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2014/11/28 23:38:03
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Apparently that Carnifex is a special Carnifex, or from what I read.
I can't see GW enforcing large bases for Carnifexes, they are appropriately based and they've still got lots of Carnifex on shelves with the old bases.
Then again, I can see them saying 'oh, that was the wrong base, here buy this one from us'
YMDC = nightmare
2014/11/28 23:56:24
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Frozocrone wrote: I can't see GW enforcing large bases for Carnifexes, they are appropriately based and they've still got lots of Carnifex on shelves with the old bases.
GW doesn't care about that sort of thing (specific rules). Its our local 40k community and tournaments that can choose to adopt or not new base sizes, and they are going to be very reasonable about it.
Both bases will be grandfathered in until a new tyranid codex.
2014/11/29 02:09:33
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I'm planning on getting plastic and cut in the right dimensions and gluing my 7 Fexes and 22 warriors to the new size, and then use basing material to integrate them.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2014/11/29 04:47:18
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Anyone else notice that the Spawn of Cryptus is described as being able to use 2 sets of rules the Spawn of Cryptus with apparently enhanced hive mind link so possible synapse and more powers than just The Horror, or a basic Broodlord?
2014/11/29 14:22:07
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
barnowl wrote: Anyone else notice that the Spawn of Cryptus is described as being able to use 2 sets of rules the Spawn of Cryptus with apparently enhanced hive mind link so possible synapse and more powers than just The Horror, or a basic Broodlord?
We'll know in a couple days- the fluff usually says one thing while the rules say another.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Broodlords have access to two powers currently- Horror and the primaris.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/29 14:24:32
Frozocrone wrote: Apparently that Carnifex is a special Carnifex, or from what I read.
Not exactly. If the Deathstorm follows the same style with its dataslates as the ones In the Stormclaw set, it will just be a Carnifex with its biomorphs and the rules for said biomorphs included in the profile with maybe a special rule tacked on (probably something to mitigate IB: Feed, since it is the only creature in the set that has to worry about instinctive behavior - also keeps in line with what they did with the Killa Kans prior).
Still, I'm actually not too bothered by the idea of the 'fex going to an oval base. As it stands now, they barely fit on the 60mm and it is quite easy to get them tangled up on other models when piling into combat. Also, the switch to an oval base will make the Bio-Flail Stonecrushers really nasty...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/29 15:19:46
2014/11/29 20:23:37
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
In the short run, rebasing significant parts of my collection will infuriate me, but in the long run... well, i'll just say this.
For about a year, the wife and I shifted to Warmahordes, thinking it would be a good second game. One of the WORST offenses of that game, is that in a system where facing matters, their modelers are allowed to go buck-wild and make unwieldy messes of miniatures that often over-hang their based by huge amounts. Oh, and now you're expected to get those (usually) within half an inch of other likewise weird models.
Its a pet peeve of mine, but if WH40k eventually mitigates that sort of clumsiness a bit, i'm ok with it (though my Toxicrene will continue to be a nightmare... who thought those tentacles were good ideas??)
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)
2014/11/29 20:48:10
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Its a pet peeve of mine, but if WH40k eventually mitigates that sort of clumsiness a bit, i'm ok with it (though my Toxicrene will continue to be a nightmare... who thought those tentacles were good ideas??)
I agree. It is a stupid design. What were they thinking? If I ever build one I'm going to reshape the tentacles. Same story for the Tyrrannocyte.
2014/11/29 21:08:15
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Hive Crone
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
1850
First game was Big Guns primary, Secondary was Tactical Escalation, Tertiary was rulebok secondaries with First Strike rather than first blood. Hammer and Anvil Deployment.
I played:
Commander with Marker Drones.
3 Riptides
2 lots of kroot + hound.
Summoning Farseer.
2 Serpents, dire avengers and 6 WraithGuard.
WraithKnight.
I pretty much killed the Serpents and kroot.
We took a draw on Primary, I one secondary and tertiary.
Second match was:
Primary Mission, Purge The Alien
Secondary Mission (Maelstrom of War) Cleanse and Control
Tertiary, Slay the Warlord , Line Breaker , 1st Strike
He had:
3 WraithKnights.
1 warlock.
Summoning farseer (although no summoning as this was kill points).
