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2015/02/04 17:52:04
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Strat_N8 wrote: You could use the Deathleaper Assassin Brood formation to unlock some of the Lictors (gives a nice Ld penalty bubble too). Would use the second source though...
.
That was the original plan, but then I realized I could get 5-6 molwac's , you have so many points to play with when you dont take flyrants lol
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 17:56:14
2015/02/04 19:04:48
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Advice on positioning and how to place 4 Hive Tyrants and not get them shot out until they are ready to lift on on your turn? How do you guys normally deploy them?
(Considering you DO have a Malanthrope but no fortifications)
Easy Stable Flying base tutorial here on Dakka:
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2015/02/04 19:06:20
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
syypher wrote: Advice on positioning and how to place 4 Hive Tyrants and not get them shot out until they are ready to lift on on your turn? How do you guys normally deploy them?
(Considering you DO have a Malanthrope but no fortifications)
Bastion, and depending on the matchup and if you have a coms you may want to just start them off the board. If its tau, just stay out of marker light range and behind a bastion or in cover with a malenthrope near by.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 19:06:51
2015/02/04 19:08:47
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
syypher wrote: Advice on positioning and how to place 4 Hive Tyrants and not get them shot out until they are ready to lift on on your turn? How do you guys normally deploy them?
(Considering you DO have a Malanthrope but no fortifications)
Find a piece of 'area' terrain or a Ruin and get your toes in, with Malonthrope bubble over all of them. Bubble wrap with Gargoyles. Even better if you have LOS blocking terrain, get behind that if you are in no danger of being shot at.
syypher wrote: Advice on positioning and how to place 4 Hive Tyrants and not get them shot out until they are ready to lift on on your turn? How do you guys normally deploy them?
(Considering you DO have a Malanthrope but no fortifications)
Bastion, and depending on the matchup and if you have a coms you may want to just start them off the board. If its tau, just stay out of marker light range and behind a bastion or in cover with a malenthrope near by.
The problem is Syypher can't take a Bastion with just a Leviathan detachment- hence asking advice abôut how to cope without it.
syypher wrote: Advice on positioning and how to place 4 Hive Tyrants and not get them shot out until they are ready to lift on on your turn? How do you guys normally deploy them?
(Considering you DO have a Malanthrope but no fortifications)
Bastion, and depending on the matchup and if you have a coms you may want to just start them off the board. If its tau, just stay out of marker light range and behind a bastion or in cover with a malenthrope near by.
The problem is Syypher can't take a Bastion with just a Leviathan detachment- hence asking advice abôut how to cope without it.
This >_<
Though most of the tournaments locally here are going to start adopting 3 sources (Adepticon and NOVA are juggling whether to open up to 3 at the moment and it looks like signs are pointing to 3 sources with certain limitations, check it out on their pages), some of the tournaments here are still doing 2 for the moment.
If I want a formation like Skytyrant and my Leviathan I can't take fortifications yet :(
Good advice though on the area terrain and toeing in and just having a Malanthrope nearby + gargoyle wall. I didn't think about Gargoyles wall giving my Tyrants cover. I forgot about that hahah Thanks for reminding me. With a comms relay I think starting some off the field could be doable but probably only if absolutely necessary. I'd rather not start my Tyrants off the board but wouldn't mind if needed.
Considering Markerlights are 36" it might be tough to keep out of range of them usually.
Also... why would you take void shields over a bastion? Just seems Bastion + Malanthrope is better overall for turn 1 defense... or am I missing something?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 19:37:53
Easy Stable Flying base tutorial here on Dakka:
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2015/02/04 19:40:06
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
jy2 wrote: For the formation, you pick the Warlord trait from the BRB. You cannot pick it from a Detachment that it isn't a part of. So for example, Leviathan + Skyblight. The Flyrant in the Skyblight formation cannot pick a Leviathan Warlord trait. It can only pick from the traits from the BRB.
