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That is a nice themed list, and you won against a pretty mean looking Necron list (who apprently are pretty powerful in 7th).

Good win for the Tyranids, just goes to show that its not just about power building an army.

I had a fun game with Salamander drop pods on Tuesday. I ran 1000 points, I had a Necron ally who ran 1000 points, and the Salamanders brought 2000 points. I dealt with the Space marines on my side of the table, and was trading gaunts for marines mainly. Easily winning. However my Necron ally was killing marines nearly as fast, and he wasn't losing anything at all. An annihilation barge took a melta command squad up the tail pipe, and made all of its jink saves. A bunch of tac squads with flamers pile 20 wounds onto a big group of necron warriors. He makes 12 saves, 6 resurrections, and then uses his ghost ark to bring the squad back up to full. By the end of Turn 5 the Salamander player had just 4 drop pods and the Salamander Chaplin left on the table having lost about 65 marines and 4 drop pods. I had lost 30 guants, 1 Tyranid warrior, a biovore, and a Carnifex. Meanwhile my ally was down a total of 4 Necron warriors, and a single Hull point on an Annihilation barge.

Necrons are scary survivable in 7th. If you get in their range, and don't assault them, they will laugh off your shots, and destroy you.

Sounds like a frustrating game for the Salamanders player, lol.

tag8833 wrote:
Necrons are scary survivable in 7th. If you get in their range, and don't assault them, they will laugh off your shots, and destroy you.

I play Necron's also and against them quite a bit. They are infuriating to shoot at normally, but with res orb and ghost ark support (and in cover) they are just plain invincible!

However.. you charge them with something that can reliably win combat by 3-4 and they are totally screwed!

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Sounds like a frustrating game for the Salamanders player, lol.

He was winning in points until turn 4, so it was actually a fairly close game, despite being nearly tabled. In the bottom of 4 we took a 1 point lead, and then in our turn 5, we went up by 4. He had 18 OS units on the table including 6 drop pods.

Ok, guys, here's a preview of my very 1st 7E Tyranid battle. The batrep should be coming out next week.



1850 Sky Fleet Pandora

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grubs

1x Venomthrope
1x Zoanthrope

3x Ripper Swarms - Deepstrike
3x Ripper Swarms - Deepstrike

2x Biovores
Mawloc

Bastion - Comms Relay

Formation: Skyblight

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grubs

Harpy - TL-Stranglethorns
Harpy - TL-HVC
Hive Crone

11x Gargoyles
11x Gargoyles
11x Gargoyles



1850 Farsight-bomb Tau

Farsight
Shadowsun (Warlord)

7x Bodyguards - 3x Dual Plasmas, 3x Dual Fusions, 6x Target Locks, 1x "Buff" Suit, 14x Gun Drones

6x Fire Warriors
6x Fire Warriors
6x Fire Warriors

Formation: Tau Firebase Cadre

Riptide - HBC, TL-Fusions, Skyfire, Interceptor

3x Broadsides - HYMP, TL-SMS, Skyfire
3x Broadsides - HYMP, TL-SMS, Skyfire


I must say, Tau is probably the hardest army for my Tyranids to face, especially one with so much skyfire shooting. I actually have a losing record against Tau with my bugs last edition (back before Skyblight was out). Can I break my losing streak against Tau? Find out next week.

 jy2 wrote:
Ok, guys, here's a preview of my very 1st 7E Tyranid battle. The batrep should be coming out next week.



1850 Sky Fleet Pandora

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grubs

1x Venomthrope
1x Zoanthrope

3x Ripper Swarms - Deepstrike
3x Ripper Swarms - Deepstrike

2x Biovores
Mawloc

Bastion - Comms Relay

Formation: Skyblight

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grubs

Harpy - TL-Stranglethorns
Harpy - TL-HVC
Hive Crone

11x Gargoyles
11x Gargoyles
11x Gargoyles



1850 Farsight-bomb Tau

Farsight
Shadowsun (Warlord)

7x Bodyguards - 3x Dual Plasmas, 3x Dual Fusions, 6x Target Locks, 1x "Buff" Suit, 14x Gun Drones

6x Fire Warriors
6x Fire Warriors
6x Fire Warriors

Formation: Tau Firebase Cadre

Riptide - HBC, TL-Fusions, Skyfire, Interceptor

3x Broadsides - HYMP, TL-SMS, Skyfire
3x Broadsides - HYMP, TL-SMS, Skyfire


I must say, Tau is probably the hardest army for my Tyranids to face, especially one with so much skyfire shooting. I actually have a losing record against Tau with my bugs last edition (back before Skyblight was out). Can I break my losing streak against Tau? Find out next week.

