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2015/03/20 19:25:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
True... but this isn't a GW rule you can nitpick. This is what the TOs are writing. So it'll get changed to wounds or hullpoints at some point.
My only hope is that they meant gargantuan creatures - which is still stupid, but not as stupid.
Nope, they've confirmed it. No Gargants allowed anyways.
Its not a bonus for doing 3 hull points/wounds to an MC. It is just a bonus for killing an MC as I read it.
It is going to be a very challenging event for anyone that wants to play Tyranids. They've decided that they want Greentide, Necron Decurion, Centstar and Eldar to win. Mission #2 is so absurdly skewed in favor of deathstars, that I was trying to build a Skytyrant list, but honestly, it is a pretty lame deathstar compared to what other codexes have to offer. I feel like I might be able to build a list that can win mission #1 and #3 (except against centstar, Greentide, Decurion, or Eldar), but would lose #2 to basically everything. Or I could build a list that can win #2, and #3 (except against centstar, Greentide, Decurion, or Eldar), but would lose #1 to basically everything.
2015/03/20 19:29:08
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
True... but this isn't a GW rule you can nitpick. This is what the TOs are writing. So it'll get changed to wounds or hullpoints at some point.
My only hope is that they meant gargantuan creatures - which is still stupid, but not as stupid.
Nope, they've confirmed it. No Gargants allowed anyways.
... Wow.
Its not a bonus for doing 3 hull points/wounds to an MC. It is just a bonus for killing an MC as I read it.
Sure - still means that a Carnifex is 2 KP, a Brood is either 3 or 4 depending on how the calculate it.
It is going to be a very challenging event for anyone that wants to play Tyranids. They've decided that they want Greentide, Necron Decurion, Centstar and Eldar to win. Mission #2 is so absurdly skewed in favor of deathstars, that I was trying to build a Skytyrant list, but honestly, it is a pretty lame deathstar compared to what other codexes have to offer. I feel like I might be able to build a list that can win mission #1 and #3 (except against centstar, Greentide, Decurion, or Eldar), but would lose #2 to basically everything. Or I could build a list that can win #2, and #3 (except against centstar, Greentide, Decurion, or Eldar), but would lose #1 to basically everything.
Yeah. Basically "Bring orks or go home" is what this seems like. I could see Necrons doing well as well.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2015/03/20 21:25:32
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
True... but this isn't a GW rule you can nitpick. This is what the TOs are writing. So it'll get changed to wounds or hullpoints at some point.
My only hope is that they meant gargantuan creatures - which is still stupid, but not as stupid.
I think you're misreading it. It reads "1 Kill Point per... monstrous creature" if you follow the English grammar of a compound sentence. Also, if you clicked on the link, the tournament answered your second remark in the comment section. The tournament clarifies that they meant super heavies and "normal" MCs, NOT gargantuan.
2015/03/21 00:10:25
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
True... but this isn't a GW rule you can nitpick. This is what the TOs are writing. So it'll get changed to wounds or hullpoints at some point.
My only hope is that they meant gargantuan creatures - which is still stupid, but not as stupid.
I think you're misreading it. It reads "1 Kill Point per... monstrous creature" if you follow the English grammar of a compound sentence. Also, if you clicked on the link, the tournament answered your second remark in the comment section. The tournament clarifies that they meant super heavies and "normal" MCs, NOT gargantuan.
That is a dramatic Improvement. Mission #2 is still one of the weaker missions I've ever seen with 3 parts that all favor deathstars, but they stand by it under the logic because teams can somewhat control matchups its ok if they write missions that are crazy unbalanced.
2015/03/22 18:03:58
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Came in second by 1 point at a local tournament yesterday, losing to Necrons. It was my first game against the new book.
At the end of it I still had all four flyrants alive and well in addition to most of my other forces. He had two 15 man warrior blobs and immortals that Tyrants just cant kill, despite their overwhelming firepower.
My lictors and tyrants had all three annihilation barges destroyed by turn 3. I couldnt focus down both wraith units, 2 and 3 remained. In the end I lost by 1 Big Guns never tire point.
One of my buddies who plays Necron Decurion wanted to see a 5 flyrant list yesterday. We ran ATC mission #2. He ran the Wraith formation and the Destroyer formation. I managed to kill the wraiths for 1st blood, but then Spent the rest of the game trying for warlord (The Warlord was with 8 Immortals at the start). I manged to kill the immortals, but the warlord just switched over to a group of destroyers. Meanwhile, on turn #1, I lost 2 flyrants, on turn 2, I lost my Venoms, and all 3 lictors, and took a few wounds on a flyrant. Turn 3 I lost my bastion, my Mawloc, and my wounded flyrant. Turn 4 both of my remaining flyrants were taken down to one wound, but made their grounding test, and I lost 4 of my 6 Rippers. Turn 5, I lost my last 2 flyrants, and was only not tabled by keeping 2 rippers out of LOS.
Our kill totals were obscene.