Are you sure? I'm looking at the Warlord Traits table in the Leviathan book and it says a Tyranid Warlord maychoose to roll on the table, right, instead of the BRB or Codex. Am I missing something here?
Also I voted Tyranids but not Pentyrant, I personally think Skyblight would be better due to respawn OS troops. Pentyrant is still strong, so I wouldn't fault you for choosing it.
Can you quote to me what it says under the Warlord Traits in the Leviathan book. The online copy that I have is not quite so clear.
jy2 wrote: I feel for you. As a Tyranid player, I still f*cking hate Tau. They are still one of our worst matchups. I think I can consistently beat them with my Pentyrant list, but spamming skyrays will just make it much, much tougher for us Tyranid players.
I wouldn't be so confident, because it depends on the Tau list. Some of them will blow 5 Tyrants off the table. You lose 1 Tyrant per Skyray, and then Buffmander can usually drop one tyrant a turn. A couple Skyfire burstides and you are lucky if you don't get tabled. You might have enough firepower to kill 1 Riptide or 1 Skyray, or Buffmander, but usually there is no way you can get 2 of them because they will have you neutered by turn 2. A Barbed Heirodule is a better matchup against such a list because it is mainly worried about buffmander, and can keep skyrays jinking and is a major threat to Riptides which Tyrants are not.
The reason this particular list was a problem for me was that he Siezed (On a 4+ because of LOW and his Warlord Trait), and the imperial knights kept Barbie from being able to advance upfield. And My Warlord Killed himself with perils. There was a chance I could have deployed my Tyrants real, real deep in my backfield, and flown them off on turn 1, but that would have probably given the Knights a turn 2 charge on Barbie.
Allow me to clarify. When I said "consistently", I didn't mean beat them all the time. I just meant that I think that I can beat them more regularly than with my other Tyranid armies. It is still a tough matchup. It just isn't as uphill a battle as it used to be.
Destroyer Cult ····Destroyer Lord [Staff of Light]
····Destroyers [6x Destroyer]
····Destroyers [5x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer]
····Destroyers [5x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer]
····Heavy Destroyers [3x Heavy Destroyer]
Sorry, but your list is not legal. The Destroyer Cult formation is very specific. You can only take 3 units of 3 destroyers and 1 unit of Heavy destroyers. No more, no less.
I'm looking at the datasheet, it says that they must be at least 3 models, not that they must be only 3 models.
You are correct. My mistake. On my first reading of the codex, I missed the wording "at least".
luke1705 wrote: So I figured you guys would appreciate this. I may be able to play this on Friday if I can get one model finished (or heck, I could just proxy it). In any case, I present to you, my version of NecroNids:
Leviathan Detachment:
Flyrant w/the works - 240
Flyrant w/the works - 240
Flyrant w/the works - 240
1850 on the nose. Considering dropping a wraith to grab whip coils for its friends and some goodies for the bargelord. Maybe even 2 wraiths to also give my warlord Flyrant fighter ace. The best part is that the cron troops are rock solid obsec, and the worst part is that the wraiths are just regular wraiths :( but somehow I think it'll be ok
It is a good list and a more balanced one than my wraithspam NecroNids. Definitely try to find the points to fit in whip coils for your wraiths. It makes a world of difference to be able to attack before MEQ's, gribblies, ork boyz, thunderwolf cavalry, dreadknights, dreadnoughts or other units like that.
Also, really consider swapping out your bargelord for a Destroyer Lord. I'd probably downgrade 1 unit of 10 warriors + transport to a unit of 5 immortals (the objective-hiders) and then use the rest to buff up your units.
Also... why would you take void shields over a bastion? Just seems Bastion + Malanthrope is better overall for turn 1 defense... or am I missing something?
Well, the void shields have been made better by a couple of ITC rulings. Basically, a lot of tournaments, including the BAO/LVO/etc. follow the ITC FAQ's.
1) All you need is 1 model in range and the whole unit is protected. Thus, if you advance you big-a$$ SkyTyrant footprint forwards, just trail a few models behind to VSG and malanthrope range for both cover and void shield protection.