It does look like a tough fight. But in your favor, Mawloc...and Biovores should be star players vs Tau. I am looking forward to seeing how it goes.

 jy2 wrote:
Ok, guys, here's a preview of my very 1st 7E Tyranid battle. The batrep should be coming out next week.
1850 Sky Fleet Pandora
...
2x Biovores

Why did you run the Biovores in a squad instead of solo?

I heard on the Frontline gaming podcast that they are houseruling away the rule that makes blasts hit all levels of ruins. That would be a significant disadvantage to you in this game, are you playing by that house rule? I've played tons of games with squads of 3 Broadsides spread out on 3 different levels of terrain, ending that shenanigans was one of thing things I liked best about 7th.

Do you have thoughts on them making that rule change for the BAO and LVO? I don't like it at all obviously, and don't like how most of their house rules and missions seemed designed to save the gunline from the nerf's of 7th. Do you think these rules are just to ease the transition into 7th, or are they going to try to cultivate a distinct meta from the rest of 7th?

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Ok, guys, here's a preview of my very 1st 7E Tyranid battle. The batrep should be coming out next week.
1850 Sky Fleet Pandora
...
2x Biovores

Why did you run the Biovores in a squad instead of solo?

I heard on the Frontline gaming podcast that they are houseruling away the rule that makes blasts hit all levels of ruins. That would be a significant disadvantage to you in this game, are you playing by that house rule? I've played tons of games with squads of 3 Broadsides spread out on 3 different levels of terrain, ending that shenanigans was one of thing things I liked best about 7th.

Do you have thoughts on them making that rule change for the BAO and LVO? I don't like it at all obviously, and don't like how most of their house rules and missions seemed designed to save the gunline from the nerf's of 7th. Do you think these rules are just to ease the transition into 7th, or are they going to try to cultivate a distinct meta from the rest of 7th?

I ran biovores as a unit because 1) I think they are slightly more accurate that way, 2) saves me an easy VP if the opponent gets a Destroy an Enemy Unit for his Maelstrom objective and 3) I'm used to running them together. But I can see the merit of running them separately.

I actually haven't heard of Frontline's ruling on blasts, but I gotta say that I agree with them. That has always been the case in previous editions - that blasts hit just 1 level of a building. Playing it as hitting everything in all levels of ruins is just plain stupid. Imagine how stupid thunderfire cannons, wyverns, thudd guns, manticores and other multi-blast units become. This is just plain sloppy rules writing by GW. So no, I don't go by pure RAW in this case. So what if your opponent stacks his unit on different levels of ruins? That is actually a disadvantage to him as it limits the movement of his unit. You can take advantage of terrain to try to deny them LOS to shoot at some of your units and they will be less inclined to move and give up their "favorite" spots.

With regards to some of the rules changes to the BAO/LVO/Nova/etc. This is why they make some of the rulings/FAQ's the way they do:

There are a number of criterias TO's tend to look at when making FAQ's for their tournaments. While they try to follow as closely to GW RAW as they can, sometimes they do deviate for the following reasons:

1. What is fun for their attendees. Sometimes, they will rule against something if they think it will make it an unpleasant unexperience for their attendees. Examples include the re-rollable 2+ saves and now bargelords being able to join other units. Or allowing Forgeworld and limited Lords of War units.

2. Practicality. Sometimes, they will make FAQ's with the intent of making the game run more smoothly. Examples include flyers having a 180 degree vertical firing arc, as most of the complaints that came up in their tournaments (and other's tournaments) was the very subjective debate on whether flyers had LOS to particular units. Also, another example was back in 6th where they ruled a unit that is scoring is also a denial unit because that argument came up all the time and made for some very mad players when they found out that their units couldn't contest and lose the game because of it.

3. What they feel is RAI (rules-as-intended). Example here would be allowing an IC to attach to an infiltrating unit (or letting a unit infiltrate with an IC who has that rule). Another example would be to not allow a vehicle unit to join other units or barrages/blasts only hitting 1 level of a ruins.

 jy2 wrote:
I actually haven't heard of Frontline's ruling on blasts, but I gotta say that I agree with them. That has always been the case in previous editions - that blasts hit just 1 level of a building. Playing it as hitting everything in all levels of ruins is just plain stupid. Imagine how stupid thunderfire cannons, wyverns, thudd guns, manticores and other multi-blast units become. This is just plain sloppy rules writing by GW. So no, I don't go by pure RAW in this case. So what if your opponent stacks his unit on different levels of ruins? That is actually a disadvantage to him as it limits the movement of his unit. You can take advantage of terrain to try to deny them LOS to shoot at some of your units and they will be less inclined to move and give up their "favorite" spots.

