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Jink doesn't confer. Which is good. I mean....SO BROKEN.

Tyran,

Although any given tournament can faq something against rules as written, this would be a pretty tough sell. So many codecies have something like this where they can take their primary CAD and then something "allied" that is exactly like this. I doubt it will be horrendously OP. We give up OS to get our hands on an extra tyrant or two. Look, yeah it's definitely awesome, but I really doubt that it's game-breaking

 jy2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Personally, I don't believe podvores are worth an 'A' grade (wouldn't give it more than a 'B' ever), but then I try not to influence the author's reviews unless I really disagree with their assessment.

That's interesting. How have they played in your experience in the past month? Wondering how exactly they let you down and what units it was against, because all the logic behind them suggests they are about an A- to A, just a very good unit.

Ah....I knew your curious mind would challenge me on this.

To me, an 'A' unit is a unit that can and will consistently contribute to the Tyranid cause. While pyrovores in pods (podvores) can be very good for its role of anti-infantry, oftentimes it just won't contribute much. Why?

1. Mech armies. It won't do very much against a mainly meched up opponent (other than possibly open-topped AV10 transports).

2. Smart players will reserve their troops/squishy units. As a competitive player, I do that all the time. They just won't have viable targets against certain armies and smarter generals.

3. Elite armies. 3 templates just won't do much to the more elitist armies, like 2+ save units, MC's, deathstar armies, etc.

4. Besides reserving, smart players can mitigate the damage somewhat by spreading out

Against the armies I mentioned, oftentimes, the pyrovores will just have drop out of sight onto an objective and just sit there. That is not their role. Either that or get in close, don't do much damage and then give up First Blood. These guys are situational contributors. Like the dimachaeron, against the right army, they have the potential to shine. However, against the wrong army, they fall flat on the face. That is why I will not give them an 'A'. This is how I would rank them:


Grades: B (Podvores), C+ (Promvores), D (Vanilla)

luke1705 wrote:
I also thought podvores were a curious choice for an A rating. Looking at something like the Hive Crone, which brings more durability, more mobility for cheaper, and more utility, we still probably wouldn't grade that an A. A B, maybe a B+, but I don't see the pros of the pyrovores being better than a hive crone.

Also, I looked over the force org for the Leviathan detachment again. I'm sticking to my guns but it looks legit. In the brb, a combined arms detachment has objective secured as a command benefit. Since leviathan sacrifices this, it is not considered a combined arms detachment. So it's no different than using say, a grey Knights strike force. I think 4 plus Skyblight is crazy though. Love it

Yet the Crone hits something like 1/3 the damage output, and does little else to anything not a flyer. Durability sure, but the Crone sits around Tyrannofex tier imo.


In one turn the Pyrovores have around about the damage output of a Biovore squad shooting for 2 turns or more. They are an excellent unit to quickly knock something out, really early game, especially important units in the ruin, and do it far more reliably as well. Also, Crones may have more "mobility" on the surface, but at the end of the day Pyrovores in a pod will have almost equal positioning, not having to use FMC arcs and being able to land wherever they want and deploy from there, so long as the pod land isn't too crazy. Also, they can mitigate spread far better than Biovores can by using positioning combined with templates. Every turn they spend alive and in range of something they pull further ahead of Crones and Biovores and Tyrannofexes in points investment. They also do really well in assault. This makes them perfect for an aggressive army. I think they par well with EggaFexes and other glass cannony units like Dima's.

I do agree that we could maybe take them down to a B+/ A- based on the fact that they don't fit perfectly well into every build like say Biovores do for the exact same role. However when they do fit, they can seriously outperform other armies. I think even in lists where they don't fit, they are still likely to do well.