2) They ruled it that grav-weaponry can can do nothing to it. Thus, that nerfs the centurionstar and white scars big time. Grav weaponry can do nothing to a unit under VSG protection unless they are shooting from within 12" of the VSG.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 19:54:57
syypher wrote: OMG I just looked up a VSG. It's $300 for one O_O?!?!??! What???
Ok, Bastions + Comms it is! LOL
Or you could convert. Most people would be ok if you ran brought something that looked Tyranid-ish.
Just keep in mind that you can't take a fortification with the Leviathan detachment, but you could if you were to ally in a standard Combined Arms detachment.
syypher wrote: OMG I just looked up a VSG. It's $300 for one O_O?!?!??! What???
Ok, Bastions + Comms it is! LOL
Or you could convert. Most people would be ok if you ran brought something that looked Tyranid-ish.
Just keep in mind that you can't take a fortification with the Leviathan detachment, but you could if you were to ally in a standard Combined Arms detachment.
Definitely. I'm going to ask around first and see if the locals use ITC rulings for the most part. I'm pretty sure they do but just making sure
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2015/02/04 21:11:25
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
syypher wrote:
The problem is Syypher can't take a Bastion with just a Leviathan detachment- hence asking advice abôut how to cope without it.
Ah true, but you could just as easily convert it to cad, plus levi..unless you are taking a formation as a 2nd source. The bastion is huge for the bugs I think, especally when if you need to, you can just start units of spore mines and the bastion on the table turn 1. Works great in kp missions and you dont exactly give up fb easily, which is big in say lvo format where fb is HUGE.
syypher wrote:Though most of the tournaments locally here are going to start adopting 3 sources (Adepticon and NOVA are juggling whether to open up to 3 at the moment and it looks like signs are pointing to 3 sources with certain limitations, check it out on their pages), some of the tournaments here are still doing 2 for the moment..
I am not sure what part of the country you currently play in, and what gts you plan on attending, but having talked to most tos on the east coast, as far as I know outside of adepticon and del a warr (sp?) most gts east of chicago will be 2 source.
syypher wrote: If I want a formation like Skytyrant and my Leviathan I can't take fortifications yet
This is true, but the more I see competitive nids play, and the more I play against them, the less and less I like the skytyant formation. I just dont think it gives you enough board presence to be worth it. Plus I know I am in the minority in this but I think lacking obsec is a huge flaw. My lvo list has 9 obsec units in it, and it has been a huge advantage vs armys with little or no obsec in testing.
syypher wrote:Considering Markerlights are 36" it might be tough to keep out of range of them usually.
Well with los blockers, you should not have a difficult time staying out of marker range. Obviously its not an exact science, it depends if you deploy first, the mission, whats in your opponents list etc..but if you can stay out of marker range vs tau, I would deploy the flyrants on the table, if not I would take my chances in reserve.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 21:42:54
2015/02/04 21:18:08
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
syypher wrote: If I want a formation like Skytyrant and my Leviathan I can't take fortifications yet
This is true, but the more I see competitive nids play, and the more I play against them, the less and less I like the skytyant formation. I just dont think it gives you enough board presence to be worth it. Plus I know I am in the majority in this but I think lacking obsec is a huge flaw. My lvo list has 9 obsec units in it, and it has been a huge advantage vs armys with little or no obsec in testing.
Would you mind sharing your list? 9 obsec units? I'm not use to seeing that in the Maximum threat type lists for Nids I see everywhere.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/04 21:18:24
Easy Stable Flying base tutorial here on Dakka:
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Check out my Tyrannofex Conversion tutorial here on Dakka:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/334523.page
Check out my Librarian holding fire tutorial here on Dakka:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/314801.page
2015/02/04 21:22:10
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
If you start your Flyrants off the board due to no cover or Bastion do you lose strike capacity / board control turn 1-2 and risk getting them in piecemeal? How do you counter this?
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough".
