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We are probably an atypical group but as we don't play regularly with Malifaux (or indeed any system as it tends to be a different game each week) we often just use the same models that are "in the case" or which we vaguely know the rules for/ like the models and quite often select them before missions and may just make some minor changes.

It works fine when both players are similar but can be tricky if a visitor is more organised and professional about his selection.

On our forum one of our players was a talking about the benefits of familiarity with models and rules over list tailoring - not just for Malifaux but in general. So he has played basically the same malifaux list every game for a year - just so he knows what he is doing and found it beneficial but also helps him with the game / gave him a challenge which he has enjoyed.

I would have got bored with same models and list

Striped Skulker Model



Video in the link to the latest Update showing durability of the models (throwing them at the wall), not sure how to embed kickstarter videos -
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1334239018/the-other-side-9/posts/1786666?ref=activity


It was mentioned at the bottom of the update the option to substitute a hardback rulebook for $45 pledge manager credit:
"Lastly, I wanted to talk about the rulebook substitution for the Dual Commander pledge. If you are backing at the Dual Commander level, you will be able to substitute one of your rulebooks out for a Kickstarter credit of $45. This can be applied to any add on in the pledge manager."

Last couple of hours the KS has steadily climbed to 280k, so I think we'll at least see the next stretch goal.

Yeah it seems on-track to hit 300K which would be a decent turn out all things considered. I am still torn about backing this, I just cant decide if I should back it. I suppose if my brother backs it I will jump in also.

I caved

Partially as impetus to slim down my back stock, partially as I'll have at least a few other local players to throwdown with, partially as Dec 2017 is a decent time in my build schedule for the next year, but a lot because the game looks genuinely really interesting to me. I feel like I'm repeating myself, but this is the game I would have picked up post-WHFB, when I jumped into Malifaux + AOS instead.

- Salvage

ClockworkChaos wrote:
Yeah it seems on-track to hit 300K which would be a decent turn out all things considered. I am still torn about backing this, I just cant decide if I should back it. I suppose if my brother backs it I will jump in also.

Pledge for a buck if you're on the fence. If nothing else you'll get some info ont he design process as they move toward fulfillment.

Just hit 300K, so a free adjunct added now . The special edition Syndicate models are now being offered as add-ons for those that have pledged Dual and Tyrant ($25 each, similar to pricing of the limited edition stuff offered through their online store)..

Glad to see another freebie thrown in for backers. I feel this is another case of "too little too late" where Wyrd just doesnt get how to run a solid kickstarter. I will say it was done better than TTB, which had almost naked contempt for the platform. Maybe third time's the charm.

I backed for a buck to see the progress, but wasnt feeling this one. Retail pricing still seems too high... seriously, $55 for a bike?! $15-20 for a single restic 30mm guy? I dont like the pre-assembled aspect, since I've already seen mold lines on their production models which will be a pain to clean.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Glad to see another freebie thrown in for backers. I feel this is another case of "too little too late" where Wyrd just doesnt get how to run a solid kickstarter. I will say it was done better than TTB, which had almost naked contempt for the platform. Maybe third time's the charm.

I backed for a buck to see the progress, but wasnt feeling this one. Retail pricing still seems too high... seriously, $55 for a bike?! $15-20 for a single restic 30mm guy? I dont like the pre-assembled aspect, since I've already seen mold lines on their production models which will be a pain to clean.

Given all the other problems here, that last one seems like the biggest on to me - just what is up with their 'retail pricing' model?!?

I'll be honest, the pricing model isn't great. But watching the videos, like Malifaux you're unlikely to buy most units more than once, and they priced Malifaux high based on that same idea. The champions and adjuncts are the the only exception so their price also being high is disappointing.

The price point for the quality of the miniatures is really not good. Wyrd lost a bit credibility with me on this one.

I'm not seeing a problem with the quality. Prebuilt adds some issues with cleanup but the production models look on par with a lot of their HIPS stuff, which to be fair was never super detailed.

 -Loki- wrote:
I'll be honest, the pricing model isn't great. But watching the videos, like Malifaux you're unlikely to buy most units more than once, and they priced Malifaux high based on that same idea. The champions and adjuncts are the the only exception so their price also being high is disappointing.

Malifaux is $11 for a single 30mm guy in HIPS. The adjunct/commanders are $15 - $18, so a 50%-75% more for a similar model in a worse material. The rhino/eel are $50 in kickstarter, so who knows how much they'll be retail for maybe a 60mm based model! That the prices don't really compare favorably to Malifaux is a real issue IMO.