However I disagree that they lose points based on the fact that they aren't as good vs all mech. Their coverage in TAC is still CRITICALLY important - I'd rather have one and not need it, then need one and not have it. Hell against mech they still outperform Biovores strongly, being able to drop 3 S5 hits into rear armour and threaten assault more rationally. I feel like their role is one shared with a few models in the dex, including Biovore, Tyrannofexacyte, and to some extent both Harpy and Crone. I feel like every shooty Nid army should have one of these (bit more negligable if you have multiple Mawlocs and/or a big Lictor base), it's important to stop pathfinders in the ruins for example, being worth about triple their actual point value simply because you have no cost effecient way of dealing with them. I think Biovores and Pyrovores are the best for this round, Biovores are a little more intuitive but I think Pyrovores have the potential to lap them in effectiveness and will almost always match them. Of course it does meaning taking a spore which limits the size of your army, however those things more or less pay for themself, but that is the only real tradeoff imo.

 jy2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Now this is only my opinion, but one of my personal criterias for an A+ rating is this - is the unit basically an auto-include in the army? The carnifex, while very good (easily an A or A-), unfortunately suffers from being in an over-crowded slot. Basically, if the carnifex was A+ material, then I don't really even need to consider the other units in that slot. However, the carnifex has to compete against the likes of the mawloc, biovores, exocrines and t-fexes (well, mainly the mawloc). When I pick my Heavies, I need to seriously consider which unit I should take, the dakkafex or the mawloc?

Just something to think about.

Very true, and this is the one argument that could take Carnifex down from A+ to just an A imo. But the thing is, Carnifex IS better than all those units in the Heavy support slot, who are a bit more niche in their role and can be excluded once you have enough - e.g. there is little point to taking 3 Exocrines over turning at least one or two of those squads into Dakkafex.

The real question, what do I lose by taking a Flyrant? The answer is well, basically nothing, not much is really contesting very strongly for that position, and what do I lose by taking a Carnifex, and SOMETIMES that answer can be maybe the option of something important in that slot, as it can be much more contested if you don't have Biovore or Exocrine coverage. However LAN helps out with that amazingly though, but even without LAN I just don't think the opportunity cost associated with putting a Dakkafex in that HS slot is really enough to bring him down from A+, he's the best unit in that slot. I'll liken it to saying Flyrants are a hard pick because HQ slot has really important models - they ARE the important models. HS is a bit contested but the Dakkafex still comes out slightly above every other option, and some of the other options being A grade perfect tier models just pushes Carnifex into A+ tier. I won't argue any A tier branding of him however, it''s all subjective, but A- is too harsh as he outweighs everything in his slot and practically everything in the army in terms of power level.

Here's the difference. Almost everyone runs dual flyrants competitively. However, not everyone runs dakkafexes competitively. When it comes to the Heavy slots, you see a wide range of units, from dakkafexes to mawlocs to t-fexes to LAN biovores and exocrines to no Heavy Support at all (because of formations)!

Yes, the carnifex is more well-rounded than most of the other units it competes against. However, it isn't so much head-&-shoulders above them all that you see it in every list as you do the flyrant. And that's what an 'A+' unit is to me, something you see on almost every Tyranid player's list. BTW, with the exception of the carnifex and the mawloc, I wouldn't give any of the other Heavy supports anything more than a 'B+' rating, though I would rate the biovore somewhere between 'A-/B+'.

I do partially agree, however "what almost everyone does" isn't really a compelling argument at all, as it's easily possible for most players to be wrong. Up until a few weeks ago, "almost everyone" considered Lictors unplayable. Your definition for unit rankings basically turns it into a popularity contest rather than a strategy discussion, which is not a healthy approach.

However you are right, there is more competition in the slot and the Dakkafex isn't leagues above it's competitors unlike the Flyrant. But why it needs to be, to be a unit of A+ quality seems beyond me. If it was an excellent unit that contested with arguably better units I'd say so, but really every other unit is the one contesting with Dakkafex for it's slot, and you can still safely dump just as many points in Dakkafex as you can with Flyrant quite safely since you can take them in squads of up 3, and still have 2 HS slots open. Nope, this contesting in the slot isn't enough to take away Dakkafexes A+ rating in my eyes. It's just one of the very best models in the dex and the fact that it is in HS and available in squads of 3 could be just as easily looked at as an advantage, rather than being restricted to just 2 in the HQ slot (3 now I guess).

tag8833 wrote:

OrdoSean wrote:
Final Game: http://vectdoes.blogspot.com/2014/11/11th-company-game-6-championship-round.html

Congrats.