2015/02/04 21:48:42
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
syypher wrote: If I want a formation like Skytyrant and my Leviathan I can't take fortifications yet
This is true, but the more I see competitive nids play, and the more I play against them, the less and less I like the skytyant formation. I just dont think it gives you enough board presence to be worth it. Plus I know I am in the majority in this but I think lacking obsec is a huge flaw. My lvo list has 9 obsec units in it, and it has been a huge advantage vs armys with little or no obsec in testing.
Would you mind sharing your list? 9 obsec units? I'm not use to seeing that in the Maximum threat type lists for Nids I see everywhere.
Its eldar, but I have no problem sharing lol, not sure what I would run with bugs. In my league im going for at least 5 obsec units.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ratius wrote: If you start your Flyrants off the board due to no cover or Bastion do you lose strike capacity / board control turn 1-2 and risk getting them in piecemeal? How do you counter this?
you have a 75% chance of getting at least 3 with a coms on turn 2, and thats much better then only have 3 on the board because you lost 1 first turn. Plus if you have a null deployment then your opponent literally gets nothing out of going first, and has to deal with you having last turn. Which is great for flying units trying to grab objectives.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/04 21:50:23
2015/02/04 21:50:33
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Ratius wrote: If you start your Flyrants off the board due to no cover or Bastion do you lose strike capacity / board control turn 1-2 and risk getting them in piecemeal? How do you counter this?
This was one of the things I was having a hard time wrapping my head around. If you start off the board you give up a lot of board control which, with such few obsec models, it seems like you need to start off strong with board control...
Ratius wrote: If you start your Flyrants off the board due to no cover or Bastion do you lose strike capacity / board control turn 1-2 and risk getting them in piecemeal? How do you counter this?
This was one of the things I was having a hard time wrapping my head around. If you start off the board you give up a lot of board control which, with such few obsec models, it seems like you need to start off strong with board control...
Ah, Krootman answered
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/04 22:00:15
Easy Stable Flying base tutorial here on Dakka:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/356483.page
Check out my Tyrannofex Conversion tutorial here on Dakka:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/334523.page
Check out my Librarian holding fire tutorial here on Dakka:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/314801.page
2015/02/04 22:04:34
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
So De La Warr is 2000 pts, no Forgeworld. I want to take a tough but fun list. I need help getting this 2020 down to 2000. Its geared towards owning ALL the objectives.
Iechine wrote: So De La Warr is 2000 pts, no Forgeworld. I want to take a tough but fun list. I need help getting this 2020 down to 2000. Its geared towards owning ALL the objectives.
Obviously I can lose Electroshock on the Tervigon and a Tyrant but I really feel like when she drops in she'll have a target.
I would skip out on DLAB entirely. You have 5 open elites slots that can all be lictors. That frees up 130 points. Use 45 for a malanthrope, and then upgrade your mucolids to rippers. Sadly, that's 5 points over the limit (assuming you give your rippers deep strike) so one squad might have to not have deep strike....or you could skip the EGrubs on your Tervigon to give deep strike to your second ripper squad. Basically what I run, except I trade the Tyrannocyte w/Tervigon for...you guessed it! A fourth flyrant haha. To be clear, that's my tournament list. Not my friendly one lol
2015/02/04 23:40:58
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Iechine wrote: So De La Warr is 2000 pts, no Forgeworld. I want to take a tough but fun list. I need help getting this 2020 down to 2000. Its geared towards owning ALL the objectives.
Obviously I can lose Electroshock on the Tervigon and a Tyrant but I really feel like when she drops in she'll have a target.
I can't remember what the benefits were for running the Assassin's brood, but you can still run up to five lictors between your detachments. If you drop the numbers down, you could include a bastion with Comms as well to help bring in your Tervigon and Mawlocs.
Iechine wrote: So De La Warr is 2000 pts, no Forgeworld. I want to take a tough but fun list. I need help getting this 2020 down to 2000. Its geared towards owning ALL the objectives.
