverage of any tabletop wargame except 40K right now. At least where I live. It's D&D/Pathfinder, MTG or the rare 40k player.

I don't see one game taking 40k's place, but many.

I think we lack the info needed to tell at this point. 40k's fate may end up being decided on a 1D6 chart, and the rest are still in their infancy.

Honestly I think 40k is hitting a bursting point, there's just too much @#$% in the rules pulling the game in too many directions.

On one hand we have 10 story tall battle mechs, on the other we're supposed to roll to see if anyone is blinded by Sgt Borg's conversion field.

Something has to give.

There's tons of great models out there, more than I can buy, much less paint and use, but none of the up and coming games (including Dakka's own) really grab me. Individual models to, but nothing has that 'total package'.

So I would say the future belongs to whomever can put together the GURPS of mini games and get it wide acceptance.

I think the winning game will be whomever manages to come up with a universal system that lets people use the models they want.

If you position the goal posts properly, you get the answer "Nothing can possibly ever replace the horrible, bloated, wonderful mess that is 40k"

Because, as far as I can tell, the people who go and develop "competitors" like Beyond the Gates of Antares or Warzone end up trying to write sensible and reasonable games when an important component of 40k is the randomness and unreasonable elements. It's sort of like the Grade B Horror Movie genre--the same things that make it terrible are the things that people love about it.

GW happened to be around at the right time to allow it to develop 40k into a miniatures range (with ancillary rules for playing massed battle games).

Given 30+ years you could imagine other companies producing something akin to the steam roller GW have produced in the past.

But since we now live in stupendous times where, even though we are not living on the moon, there are many many 40k beating games produced weekly. It's hard to see something of GW's previous dominance coming through.

3D holographic battle chess, Star Wars style,

but until that comes along 40K,

there are just too many decent systems out there for one to dominate,

and the internet/KS now means that anybody with a good idea has a reasonable chance of at least getting something going that will keep ticking over so more and more will be released

the only chance I see for a really major change in dominance is some computer (hologram?) based game that brings in a whole new wave of players who haven't been interested in war gaming in the past, then if it's a good system with fun models a large community will draw existing war gamers in

40k without a doubt. Sheer momentum and the easy way to get games will see that it sticks around a lot.

However, I'd like to see alternative systems take a shot at, not so much toppling it, but bringing it down so that its not the only ubiquitous game but one of a number of options that are easily accessible.

I remember a while back that someone on here was having a whinge that his local club or store (can't remember which) no longer plays 40k exclusively but, instead, a wide variety of games. They complained that in order to get a game in they'll have to buy different systems and why can't they just stick to 40k and buy a new army (like they do) when they fancy a change. To me, that's a narrow minded approach to the hobby. A wide variety of systems and options is an excellent thing and should help bring in new players exposed to different systems.

I think it's an odd question and I have to say I don't particularly care. I'm only worried about the games I play, that the local groups play, and that I can heckle the local groups into playing.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:...but none of the up and coming games really grab me... nothing has that 'total package'.

I think the winning game will be whomever manages to come up with a universal system that lets people use the models they want.

The tragic thing is that they're already here, but people don't notice them or disregard them because they're not on the internet hype machine, not on kickstarter, not on the '40K route to success', lacking shiny miniatures and a shiny box-set, even a shiny book; in short, the 'total package'.

zedmeister wrote:
I remember a while back that someone on here was having a whinge that his local club or store (can't remember which) no longer plays 40k exclusively but, instead, a wide variety of games. They complained that in order to get a game in they'll have to buy different systems and why can't they just stick to 40k a buy a new army (like they do) when they fancy a change. To me, that's a narrow minded approach to the hobby. A wide variety of systems and options is an excellent thing and should help bring in new players exposed to different systems.

+1

 cincydooley wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
None of the above, I am afraid.

I think that whatever game replaces 40K has not yet shown up - if any game ever truly replaces the falling giant.

The Auld Grump

Falling giant. Haahaahhahahahahahahahh.

They're going to sell so many copies of battle of calth it won't be funny.

And that has been their most sensible action related to 40k (if we can even call it 40k, as it's 30k, really) in the last year.

So Falling Giant indeed.

What do you mean by "their most sensible action"? I'm pretty sure Ad Mech sold like hotcakes, and probably the new Tau models will as well.