Didn't they mention that there would be a way to get TOTS models on sprue sometime in the future? I'll wait for that.

If we want to do a comparison to other games with preassembled miniatures of this type, the pricing really isn't great compared to Imperial Assault's prices.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Didn't they mention that there would be a way to get TOTS models on sprue sometime in the future? I'll wait for that.

Not on a sprue, just the unassembled PVC. It'll be only available direct from Wyrd, so you'll be looking at full MRSP too.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
If we want to do a comparison to other games with preassembled miniatures of this type, the pricing really isn't great compared to Imperial Assault's prices.

The production models that they've shown, however, look much better than Imperial Assault models which with a couple of exceptions are very soft on details. The material is also much, much bendier than they're showing with TOS, which has a little give so it doesn't snap when dropped but won't bend to almost 90 degrees like the IA weapons.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
I'll be honest, the pricing model isn't great. But watching the videos, like Malifaux you're unlikely to buy most units more than once, and they priced Malifaux high based on that same idea. The champions and adjuncts are the the only exception so their price also being high is disappointing.

Malifaux is $11 for a single 30mm guy in HIPS. The adjunct/commanders are $15 - $18, so a 50%-75% more for a similar model in a worse material. The rhino/eel are $50 in kickstarter, so who knows how much they'll be retail for maybe a 60mm based model! That the prices don't really compare favorably to Malifaux is a real issue IMO.

For 2017 new single 30mm base Malifaux models are now $15 I think (Allison Dade is listed as $15). For the boxes of ToS 9 models, they are cheaper per model than Malifaux regular troops. So I think the The Other Side pricing is within the same range as their Malifaux line (not more expensive).

So, they think it's a deal because they've raised all their other prices so high?

 -Loki- wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Didn't they mention that there would be a way to get TOTS models on sprue sometime in the future? I'll wait for that.

Not on a sprue, just the unassembled PVC. It'll be only available direct from Wyrd, so you'll be looking at full MRSP too.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
If we want to do a comparison to other games with preassembled miniatures of this type, the pricing really isn't great compared to Imperial Assault's prices.

The production models that they've shown, however, look much better than Imperial Assault models which with a couple of exceptions are very soft on details. The material is also much, much bendier than they're showing with TOS, which has a little give so it doesn't snap when dropped but won't bend to almost 90 degrees like the IA weapons.

Disagree on being better than Imperial Assault/Conan. Look at that gibbering hordes guy. No scales, minimal texture, rounded features.

Compare the eel/rhino to what $50 will buy you from Mierce and its really apparent they are charging way too much for the quality of their minis on this one. Mierce's 10 man metal units are also $50.

Heck, compare their grunts.



vs



These sure look like board game pieces to me.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, they think it's a deal because they've raised all their other prices so high?

Incoming new products looks to have increased in price and not that older products have their price increased

The kickstarter pledges are a great deal for those that already know they want to play The Other Side with Wyrd's miniatures. There really is no doubt about that. To get people who might be interested, the price as with almost every single tabletop miniature war game out there is pretty expensive. I don't think Wyrd has promoted The Other Side to suggest that it would be a cheap war game to get into. As the rules and unit stats for the game will be free online to peruse, people can try playing the game for free later on.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Didn't they mention that there would be a way to get TOTS models on sprue sometime in the future? I'll wait for that.

Not on a sprue, just the unassembled PVC. It'll be only available direct from Wyrd, so you'll be looking at full MRSP too.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
If we want to do a comparison to other games with preassembled miniatures of this type, the pricing really isn't great compared to Imperial Assault's prices.

The production models that they've shown, however, look much better than Imperial Assault models which with a couple of exceptions are very soft on details. The material is also much, much bendier than they're showing with TOS, which has a little give so it doesn't snap when dropped but won't bend to almost 90 degrees like the IA weapons.

Disagree on being better than Imperial Assault/Conan. Look at that gibbering hordes guy. No scales, minimal texture, rounded features.

Compare the eel/rhino to what $50 will buy you from Mierce and its really apparent they are charging way too much for the quality of their minis on this one. Mierce's 10 man metal units are also $50.

Heck, compare their grunts.



vs



These sure look like board game pieces to me.

You're both strawmanning and being intentionally misleading.

First, I never said Conan. It wasn't even in the quote that I quoted. So stop that.

Second, you're comparing a resin master (you can tell because it's got things like metal pins for the arrow shaft and additional sculpted details life arrow fletches). This is not the model you will receive.