5 Serpents with Dire Avengers.
I took primary and he took secondary and Tertiary resulting in a draw 10/10.
I killed all Serpents and didn't lose a single Flyrant.
Last game was:
Primary, The Scouring. Secondary, Deadlock
Tertiary Slay the Warlord , Line Breaker , 1st Strike
lots and lots of Orks in lots of trukks.
I took Primary, secondary and Tertiary.
Almost tabled him apart from warlord and a big mek left.
won 20 - 0
I love 4 Flyrants, pretty sure I didn't make any friends today I finished 3rd over all.
Happy to answer questions if you have any.
2014/11/30 00:54:53
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Frozocrone wrote: Would anyone considering taking a CAD over a Hive Fleet Detachment if only to get Aegis/Bastion w/ Comms Relay?
I'm considering running a list with 2 Flyrants, two min unit Neurothropes in a Pod and two Dakkafex and thinking the Comms Relay would be much more useful than re-roll IB
The Leviathan detachment is not necessarily an auto-take. Many will run it to max out on flyrants. However, there will be some who won't base their offense primarily on those flyrants. Thus, a normal CAD is still viable, especially for the fortification.
Or you could just run Leviathan + normal CAD if you really wanted.
^^ this. There are only 4 reasons not to run Leviathan + normal CAD:
1) Your local TO deems it OP and disallows it
2) You agree with Ordosean and think it's too much like double CAD, so you restrict yourself
3) You really dislike Mucolids (the normal 45 point tax to open Leviathan)
4) You use a formation of some kind, thus disallowing both Leviathan and a CAD under the standard two source format
I plan on trying it out just to see what I can do with a bunch of Lictors. I think 2.5 extra lictors might be better over Deathleaper, so I'll throw 5-6 to fill up the Elites slots and see what happens from there. I don't plan on running a bunch of Flyrants, but I'll definitely be excited to see how our army fares in the next tournament that allows this.
You are forgetting one:
5) You cant run the Barbed Heirodule.
2014/11/30 01:17:09
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I'm not too concerned about the new bases. The majority will win out so all the current bases should be good. Besides, GW used to have a policy that you could always use the bases included with the models. I wouldn't even sweat it. Current bases should be good at tournaments for a while.
Only 2 choices. The LoW isn't a 3rd detachment. He is either part of the Primary or the Leviathan detachment.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
L0rdF1end wrote: Sadly I don't have any pictures to show you as we were playing 2.5 hours and 1850 so it was all a bit of a squeeze to get the game turns in.
Hive Crone
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
1850
First game was Big Guns primary, Secondary was Tactical Escalation, Tertiary was rulebok secondaries with First Strike rather than first blood. Hammer and Anvil Deployment.
I played:
Commander with Marker Drones.
3 Riptides
2 lots of kroot + hound.
Summoning Farseer.
2 Serpents, dire avengers and 6 WraithGuard.
WraithKnight.
I pretty much killed the Serpents and kroot.
We took a draw on Primary, I one secondary and tertiary.
Second match was:
Primary Mission, Purge The Alien
Secondary Mission (Maelstrom of War) Cleanse and Control
Tertiary, Slay the Warlord , Line Breaker , 1st Strike
He had:
3 WraithKnights.
1 warlock.
Summoning farseer (although no summoning as this was kill points).
5 Serpents with Dire Avengers.
I took primary and he took secondary and Tertiary resulting in a draw 10/10.
I killed all Serpents and didn't lose a single Flyrant.
Last game was:
Primary, The Scouring. Secondary, Deadlock
Tertiary Slay the Warlord , Line Breaker , 1st Strike
lots and lots of Orks in lots of trukks.
I took Primary, secondary and Tertiary.
Almost tabled him apart from warlord and a big mek left.
won 20 - 0
I love 4 Flyrants, pretty sure I didn't make any friends today I finished 3rd over all.
Happy to answer questions if you have any.
Nice!
Did you kill any of the wraithknights or did you just ignored them?
Yeah, Hive Fleet Leviathan + Skyblight is going to be sic! Probably one of the more successful Tyranid builds in tournament play. Then again, there's going to be so many good armies you can build with 4 flyrants.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/30 01:30:39
Frozocrone wrote: Would anyone considering taking a CAD over a Hive Fleet Detachment if only to get Aegis/Bastion w/ Comms Relay?
