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2015/01/06 20:05:28
Subject: Mantis Creations Kickstarter - Mantis Model Storage Case
To make things a little clearer for those outside of the UK. Citylink were a very large (if not the largest) parcel delivery company in the UK. A lot of international parcels are also sent from the UK via Citylink (they have agreement with companies in other countries to handle the local deliveries). I believe Mantis were using them for all deliveries. On Christmas Day they want into administration with a lot of undelivered parcels.
If Mantis shipped just before Christmas then the parcels will be in limbo for the moment and the same will apply if Mantis were awaiting a bult foam delivery which is now in a depot somewhere preventing them from making the next set of boxes.
I have backed the project and waiting for 3 boxes, was hoping to get them before Christmas so I could use my break to assemble my Shadows of Bristone figures so was a tiny bit disappointed about that but these things happen.
I expect any Kickstarter to be delayed by at least 6 months as most project creators are setting up a business for the first time and don't appreciate just how tricky and time consuming business can be.
The small criticism I would have is the project creator often posts a small update or make a comment to say that he will post a proper update that evening but then not post it for a few days but this is a young man studying at university and working on a pretty big project in his spare time. He is going to be running a zombicide suitable case kickstarter later in the year and I will definitely be back for it as long as I am happy with the quality of the boxes I receive (judging by the production photos and early reviews I hopefully will be).
2015/01/07 02:41:38
Subject: Mantis Creations Kickstarter - Mantis Model Storage Case
I didn’t want a repeat like the other backer (10 case pledge) who was causing problems in the main comments section, the comments on the updates, through PM’s on the kickstarter and on another site. Despite me and other backers explaining to him endlessly he refused to listen or respond to me and kept accusing me I will never deliver the cases.
I explained to you the situation in the comments section but it wasn’t enough for you and I didn’t want another repeat so I gave you the refund. And from the PM’s you sent me I made the right choice.
I believe the problem you two share is that you ignore the fact I am a one man show. Whenever there’s a problem I have to drop everything to resolve it and therefore hinders the pace of the kickstarter.
To everyone else
The City Link issue as mentioned by the other posters here has brought me immense problems and resulted with the UK backers getting their cases postponed until the beginning of the month.
Obviously I would have liked to have delivered all the cases by now but with problems arising (explained in the updates) the backers have been understanding and very patient with me. They clearly understand what I’m going through and like my products enough to trust me. I would have loved to have some workers to accelerate this kickstarter but no one wanted the job. In retrospect I somewhat appreciate working alone as the trials during the course have gave me so much experience from lesions learned I would have most likely not gotten with assistance which I can now use in future kickstarters.
Believe me, I want to get all these cases out as much as you want them in your hands so I can do the Zcide kickstarter. I have the Zcide trays in front of me and players will be very surprised. And with the bags being developed backers from the first kickstarter will be delighted too.
I can’t wait to do my Zcide kickstarter, the 40K one and the others I have in development (quite a lot). Seriously you guys will love some of these and the innovations I’m bringing to the community.
Thanks again for the support in this thread and I’d be more than happy to answer any questions.
The small criticism I would have is the project creator often posts a small update or make a comment to say that he will post a proper update that evening but then not post it for a few days but this is a young man studying at university and working on a pretty big project in his spare time. He is going to be running a zombicide suitable case kickstarter later in the year and I will definitely be back for it as long as I am happy with the quality of the boxes I receive (judging by the production photos and early reviews I hopefully will be).
I understand this view completely and I am guilty of not posting the update on time. I like to reflect on everything during the week and then do the update Sunday night, but as you point out I have a lot of things going on. I aim to deliver the updates on time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/09 22:38:57
Wow... anytime someone is that defensive to the slightest criticism is a huge red flag to me.
Those comments were extremely tame! And even if they had not been (read them below in the spoilers for yourself) it is the right of backers to give criticism, as long as it is reasonable. To refund them months later the same amount without delivering means that you netted a decent amount of interest off of their pledge, as well.
Definitely not a fan of that approach... the comments in question are spoilered below. What company hasn't faced comments like this? Imo, this is about as far from a "trouble maker" as you can get...
Spoiler:
RoninXiC wrote: Jan Goldbeck about 9 hours ago
And I'd like to see the cases in my posession... It's taking way too long in my opinion. I know the success has been bigger than anticipated, but come on.