I've got a bunch of questions.
#1. On turn 2, you shot 5 lictors at 2 venoms and killed them both. So a Lictor shoots Flesh hooks at BS3. That means on average 1 hits. Flesh Hooks are strength 6. So 1/2 of all hits wound. Therefore, 5 lictors should cause 2 Venoms to make 2.5 Jinks most of the times. They would be lucky to kill 1 Venom. This is the same turn a Mawloc Exploded a ravager. Did you just roll lights out that turn?

#2. On turn 4, 2 units of spore mines assault some grotesques, and center the blast over the Succubus, I assume you mean over a spore mine that made base with the Succubus. Did he have the succubus out front so that you could make base with both groups of mines?

#3. Did you know Grotesques were Leadership 4? I have used psychic scream on them to very good effect in the past. Was that part of your strategy, or did you just get lucky?

#4. How did you warlord tank so many saves in combat with the Grotesques. Hitting on 4's, wounding on 4's with 4 attacks each, they should have been forcing quite a few saves, right?

#1 yes they rolled really hot. Though if you spread it around I shot 9 lictors at 3 venoms and did 5 total hit points. And at first they didnt jink, only started jinking after taking hull points and on 3rd venom from the start. So if you spread it to that its 18 shots, 9 hits, 4.5 results, if like i said the first results werent jinked away thats 3 results with 1.5 in the balance with a total of 5 not being outside the realm of averages. What happened was the first two venoms died to 5 lictors and the last venom only took a glance to 4... so while it appeared super hot at first it leveled out when combined, just unlucky for him that all the good rolls went onto two instead of being spread all around.

The ravager exploding to the mawloc hits was lucky, penned with a 6 and then rolled a 6 again, though it would have exploded to a 5 too I suppose. Also between 4 hits the odds of killing one arent terrible... I mean 50/50 you kill one I think. Hard to do the math and chaos where the high numbers land, since obviously they dont roll over but if on average you get enough results that are split or whatever. And almost any result that would have kept it stationary would be the same as dead to me, immobilized or stunned or exploded. All equal to me in that situation.

#2 well he didnt block her, so yes I was able to place one mine from each unit in base to base with her, though with how the rules for mines work you still have to pick which in each unit explodes and center the blast there so it would still I think start wounds from closest model to center of blast which largely works out the same in this case. Only had 4 grotesques and not a great consolidate so wasnt hard to do.

#3 I did know they had low leadership, didnt matter most of the game because each was babysat by a character with better leadership, though I did lament most turns that I would move Tyrant away from them and not remember shriek until the psychic phase, but needed to move the tyrant for other reasons anyway, like vehicle hunting and picking up lictors who had gone to ground, so wasnt super upset. But yeah I play dark eldar too so I knew that if the characters werent around the grots could be super vulnerable to shriek.

#4 He did make quite a few saves, escpiclaly on the initial charge. But after that he had cast paroxysm on them each turn so they actually hit him on 5's reducing attacks. And he killed one each turn after killing 2 the first turn, so diminishing return until the new squad charged and killed him. Basically 2 grotesques and urien on charge, 2 grotesques next round, 1 grotesque, no grotesques. So 16 attacks, 8 attacks, 4 attacks. 8 hits, 4 wounds... made all but one save. 2.64 hits, 1.3 wounds, in theory, I think he had none this round. And 1.32 hits, .6 wounds in theory that next round. So really not that outside the math again.

Remember when he charged it was 4 guys and urien... one died to overwatch and I smashed another. SO they never had enough guys. Also assaulting a single model means no rampage extra attacks.

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Only the flyrant has the jink rule for the 2+ cover. Gargoyles will only get normal cover if the flyrant LOS to them. I'm pretty sure jink doesn't confer, though Stealth and Shroud does. Rather, it is directional fire - put the flyrant in front for the 2+ cover to tank the shots.

BTW, the unit can be tied up in combat by another tarpit unit.

I see you've never played Jinking TWC.
Jink: "When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink."