I'm considering running a list with 2 Flyrants, two min unit Neurothropes in a Pod and two Dakkafex and thinking the Comms Relay would be much more useful than re-roll IB
The Leviathan detachment is not necessarily an auto-take. Many will run it to max out on flyrants. However, there will be some who won't base their offense primarily on those flyrants. Thus, a normal CAD is still viable, especially for the fortification.
Or you could just run Leviathan + normal CAD if you really wanted.
^^ this. There are only 4 reasons not to run Leviathan + normal CAD:
1) Your local TO deems it OP and disallows it
2) You agree with Ordosean and think it's too much like double CAD, so you restrict yourself
3) You really dislike Mucolids (the normal 45 point tax to open Leviathan)
4) You use a formation of some kind, thus disallowing both Leviathan and a CAD under the standard two source format
I plan on trying it out just to see what I can do with a bunch of Lictors. I think 2.5 extra lictors might be better over Deathleaper, so I'll throw 5-6 to fill up the Elites slots and see what happens from there. I don't plan on running a bunch of Flyrants, but I'll definitely be excited to see how our army fares in the next tournament that allows this.
You are forgetting one:
5) You cant run the Barbed Heirodule.
6) You want to run an ally from another army (like Knights).
2014/11/30 04:02:06
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Fun little stupid thing I just realized about the new Fighter Ace. If you are lucky enough to get a majority of your FMCs with Sudden Escape, go second.
By going second you will be able to have you FMCs back on the field before the game turns ends, thus you can't loose from having no models on the board. If enough of your army has Sudden Escape, you will basically get free shooting against your opponent, and they will be staring at an empty table for their turn except for the few troops (or psychic powers).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 10:36:00
2014/11/30 10:51:24
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Only 2 choices. The LoW isn't a 3rd detachment. He is either part of the Primary or the Leviathan detachment.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
L0rdF1end wrote: Sadly I don't have any pictures to show you as we were playing 2.5 hours and 1850 so it was all a bit of a squeeze to get the game turns in.
Hive Crone
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
1850
First game was Big Guns primary, Secondary was Tactical Escalation, Tertiary was rulebok secondaries with First Strike rather than first blood. Hammer and Anvil Deployment.
I played:
Commander with Marker Drones.
3 Riptides
2 lots of kroot + hound.
Summoning Farseer.
2 Serpents, dire avengers and 6 WraithGuard.
WraithKnight.
I pretty much killed the Serpents and kroot.
We took a draw on Primary, I one secondary and tertiary.
Second match was:
Primary Mission, Purge The Alien
Secondary Mission (Maelstrom of War) Cleanse and Control
Tertiary, Slay the Warlord , Line Breaker , 1st Strike
He had:
3 WraithKnights.
1 warlock.
Summoning farseer (although no summoning as this was kill points).
5 Serpents with Dire Avengers.
I took primary and he took secondary and Tertiary resulting in a draw 10/10.
I killed all Serpents and didn't lose a single Flyrant.
Last game was:
Primary, The Scouring. Secondary, Deadlock
Tertiary Slay the Warlord , Line Breaker , 1st Strike
lots and lots of Orks in lots of trukks.
I took Primary, secondary and Tertiary.
Almost tabled him apart from warlord and a big mek left.
won 20 - 0
I love 4 Flyrants, pretty sure I didn't make any friends today I finished 3rd over all.
Happy to answer questions if you have any.
Nice!
Did you kill any of the wraithknights or did you just ignored them?
Yeah, Hive Fleet Leviathan + Skyblight is going to be sic! Probably one of the more successful Tyranid builds in tournament play. Then again, there's going to be so many good armies you can build with 4 flyrants.
I must try out the Barbed Hierodule that you guys rave about so much, Not sure what that will do to my list though.
Just ignored the wraith knights as usual along with the Riptides. maybe a shot here and there from Warp Blast but otherwise its the same deal as usual.
I don't get the deal with the Malanthrope either, just seems he could die to easy to a Wraith Knight as he's so big and difficult to hide.