Creator Mantis Creations about 4 hours ago
You'll have to wait like everyone else Jan. I'm still resolving the City Link issue. Be patient. ..
Jan Goldbeck about 4 hours ago
That issue shouldn't effect me as a non UK costumer who has been waiting for 4 more months than orignally planed.
Mike Earley about 4 hours ago
I think a lot of this is out of Tyron's control. City Link for one, and his warehouse being closed during holiday for another. I haven't gotten my 2 cases in the US either, and I'm excited to get them, but I'm willing to be patient and trust Tyron. He is a friend of mine, I speak with him regularly, and basically he is constantly stressed about doing the right thing and making sure everything is taken care of properly, so just know his attention is on this as much as you want it to be.
Creator Mantis Creations about 3 hours ago
Appreciate it Mike. I know you and many others understand and trust me enough to be a patient with me.
Jan Goldbeck about 3 hours ago
He is not a friend of mine. He is a company I entrusted with my money for a September release. I understand that problems occurred, but I don't see that as a reason to be this late.
Again, he is not my friend. Why would you even mention that?
And 5 minutes later my pledge had been deleted.
Nothing there that would have gotten more than a "this is still what's happening" statement from most creators/companies/business people. This, and the public comments you made when people did not flock to fill the manual labor position you were advertising, are not a good way to approach customers, imo. It would be better not to respond, than to respond over the top (by deleting the pledge) or defensively, when the criticism is by no means unreasonable. Of course the campaign will struggle to deliver on time with the success it saw, so just say as much, and move on in the future!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/10 00:15:29
2015/01/10 00:54:04
Subject: Mantis Creations Kickstarter - Mantis Model Storage Case
This is completely different, I don't mind criticism or objective opinions, the problem is you're viewing this through a small portion of text. If you were a backer you would have seen the other guy who was causing problems, accusing me of all sorts, and it started off like RoninXiC and I don't want that again so I gave him a refund and then he showed his true colours in PM. This is no different than a store owner kicking out a trouble maker or Dakka banning a poster.
I also don't know where you're getting the idea I'm making interest from my decision, they get the full refund and I make nothing.
You should gather all the facts before accusing me of wrong doings.
So because some other guy started making a lot of trouble you kicked a second backer who had not actually done that "in case" he arced up to the same degree before he could do so?
No, that's bs.
Perhaps people shouldn't back your future KS or support your business before you have the opportunity to take their money and run?
No, he has all the information. You kicked me because you wanted to limit the amount of negativity in the comments. Seems you I made the right choice to voice my opinion. Some others have now come forward and voiced their own problems.
No one claimed you to have taken the money and done nothing with it. I myself clearly did never imply any of that.
What I said, is that I'm displeased with a project soon to be half a year late. Yes, I admitted that your project ran into quite some problems,but that does not free you of any responsibility to answer questions.
You claim to have answer all my information, but you clearly didn't. You could've given a timeframe, told me my position in line and a more or less fixed time of delivery. If you'd done so, I would've accepted another delay. But you didn't you were extremely unfriendly, even insulted my in a personal PM, and showed to me that you are not prepared to do this company thing as of yet.
I don't mean to harm you personally, let me clear that up. I don't know you and would see no point in attacking someone I have no information about. What I criticised was your way to treat your costumers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/10 06:29:07
2015/01/10 08:01:12
Subject: Mantis Creations Kickstarter - Mantis Model Storage Case
Tyron wrote: Azazelx you have the same limited information as RiTides so your assertions are unfounded.
I don't see where I am taking money and running, but I do see you always coming into my threads and bring little to them.
I'm not actually accusing you of taking the money and running, nor of planning to. I'm simply using the same logic of "what might happen" that you used to kick him out of your campaign to show how ridiculous it is.
As for "always coming into your threads" and "bringing little to them." Really? Let's see.. you've started 40 threads.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/recentTopics/showTopicsByUser/10223.page Let's see just how many I've replied in as from memory I've barely posted in any of your threads, but if you're expecting sycophancy for no real reason then I think you're in the wrong place. My replies:
Not sure what you're trying to suggest with your comments on the quality of my "always" posting in "your" threads? Well, four of them - out of eleven that deal specifically with selling your cases. That you only like fellative posts? Jokes not allowed in "your" threads?
