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Were there really people buying up Beastmen armies on ebay throughout 7th edition?

I mean if you just want the models that's cool (I bought it second hand as well) but why would you want to buy up armies that can't function even if they are cheap? It's one thing to be underpowered, but another when the main strength of your army just got removed.

Of course I'm still hoping that the rumor is wrong since it's just so bad it's hard to believe.

I'm going to spam units of skink cohorts.

20 modles, 10 wide, muso and standard. Run at the enemy and pelt them with 20 poisoned javelins.
Then because it is thrown I can stand and shoot even if the charge is at close range.

Damn... here I was painting saurus.

I still think they are way too heavy handed on magic, and trying to kill off your expensive mages (and their units).
Get rid of 1 dice casting spam for VC and on the whole most problems dissapear.

Actually, get rid of the re-casting ability of Vampire spells and most of the problem goes away.

Therion wrote:Considering the missions don't have victory points or kill points and only core units with banners are scoring, you might want to invest in some of those said scoring units if you intend to win any games.

Or, you can just table your opponent...

Or, you can just table your opponent...

Yeah for example by using your scoring core units instead of monsters that can't break anything with frontal charges (and believe me most charges will be frontal since every unit has so many free reforms and skirmisher-like march movenent to wiggle away). You have to understand that if these rumours are accurate then monsters are support units that bring some casualty combat resolution for scoring infantry, not armies in their own right. It's going to take a Bloodthirster the entire game to chew through a measly unit of 25 Orcs or Goblins unless he brings a big bunch of PBs or Daemonettes to help him. That's a huge change and I believe some armies will benefit from not using any other HQ units at all except a mandatory el cheapo general.

I'm going to spam units of skink cohorts.

Not a bad idea I guess. I'm thinking that if armour piercing stay as is I'd take a few 20 strong DE xbow units that fire with every model from 2 ranks of 10 models and if necessary reform to 4 ranks of 5 for combat, and support them with a few 10 strong (2 ranks of 5) xbow units that shoot with every model all the time. Something like 80 of these guys should be good.

I heard the book was going to be a monolithic 500 page tome. Don't know if that's been repeated elsewhere, or accurate, but it's what I heard.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I heard the book was going to be a monolithic 500 page tome. Don't know if that's been repeated elsewhere, or accurate, but it's what I heard.

Yeah its on the OP first post:

528+ pages. Full colour

Its a Huge brick! I hope it has nice pictures

And first Unit of 50 gobbos archers 10 wide is almost done... if half of the rank behind the 2nd shoots thats a total of 35 gobbo arrows if the rumours prove to be false its just a cool fat unit to look at.

Well, sad to say but I'm bowing out.

The one thing that I thought this edition was really going to have going for it was killing herohammer with 25% max characters. As it now seems you can have 50% I'll be taking my business elsewhere.

After all if I want a game which is all about uber-characters whacking each other with token support from the rest of the army, I'll just play Hordes...

Chimera_Calvin wrote:Well, sad to say but I'm bowing out.

The one thing that I thought this edition was really going to have going for it was killing herohammer with 25% max characters. As it now seems you can have 50% I'll be taking my business elsewhere.

After all if I want a game which is all about uber-characters whacking each other with token support from the rest of the army, I'll just play Hordes...

Haha I couldnt agree more... Although Im now bowing out till I see official rules... This is a fairly large scale game and should be more about the core army and not a few guys in cooler looking gear...

H.B.M.C. wrote:I heard the book was going to be a monolithic 500 page tome. Don't know if that's been repeated elsewhere, or accurate, but it's what I heard.

I can confirm it as I have seen the official GW poster advertising it.
And much of the space is for full colour pictures.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I'm going to spam units of skink cohorts.

So nothing new since 6th edition?

Therion wrote:Not a bad idea I guess. I'm thinking that if armour piercing stay as is I'd take a few 20 strong DE xbow units that fire with every model from 2 ranks of 10 models and if necessary reform to 4 ranks of 5 for combat, and support them with a few 10 strong (2 ranks of 5) xbow units that shoot with every model all the time. Something like 80 of these guys should be good.

Which leaves me every time I look at an army with decent shooting (Empire, HEs, DEs, now Lizzies, Wood elves especially, Tomb kings) I always end up with somewhere in the vicinity of 100-160 archers/x-bows/handguns/javelins and then warmachines as well at 2000 points and above.

2 ranks just opens up shooting spam.

Fast cav get a free move pre game- who cares? They can't charge turn 1 if they do that so your gunline is safe, and they will be so far forward they will be left unsupported and get blown away from 1-2 units of shooters.

skyth wrote:Actually, get rid of the re-casting ability of Vampire spells and most of the problem goes away.

The reason they gave the recasting ability to necromantic spells was because in 6th edition it was way too easy to just save scrolls for the important raising or movement spells that Vampire armies need to function and screw over their battle plans. Most Vampire lists require magic effects and when you can just load up on scroll caddies and dispel dice you need some way to force through something. There's few ways to just "turn off" Empire shooting or Chaos close combat so Vampires need something to get their magic phase. In addition now that Invocation only raises D6 models it would be crippling if that was a one time cast.