I think the sloppy rules are how blasts / templates deal with terrain levels to begin with. 7th seems to me to be a tightening of the rules. I started to write an extended rant about it, but this isn't the place for that sort of thing.

I do want to generally disagree with your reasoning. Vector strike has always been D3 + 1 hits, should we house rule that back? What about Jink granting a 5+, should we keep that intact? If we can house rule things that have "always been the case" the rules are never going to change in a substantial way.

Also, in response to blast / template shooters like biovores, harpies, Crones, Flyrants, Zoeys becoming more powerful by changing the rules, the opposite is also an argument to accept the new rules. Units like broadsides, Devastators, Longfangs benefit from the current rules more than template shooters would benefit from the new rules, so the argument for the house rule is essentially saying "I think broadsides should be made more powerful while biovores are made less powerful" It is a meta shift. The sort of thing that rules changes are all about. Resisting such a meta change seems... odd. And especially odd that they would resist it when it comes to certain metas (gunline), but not others (MCs, Vehicles). And especially odd when it is a meta change to protect a play-style that is generally not very dynamic, and not very fun to play against.

I gotta agree with tag, very strongly as well. Sure some thing like unlimited combined Arms Detachment make sense to rule against - it affects practically everyone equally, and nobody wants a practically FOC less game built around winning by spending the most money buying 8 copies of the 1 unit to win. Avoiding some things makes sense.

House ruling crap like levels of blasts because it makes Biovores and Wyverns stronger against certain armies is pretty pathetic however, as is doing it because that's the way it used to be. Demons got way stronger with summoning and they never used to have that - houserule out that, scoring Wave Serpents, let's stop flamers hitting units inside open-topped as its too strong vs Dark Eldar, let's just give Barrage weapons back pinning, wait why aren't we playing 6th?

You take the good with the bad. Sorry Tau everyone else has to. At least your skimmers got a bit more desirable again.

That's fine. My opinion and Frontline's are houserules anyways, and I'm sure not everyone will agree. Personally, I don't mind playing it either ways, though I really dislike the fact that blasts are getting more and more powerful, especially barrages. First, they (barrages) have become sniping weapons and now they affect everything underneath as well, even on multi-level ruins?

BTW, I look at the different rules independently. Yes, vector-strike got nerfed. Yes, Smash got nerfed. Jink saves got better (to a degree). So what? None of those are getting modified by the BAO because those changes are as clear as day. However, the changes to the rules for blasts are a lot more subtle, much like the changes to the rules for scoring/denial back in 6th. You're going to catch a lot of people with their pants down with how the new rules have changed and that is going to make for some unpleasant gaming experiences in tournament play. In any case, I can see why Frontline is doing what they did and I can't say I blame them. If you don't like that ruling, then just play it as pure RAW at your LGS. If you are thinking about attending the BAO/LVO/any of Frontline's tourneys, then petition Reece (Reecius here on dakka) and just let him know that you don't agree with the changes. The BAO/LVO FAQ's aren't set in stone and they can change.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:

House ruling crap like levels of blasts because it makes Biovores and Wyverns stronger against certain armies is pretty pathetic however, as is doing it because that's the way it used to be. Demons got way stronger with summoning and they never used to have that - houserule out that, scoring Wave Serpents, let's stop flamers hitting units inside open-topped as its too strong vs Dark Eldar, let's just give Barrage weapons back pinning, wait why aren't we playing 6th?

Feel free to do so when you are the TO of your own tournament.





Automatically Appended Next Post:


Just FYI, but the blasts were a non-issue in my battle. My opponent never tiered his broadsides on multiple levels of a ruins and I actually never fired my biovores at them.

 jy2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

House ruling crap like levels of blasts because it makes Biovores and Wyverns stronger against certain armies is pretty pathetic however, as is doing it because that's the way it used to be. Demons got way stronger with summoning and they never used to have that - houserule out that, scoring Wave Serpents, let's stop flamers hitting units inside open-topped as its too strong vs Dark Eldar, let's just give Barrage weapons back pinning, wait why aren't we playing 6th?

Feel free to do so when you are the TO of your own tournament.

Nah, that would be terrible. You clearly missed that these were sarcastic theoretical changes aimed at showing the folly of the implementation of such house rules designed to overrule changes to a certain aspect of the game strictly to keep things as "they once were" or to keep things from getting stronger in game, without doing it to every single one of these changes at once. Leading to the conclusion that you would just be playing 6th anyway. Tailoring rule set changes due to opinions on things like that is without a doubt defined as tailoring, which is ok if you are going to do it everywhere and rebalance things in desperate need of it, but just house-ruling against the blast buff to ruinraiding really does seem to benefit specific lists more than others, most specifically the type of list dominant all of last edition.