Personally (without trying the Maly, Barbie), I'm still in favour of Skyblight as it brings durable units that can score late game along with OS Gargs,
2014/11/30 16:12:09
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Nilok wrote: Fun little stupid thing I just realized about the new Fighter Ace. If you are lucky enough to get a majority of your FMCs with Sudden Escape, go second.
By going second you will be able to have you FMCs back on the field before the game turns ends, thus you can't loose from having no models on the board. If enough of your army has Sudden Escape, you will basically get free shooting against your opponent, and they will be staring at an empty table for their turn except for the few troops (or psychic powers).
Yeah, that can be quite good.
However, to me, 35-pts is quite a steep price to pay for a 66% to get something good and only 33% for the flying off the table ability, which actually limits your Movement. Maybe for my Warlord, but I can't see myself spamming this.
I must try out the Barbed Hierodule that you guys rave about so much, Not sure what that will do to my list though.
Just ignored the wraith knights as usual along with the Riptides. maybe a shot here and there from Warp Blast but otherwise its the same deal as usual.
I don't get the deal with the Malanthrope either, just seems he could die to easy to a Wraith Knight as he's so big and difficult to hide.
Personally (without trying the Maly, Barbie), I'm still in favour of Skyblight as it brings durable units that can score late game along with OS Gargs,
The Malanthrope is a worthy upgrade over the venomthrope for most Tyranid army builds (not necessarily all).
The BH, while good, is not necessarily a must-take unit for any Tyranid army. Rather, to me, he is more of a playstyle-choice. Personally, I think MSU Tyranids (or Tyranids + Skyblight) > Tyranids + BH.
Then again, InControl did beat me out with his Barbed Hierodule Tyranid army for Best Tyranids at the BAO 2014 (I was running Skyblight and finished 2nd, though I was ahead of him going into our very last game). Lol.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/30 16:18:28
My thoughts were that the Nids would act as Anti air but otherwise being all over their deployment zone.
Horrors and fatey would hang out back and everything summoned would be midtable or his table half.
Screamerstar can just sit there and tie up a Wraith Knight or whatever.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/30 16:48:16
2014/11/30 20:00:44
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Personally, the Deathleaper is somewhat of a letdown to me compared to the previous edition. He really doesn't have anything special to offer to the army. But before I go into why he is such a disappointment in this edition, let us examine how he can contribute to a Tyranid army first.
1. The ability to pop up anyone on the table without scatter is highly useful. You can place him on an objective if you need. You can put him behind a vehicle for some rear shots. You can use him to lure enemy resources away from your main force as your opponent has to dedicate some of his resources to deal with your HQ. Basically, with Chameleonic Skin, you can dictate where you want your opponent to go to a degree.
2. Homing beacon. With the advent of Tyranid spore pods (tyrannocytes), he has become more useful than ever. Infiltrate him in a strategic location and the following turn, when you mawlocs or pods come in, they can do so accurately, assuming as long as Deathleaper survives.
3. He is actually an offensive threat to transports and smaller, MSU-type units. As a result, he really cannot be ignored and the opponent will have to deal with him and in doing so, you can direct where you want your opponent to go. It also helps to make your army slightly more durable as your opponent has to allocate some of his firepower/offense to deal with your HQ.
4. Bullet catcher. He is very durable to shooting thanks to his "Where Is It?" special rule. He can actually absorb a lot of firepower due to enemy units only being able to snap-shoot against it. So if your opponent decides to shoot at him, he would actually have to put a lot of resources/firepower into doing so. That means less guns against the rest of the Tyranid army.
5. "It's After Me!" This special rule of Deathleaper can be useful at times. It helps against MC characters against powers like the Horror and Psychic Scream. It also helps when an enemy character has to take a Perils in the Warp LD test.
Despite his general utility, the Deathleaper has actually gotten worse than in the previous edition. So why is he not as good?
1. Limited mobility. Before, he had an ability where he could go back into Reserves and redeploy anywhere he wanted. Now, that ability is gone and with it, basically his awesome mobility. Now he comes in from Reserves and he becomes a sitting duck, especially if he is your Warlord.
2. "It's After Me!" has been nerfed due to the changes in how Psychic Powers work. Before, the greatest asset of this special rule was that it would make it harder for psykers to get off their psychic powers (due to psychic tests testing on LD rather than on warp dice). Now, the special rule is reduced to more esoteric applications with more criteria that needs to be fulfilled before it can become useful.