Anything that can tarpit the Skytyrant can tarpit the Dimacharon easier and for longer. A Flyrant with RoO is doing 5 attacks base with 6 on the charge at initiative 8, WS 8, Strength 7, rerolling all failures to wound, and causing ID on 6's. 15 more points gets it preferred enemy, but probably isn't worth it.

Gargoyles are Poison (6+) when using their blind attack, and so can contribute a bit as well in most cases.

Wow....darn it! I'm going to put Sammael in my blob squad!

Charge a dreadnought into the unit and laugh as they struggle to get out.

If that's how it works, 20 Gargs with Terminator saves seems pretty awesome, initial surface value reaction. Then again walking a Tyrant across the battlefield for CC seems like a terrible idea regardless of durability, is there a way to drop them both in pods? I haven't seen any of these formations or know the wording or anything

luke1705 wrote:
Jink doesn't confer. Which is good. I mean....SO BROKEN.

Jink: "When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink." Page 167.

Jink is broken (especially on vehicles), but it also confers.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quick question - can FMCs deep strike?

No..

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quick question - can FMCs deep strike?

Yes, I believe they can.

 SHUPPET wrote:

I do partially agree, however "what almost everyone does" isn't really a compelling argument at all, as it's easily possible for most players to be wrong. Up until a few weeks ago, "almost everyone" considered Lictors unplayable. Your definition for unit rankings basically turns it into a popularity contest rather than a strategy discussion, which is not a healthy approach.

However you are right, there is more competition in the slot and the Dakkafex isn't leagues above it's competitors unlike the Flyrant. But why it needs to be, to be a unit of A+ quality seems beyond me. If it was an excellent unit that contested with arguably better units I'd say so, but really every other unit is the one contesting with Dakkafex for it's slot, and you can still safely dump just as many points in Dakkafex as you can with Flyrant quite safely since you can take them in squads of up 3, and still have 2 HS slots open. Nope, this contesting in the slot isn't enough to take away Dakkafexes A+ rating in my eyes.

That's fine. What qualifies to be an 'A+' unit is my own personal barometer, and it may not necessarily be the same barometer that everyone will use to judge their units. It is all subjective anyways, as you normally take into account your experiences, good and bad, when using a unit as well as logical reasoning. You are welcome to intepret the unit as an A+ in your eyes, just like someone else is perfectly right to intepret it as an A- in their eyes. But one thing we do agree on is that a carnifex is a great unit. That's all that really matters. He is a unit that is worth taking and is an consistent contributor to the army.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quick question - can FMCs deep strike?

No..

Yes they can and can also choose which flight mode they are in

How are people getting access to SoB: Leviathan?? I thought the Ebook is still on pre-order

tag8833 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Jink doesn't confer. Which is good. I mean....SO BROKEN.

Jink: "When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink." Page 167.

Jink is broken (especially on vehicles), but it also confers.

Incomplete rules text is misleading. It goes on to say "...all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save..."

The unit jinks, but only the models with the rule get the save and have to snapfire.

Razerous wrote:
How are people getting access to SoB: Leviathan?? I thought the Ebook is still on pre-order

It's been leaked onto the net.

As a matter of fact, you can find the rules for them on p. 240 of this thread.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Jink doesn't confer. Which is good. I mean....SO BROKEN.

Jink: "When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink." Page 167.

Jink is broken (especially on vehicles), but it also confers.

Incomplete rules text is misleading. It goes on to say "...all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save..."

The unit jinks, but only the models with the rule get the save and have to snapfire.

That's what I thought!

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quick question - can FMCs deep strike?

No..

Yes they can and can also choose which flight mode they are in

That is what I thought too, SHUPPET.

Fighter ace flyrant - ongoing reserves in enemy turn, deep strike somewhere else on your turn, rinse repeat.

 jy2 wrote:
Charge a dreadnought into the unit and laugh as they struggle to get out.

Yep. I wish so Bad the Tyrant could take Crushing Claws, but he has to make do with Rending claws instead. I will be giving mine E.Grubs for Haywire Wall of Death, but it will still be annoying.