It's a bad houserule, and since the topic was brought up I shared an opinion on it .

Opinions will differ as to the degree of a houserule. One may think bad, but others will think good. I for one, don't want to see a wyvern/TFC firing into ruins with 4 blast markers, only to have a sub-100-pt unit hit with 8-16 blasts just because it is a multi-level ruin. And then the time it takes to resolve that, especially if you are running multiple wyverns/TFC's/whatever. My goodness! Now it becomes a time issue in tournament play as well.

It's a good houserule, especially for a timed event where people are paying money to go to, but to each their own.

Mm time saving rule changes I can see easily justifiable as well, you didn't mention that as a reason in your original post and I didn't consider it, as such I went off the reasoning you did list which was that it makes it too strong and that it always was the other way. The first is good reasoning for a houserule, if in conjunction with a bunch of similar houserules not just one directly aimed at a single aspect of a few armies, leaving it quite an unfair ruling whether justified or not. The second line of reasoning you mentioned however I think is pretty counterproductive to say the least lol.

Oh well, doesn't affect me. Hoping that sort of stuff doesn't catch on though.

 jy2 wrote:
That's fine. My opinion and Frontline's are houserules anyways, and I'm sure not everyone will agree. Personally, I don't mind playing it either ways, though I really dislike the fact that blasts are getting more and more powerful, especially barrages. First, they (barrages) have become sniping weapons and now they affect everything underneath as well, even on multi-level ruins?

I didn't mean to come down negatively on your contribution. I was mainly confused by the house rule, and thought that you might have a little insight since I know that you have a personal relationship with the Frontline Gaming crowd.

 jy2 wrote:
If you are thinking about attending the BAO/LVO/any of Frontline's tourneys, then petition Reece (Reecius here on dakka) and just let him know that you don't agree with the changes. The BAO/LVO FAQ's aren't set in stone and they can change.

I'll be at LVO, and I'll drop him a note that I disagree. But, I figure Frontline's FAQ are generally fairly minimal, and usually the result of overwhelming feedback. For instance the 2+ rerollable was overwhelming unpopular and game breaking long before they decided to step in and nerf it. I was confused that there would be a similar level of need to nerf blast weapons. It is such a minor issue when compared to 2+ rerolls.

 jy2 wrote:
Feel free to do so when you are the TO of your own tournament.

I'm as close to a TO as we have in my parts. My first choice is to pick one of the big tourneys and use their FAQ's for my local GTs. It isn't worth it for me to abandon BAP/LVO rules for such a minor issue as blasts. I'm going to start playtesting their missions shortly. My intelligence and experience is limited, and I defer to Frontline Gaming as a source of greater wisdom, thus the reason I'm so confused when they make a decision that doesn't make sense to me. Your comment about turn speed is very resonate with me. Game speed is the number one challenge to non-tournament players who might play in one of my GTs. It is not uncommon for me to play locals in 3 1/2 hour games. I got one game in 5 hours last night because my opponent was very chatty, I ran a very high model count army, and we played a very precise, very by-the-rules game (spacing my gaunts 2" apart) with 12 separate mysterious rivers and a number of rules discussions. I understand the need to change rules to speed up the game.

I must say I don't think making Blasts hit less units significantly speeds up the game at all, no more so than doing it for any other weapon type and I don't think it justifies the focused nerf towards it. Just seems like a holdover from 6th and a testament to the gun line players having a lot of trouble adapting their 6th ed army investments into 7th.

Does their "fix" stop hitting units under floors of ruins entirely though? If so that's not a minor tweak but a massive change. The new rules make hiding small scoring units impossible from barrage. I don't think this was a side effect but very much intended.

Also did they go on to "fix" barrage units firing up through floors? I see more units of artillery underneath floors then enemies hiding, if arty can shoot up through some floors it would be stupid to stop them from hitting units under them IMO.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Mm time saving rule changes I can see easily justifiable as well, you didn't mention that as a reason in your original post and I didn't consider it, as such I went off the reasoning you did list which was that it makes it too strong and that it always was the other way. The first is good reasoning for a houserule, if in conjunction with a bunch of similar houserules not just one directly aimed at a single aspect of a few armies, leaving it quite an unfair ruling whether justified or not. The second line of reasoning you mentioned however I think is pretty counterproductive to say the least lol.

Oh well, doesn't affect me. Hoping that sort of stuff doesn't catch on though.