3. He is vulnerable in Assault. T4 with 5+ means that he can very easily be killed in assault to anything other than a min-sized MSU unit. And with his lack of mobility, he just can't get away from some of the faster assault units.
4. No Synapse. For an HQ unit, he provides no Synapse relief, nor does he provide much in terms of offense or force-multiplication powers.
5. As an HQ unit, he has to compete with the almighty flyrant (Hive Tyrant with wings). I really can't see any reason to take him over a 2nd flyrant.
6. He is expensive. For the price of the Deathleaper, you can get 2 lictors and change, which in my opinion would be more useful to the army.
The only time that I can see him in gameplay is if one wants to run the Deathleaper's Assassin Brood formation. Otherwise, I can't recommend him in any Tyranid army, especially at the expense of another flyrant. Actually, I take that back. I would recommend him in a game, but only if you really want to take it easy on the opponent.
Grades: D
Old One Eye: (by jy2)
Old One Eye is mainly a hammer HQ unit. He does help out his army somewhat with his Alpha Leader special rule, but mainly, he is just a blunt-force tool used to ram down the enemy's throat. Although I have not used him yet, I am finding it hard to fit him into my lists. First of all, how does he fit into a Tyranid army?
1. Hammer time! This guy is a pure close combat beast, with 5 S10 attacks base and 6 on the charge, plus an additional attack with his tail. Moreover, for every hit he makes (not including his tail), he gets an additional hit. He can potentially case 12 S10 hits on the charge!
2. Tank crusher. This guy will smash any tanks in his way. With a natural S10, D3 S10 Hammer of Wrath hits on the charge and crushing claws, he will turn any tank he encounters into scrap metal. If only his Initiative was higher, he'd be perfect against Imperial Knights. But as it is, it is better for him to receive the charge in cover from an Imperial Knight than for him to charge one instead. At least he will still get his D3 S10 Hammer of Wrath hits against a knight. So moral of the story? Do not charge a knight unless it only has 1-2 HP's remaining or out of sheer desperation.
3. Alpha Leader. This is the only force-multiplication power that Old One Eye provides for the army. It can help the Tyranid gribblies and lesser creatures, but it is no substitute for Synapse.
4. Tyrannocytes. One of his biggest weaknesses is his lack of mobility. You can now address this weakness by putting Old "Pod" Eye in a Tyrannocyte spore.
5. Cost. He's come down in price by 30-pts since the previous edition. Now, it doesn't hurt quite as much as it used to to give him a try in your army.
So with his devastating close combat prowess, is he worth taking in a Tyranid army? Before you do, you need to realize that he's got some serious drawbacks.
1. Very limited mobility. He is slow as gak. He doesn't even have the option to take Adrenal Glands. Now taking a Tyrannocyte spore can help to address this weakness. It would also take him to almost 300-pts, which then makes him exorbitant cost-wise!
2. No Synapse. While Alpha Leader is decent, it is still no substitute for Synapse. Testing on LD8 for Instinctive Behavior just cannot compare to not even having to test for Instinctive Behavior. Worst of all, OOE himself is vulnerable to this. There's nothing worse than if you have to clear an enemy unit on an objective, fail your Instinctive Behavior test and end up charging the wrong target just because it is closer. That is a game-loser there.
3. For a cc-brute, WS3 and no re-rolls to hit just cannot compare to some of the other, more specialized assault units in the game. Throw in low Initiative and OOE will be lucky if he can even survive an assault by an Imperial Knight out of cover. Any assault unit that can fight back before OOE gets to attack, or units buffed up with good defenses (i.e. 3++ storm shields, Invisibility, Fortune, Destroyer weaponry attacking first, etc.) will beat down OOE. Finally, lack of grenades or any type of Invulnerable save means that this unit who is supposed to be a close combat specialist just cannot compete with many of the other assault specialists in the game.