A more fair compromise (since I admit raising lists are unfun to play against) would make spells have a raised casting value for every successful cast so that it would be harder to just spam raise on 1D6 over and over. Additionally Van's Dance should not be a 7 since that is way too cheap for a movement spell. If it was a high casting value and required 3 dice to get off reliably, recasting it wouldn't be as easy. I don't know why people still complain about Vampire Counts since they aren't even top tier anymore.



In regards to 8th edition with 25% heros, 25% lords, MR adding to ward save, all range firing in two ranks and breath weapons hitting in combat I'm going to get some serious schadenfreude when the current top armies continue to destroy everyone else and people who thought that we'd be back to infantry being useful are super dissapointed. Unless something big is missing from the puzzle everything here strengthens most top tier lists with the exception of the Engine spam lizardmen armies.

The funniest part of 25% Lord 25% hero is that is allows armies with absurdly expensive Lord choices (Vampire, Demons, etc) that people complain about to have a higher percentage of their armies as characters that ones with cheaper Lords.

Can you take multiple Lords within that percentage? I didn't think so, but since I keep hearing there are no "slots" anymore, I'm not sure?

I think there must be something to limit the number of characters, other than percentages... even if it's only in the erratas for each army book.

RiTides wrote:Can you take multiple Lords within that percentage? I didn't think so, but since I keep hearing there are no "slots" anymore, I'm not sure?

I think there must be something to limit the number of characters, other than percentages... even if it's only in the erratas for each army book.

I think percentages means that multiple Lords are possible. This is great for Skaven (2000pts) as you could have a Warlord for your proper army general, but also a Grey Seer to throw out some proper hard hitting magic rather than a load of warp lightning engineers. You could also take an unusual lord like Throt the Unclean whose benefits don't outweigh the absence of a proper leader and then provide a decent general from your allowance.

No Kroak in 2000pts lists though

Which is why they want us to 'start' playing at 3000 points Flashman.

They just reset the 'average game' higher so you can still take all the OTT stuff.

With all this talk of 3,000 point armies, what's this going to mean for new players or players hoping to get back into WHFB? Do you think there will be special rules for fighting smaller points cost games or would that be the aim of the boxed set that's coming later this year?

@ Gonads - Kroak can just about squeeze into 2500pts, but yes armies with Lord choices costing more than 500pts are going to feel a little non-plussed at having their minimum army size upped by 500-1000pts.

Not a massive problem for my rats though (which at the rate I paint, would never get to 3000pts!).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bloodwin wrote:With all this talk of 3,000 point armies, what's this going to mean for new players or players hoping to get back into WHFB? Do you think there will be special rules for fighting smaller points cost games or would that be the aim of the boxed set that's coming later this year?

Lower point games will still be playabe, but it just means there might not be as much hard hitting stuff in your games. Although ironically with 25% Lords, you could pop a high level Wizard into most 1000pt lists.

The funniest part of 25% Lord 25% hero is that is allows armies with absurdly expensive Lord choices (Vampire, Demons, etc) that people complain about to have a higher percentage of their armies as characters that ones with cheaper Lords.

I don't understand this. The stock Vampire Lord supported by a regen-banner Wight King and the stock secondary Vampire cost something like 900 points and these are just 3 characters without monstrous mounts. They're approaching the 50% on heroes mark.

The only thing that will be new is the option to use tons of small heroes as somewhat improved unit champions. I see no problems with this as none of the heroes in question are particularly strong or particularly worrying in the new system. Seriously, I will spend my points on scoring units that can kill instead of killing units that can't score. If you disagree with that approach atleast reconsider arguing that the exact opposite approach to mine is a brokenly overpowered one. The spam of heroes being totally garbage and underpowered sounds much more likely.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:Well, sad to say but I'm bowing out.

The one thing that I thought this edition was really going to have going for it was killing herohammer with 25% max characters. As it now seems you can have 50% I'll be taking my business elsewhere.

After all if I want a game which is all about uber-characters whacking each other with token support from the rest of the army, I'll just play Hordes...

This sums up my thoughts on the new version I was very happy with the rumor changes until this came out.

Yeah, looks like I may be leaving the game and sticking with Warmachine & Hordes.

I've been not liking WHFB much lately as it is, and these changes don't do much to make me want to come back.

Therion wrote:

The funniest part of 25% Lord 25% hero is that is allows armies with absurdly expensive Lord choices (Vampire, Demons, etc) that people complain about to have a higher percentage of their armies as characters that ones with cheaper Lords.

I don't understand this. The stock Vampire Lord supported by a regen-banner Wight King and the stock secondary Vampire cost something like 900 points and these are just 3 characters without monstrous mounts. They're approaching the 50% on heroes mark.