Warlord never dies! Wait that gives tyranids an advantage - tourneys will not allow it. But bring ad lance knights all day, guys. /butthurt

Edit - references the fighter ace flyrants.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quick question - can FMCs deep strike?

No..

Yes they can and can also choose which flight mode they are in

That is what I thought too, SHUPPET.

Fighter ace flyrant - ongoing reserves in enemy turn, deep strike somewhere else on your turn, rinse repeat.

Don't you have to come in the same way that you went out? So if you fly off, then you have to fly back on. If you deepstrike in, mishap and go back into reserves, then you deepstrike back in next turn? I don't think that you can move normally off the table and then deepstrike in the following turn.

 jy2 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quick question - can FMCs deep strike?

No..

Yes they can and can also choose which flight mode they are in

That is what I thought too, SHUPPET.

Fighter ace flyrant - ongoing reserves in enemy turn, deep strike somewhere else on your turn, rinse repeat.

Don't you have to come in the same way that you went out? So if you fly off, then you have to fly back on. If you deepstrike in, mishap and go back into reserves, then you deepstrike back in next turn?

I'd have to look into that. Even so -- swoop on near the edge to mid table for some key shooting. After seeing the enemy movement determine if the warlord is in danger -- if so swiftly escape again

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quick question - can FMCs deep strike?

No..

Yes they can and can also choose which flight mode they are in

That is what I thought too, SHUPPET.

Fighter ace flyrant - ongoing reserves in enemy turn, deep strike somewhere else on your turn, rinse repeat.

Where does it give them that? It's not listed under the FMC Special Rules section. All I see are jink and vector strike.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quick question - can FMCs deep strike?

No..

Yes they can and can also choose which flight mode they are in

That is what I thought too, SHUPPET.

Fighter ace flyrant - ongoing reserves in enemy turn, deep strike somewhere else on your turn, rinse repeat.

Where does it give them that? It's not listed under the FMC Special Rules section. All I see are jink and vector strike.

I'm fuzzy on it which is why I asked but I thought it had to do with being treated exactly as a jump unit when not swooping. I'm not swooping in reserve. Jump units (which it is considered to be) have deep strike. It's a mess. They should be able to from a fluff standpoint but fluff ain't rules.

Edit - it also directly mentions arriving from deep strike in the FMC descriptive rules.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Jink doesn't confer. Which is good. I mean....SO BROKEN.

Jink: "When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink." Page 167.

Jink is broken (especially on vehicles), but it also confers.

Incomplete rules text is misleading. It goes on to say "...all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save..."

The unit jinks, but only the models with the rule get the save and have to snapfire.

I read that as "all models in the (Unit with the special Rule)."

And you read it as "All (models with the special rule) in the unit." Even though it isn't in my best interest, I hope you are right. I have a buddy who has played it the other way for quite a while with his space wolves.

Let me ask you in your interpretation, if a unit including a Space marine bike jinks, is the whole unit snap shooting or just the bike?

If a Flyrant fighter ace rolls a 5+, he gets silly broken silly fast. I mean just hug the edges and you can't die really. How awesome is that? A 3-4 still helps Flyrants a ton too.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quick question - can FMCs deep strike?

No..

Yes they can and can also choose which flight mode they are in

That is what I thought too, SHUPPET.

Fighter ace flyrant - ongoing reserves in enemy turn, deep strike somewhere else on your turn, rinse repeat.

Where does it give them that? It's not listed under the FMC Special Rules section. All I see are jink and vector strike.

FMC can move (and start off) as jump infantry. Jump infantry can always choose to deploy by deepstrike from Reserves. Thus, FMC's can also choose to deploy by deepstriking as well.

 jifel wrote:
If a Flyrant fighter ace rolls a 5+, he gets silly broken silly fast. I mean just hug the edges and you can't die really. How awesome is that? A 3-4 still helps Flyrants a ton too.

Lots of stuff is 'broken' in the game. 2++ re-roll, wave serpents, ad lance, more I'm sure. But the TOs pick what broken gets to play and what sits out. I expect to see this banned though I hope it isn't for fairness' sake. Same goes for hive fleet FOC plus CAD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tag8833 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Jink doesn't confer. Which is good. I mean....SO BROKEN.