4. Resiliency. For someone who costs almost as much as 2 stock carnifexes, he is just slightly more resilient than 1 carnifex. Although he has Regeneration and can get FNP after taking the 1st Wound (that is, if you make him your Warlord), 4 Wounds on this beast just does not cut it. If forced to footslog against the enemy, there is just no way he will ever make it into combat if the enemy does not allow him to. Putting him in a tyrannocyte spore improves his chances of seeing action. Still, if the opponent opted to focus on him, he should be gone in 1 turn of concentrated firepower. If the opposition focuses on him, his regeneration wouldn't even come into play as he should be dead before the turn is over.
5. As an HQ unit, he has to compete with the almighty flyrant (Hive Tyrant with wings). It is really hard to justify taking him over a flyrant, unless one plays in a meta where you see lots of land raiders and other heavy armor. Still, his lack of resiliency makes it hard to take him even in such a case.
6. Cost. While he is cheaper now than he was before, as a pure CC beast, he still cannot compete against the likes of the dimachaeron. He isn't even as good as a unit of 2 stock carnifexes (though while a little more expensive, they are almost twice as survivable as OOE).
Old One Eye has some promise. GW made him an attractive assault option for the Tyranid army as well as a super tankbuster. However, design-wise, his limitations as an assault unit is just too great for me to ever recommend him for any Tyranid army. Actually, I take that back. I would recommend him in a game, but only if you really want to take it easy on the opponent.
Grades: D (on foot), C (in Tyrannocyte)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 20:04:13
Eldercaveman wrote: Does anyone have a Size comparison for the Mieotic spore and the Mucoloid?
I don't have exact measurements, but I'm pretty sure the mucolid is taller than the meiotic spore (i do own the meiotic spore models). Meiotic spores are about as tall as a zoanthrope. The mucolid is a little taller.
Eldercaveman wrote: Does anyone have a Size comparison for the Mieotic spore and the Mucoloid?
I don't have exact measurements, but I'm pretty sure the mucolid is taller than the meiotic spore (i do own the meiotic spore models). Meiotic spores are about as tall as a zoanthrope. The mucolid is a little taller.
Ah so about an inch in height, thats. not too bad. Better than not putting the Tentacles onto the Tyrannocyte as far as TLOS goes.
Yeah, I plan to use my meiotic spores as mucolids as well. Just raise the bases somewhat and then it'll probably be good. But first of all, I need to build my Mucolid to see how tall it actually is.
jy2 wrote: Yeah, I plan to use my meiotic spores as mucolids as well. Just raise the bases somewhat and then it'll probably be good. But first of all, I need to build my Mucolid to see how tall it actually is.
Rippers have the unique privilege of pulling off a complete "worst to first" comeback in the Tyranid troops department. Historically, they have paid as much per wound as a Termagant while filling a troop slot, without even being able to score. Now, however, 7th edition has made them the best scoring unit for Tyranids in our codex, by allowing them to score and also giving them the Objective Secured rule.
Rippers are most commonly run as a unit of three models, with the Deepstrike special rule purchased. This gives us 9 t3 wounds that score and can reach all over the battlefield thanks to the Deep Strike rule, at 5 points per wound. However, what makes Rippers much better than Gants is that they naturally come with the fearless rule, and move through difficult terrain at full speed thanks to the swarm rule. While Rippers take instinctive behavior tests just like gants, the failure result is much less severe, as the unit takes 3 strength 3 hits in the worst scenario, instead of falling back. Fun fact, it is actually impossible for Rippers to completely kill themselves, as some people fear, because, once the unit is down to a single model they no longer inflict wounds. By removing the need for Synapse units to babysit his troops, a Tyranid player can spend more points on heavy hitters than support units, and allows them to move their units more freely.
Rippers also have the innate advantage of their model, which is one of the shortest in the game. For a unit whose job is purely to take objectives, they want to stay out of sight, and actually can't be seen behind an Aegis Defense line or under most windows on Ruins. This makes the rippers easy to move around the battlefield thanks to their Deepstrike, and easy to hide thanks to low threat and low profile.
Rippers have several options that they can purchase, but I think that all of them are wasted points that distract from the true purpose of the unit.
Spinefists: For 4 points, 4 twinlinked shots at strength 3 aren't bad, but at BS 2 won't generate many hits and are too low strength to deal much damage. Plus, you never want these guys to be in line of sight of an enemy unit that is almost certain to out-shoot them.