The TOS model shown is from a batch of first run production miniatures. This is how they will look when they reach customers. So lets compare them to something I did say they look better than - a production quality Imperial Assault miniature.



Lets also look at something else I said it looks similar in quality to - a Wyrd HIPS model.



I feel quite comfortable saying they are pretty close to Wyrds HIPS models, and much better than Imperial Assault models.

Wyrd's prices are BARELY acceptable when I need 7-10 to play a full sized game... but with model counts going significantly higher, their pricing scheme is laughable.

In an age where even GW realizes you need discounted bundles (ala Start Collecting which can be sold at FURTHER discounts by stores/online), you know you're approaching sheer madness asking for even more.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Wyrd's prices are BARELY acceptable when I need 7-10 to play a full sized game... but with model counts going significantly higher, their pricing scheme is laughable.

In an age where even GW realizes you need discounted bundles (ala Start Collecting which can be sold at FURTHER discounts by stores/online), you know you're approaching sheer madness asking for even more.

That's exactly what the Allegiance boxes are. $125us gets you a Commander, 3 squads, a Fate deck and all the tokens you need to play that faction. That Commander and 3 squads is a full 1 commander list (25 scrip).

While GW's 'start collecting' boxes are cheaper at $85, they offer much less value for money when you consider the total points in the list. Games Workshop prices these because they expect you're going to buy 2-3 of them and either toss the additional HQ's or convert them into something else. Wyrd priced the Allegiance boxes like they did because they know you'll only buy them once. There's no reason to buy a second.

This is the same logic behind their Malifaux models. They're priced pretty high compared to what's on the market, higher than GW in some cases. But outside of very few circumstances, you're only buyong them once. They don't get you as a repeat customer buying that box od Bunraku 2-3 times to get the intended amount you'd actually want in game. Likewise, looking at the cards and how the game works, they likely don't expect you'll want, say, an extra squad of Striped Skulkers or Karkinoi. You can because the game mechanics allow you, but that's going to be corner cases like people buying two boxes of Mindless Zombies to spam them with Nicodem.

with that kind of logic, I am honestly surprised Malifaux is still going strong.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Didn't they mention that there would be a way to get TOTS models on sprue sometime in the future? I'll wait for that.

Not on a sprue, just the unassembled PVC. It'll be only available direct from Wyrd, so you'll be looking at full MRSP too.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
If we want to do a comparison to other games with preassembled miniatures of this type, the pricing really isn't great compared to Imperial Assault's prices.

The production models that they've shown, however, look much better than Imperial Assault models which with a couple of exceptions are very soft on details. The material is also much, much bendier than they're showing with TOS, which has a little give so it doesn't snap when dropped but won't bend to almost 90 degrees like the IA weapons.

Disagree on being better than Imperial Assault/Conan. Look at that gibbering hordes guy. No scales, minimal texture, rounded features.

Compare the eel/rhino to what $50 will buy you from Mierce and its really apparent they are charging way too much for the quality of their minis on this one. Mierce's 10 man metal units are also $50.

Heck, compare their grunts.



vs



These sure look like board game pieces to me.

You're both strawmanning and being intentionally misleading.

And you're white knighting hard. I'm comparing similar products on the market. You just don't like it because it shows how bad Wyrd's pricing and sculpts have become.

First, I never said Conan. It wasn't even in the quote that I quoted. So stop that.

So we can't bring in examples of other board game minis with better detail unless you approve of the comparison?

Second, you're comparing a resin master (you can tell because it's got things like metal pins for the arrow shaft and additional sculpted details life arrow fletches). This is not the model you will receive.

Actually that's pretty much what it will look like when you get it, if you own any of their metals. Sharp lines, texture on the clothing/armor, and an actual face with detail and character instead of the same copy paste CAD one Wyrd has done since they got rid of their real sculptors.

The TOS model shown is from a batch of first run production miniatures. This is how they will look when they reach customers. So lets compare them to something I did say they look better than - a production quality Imperial Assault miniature.



Lets also look at something else I said it looks similar in quality to - a Wyrd HIPS model.

[url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/851901-.html][/url
I feel quite comfortable saying they are pretty close to Wyrds HIPS models, and much better than Imperial Assault models.

Agreed they look like their generally low detail HIPS models. Disagree that they look better than Imperial Assault, Conan, Zombicide BP or any of the newest generation board game pieces.

Having tried Wyrd's PVC, unless they've improved, it's definitely worse than their HIPS, and either way, you need to deal with horrible PVC flash cleaning. If they had the same detail in HIPS as their PVC, I'd be much more tempted by thir new game.