I didn't really think about it until I made that post. I was reminded of it when I thought about the player who brought 9 thudd guns with him to the last LVO tournament. That's 36 blasts he was firing each turn! In any case, I kind of wandered, but my point is that it does take time to resolve multiple blasts. Add in the fact that it can hit multiple levels and now the time increases even more, especially if you factor in Look-Out-Sirs from characters that the blasts might have hit.

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
That's fine. My opinion and Frontline's are houserules anyways, and I'm sure not everyone will agree. Personally, I don't mind playing it either ways, though I really dislike the fact that blasts are getting more and more powerful, especially barrages. First, they (barrages) have become sniping weapons and now they affect everything underneath as well, even on multi-level ruins?

I didn't mean to come down negatively on your contribution. I was mainly confused by the house rule, and thought that you might have a little insight since I know that you have a personal relationship with the Frontline Gaming crowd.

I actually didn't know about it until you mentioned it, but I can kind of see why they would make this rules changes. Tournaments have done it before for the reasons I've stated earlier. Some of the rules changes they made in the past include flyers having 180 degree vertical arcs, scoring units also being denying (back in 6th), IC's being able to infiltrate with a unit (and vice versa) even though one or the other does not have the Infiltrate USR, how to roll for your Warlord traits and re-rollable 2+'s becoming 2+/4+.

 jy2 wrote:
If you are thinking about attending the BAO/LVO/any of Frontline's tourneys, then petition Reece (Reecius here on dakka) and just let him know that you don't agree with the changes. The BAO/LVO FAQ's aren't set in stone and they can change.

I'll be at LVO, and I'll drop him a note that I disagree. But, I figure Frontline's FAQ are generally fairly minimal, and usually the result of overwhelming feedback. For instance the 2+ rerollable was overwhelming unpopular and game breaking long before they decided to step in and nerf it. I was confused that there would be a similar level of need to nerf blast weapons. It is such a minor issue when compared to 2+ rerolls.

Cool. BAO FAQ's aren't set in stone. They will make changes due to more play-testing, exit polls from tournament attendees or just by someone giving a well-thought out excerpt about why something should or shouldn't be.

 jy2 wrote:
Feel free to do so when you are the TO of your own tournament.

I'm as close to a TO as we have in my parts. My first choice is to pick one of the big tourneys and use their FAQ's for my local GTs. It isn't worth it for me to abandon BAP/LVO rules for such a minor issue as blasts. I'm going to start playtesting their missions shortly. My intelligence and experience is limited, and I defer to Frontline Gaming as a source of greater wisdom, thus the reason I'm so confused when they make a decision that doesn't make sense to me. Your comment about turn speed is very resonate with me. Game speed is the number one challenge to non-tournament players who might play in one of my GTs. It is not uncommon for me to play locals in 3 1/2 hour games. I got one game in 5 hours last night because my opponent was very chatty, I ran a very high model count army, and we played a very precise, very by-the-rules game (spacing my gaunts 2" apart) with 12 separate mysterious rivers and a number of rules discussions. I understand the need to change rules to speed up the game.

Not to change the topic, just curious about Lictor experiences. I've got 9 and am thinking of running a Lictor/Ravener/Genestealer themed list. Not terribly powerful, I know - but has anyone used 9 at once?

I had a thought about the 5-strong (Forest brood?) squad, possibly even buffed by Swarmy for s7 on the charge. Infiltration along with a few Genestealer infiltrators might end up with a decent 'in your face' first turn. Gimmicky? I need an excuse to finish painting my Lictors, you see...

SBG wrote:
Not to change the topic, just curious about Lictor experiences. I've got 9 and am thinking of running a Lictor/Ravener/Genestealer themed list. Not terribly powerful, I know - but has anyone used 9 at once?

I had a thought about the 5-strong (Forest brood?) squad, possibly even buffed by Swarmy for s7 on the charge. Infiltration along with a few Genestealer infiltrators might end up with a decent 'in your face' first turn. Gimmicky? I need an excuse to finish painting my Lictors, you see...

The Forest brood is actually a lot better than you might think. Five Lictors hit like an absolute truck with their 25 S6 Rending I6/WS6 attacks on the charge. If you play with forests at all, they get a lot better, but I think people tend to look at the Deadly Fruit rule and write them off as awful without really trying them out. I do think that the Death Leaper Assassin Brood is better, but LFB is still nasty.

If you were thinking of running a medium-sized "in your face" sort of list then Lictors will probably work well alongside their other T4/3W brothers. Shrikes and Raveners are both good in large numbers because of their hitting power and speed. Lictors bring that same strength in another wrapper (and their slower speed is off-set by being on your opponent from the outset, making directing whatever S8 firepower they have at your Raveners/Shrikes less of a certainly.