I only killed 6 Wraiths, 2 Destroyers, 8 Immortals, and 3 Warriors netting me a total of 2 Kill points. He got 11 Kill points from me (would have been 17 if MC's still gave bonuses). He got max points except for 1st blood. I do not know how Tyranids will ever compete against certain decurion builds such as the T5 spam I faced. If I ran a hoard list I could have tied it all up, and waited for the game to end, but I just have no idea how to ever kill any sizable amount of it. I feel like add this to Tau as armies that invalidate the Tyranid Codex.
2015/03/22 20:25:52
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I'm going to a 'friendly' tournament up against what will be Adlance, Tau (FBSC), DE, Raptors, AM w/ Baneblade, Chaos, Blood Angels and want to give them a run for their money Have no idea how to improve it though. Missions would be one objective in each deployment zone and Relic (mandatory First Blood, StW, Linebreaker)
The Rending Claws were leftover but I have no idea how to spend the points..I've actually got 10 pts left as it is..
1250 is a tough points value because a true TAC list really doesn't exist for many armies. More likely than not, you will be lacking in one or more areas.
It typically is better to tailor your list to the mission and make it as close to TAC as possible while not being as mindful of any particular player, as even with a small tournament, you aren't guaranteed to draw him/her.
This is actually easier for Tyranids than most other armies. With Nids, you can null deploy quite reliably (which is spectacular for EW, and it sounds like that's what the missions are). All you need is a ton of spores/mucolids. I would want a minimum of 7/8 units to be sure that you're ok until your reserves come in, but really you just need to have a single unit alive at the end of turn 1. If you want to go the Comms relay route (recommended) then more like 9/10 would be better, as you still want a unit to be able to man it, otherwise you won't gain the benefit.
2015/03/23 06:22:28
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Well I went to the tournament and did ok. I went 2-1. I have to say a com's relay would have helped in one game. I did the rerolls to see and it would have helped amazingly.
The list worked amazing well. It hits hard and is very adaptable. The first game I had the worst luck on reserves roll that I have ever had. I didn't get 4 units in the 2nd turn 2 tyrants and two fex. Playing white scars this hurt. To make matters worse, I mishap on the first roll and get sucked in to the warp. I had two units come in every turn after; Even coming piecemeal I lasted tell turn 6. Over all I played a uphill game but was in it tell the last turn. I did underestimate hw hard it is to kill 5 spore units turn 1. Even with no cover for half of the units. I had only a 5+ or a 3+ cover save. As the table was the worst possible with no real cover except in the center of the table.
Even coming in piece by piece I left him with only 8 bikes and two fliers. It was a good game and loss.
Next two games things came in on average and I just overwhelmed both a sm salamander army and a AM army. I got 3rd place out 12 people.
Was fun and I learned a lot.
I will be dropping one Mawloc maybe two for a ADL with coms. and something else. Likely a malanthrope. The Mawlocs didn't do a thing but come in and miss and die in every game.
If I drop the second Mawloc I am not sure what to pic up. If I drop it I may go 3 biovores. It would give me a few points left to spend.. What you think? Are biovores better then one Mawloc?
2015/03/23 13:19:06
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I like Biovores, tasty Barrage lets me snipe characters. I'd always take it in Living Artillery though as I'm notorious for scattering way off.
Thanks luke for the input, I'l revise my list when I've got some time.
So here's an interesting question - what's the best way to beat Nids with Nids? I'm thinking going second, hug cover and then Vector Strike the Flyrants that come my way and dakka from behind?
YMDC = nightmare
2015/03/23 14:05:14
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
It seems like every time I play against Grey Knights it ends up as a Purge the Alien mission.
I hate 2+ saves. I have them more when I fire 48 shots at a Dreadknight and do 3 wounds on turn 1... then spend the rest of the game firing at least one MC at him every turn and he never takes another wound.
His Stormraven only lost 2 Hull Points to 36 devourers (didn't Jink) and died the following turn to a Warp Lance - it crashed onto the Dreadknight from hell and of course, that wound was saved as well.
One Terminator unit made 27 2+ saves in one turn - I needed him to fail 2 before his Libby started having to roll and he made them all.
I hate 2+ saves. With a passion. Against other armies I could get into CC and try my luck there - but against GK they'll just Force me out of there.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2015/03/23 15:14:45
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Once an enemy Libby made 27 saves (an then died, but he tanked the shooting of 3 Flyrants). But to be fair he had failed like the 75% of all his 3+ previous saves (the Libby was his only model with a 2+).
2015/03/23 15:29:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
No - I don't typically run one, and this was a league where I didn't know my opponent before I turned in a list.