Obviously I can lose Electroshock on the Tervigon and a Tyrant but I really feel like when she drops in she'll have a target.
I would skip out on DLAB entirely. You have 5 open elites slots that can all be lictors. That frees up 130 points. Use 45 for a malanthrope, and then upgrade your mucolids to rippers. Sadly, that's 5 points over the limit (assuming you give your rippers deep strike) so one squad might have to not have deep strike....or you could skip the EGrubs on your Tervigon to give deep strike to your second ripper squad. Basically what I run, except I trade the Tyrannocyte w/Tervigon for...you guessed it! A fourth flyrant haha. To be clear, that's my tournament list. Not my friendly one lol
Looks like no Forgeworld, so no Malanthrope.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 23:43:16
Ratius wrote: If you start your Flyrants off the board due to no cover or Bastion do you lose strike capacity / board control turn 1-2 and risk getting them in piecemeal? How do you counter this?
This is almost never a good idea. Even if you are playing on planet bowling ball with no terrain (which should not happen btw) you will still be able to jink for 4+. Top that off with the Malanthrope/venomthrope shrouded to give you a 2+ cover save in the open. Things that ignore cover typically struggle to wound T6, and are not usually AP 3 or better, so you get your armor save. And remember, this is all just talking about the alpha strike, which will be negated by one of two things:
1) 50% of the time you will go first (roughly)
2) Range. There are not a ton of armies with effective alpha threat range of over 30", and you can easily deploy 30+ inches away, even in dawn of war deployment.
But really. Bring a bastion. Or a void shield generator. You don't want to have to jink. Although the real void shield generator model is stupid expensive because GW inexplicably decided to make it a limited run (why?), it's rather easy to build your own. I'm holding out because I still have to Tyranid-ize my bastion and I'm just deluded enough to think that a crazy deal might happen on ebay or a trading site sometime.
Iechine wrote: So De La Warr is 2000 pts, no Forgeworld. I want to take a tough but fun list. I need help getting this 2020 down to 2000. Its geared towards owning ALL the objectives.
Obviously I can lose Electroshock on the Tervigon and a Tyrant but I really feel like when she drops in she'll have a target.
I can't remember what the benefits were for running the Assassin's brood, but you can still run up to five lictors between your detachments. If you drop the numbers down, you could include a bastion with Comms as well to help bring in your Tervigon and Mawlocs.
Iechine wrote: So De La Warr is 2000 pts, no Forgeworld. I want to take a tough but fun list. I need help getting this 2020 down to 2000. Its geared towards owning ALL the objectives.
Obviously I can lose Electroshock on the Tervigon and a Tyrant but I really feel like when she drops in she'll have a target.
I would skip out on DLAB entirely. You have 5 open elites slots that can all be lictors. That frees up 130 points. Use 45 for a malanthrope, and then upgrade your mucolids to rippers. Sadly, that's 5 points over the limit (assuming you give your rippers deep strike) so one squad might have to not have deep strike....or you could skip the EGrubs on your Tervigon to give deep strike to your second ripper squad. Basically what I run, except I trade the Tyrannocyte w/Tervigon for...you guessed it! A fourth flyrant haha. To be clear, that's my tournament list. Not my friendly one lol
Looks like no Forgeworld, so no Malanthrope.
Indeed you are right about that, I glanced over it. So that frees up even more points. Enjoy them!
IIRC The benefits of the DLAB include a -1 LD bubble when within 12" of a lictor from the formation. Not bad but also hardly game-changing if you don't NEED deathleaper. People usually take it for the expanded FOC, but Deathleaper is now the most invisible unit in the game (or at least better than normal invisibility under the LVO format with nerfed invisibility)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 23:48:03
2015/02/04 23:50:33
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
tag8833 wrote: Played Ad Lance coupled with Tau tonight.
The Tau part was 2 Skyrays, a Skyfire burstide, and and some suites with missile pods.
I was running my LVO list. 3 Flyrants, Barbed Heirodule.