Somewhere way back in this thread are some comments from someone (ductvader?) who ran a T4 tsunami list like this with good success.

Ok...so...playing with new ideas for 7th edition for a charity tournament coming up.

Realisations so far from a few test games with different things all over the place...

We need Warp Charges - Tyranids were always heavily dependent on their psychic powers and now doubly so with the way the casting system has changed. Nothing really changed for us heavily leaning on Catalyst, Paroxysm and Onslaught. In fact, with the tweaks to vehicle damage Warp Blast suddenly gets a bit more of a nod as our only way of oneshotting a vehicle at range! - Zoanthropes gain favour!

The Tyranid Warlord Traits - aren't as bad anymore. They were never fantastic but at least the 1 allows you to turn woods into dangerous terrain (which the majority of our units will ignore due to MTC) as opposed to free hits on anything going in it.

Crones are now...somewhat more disappointing. Their tentaclids are still unreliable and now their vector strike is only a single hit on a ground unit or vehicle rather than what it was before. AP 2 really don't compensate for that.

Cover is suddenly a thing again, especially considering that certain things have become flat area terrain that grants cover saves, regardless of TLoS! Hurrah Ruins! Hurrah craters! Also, considering that certain types of buildings grant bonuses....well....

So, with this in mind I set about with the following.

Previously I would have considered crones and carnifexes as a staple in my army. Now, the Dakkafex is still respectable but I feel...I can do more.

The rules for the tournament are as follows...

1800 points

Forgeworld, Formations, Fortifications, Lords of War etc. are allowed. Only solid rule is NO Unbound lists.

It's a charity tournament. Be fun.

Now, if people want to develop a list here with me I'd be all for it. I love how our thread is so very organic and functions like a true hive mind in that sense.

Primary Detachment

Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers
Flyrant - Scytals, Reaper of Obliterax

10 Termagants
10 Termagants

Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope

Barbed Hierodule

Second Detachment

Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers

10 Termagants
10 Termagants

Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope

2 Biovores

1800 points exactly!

Now, things I am considering and reasonings behind them.

14 Warp Charge dice before anything is rolled. This will be a HUGE boon for me to be honest. This makes a nice bubble to get off catalysts and paroxysms where needed. There are also 4 guaranteed sources of Warp Blast there. Also, important considering the way vehicles have changed.

Everyone scores so multiple single model units can do something - I just have to play smart with the gaunts and keep them back on key objectives, scuttling forward to deny at the end.

Flyrants - 2 Dakka Flyrants to cover anti-air as well as glance vehicles to death with S6 small arms fire and the Assassin Tyrant to leap on Wraithknights, Riptides or anything else big and potentially annoying. The Reaper's shred helps reroll for those all important ID causing 6s. Also considering making him my Warlord to make him a bit harder to hunt as most consider dakka tyrants the real threat and certain traits fall down with dakka tyrants.

Barbie gets to play - To get him I pretty much traded out the Crones and the Carnifexes - he's got a slightly reduced rate of firepower compared to the Carnifexes but of a much higher strength and at AP 3 to boot. Not to mention capable of targetting seperate units. In return he's significantly tougher (T8 with FNP by default), moves faster and can Stomp in assault as well. I found Carnifexes really needed to be shepherded along with Onslaught, were remarkably fragile (4 T6 wounds) without Catalyst and could struggle if they got caught out by things with high WS and suffered from low initiative. Wraithlords were jerks. Anything with poison was jerk.

Now Barbie? Not so. Better WS than a carnifex. Better initiative. STRONGER. With D3 potential ID causing stomps at I1. The lack of air support from crones doesn't worry me - 2 Dakka flyrants should have that covered and S10 AP3 shots I suspect will have more impact than S6 AP- shots at the right targets.


Now what am I considering and what could be lost?

Ripper Swarms - I am considering a unit or two of these, possibly to replace a gaunt unit. Similar wounds, far more attacks and fearless to boot they can be plonked on something and left there.

Formations - I can field most formations. Currently I only really lack Harpies and Exocrines from my army. I did consider a Lictor Forest brood. Just for a shock unit of 5 Lictors showing up from somewhere. But the thing is, where would that come from? I could shave the Hierodule away and buy the LFB and have points spare...but Barbie has her perks and I found in the few games she did get used in she commands respect and draws a lot of firepower, which is bloody important for nids.

Tyrant Guard - Is it bad I considered seeing if I could squeeze out 140 points from somewhere to throw 2 Tyrant Guard with Crushing Claws in, just to have them waddle toward a vehicle and crunch it in a surprising twist?

So, opinions. Thoughts. Mutual digestions.