So excepting these two current posts - I've posted 5 times in total over a time period of 4 months (the last being 4 months ago). Indeed, 1 asking about product, 2 jokes, 2 complimentary. Certainly nothing rude, and nothing unpleasant. Unfortunately now due to your combative and aggressive replies here, you've changed my opinion from someone who liked your products and may/probably would have have purchased some one day to someone who now actively dislikes you on a couple of levels. so I'll no longer be considering your products, and I'll probably point out your rudeness on my blog next time I mention Kickstarters - and perhaps in other threads that you start here.
You've just gone out of your way to be insulting, now I'll return the favour in my own way.
Tyron, I was serious in my advice above - as someone trying to run a business, you gain literally nothing by responding sarcastically or defensively to criticism. You'd be much better off not responding it all! Despite your sarcasm above, you will find that that does indeed occur - people avoiding a product because they don't like the attitude / customer interaction of the company / owner.
Why shoot yourself in the foot in this way? Simply apologizing for the delay, and saying you're doing the best you can given XYZ circumstances, is usually enough for people.
But canceling someone's pledge preemptively before they've said anything out of line, because they might do so in the future, and then coming into a forum to be combative about it, is just a no-win situation for you. I would avoid repeating this in the future, as this kind of interaction has zero upside for your business, and plenty of potential downside.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/10 13:48:36
2015/01/10 14:11:34
Subject: Mantis Creations Kickstarter - Mantis Model Storage Case
RiTides wrote: Tyron, I was serious in my advice above - as someone trying to run a business, you gain literally nothing by responding sarcastically or defensively to criticism. You'd be much better off not responding it all! Despite your sarcasm above, you will find that that does indeed occur - people avoiding a product because they don't like the attitude / customer interaction of the company / owner.
Why shoot yourself in the foot in this way? Simply apologizing for the delay, and saying you're doing the best you can given XYZ circumstances, is usually enough for people.
But canceling someone's pledge preemptively before they've said anything out of line, because they might do so in the future, and then coming into a forum to be combative about it, is just a no-win situation for you. I would avoid repeating this in the future, as this kind of interaction has zero upside for your business, and plenty of potential downside.
Agree entirely. I'm patiently waiting for my Mantis cases, along with a number of other KS's - I understand that delays happen. However, it's not great to see the creator of anything that I have handed over money for acting like this, and as a prospective customer, it is certainly something that would put me off from ever ordering from a company in the future.
The first backer I refunded started accusing me of having no intentions of sending out the cases when I started delaying due to problems arising.
In my updates I showed plenty of pictures with all the foam trays and boxes and ensured him they will be delivered. It wasn’t enough for him, he never responded to me and he kept making posts on the comments section and in the updates.
Eventually he asked for a refund and me and other backers tried to explain to him the reality of the situation. He then sent me PM’s on kickstarter and another website we go on but he never replied when I gave him an answer.
We (including the backers) got tired of this and I gave him the refund for his 10 case pledge and that was the end of it. Clearly he was wrong as I have sent out cases.
Now obviously you didn’t see any of this as you’re not a backer but the posters here on Dakka who are backers can confirm what happened.
The issue with RoniXiC was the red flags started showing after me and other backers explaining to him more than once the reality and it wasn’t enough for him. And I didn’t want to go through all that again and so gave him a refund. Out of 538 backers with 2 of them getting a refund that’s not bad in my books. I did feel bad refunding him but when RoniXiC sent me those colourful PM’s I knew I made the right decision.
As to your opinion on my response to Azazelx. The guy goes out of his way to snipe me when he could just walk away from the thread. He’s done this in another thread and in my opinion brought nothing but hostility (lack of a better word) towards me. And now he will expend more energy to defame me on his blog, it seems like he has a chip on his shoulder because from my memory I have hardly spoken to him.
Why waste your time and energy on a company you probably wasn’t going to buy from. That’s why I gave the sarcastic response, because I find what he does childish wasting whatever time he has on this earth doing this.
I believe I am experiencing what Romeo, Daryl and the others have gone through, but I don’t want to make the same decision and stop talking to the community.
As to your opinion on my response to Azazelx. The guy goes out of his way to snipe me when he could just walk away from the thread. He’s done this in another thread and in my opinion brought nothing but hostility (lack of a better word) towards me. And now he will expend more energy to defame me on his blog, it seems like he has a chip on his shoulder because from my memory I have hardly spoken to him.
Which other thread? Seriously? Check the links I posted above. I've posted in your threads five times before this, and they were quite positive.
