Imperial Knights - Warden and Crusader - Pre-Orders Up!

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**BrookM**

Stormwall wrote:
Is it bad I'm super excited for this kit? I've been doodling a paint scheme during my breaks today.

Same here, already dreaming up stuff to put in that fist for my Knight Errant.

shade1313 wrote:
SharkoutofWata wrote:
Why does the Crusader look like it has Coaxial Bolters on the Gatling Cannon and a Coxial Stubber on the Battle Cannon thing? Is that an aesthetic choice or an actual thing?

The coax stubber on the RF Battle Cannon has been a thing since the first IK release. I believe the normal setup for the Gatling Cannon is an undermount heavy flamer, unless I missed a picture of it with a different undermounted gun, which would imply that you have a choice of weapon for that spot.

The Gatling Cannon comes with a heavy flamer mounted underneath, no other weapon options replace that one. The shoulder-mounted heavy stubber however can be replaced by a regular meltagun.

**SirDonlad**

Wouldn't it be nice if they change the battle cannon's coaxial heavy stubber to actually be co-axial to the battle cannon?

**Panic**

yeah,
Got a few brush off emails...
Basically worthless lip service that GW customer service accepts returns if still shrink wrapped...
Nothing that addresses the short lifespan of the 2014 codex.

Spoiler:

TLDR - GW Don't Care if you bought the 2014 codex to field your knights.

Panic...

**Bull0**

Should they? I mean, I'm not defending it, but if you look at a book and think "This is only worth having if it's going to last X years before being "invalidated", which there is no guarantee it will"... do *not* buy the book, because you're going to have a bad time.

Buy a codex because you like the contents and want to have it, don't buy it because it's your license to play that army in tournaments or whatever for the next 4-5 years - that just isn't the model anymore and hasn't been for a while.

I didn't buy the 2014 Knight book because with 2 unit entries in it, it was objectively a gak book. Besides, the basic Knight rules were in WD, so I mean...

**Vallonzek**

Blacksails wrote:
easysauce wrote:
is there any info on the detachment that comes with the web bundle of 5 knights for house tyrren?

Send me $940 and I can tell you.

I bought the web exclusive bundle because why not, got to do something with that deployment money.

**NoggintheNog**

Bull0 wrote:
Should they? I mean, I'm not defending it, but if you look at a book and think "This is only worth having if it's going to last X years before being "invalidated", which there is no guarantee it will"... do *not* buy the book, because you're going to have a bad time.

Buy a codex because you like the contents and want to have it, don't buy it because it's your license to play that army in tournaments or whatever for the next 4-5 years - that just isn't the model anymore and hasn't been for a while.

I didn't buy the 2014 Knight book because with 2 unit entries in it, it was objectively a gak book. Besides, the basic Knight rules were in WD, so I mean...

I would agree with you if this was the norm, but replacing a codex in a year is not something they have done before, and as such those who bought it could not be expected to understand the limited lifespan of the book at all.

I thought it was a crock from day one, but plenty bought it, and I think they are right to feel this new one is something of a slap in the face.

**Bull0**

They have cause to be annoyed in that the original book was weak, and that the new version looks better, but that was more of a good reason not to buy the original book rather than a reason to deserve a refund now there's a better one. You decided at the time you wanted the book, weaknesses and all, you bought it, you've used it, there's nothing stopping you from continuing to use it except that you want the stuff in the newer version (and/or you want to play in tournaments I guess? I don't really know how that works but I assume you need to use the latest rules in tournaments).

It rarely pays to be an early adopter, and GW would be crazy not to release a better book if they've got one in them - since it'll sell more Knight boxes. For those whose butts aren't hurt about a newer version coming out, this newer, rumoured to be better book is a good thing!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course, the better option would be to release a free supplementary PDF or something with extra gubbins in, to be used in conjunction with the previous Knight book, but to GW's perverse way of thinking that's leaving money on the table... "free" is a dirty word to modern GW :(

**bubber**

I wonder if that means I can trade in my epub version??

**BrookM**

Not sure if mentioned already, but the Warden will have a new transfer sheet (White Dwarf Weekly #66, page 6)

**em_en_oh_pee**

BrookM wrote:
Not sure if mentioned already, but the Warden will have a new transfer sheet (White Dwarf Weekly #66, page 6)

Pics or it didn't happen. I looked on their website and it shows the same old one, I believe.

**BrookM**

em_en_oh_pee wrote:
BrookM wrote:
Not sure if mentioned already, but the Warden will have a new transfer sheet (White Dwarf Weekly #66, page 6)

Pics or it didn't happen. I looked on their website and it shows the same old one, I believe.

Hence why I put in the source of the information.. It's from a blurb about the new kit.

edit.

The one shown on the site is A NEW ONE.

OLD ONE.

**AllSeeingSkink**

It's a "new sheet" but it appears to have the exact same decals as the old ones, just the bottom section is laid out slightly different.