He seized on me and toasted one flyrant on the ground, and then turn 2, he killed a 2nd one, and I perils casting Warp Lance and was sucked into the warp with my warlord who hadn't yet taken a wound. I did manage to kill 2 of the Knights, but the third one charged Barbie on turn 3 (Boxcars!), and killed it on turn 4 for a complete tabling. Quite a frustrating game. Skyrays are so absurd. I hate Tau.
Tau may cheese , but they cheese for the greater good.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
krootman. wrote: So im playing in an escalation league at my store. Because I enjoy a good challenge, im going to try to make Flyrantless nids work!!!!
You have to make a 1k list then build off that.
Week 1 is kps so im trying the following
prime with norm queen
3 venonthropes
30 guants
25 guants
3 spore mines
3 spore mines
3 malwocs
The plan is just to start the mines on the board hiding then have the army come in as late as possible, have the molwocs kill maybe 1 unit then win 1-0 hahaah
Can't you try running Endless? I thought Formations were Battle Forged, just toss in a cheap (ish) HQ and a pair of Mucolids...?
the goal is to end up with a bunch of lictors and 6 malwocs at 2k, the question is...can they work?! I think in the confines of rulebook missions, 2 source limit and fw. they might be able to work.
I understand the use for Bastions and why it's very important to keep the Malanthrope protected and also extend his cover save bonuses to the Hive Tyrants turn 1 to keep them safe before they can lift off...
However in a 2 source tournament (trying out Leviathan + Skyblight) it seems like I can't fit in a fortification since Leviathan FoC doesn't have it.
List so far:
Leviathan
3 Flyrant
Malanthrope
3 Mucolid
Skyblight
1 Flyrant
1 Crone
2 Harpy
3 Gargoyles
That's 115 points left. I don't want all my Flyrants getting taken out turn 1. What do you guys think? Am I overthinking it without the Bastion? Is the Bastion/Fortifications pretty much mandatory for competitive lists? I know it's because of my lack of experience... but how do you go about protecting your Tyrants t1 before you lift off without the "security blanket" of a bastion or void shields?
It's not mandatory...but it is Dang useful. Personally I don't use one, but I don't fault anybody who does. I suggest you try not having one, and see how it works.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/05 00:01:47
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2015/02/05 00:20:13
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I understand the use for Bastions and why it's very important to keep the Malanthrope protected and also extend his cover save bonuses to the Hive Tyrants turn 1 to keep them safe before they can lift off...
However in a 2 source tournament (trying out Leviathan + Skyblight) it seems like I can't fit in a fortification since Leviathan FoC doesn't have it.
List so far:
Leviathan
3 Flyrant
Malanthrope
3 Mucolid
Skyblight
1 Flyrant
1 Crone
2 Harpy
3 Gargoyles
That's 115 points left. I don't want all my Flyrants getting taken out turn 1. What do you guys think? Am I overthinking it without the Bastion? Is the Bastion/Fortifications pretty much mandatory for competitive lists? I know it's because of my lack of experience... but how do you go about protecting your Tyrants t1 before you lift off without the "security blanket" of a bastion or void shields?
It's kind of like a rock paper scissors game. In many situations, you'll get out and be ok without it. Then you will run into centstar, white scars, and drop pod marines and hate yourself. You'll almost never lose more than 1 flyrant (unless the dice gods REALLY hate you). The point of a competitive TAC list is building a list that has no hard counters (or minimizes them). The bastion/void shield generator does the latter for many of the harder matchups that flyrant heavy lists face (and I mean, they really do fine against those 3 armies I listed too, so long as you don't let them get the drop on you unprotected)
2015/02/05 03:20:29
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Ratius wrote: If you start your Flyrants off the board due to no cover or Bastion do you lose strike capacity / board control turn 1-2 and risk getting them in piecemeal? How do you counter this?