We need to get links in this thread for the most significant tactical posts. Weeding through 132 pages is hard to do lol.

It's a charity tournament. Be fun.

So I don't know whether you want competitive tactical advice or not, or what restrictions this being a charity event puts on you, as much as I'd like to help.

 SHUPPET wrote:

It's a charity tournament. Be fun.

So I don't know whether you want competitive tactical advice or not, or what restrictions this being a charity event puts on you, as much as I'd like to help.

Roll with it. I'm just largely mucking about and giving the bugs a proper 7th ed. dust off.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Ok...so...playing with new ideas for 7th edition for a charity tournament coming up.

Realisations so far from a few test games with different things all over the place...

We need Warp Charges - Tyranids were always heavily dependent on their psychic powers and now doubly so with the way the casting system has changed. Nothing really changed for us heavily leaning on Catalyst, Paroxysm and Onslaught. In fact, with the tweaks to vehicle damage Warp Blast suddenly gets a bit more of a nod as our only way of oneshotting a vehicle at range! - Zoanthropes gain favour!

The Tyranid Warlord Traits - aren't as bad anymore. They were never fantastic but at least the 1 allows you to turn woods into dangerous terrain (which the majority of our units will ignore due to MTC) as opposed to free hits on anything going in it.

Crones are now...somewhat more disappointing. Their tentaclids are still unreliable and now their vector strike is only a single hit on a ground unit or vehicle rather than what it was before. AP 2 really don't compensate for that.

Cover is suddenly a thing again, especially considering that certain things have become flat area terrain that grants cover saves, regardless of TLoS! Hurrah Ruins! Hurrah craters! Also, considering that certain types of buildings grant bonuses....well....

So, with this in mind I set about with the following.

Previously I would have considered crones and carnifexes as a staple in my army. Now, the Dakkafex is still respectable but I feel...I can do more.

The rules for the tournament are as follows...

1800 points

Forgeworld, Formations, Fortifications, Lords of War etc. are allowed. Only solid rule is NO Unbound lists.

It's a charity tournament. Be fun.

Now, if people want to develop a list here with me I'd be all for it. I love how our thread is so very organic and functions like a true hive mind in that sense.

Primary Detachment

Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers
Flyrant - Scytals, Reaper of Obliterax

10 Termagants
10 Termagants

Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope

Barbed Hierodule

Second Detachment

Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers

10 Termagants
10 Termagants

Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope

2 Biovores

1800 points exactly!

Now, things I am considering and reasonings behind them.

14 Warp Charge dice before anything is rolled. This will be a HUGE boon for me to be honest. This makes a nice bubble to get off catalysts and paroxysms where needed. There are also 4 guaranteed sources of Warp Blast there. Also, important considering the way vehicles have changed.

Everyone scores so multiple single model units can do something - I just have to play smart with the gaunts and keep them back on key objectives, scuttling forward to deny at the end.

Flyrants - 2 Dakka Flyrants to cover anti-air as well as glance vehicles to death with S6 small arms fire and the Assassin Tyrant to leap on Wraithknights, Riptides or anything else big and potentially annoying. The Reaper's shred helps reroll for those all important ID causing 6s. Also considering making him my Warlord to make him a bit harder to hunt as most consider dakka tyrants the real threat and certain traits fall down with dakka tyrants.

Barbie gets to play - To get him I pretty much traded out the Crones and the Carnifexes - he's got a slightly reduced rate of firepower compared to the Carnifexes but of a much higher strength and at AP 3 to boot. Not to mention capable of targetting seperate units. In return he's significantly tougher (T8 with FNP by default), moves faster and can Stomp in assault as well. I found Carnifexes really needed to be shepherded along with Onslaught, were remarkably fragile (4 T6 wounds) without Catalyst and could struggle if they got caught out by things with high WS and suffered from low initiative. Wraithlords were jerks. Anything with poison was jerk.

Now Barbie? Not so. Better WS than a carnifex. Better initiative. STRONGER. With D3 potential ID causing stomps at I1. The lack of air support from crones doesn't worry me - 2 Dakka flyrants should have that covered and S10 AP3 shots I suspect will have more impact than S6 AP- shots at the right targets.


Now what am I considering and what could be lost?

Ripper Swarms - I am considering a unit or two of these, possibly to replace a gaunt unit. Similar wounds, far more attacks and fearless to boot they can be plonked on something and left there.

Formations - I can field most formations. Currently I only really lack Harpies and Exocrines from my army. I did consider a Lictor Forest brood. Just for a shock unit of 5 Lictors showing up from somewhere. But the thing is, where would that come from? I could shave the Hierodule away and buy the LFB and have points spare...but Barbie has her perks and I found in the few games she did get used in she commands respect and draws a lot of firepower, which is bloody important for nids.