**em_en_oh_pee**

So they are essentially the exact same thing though. Like... two "new" things on the "new" one, but none of the Heraldry for other Houses. Dammit, GW. You had this one chance! If they had put the other House heraldry in the new kit, it would have been a smart push for those looking for them just from a sales pov.

C'est la vie. Time to get back on eBay and look for some House Griffith decals.

**Fishboy**

Bull0 wrote:
Should they? I mean, I'm not defending it, but if you look at a book and think "This is only worth having if it's going to last X years before being "invalidated", which there is no guarantee it will"... do *not* buy the book, because you're going to have a bad time.

Buy a codex because you like the contents and want to have it, don't buy it because it's your license to play that army in tournaments or whatever for the next 4-5 years - that just isn't the model anymore and hasn't been for a while.

I didn't buy the 2014 Knight book because with 2 unit entries in it, it was objectively a gak book. Besides, the basic Knight rules were in WD, so I mean...

Actually the hard back book was invalidated a matter of a few months after its release due to an FAQ. I am in the same camp as Panic here and by the way Panic, GW has not responded to my email.

**aka_mythos**

Fishboy wrote:
Bull0 wrote:
Should they? I mean, I'm not defending it, but if you look at a book and think "This is only worth having if it's going to last X years before being "invalidated", which there is no guarantee it will"... do *not* buy the book, because you're going to have a bad time.

Buy a codex because you like the contents and want to have it, don't buy it because it's your license to play that army in tournaments or whatever for the next 4-5 years - that just isn't the model anymore and hasn't been for a while.

I didn't buy the 2014 Knight book because with 2 unit entries in it, it was objectively a gak book. Besides, the basic Knight rules were in WD, so I mean...

Actually the hard back book was invalidated a matter of a few months after its release due to an FAQ. I am in the same camp as Panic here and by the way Panic, GW has not responded to my email.

We shouldn't be surprised about this. They'd give you guys the exact same answers to emails if you bought last years codex this Friday thinking it's the new one. They'd probably also tell you they "hope you enjoy it." They sell something with a designed obsolescence; they're not going to feel guilt or remorse they're gonna pat themselves on the back for selling the "new book."

**Bull0**

It's not that I don't understand the complaint, it's just that my advice is not to buy codices thinking "I need this to play X army for the next X years", buy it because you like the book and the contents and let all other considerations be secondary since they're totally unpredictable. That way you aren't going to be disappointed!

**Azreal13**

The only primary concern for buying a codex is for the army rules. Fluff and pics really are secondary, especially as much of it is rehashed in the existing factions and if you've been around the carousel at least once you'll already own much of it.

It is totally reasonable to buy a codex expecting 3 years+ wear out of it because, well, decades of precedent.

That said, even this situation wouldn't be irredeemable if in WD or somewhere they acknowledged the situation and just said "we really felt the need to expand the IK book, and we hope you appreciate we're doing this for the benefit of the game." Or something similar, rather than their usual asshattery from behind the fortress wall.

Personally, I'm now thinking that last year's release was a rush job to try and prop up the sales figures and this book is, in reality, the finished version of the IK book.

**Bull0**

It was definitely a rush job, and buying it was a bad idea. People who bought it because, Ok, it's a crap book, but it's my way of playing Knights, are the ones who are disappointed by the news. So really my advice is not to buy crap books. If it was a good book, you wouldn't be disappointed, because it's still a good book. The rules don't evaporate when newer ones come out; I'm sure outside of tournaments you're fine to continue using them for a while yet.

**Azreal13**

So people shouldn't have been enthusiastic about a fantastic new model and shouldn't have bought the necessary rules supplement to field them because there may have been an unprecedented update in 12 months?

If I'd been looking to buy the new codex for a new faction this time last year, there'd have been plenty of reasons I may have considered for and against the purchase, but being replaced next year wouldn't have entered my thinking.

I'm sure people will be fine with others running the old book, as long as they don't want to use any of the expanded options that the new one offers.

**DarkTraveler777**

Bull0 wrote:
It was definitely a rush job, and buying it was a bad idea. People who bought it because, Ok, it's a crap book, but it's my way of playing Knights, are the ones who are disappointed by the news. So really my advice is not to buy crap books. If it was a good book, you wouldn't be disappointed, because it's still a good book. The rules don't evaporate when newer ones come out; I'm sure outside of tournaments you're fine to continue using them for a while yet.

You are just trolling at this point, right?

**Wilson**

Points costs for knights as per tg boards;

Crusader 425
- Gallant 325
- Warden 375
- Paladin 375
- Errant 370

**buddha**

Wilson wrote:
Points costs for knights as per tg boards;

Crusader 425
- Gallant 325
- Warden 375
- Paladin 375
- Errant 370

Thanks, I was afraid the crusader would be pricey.