I felt that you overreacted towards Ronin in this case and posted a reply that attempted to show you how ridiculous it was for you to kick him out of the campaign "in case he might" act like some other guy. You're acting ridiculous and immature here, and rather than apologising, you're doubling-down on the stupid. And so yeah, I am likely to use your own words and actions against you to point out (be careful with words like "defame", my son) how rude and immature you appear to be. If people choose to support someone who acts as you do, then good for them - but some of us - quite a lot, I imagine - will choose to do business with people who don't behave in the way you are choosing to.
So no chip, excepting the one that you just put there. My previous opinion on you before yesterday was generally neutral-to-positive, and as you've said, we've barely interacted. I thought that your cases looked good and that I'd possibly buy some one day. The only reason I didn't back your KS was because I didn't have the money at the time, and your Zombicide cases/foam certainly piqued my interest as well. Now you've just shat all over all that for no logical reason I can think of besides what I imagine is immaturity. It would be one thing to simply explain your PoV towards Ronin (which I disagree with, in case you haven't noticed) but to claim that I go into your threads and gak them up is patently ridiculous, as I've shown by going through your threads and picking out all of my posts - with links.
The lesson here is that as a business owner, especially a 1-man operation, you shouldn't go around insulting customers or potential customers - especially for no good reason.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/11 04:02:49
Alex C wrote: Just wanted to report that I got my 10+1 case order in Michigan, USA today!
All present and correct, nice quality too. Slight damage to one box but not a big deal.
Cheers Mantis!
Glad you like them!
Would be nice to see what you put in the trays
They'll be filled with all manner of Warmachine, Hordes, 40k, Deadzone, Dreadball, Super Dungeon, Wolsung, Dungeon Saga, Strange Aeons, Shadows of Brimstone and Conan goodies
Dropzone Commander, X-Wing and Zombicide have their own storage already
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 19:12:12
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2015/02/05 09:06:10
Subject: Mantis Creations Kickstarter - Mantis Model Storage Case
Alex C wrote: Just wanted to report that I got my 10+1 case order in Michigan, USA today!
All present and correct, nice quality too. Slight damage to one box but not a big deal.
Cheers Mantis!
Glad you like them!
Would be nice to see what you put in the trays
They'll be filled with all manner of Warmachine, Hordes, 40k, Deadzone, Dreadball, Super Dungeon, Wolsung, Dungeon Saga, Strange Aeons, Shadows of Brimstone and Conan goodies
Dropzone Commander, X-Wing and Zombicide have their own storage already
Lots of stuff then, message me if you have any problems.
Yonan wrote: Looking forward to my groups order of 17. Only 3 for me though /cries
I'm working on the 10 cases pledges so you'll get them soon!
Was about to post tonights update but just realised it's marked as for backers only so guess it's a etiquette no no.
It does say that the Zombicide case kickstarter may start this week which in my mind is a shame as I was intending to back it but as it is looking like another 2-3 months until I receive my cases from the first Kickstarter I don't really want to be backing a second without being able to check the quality of the cases from my initial pledge especially as I have Zombicide 1-3 with all expansions and KS extras I would be putting quite a bit more money on the line.
The reviews are all positive and I am sure they will be excellent cases but there is something about seeing them for yourself before putting down another £100+ on top of the £45 pledged last year.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/24 23:41:23
2015/02/26 05:51:41
Subject: Mantis Creations Kickstarter - Mantis Model Storage Case
Starting a new one months before complete fulfilment of the previous one? It's annoying enough when places like Mantic and CMoN do it, but caveat emptor indeed when it's a one-man show doing the same and shifting their focus from fulfilling the outstanding stuff to bringing in new/more money...
Aye. I'm extremely wary of a second Kickstarter being run while I'm still waiting for my pledge to arrive. Having run a kickstarter myself, I know how much of your time running those 30 days takes up - answering questions, working up stretch goals etc means less packing and posting pledges.
I think development and running of new campaigns should be banned until previous campaigns are completed. Should be a rule of the kickstarter terms and conditions. It's just morally wrong.
Never a fan of a new Kickstarter going up before the previous one is finished.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2015/03/02 01:38:00
Subject: Mantis Creations Kickstarter - Mantis Model Storage Case
I like the zombicide case but until I get my 10cases, I'm hesitant to put more money into any of your Kickstarters. But if you could have a $1 usd pledge that can be upgraded later on, that might be of interest to me
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
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