 Mymearan wrote:
What do you mean by "their most sensible action"? I'm pretty sure Ad Mech sold like hotcakes, and probably the new Tau models will as well.

True, I forgot about Admech which was a nice, desired addition, but they would've done much better with a CSM release instead of Tau.

I also don't think either of these releases generated the amount of hype that the single box of plastic 30k miniatures is generating, though.

News flash:

Turns out you can use these 30k Marines in 40k games.

Shocker, I know.

 cincydooley wrote:
News flash:

Turns out you can use these 30k Marines in 40k games.

Shocker, I know.

Doesn't matter. The big hype is derived from the fact that they are 30k plastics and that, that is a precedent.

You could use FW's 30k marines in 40k too, but they're not plastic.

40K will continue to dominate the market so long as GW doesn't step on their crank with golf shoes, like they did with WFB. And even if it does, I'd bet fan-based projects (similar to 9th Age) will keep it going for a good long time.

Other games will take a toll of the former 40K domination, yes. But 40K is too pervasive right now for it to become second-best any time soon.

Games Workshop may be the uncontested king of the genre, but if they keep escalating the prices - there are so many strength D shots to the wallet that its customers are willing to endure. Their base infantry box price is = to the starter box price for most of their competitors. With Infinity and Warmachine both moving to the free rules model - GW's substantively higher starting price point is further exaggerated.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
None of the above, I am afraid.

I think that whatever game replaces 40K has not yet shown up - if any game ever truly replaces the falling giant.

The Auld Grump

Falling giant. Haahaahhahahahahahahahh.

They're going to sell so many copies of battle of calth it won't be funny.

And that has been their most sensible action related to 40k (if we can even call it 40k, as it's 30k, really) in the last year.

So Falling Giant indeed.

But falling so slowly that they'll sell more Battle of Calth in the first month than all the other games in this thread will sell over their lifetime.

Infinity

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
None of the above, I am afraid.

I think that whatever game replaces 40K has not yet shown up - if any game ever truly replaces the falling giant.

The Auld Grump

Falling giant. Haahaahhahahahahahahahh.

They're going to sell so many copies of battle of calth it won't be funny.

And that has been their most sensible action related to 40k (if we can even call it 40k, as it's 30k, really) in the last year.

So Falling Giant indeed.

But falling so slowly that they'll sell more Battle of Calth in the first month than all the other games in this thread will sell over their lifetime.

Be careful what you wish for.
All GW will see with a successful launch is hobbyists buying (and thus telling GW they want) a mediocre tile based board game based on an existing property. Hobbyists actually want monopose dreadnought sized models. etc.

Buy away!

 Vulcan wrote:
40K will continue to dominate the market so long as GW doesn't step on their crank with golf shoes, like they did with WFB. And even if it does, I'd bet fan-based projects (similar to 9th Age) will keep it going for a good long time.

Other games will take a toll of the former 40K domination, yes. But 40K is too pervasive right now for it to become second-best any time soon.

That 9th edition fan based group got hit with a cease and desist letter from GW from what I heard

Undoubtedly 40k, for the forseeable future.

But, what is perhaps the important point (and what differentiates 2015 from perhaps even 10 years ago) is that there are so many other great games out there to enjoy. Not just sci-fi but fantasy, historical, steampunk/pulp (or anything else that has been dreamed up) with so many different types of rule system, scale and miniature aesthetic. It's arguably a golden age for wargaming of any sort, long may it continue!

It's like asking what will replace reddit, facebook, dakka, or warseer. Yeah there are alternatives, but none of them will stand up unless something really drastic happens.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
It's like asking what will replace reddit, facebook, dakka, or warseer. Yeah there are alternatives, but none of them will stand up unless something really drastic happens.

The same thing was once said of MySpace. Change does happen and it's not always predictable. If one of the big boys with deep pockets (think Hasbro or similar) decided to fund a Star Wars Table Top Game with models that are at least GW quality, people would flock from 40k to Star Wars in droves.

Can you imagine sitting at home and clipping Stormtrooper bits off the sprue? Converting up a custom Jedi? Debating the merits of Jink style saves on Speeder Bikes? I'd be so excited. The Star Wars IP juggernaut would bury 40k in a landslide.

Until then... 40k has such a ridiculous lead over the #2 scifi game that it's likely to still be #1 in 10 years.