**Talys**

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Bull0 wrote:
It was definitely a rush job, and buying it was a bad idea. People who bought it because, Ok, it's a crap book, but it's my way of playing Knights, are the ones who are disappointed by the news. So really my advice is not to buy crap books. If it was a good book, you wouldn't be disappointed, because it's still a good book. The rules don't evaporate when newer ones come out; I'm sure outside of tournaments you're fine to continue using them for a while yet.

You are just trolling at this point, right?

Actually, I totally agree with Bull0. The original Codex Imperial Knights was JUNK. There were 7 pages of game material, and basically nothing more than some painting schematics in the rest of the book. There was barely any fluff, and really NO reason to buy it. You can literally photocopy all the useful pages in 1 minute.

I purchased the original book (though not right away), because we usually play at my place, and I have a full set of books that we refer to. However, I knew going in that it was junk, and I knew that I was going to complain forever that I paid a bunch of money for junk.

The NEW book might be slightly better value. Maybe not, or maybe just barely. There is probably still so little content that it's easily photocopy-able; after all, no matter how you cut it, we're still talking about 5 variations of 1 kit. I mean, imagine Codex Space Marines based on only Rhino chassis models, or Codex AM based on only chimera models.

Either way: the lesson is, don't buy a book unless you see value in it (or don't care, and want it anyhow), because no matter how long it takes to replace it, or how short, a crap book is a crap book. Frankly, the ideal situation would have been if nobody bought the original crap book, and they quickly came out with a replacement better book. OTOH, none of my friends, who all own most of the books, bought IK (they left it to me, yay). The solution is not to complain about the replacement better book, it's not to buy a crap book in the first place.

In comparison, the 6e SM book was wonderful. I've had great use from it, and it was a great improvement over its predecessor. 2 years later a 7e SM book -- if it's as good as the 6e one, I won't mind paying for it at all. It's not how much a book cost me, it's how much enjoyment/entertainment that I derived from it and how useful it was to my hobby and game time.

**em_en_oh_pee**

buddha wrote:
Wilson wrote:
Points costs for knights as per tg boards;

Crusader 425
- Gallant 325
- Warden 375
- Paladin 375
- Errant 370

Thanks, I was afraid the crusader would be pricey.

100+ more points than a WK. People are going to raise hell for that.

Really, really glad the Gallant is a lot cheaper. Might take those if they can take the good missile option, giving it some shooting on top of a load of D CC attacks.

Any word on the formations? That is what I am dying to hear about. And I wonder if GW will toss out an FAQ for the AdLance to allow these new Knights... won't hold my breath, of course.

**Samurai_Eduh**

Anyone else buy the 5 Knight bundle with the special rules?

**Panic**

yeah,
The previous normal codex cycle release was 3-4 years with some codex going 7 or more between editions.
There was no indication this was a stop gap codex and the full codex would come out next year.

This a New codex released the year after the first is unprecedented.
Bullo is correct I feel foolish purchasing a codex with only two units that lasted only 1 year.

Panic...

**Flashman**

Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Anyone else buy the 5 Knight bundle with the special rules?

No, occasionally I like to have money in my bank account

**Talys**

@Panic - the problem, really, is that the v1 codex was not more than White Dwarf content packaged into a $50 hardcover. My issue is not really with the v2 codex; I mean, why not replace a junk book. Just because some people (including me) bought it doesn't make it any less crappy

@Wilson - thanks for posting up the new knight points. In wonder if early snapshots of the codex will leak today...

**SirDonlad**

Bull0 wrote:
It was definitely a rush job, and buying it was a bad idea. People who bought it because, Ok, it's a crap book, but it's my way of playing Knights, are the ones who are disappointed by the news. So really my advice is not to buy crap books. If it was a good book, you wouldn't be disappointed, because it's still a good book. The rules don't evaporate when newer ones come out; I'm sure outside of tournaments you're fine to continue using them for a while yet.

No, the reason i bought it was because the rules which were featured in the WD at the time didn't have a bunch of the new charts - it told you the weapon needed the d-weapon chart but didn't give you said chart or the stomp chart either; we were still using 6th edition at the time so you HAD TO buy the codex just to get the stupid charts - and now i'm a mug for buying it without knowing the FAQ would cut the entire codex?
I have every right to be f~*#ed-off with GW for that - what exactly was i supposed to do then? develop the power of fore-sight so i'd know there were only two profiles?

Bully for you that you are happy to wait for over a year to use your new model with a book that you're satisfied with; but i expect rules at the same time as a model release and i also expect not to have my codexes invalidated within a matter of months..

**angelofvengeance**

Panic wrote:
yeah,
The previous normal codex cycle release was 3-4 years with some codex going 7 or more between editions.
There was no indication this was a stop gap codex and the full codex would come out next year.

This a New codex released the year after the first is unprecedented.
Bullo is correct I feel foolish purchasing a codex with only two units that lasted only 1 year.

Panic...

Kinda glad I dodged that release then. Might go for it this time around though, now there's 5 (full plastic) and the FW variants to pick from.