Toxin Sacks: Again, 4 points per model gives poison attacks, but again I feel these are wasted. They are only truly helpful against high toughness units, but MCs will almost always cause Instant Death to the Rippers, and at initiative 2 they will rarely even swing before dying.
Adrenal Glands: 6 points per model gives fleet and furious charge, but these really shouldn't be charging anyone. Again, they will lose most combats they find, and although they could glance out vehicles, the points required are too steep.
Alternative roles: Although I would prefer to keep them out of sight and out of combat, your enemy will almost always mess with your plans and try to remove your troops. Rippers can hold their own in assault against weak units like combat squads, thanks to 4 attacks base and 3 wounds each. On the charge they can handle some light threats, but again this should be a last attempt of desperation, not a plan, as they are low Initiative and WS, and only have a 6+ save, making them fragile at best.
Worth mentioning again is that Swarms have Move Through cover and always move 6" in terrain, meaning they should always be in terrain, all the time, to give them a better save. Keep them cheap and small, and they can grab Objectives for you late and hide on them while your main force ties up the enemy.
Grade: A- (Deep Strike), B (vanilla), C+ (Spinefists)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 22:00:28
2014/11/30 22:13:41
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Rippers have the unique privilege of pulling off a complete "worst to first" comeback in the Tyranid troops department. Historically, they have paid as much per wound as a Termagant while filling a troop slot, without even being able to score. Now, however, 7th edition has made them the best scoring unit for Tyranids in our codex, by allowing them to score and also giving them the Objective Secured rule.
Rippers are most commonly run as a unit of three models, with the Deepstrike special rule purchased. This gives us 9 t3 wounds that score and can reach all over the battlefield thanks to the Deep Strike rule, at 5 points per wound. However, what makes Rippers much better than Gants is that they naturally come with the fearless rule, and move through difficult terrain at full speed thanks to the swarm rule. While Rippers take instinctive behavior tests just like gants, the failure result is much less severe, as the unit takes 3 strength 3 hits in the worst scenario, instead of falling back. Fun fact, it is actually impossible for Rippers to completely kill themselves, as some people fear, because, once the unit is down to a single model they no longer inflict wounds. By removing the need for Synapse units to babysit his troops, a Tyranid player can spend more points on heavy hitters than support units, and allows them to move their units more freely.
Rippers also have the innate advantage of their model, which is one of the shortest in the game. For a unit whose job is purely to take objectives, they want to stay out of sight, and actually can't be seen behind an Aegis Defense line or under most windows on Ruins. This makes the rippers easy to move around the battlefield thanks to their Deepstrike, and easy to hide thanks to low threat and low profile.
Rippers have several options that they can purchase, but I think that all of them are wasted points that distract from the true purpose of the unit.
Spinefists: For 4 points, 4 twinlinked shots at strength 3 aren't bad, but at BS 2 won't generate many hits and are too low strength to deal much damage. Plus, you never want these guys to be in line of sight of an enemy unit that is almost certain to out-shoot them.
Toxin Sacks: Again, 4 points per model gives poison attacks, but again I feel these are wasted. They are only truly helpful against high toughness units, but MCs will almost always cause Instant Death to the Rippers, and at initiative 2 they will rarely even swing before dying.
Adrenal Glands: 6 points per model gives fleet and furious charge, but these really shouldn't be charging anyone. Again, they will lose most combats they find, and although they could glance out vehicles, the points required are too steep.
Alternative roles: Although I would prefer to keep them out of sight and out of combat, your enemy will almost always mess with your plans and try to remove your troops. Rippers can hold their own in assault against weak units like combat squads, thanks to 4 attacks base and 3 wounds each. On the charge they can handle some light threats, but again this should be a last attempt of desperation, not a plan, as they are low Initiative and WS, and only have a 6+ save, making them fragile at best.
Worth mentioning again is that Swarms have Move Through cover and always move 6" in terrain, meaning they should always be in terrain, all the time, to give them a better save. Keep them cheap and small, and they can grab Objectives for you late and hide on them while your main force ties up the enemy.
Grade: A- (Deep Strike), B (vanilla), C+ (Spinefists)
Great review. Thanks jifel!
One thing to note is this. If you take the Forgeworld models, they are even harder to hide than standard termagants/hormagants.
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