Jink: "When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink." Page 167.

Jink is broken (especially on vehicles), but it also confers.

Incomplete rules text is misleading. It goes on to say "...all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save..."

The unit jinks, but only the models with the rule get the save and have to snapfire.

I read that as "all models in the (Unit with the special Rule)."

And you read it as "All (models with the special rule) in the unit." Even though it isn't in my best interest, I hope you are right. I have a buddy who has played it the other way for quite a while with his space wolves.

Let me ask you in your interpretation, if a unit including a Space marine bike jinks, is the whole unit snap shooting or just the bike?

It's just the bike. The unit doesn't get the rule - only the models have it. Since models are never the target of shooting attacks (except focused witchfire) the unit declares jink. But only models benefit. So no jinking gargoyles.

Can someone share the rules for fighter ace with me again for reference

 tetrisphreak wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Jink doesn't confer. Which is good. I mean....SO BROKEN.

Jink: "When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink." Page 167.

Jink is broken (especially on vehicles), but it also confers.

Incomplete rules text is misleading. It goes on to say "...all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save..."

The unit jinks, but only the models with the rule get the save and have to snapfire.

I read that as "all models in the (Unit with the special Rule)."

And you read it as "All (models with the special rule) in the unit." Even though it isn't in my best interest, I hope you are right. I have a buddy who has played it the other way for quite a while with his space wolves.

Let me ask you in your interpretation, if a unit including a Space marine bike jinks, is the whole unit snap shooting or just the bike?

It's just the bike. The unit doesn't get the rule - only the models have it. Since models are never the target of shooting attacks (except focused witchfire) the unit declares jink. But only models benefit. So no jinking gargoyles.

That is my intepretation as well. Only the model gets the jink save and only that model has to snapfire.

I call shenanigans on a White Scars biker captain giving an entire platoon of 50 infantry men 3+ Stealth cover just because he jinked.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Can someone share the rules for fighter ace with me again for reference

It costs the same points as wings on a tyrant.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/7230/572843.page#7368223

The first page in the section is a few posts down.

1-2: +6" for synapse range or auto pass IB.
3-4: Additional wound
5-6: Can enter ongoing reserves if withing 12" of table edge at the beginning of the opponent's shooting phase.

 jy2 wrote:
I call shenanigans on a White Scars biker captain giving an entire platoon of 50 infantry men 3+ Stealth cover just because he jinked.

I stand corrected, and rescend my promises of a super broken deathstar formation. It is still good, and still better than the Dimacharon because it moves 12" instead of 6", but it isn't a panacea.

Well, that's really good. Extra wound on a Flyrant is worth at least 60 points. 5-6 is obviously ridiculous, 1-2 is just a crappier Norn Crown however but I guess that's the risk you run.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So got into a rules conflict the other day - exactly how DOES the Mawloc interact with ruins now? It says multi-level ruins only units on the bottom are hit, there was the interpretation that this means they hit every level since there is no money levels in ruins,here was also the interpretation that it means they hit none seeing as there is technically no "bottom" level although I think that one is quite outlandish. The last interpretation is that Mawlocs still only hit the bottom level of the ruin as it's not so much a rules terms as a term descriptive of terrain regardless of whether or not there is multi-level global ruins in this BrB.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Well, that's really good. Extra wound on a Flyrant is worth at least 60 points. 5-6 is obviously ridiculous, 1-2 is just a crappier Norn Crown however but I guess that's the risk you run.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So got into a rules conflict the other day - exactly how DOES the Mawloc interact with ruins now? It says multi-level ruins only units on the bottom are hit, there was the interpretation that this means they hit every level since there is no money levels in ruins,here was also the interpretation that it means they hit none seeing as there is technically no "bottom" level although I think that one is quite outlandish. The last interpretation is that Mawlocs still only hit the bottom level of the ruin as it's not so much a rules terms as a term descriptive of terrain regardless of whether or not there is multi-level global ruins in this BrB.

It just hits the ground floor of the ruins. It is actually consistent with the rules, as a unit that deepstrikes in from reserves always land on the ground floor of ruins.