The only thing that will be new is the option to use tons of small heroes as somewhat improved unit champions. I see no problems with this as none of the heroes in question are particularly strong or particularly worrying in the new system. Seriously, I will spend my points on scoring units that can kill instead of killing units that can't score. If you disagree with that approach atleast reconsider arguing that the exact opposite approach to mine is a brokenly overpowered one. The spam of heroes being totally garbage and underpowered sounds much more likely.

I guess I am still thinking in the 1 Lord 3 hero for 2k mindset. If you are allowed to spam as many lords as you want then you will be able to take more advantage of that 25%. However taking tons of scoring units won't be as amazing when you are shooting them off the field with artillery. I guess the game could turn into a stream of crappy cheap scoring units hoping that enough survive the shooting phase to jump on that objective but that sounds incredibly un-fun to play.

This is mainly for the UK, but I'm guessing overseas will get this as well..

The new edition of Warhammer is released on 10th July. But, from Tuesday 15th June your local Hobby Centre will be running loads of exciting introductory and demonstration games for you to take part in using the brand new rulebook.

Introductory Games
If you've never played Warhammer before, introductory games are a fantastic way to learn about the ultimate Game of Fantasy Battles. You'll experience the rules in an exciting way and quickly get into the heart of the action.

In Warhammer you will: Command huge units of infantry and cavalry, use artillery batteries to smash your opponent into the ground, unleash towering monsters to strike fear into the hearts of your adversaries, and lay waste to whole armies with powerful magic.

Demonstration Games
If you've played Warhammer before, a demonstration game will provide you with a great opportunity to learn all about the new edition.

Find out how to tip the balance in your favour, encounter new threats on the battlefield, and rediscover the arcane secrets of sorcery. This is a world where victory and death rest upon a knife-edge and the fate of the world, be it damnation or salvation, will soon be decided.

Warhammer, the Game of Fantasy Battles is released on July 10th, but don't wait until then: get down to your local store from 15th June and let battle commence.

linky

Very interesting.

I laugh at those who say they are bowing out when they haven't seen the actual rulebook.

reds8n wrote:This is mainly for the UK, but I'm guessing overseas will get this as well..

The new edition of Warhammer is released on 10th July. But, from Tuesday 15th June your local Hobby Centre will be running loads of exciting introductory and demonstration games for you to take part in using the brand new rulebook.

Introductory Games
If you've never played Warhammer before, introductory games are a fantastic way to learn about the ultimate Game of Fantasy Battles. You'll experience the rules in an exciting way and quickly get into the heart of the action.

In Warhammer you will: Command huge units of infantry and cavalry, use artillery batteries to smash your opponent into the ground, unleash towering monsters to strike fear into the hearts of your adversaries, and lay waste to whole armies with powerful magic.

Demonstration Games
If you've played Warhammer before, a demonstration game will provide you with a great opportunity to learn all about the new edition.

Find out how to tip the balance in your favour, encounter new threats on the battlefield, and rediscover the arcane secrets of sorcery. This is a world where victory and death rest upon a knife-edge and the fate of the world, be it damnation or salvation, will soon be decided.

Warhammer, the Game of Fantasy Battles is released on July 10th, but don't wait until then: get down to your local store from 15th June and let battle commence.

linky

Yeah my local US store has already said that the 15th is when they are allowed to start demos.

Flashman wrote:@ Gonads - Kroak can just about squeeze into 2500pts, but yes armies with Lord choices costing more than 500pts are going to feel a little non-plussed at having their minimum army size upped by 500-1000pts.

Not a massive problem for my rats though (which at the rate I paint, would never get to 3000pts!).

Dipping is your friend(mine at least). Also, if you have the time, participate in the occasional 24 hour painting challenges on site like UnderEmpire(we should do a Dakka one...).

I'm hoping there's still a point value limit on Lords, though I wouldn't mind fielding a near naked Grey Seer at 1000 points.

I like how this edition is sounding.

Two Beastlords, two blocks of bestigors.

Four Wargors, 4 blocks of Gors.

1 Jabberslythe.

Heh.

It doesn't seem to have been posted yet, but there's 8 pages of the new rulebook in the latest GW newsletter.

Which newsletter was that? I've not seen it, and I usually get them on time.

This one..

Since we announced the new edition of Warhammer back in April, the excitement has been slowly building. Across the land hobbyists have begun gathering their forces in preparation of the mighty battles that lie ahead; in hushed whispers they've talked about what might lie within the 528-pages of the new Warhammer rulebook. Well prepare to ramp your excitement up a notch - Warhammer will be available to advance order from the 15th of June. Inspired by the clockwork creations of the engineers of Altdorf, we've today added a swish countdown clock to games-workshop.com, so you'll know exactly how many minutes and seconds to go before you can order your copy.

To thank you for subscribing to our newsletter (these images won't be shown anywhere else!) we thought we'd give you a sneak peek inside the new book. And don't forget that June's issue of White Dwarf is out this weekend and contains more exclusive information and pictures from the new Warhammer rulebook.

Enjoy.

I want that terrain SO badly.