This is almost never a good idea. Even if you are playing on planet bowling ball with no terrain (which should not happen btw) you will still be able to jink for 4+. Top that off with the Malanthrope/venomthrope shrouded to give you a 2+ cover save in the open. Things that ignore cover typically struggle to wound T6, and are not usually AP 3 or better, so you get your armor save. And remember, this is all just talking about the alpha strike, which will be negated by one of two things:
1) 50% of the time you will go first (roughly)
2) Range. There are not a ton of armies with effective alpha threat range of over 30", and you can easily deploy 30+ inches away, even in dawn of war deployment.
But really. Bring a bastion. Or a void shield generator. You don't want to have to jink. Although the real void shield generator model is stupid expensive because GW inexplicably decided to make it a limited run (why?), it's rather easy to build your own. I'm holding out because I still have to Tyranid-ize my bastion and I'm just deluded enough to think that a crazy deal might happen on ebay or a trading site sometime.
I 2nd the bastion, and there are a lot of good reasons why you should deploy on the board, but My point is, you don't always have to deploy the flyrants on the board. Most of the time you will, but there I will be some matchups where it will be better deploying them in reserve.
2015/02/05 04:02:18
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
krootman. wrote: I 2nd the bastion, and there are a lot of good reasons why you should deploy on the board, but My point is, you don't always have to deploy the flyrants on the board. Most of the time you will, but there I will be some matchups where it will be better deploying them in reserve.
So I agree with you in theory, but am unable to bring to mind any matchups where you would be better off reserving flyrants. There are certain reserve heavy lists where it might be good to deploy on the table, and then fly off on turn 1, but I just cannot bring to mind any matchups where reserving flyrants gives you a better chance of winning in a normal sized game (1500-2000). What sort of matchups are you envisioning? What would you deploy on the table in those matchups?
2015/02/05 04:29:08
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Reserving the flyrants is a highly situational event.
Against certain armies in hammer and anvil if you roll the infiltrate warlord trait it can be beneficial to outflank your flyrants. In pitched battle or vanguard I could see reserving them against certain high firepower armies if you cant get good blocking angles or they have major mobile fire power(cent star, drop pods, scouting bikers).
Its a tough thing to say because I agree that starting on the board is mostly better. But in cases in tournaments I would say reserving them might be the answer based on individual scenarios and matchups.
So to say there is never a situation where reserving them is the right play is also wrong.
2015/02/05 04:42:36
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Hi, going to my first tournament this weekend. This is the list I'm planning on bringing.
1850 Points
Combined arms detachment
Flying hive tyrant
2x Twin linked devourers
Grubs
Flying hive tyrant
2x Twin linked devourers
Grubs
Venomthrope
3x ripperswarms
deepstrike
3x ripperswarms
deepstrike
15x Gargoyles
Hivecrone
Stinger salvo
Carnifex in Tyrannocite with Deathspitters
2x Twin linked devourers
Carnifex in Tyrannocite with Deathspitters
2x Twin linked devourers
Mawloc
Living Artillery Node
3x Biovore
3x Warriors
Barbed Strangler
Exocrine
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm liking the list, but there isn't really much synapse. I would also really like to increase the unit of 15 gargoyles to 20, but I'm not sure what to cut besides the stinger salvo on the hive crone. could do it if I took off the egrubs on the tyrants, but that's probably a bad idea.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/05 04:49:28
2015/02/05 14:05:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Pertruabo wrote: quick question guys
I it possible to field a full army of genestealers?
Yeah, you'd have to either go Unbound or Manefactorium.
@Amphibious I would try and find the points for a Bastion or Aegis w/ Comms. Preferably the Bastion, I had a game with a Malanthrope without a Bastion against Tau, focus fired it down.
@jy2 I'll get a picture of my physical copy for you when I get chance, although I suspect there may be differences between the e-copy and physical book.
YMDC = nightmare
2015/02/05 15:31:25
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
@jy2 I'll get a picture of my physical copy for you when I get chance, although I suspect there may be differences between the e-copy and physical book.
Thanks!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/05 15:49:23
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