Tyrant Guard - Is it bad I considered seeing if I could squeeze out 140 points from somewhere to throw 2 Tyrant Guard with Crushing Claws in, just to have them waddle toward a vehicle and crunch it in a surprising twist?

So, opinions. Thoughts. Mutual digestions.

It's a tough list tha'ts for sure. However, you're really relying on the majority of your damage output being from your Barbed Heirodule and your Flyrants. Now don't get me wrong, that is decent damage output w/24 BS4 TL S6 shots + 6? TL S10 shots that can be split. Where I would be concerned the most is in your threat saturation. Tyranids typically do this the best out of most of the races. You've got 4 threats...3 If your opponent can force your melee Flyrant to swoop. A smart opponent could drop 1, maybe 2 Flryants if you're not careful and then you're in trouble.

I don't know that I could suggest any changes without giving you the generic advice or changing your list too much. I think that you'll have fun with it, but you've got a lot of eggs in one or two small baskets :-)

roxor08 wrote:

It's a tough list tha'ts for sure. However, you're really relying on the majority of your damage output being from your Barbed Heirodule and your Flyrants. Now don't get me wrong, that is decent damage output w/24 BS4 TL S6 shots + 6? TL S10 shots that can be split. Where I would be concerned the most is in your threat saturation. Tyranids typically do this the best out of most of the races. You've got 4 threats...3 If your opponent can force your melee Flyrant to swoop. A smart opponent could drop 1, maybe 2 Flryants if you're not careful and then you're in trouble.

I don't know that I could suggest any changes without giving you the generic advice or changing your list too much. I think that you'll have fun with it, but you've got a lot of eggs in one or two small baskets :-)

Its BS3 (S10 AP3 Assault 6) x2

I see them as a bit unreliable on the shooting side. Anyone see deifferently?

I'm not a huge fan of the barbed Hierodule. It's way overpriced for what it does in comparison to other stronger MC's out there and I'm not to even going to mention super heavies... The only super heavy for Tyranids that I think is worth it is the scythes Hierodule. 7 attacks at ws4 + stomp and the hell-storm AP3 flamer. You're going to be doing a lot more damage a lot more reliably.

I've started going over individual rules and units for nids on my blog and with ia4 coming out within a few weeks I will be reviewing the revised rules and of of course the new monster.

Have a look and see if you find anything of interest and let me know if you have any suggestions for future posts.

Last night I did a pretty thorough look at shadows in the warp and the hive tyrant should anyone want to learn a little more on the two!

Tonight I'll be posting a battle rep where my hive fleet will take on Iron hands and Ultramarines with a Typhon heavy siege tank...

Check it out!

www.40kbrawl.blogspot.co.uk

 Wilson wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the barbed Hierodule. It's way overpriced for what it does in comparison to other stronger MC's out there and I'm not to even going to mention super heavies... The only super heavy for Tyranids that I think is worth it is the scythes Hierodule. 7 attacks at ws4 + stomp and the hell-storm AP3 flamer. You're going to be doing a lot more damage a lot more reliably.

Both Hierodules are way overpriced compared to, well, anything; but the Barbed variant is clearly the better option. The Scythed variant essentially has to be in charge range to do any damage, and if you're getting to that point with a unit it can just as well be a Carnifex. A Hierodule barrelling directly into your opponent's line is a very expensive fire magnet. If that's what you're after, why not just take some combination of Acid Spray Tyrannofexes + Carnifexes for far less points? At least they come with some 2+ armour.
On the other hand, Bio-cannons give you something that Nids really struggle with under 7E: ranged anti-armour. We have a real issue with AV13+ outside of melee now that HVCs are less effective (and Rupture Cannons are still terrible). A Barbed Hierodule can threaten AV14 from a decent range where it can benefit from terrain and/or Venomthropes. It helps if you can squeeze out some extra effectiveness... the Swarmlord's Preferred Enemy buff or the Ammo Dump upgrade for buildings can help too.

Although to be honest, you need to be playing Apoc for either of these units to be nearly effective. Harridans are where it's at, dudes.

Yep. That's what I looked at. Barbie brings 12 S10 shots on something or 6 S10 shots on two different things. The scythed Hierodule...brings a S6 hellstorm template. Fair enough but the Knights/Land Raiders/AV 13 vehicles of the world aren't threatened by it and assaulting...leads to tarpitting.

The Saturation...well, mostly comes from watching how people here play. The Zoeys are now becoming threats and Barbie will get attention just for living. If she soaks up 1900 points worth of fire in 2 turns and dies....well, she'll have done her job.