Re: the mierce comparison, I almost objected, but then didn't, because 2 things:

1- they're around the same price per model based on those numbers
2- mierce in my experience has very crisp casts, so that's not much of a difference between their master and their result.

I'll put up some comparisons to the Tortoise from the Twisted set later. It's gotten better since Aoinius.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
And you're white knighting hard. I'm comparing similar products on the market. You just don't like it because it shows how bad Wyrd's pricing and sculpts have become.

Sure I'm white knighting. I like the product. Not everyone needs to be negative all the time.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
So we can't bring in examples of other board game minis with better detail unless you approve of the comparison?

Sure you can. But you responded to me as if I'd brought them up and then posted a picture to prove me wrong, when the only other game I brought up was Imperial Assault. You were straw manning.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Actually that's pretty much what it will look like when you get it, if you own any of their metals. Sharp lines, texture on the clothing/armor, and an actual face with detail and character instead of the same copy paste CAD one Wyrd has done since they got rid of their real sculptors.

I apologise. I thought you were comparing them to other PVC models.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Agreed they look like their generally low detail HIPS models. Disagree that they look better than Imperial Assault, Conan, Zombicide BP or any of the newest generation board game pieces.

That's fair enough if you don't think so. But I'm looking at those very board game peices in front of me, and looking at the production PVC models from TOS, and I'm seeing better quality. Guess it'll be egg on my face when I get mine if the quality isn't up to those photos. Imperial Assault figures in particular are pretty bad. Faces are almost non-existant. Zombiecide... eh. It depends which one. Seasons 1, 2 and 3 are pretty bad. Black Plague are exceptionally good and good enough to be considered outside of the realm of board game peices.

As promosed, Tortoise and the Carver (I chose the Carver because it's got similar detailing to its clothes as the Tortoise's pants)..



While you can see a mold line on the Tortoise, it's pretty easy to remove. What you don't have to contend with is seams, which are ever present and horrible to deal with on their HIPS models.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
with that kind of logic, I am honestly surprised Malifaux is still going strong.

It's funny how armchair critics tend to have different opinions to company owners that run their companies well, isn't it.

If you want to for others' education, that's nice, but it won't convince me... after feeling burned by the lack of support for puppet wars, the price of showdown for little content and visuals, and the "this pvc is solid!" promise of aionus, I'm still playing malifaux with what I enjoy and a smaller, tighter collection that I don't expect to give up any time in the future short of an edition I don't have the energy to follow, but not ready to branch into another, more expensive game.

If it turns out this game roars out of the gate and is awesome, without a price this great ever later, I might regret it, but I'm not taking the risk.

edit: having seen the pics, looks like they got smarter about what to make, not better at making it (which isn't saying smarter is bad, just not as awesome as some of the PVC people have turned out). organic shapes are the easy choice for PVC. And not sure what you mean about seams re: HIPS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, you mean gaps between parts. why aren't you using model cement? It's a stronger bond and covers those up easily.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
If you want to for others' education, that's nice

Not really. I just want to play the game.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
And not sure what you mean about seams re: HIPS.

You seriously don't see that seam running down the side of his leg and torso? That requires filling with plastic putty. How about Lord Chompy Bits? I actually was partway through painting him before I noticed I missed these in my hours of seam filling.



Or maybe Miss Ery? Down the side and right through the face.



Surely something smaller wouldn't have it? Oh wait. Not even flush with her shirt.



Maybe their newer stuff got better? Oh.



Not that I dislike their HIPS models. Far from it. But every material has its issues to deal with when regarding construction and/or cleanup. HIPS models have join seams. It's unavoidable, but some companies are better at minimising them or running them through more logical areas. GW is good at this. Metal is harder to clean up, requiring files and such, requires pinning or scoring joing before gluing. Resin has a higher quantity of miscasts and airbubbles. PVC is harder to clean up and requires it to be done with a knife.

Until someone manages to cost effectively cast a HIPS model as a single peice, it's just something we'll have to deal with.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
oh, you mean gaps between parts. why aren't you using model cement? It's a stronger bond and covers those up easily.

Aha, terminology misunderstanding. I do, but I don't fill it until it spews out when the parts are pressed together. That just creates a mess and is harder to clean up. It's neater to use less cement and fill it with plastic putty (or liquid green stuff or something similar), which you can then wipe away the excess.

Did you see my response, re: plastic cement? Sometimes they make stupid-small pieces and very rarely they actually get a join wrong, but I've got basically no complaints about their HIPS.