I have two, just not a huge fan of the model. Plus, in non-KP games I get really good results from simple weight of fire. For some reason that doesn't carry over to KP games.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2015/03/23 16:45:53
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wilson wrote: I put this list together to with the intention to a. force target priority and b. be strong with maelstrom grabbing - i used it on Tuesday vs Deldar and Harlequin jet bike army ( Harlequin jet bikes are pretty pokey and durable!) and annihilated the dude by Turn 4. I'm looking to tweak it for a 1750 pt comp in the middle of April and wondered if anyone else had any experience ( PS i've finally fielded Sky Tyrant and it's awesome- at least for that one game!)
Just as an FYI comp is primary maelstrom with a secondary of the usual First strike, Warlord and line breaker. ( no eternal war mission for some reason.)
1750 2 sources - 1 CAD or equivalent and 1 allies/ formation. No CTA allies. LOW restricted to 400 pts max.
so on with the list;
Spoiler:
Leviathan Detatchment
Flyrant - Electroshock, Devourers x 2
Flyrant - Electroshock, Devourers x 2
Deathleaper
Since you know that you will be playing Maelstrom missions, I'd go with more ground scoring units. Drop 1 hive crone and swap out for 3x3 DS Rippers (or perhaps hormagants) and then add more gargoyles to your SkyTyrant formation. You want to force target prioritization? You need more units that can score objectives, not less.
shadowfinder wrote: I been talking to a guy in the area that's thinking about running a 1850 highlander tournament. I love the concept but I have yet to play it. Sounds like you get to see some fluffy list that are used creatively for some armies at lest.
It got me thinking about what to bring for my Tryanids. Honestly I know what I bring but I not sure if it would be all that competitive. Then again it could be very good. Since the hard counters that you normally see are not there as much either.
What do you guys think? Does Highlander bring a interesting challenge to list building for Tyranids?
Has any one played Highlander with Tyranids yet? How was it? What where your incite from doing so?
Honestly, I don't think Tyranids will fare very well in Highlander missions, at least not against the good armies. Yes, it definitely will be a challenge to build a great Highlander TAC list.
Iechine wrote: Came in second by 1 point at a local tournament yesterday, losing to Necrons. It was my first game against the new book.
At the end of it I still had all four flyrants alive and well in addition to most of my other forces. He had two 15 man warrior blobs and immortals that Tyrants just cant kill, despite their overwhelming firepower.
My lictors and tyrants had all three annihilation barges destroyed by turn 3. I couldnt focus down both wraith units, 2 and 3 remained. In the end I lost by 1 Big Guns never tire point.
Lack of AP makes putting them down hard.
Yeah, a 4+ followed by another 4+ is better than a 3+ save. A 3+ followed by a 4+ is equivalent to a 2+ save. But as Tyranids, we don't really have much choice. This is what I see we can do against Decurion Necrons:
1. Just massed firepower and focus on 1 unit at a time.
2. Massed mawlocs and hope that they hit. Mawlocs + lictors (in ruins going-to-ground) will actually be a good tactic against Necrons, as they lack methods of ignoring 2+ cover. Just make sure you place the objectives in the ruins with the lictors as well.
3. Assault nids. Skytyrant backed by malanthrope/venomthrope cover can actually be quite effective against standard Necron infantry as long as you can eliminate the wraiths beforehand. Again, watch out for those wraiths and reduce their numbers with massed firepower before assaulting.
tag8833 wrote: One of my buddies who plays Necron Decurion wanted to see a 5 flyrant list yesterday. We ran ATC mission #2. He ran the Wraith formation and the Destroyer formation. I managed to kill the wraiths for 1st blood, but then Spent the rest of the game trying for warlord (The Warlord was with 8 Immortals at the start). I manged to kill the immortals, but the warlord just switched over to a group of destroyers. Meanwhile, on turn #1, I lost 2 flyrants, on turn 2, I lost my Venoms, and all 3 lictors, and took a few wounds on a flyrant. Turn 3 I lost my bastion, my Mawloc, and my wounded flyrant. Turn 4 both of my remaining flyrants were taken down to one wound, but made their grounding test, and I lost 4 of my 6 Rippers. Turn 5, I lost my last 2 flyrants, and was only not tabled by keeping 2 rippers out of LOS.
Our kill totals were obscene.
I only killed 6 Wraiths, 2 Destroyers, 8 Immortals, and 3 Warriors netting me a total of 2 Kill points. He got 11 Kill points from me (would have been 17 if MC's still gave bonuses). He got max points except for 1st blood. I do not know how Tyranids will ever compete against certain decurion builds such as the T5 spam I faced. If I ran a hoard list I could have tied it all up, and waited for the game to end, but I just have no idea how to ever kill any sizable amount of it. I feel like add this to Tau as armies that invalidate the Tyranid Codex.
Ouch! Sounds harsh.
I need to get in a game against the new Necrons with my bugs.
We don't need to tweak it really. Massed devourer shooting will kill any non-2+ MC. Against 2+ MC's, well, I usually ignore those and kill the rest of the army. It just isn't very efficient to shoot at them, unless there isn't another better target.
Or you could run a dimachaeron or 3 in tyrannocyte spore(s). Those things make most enemy MC's run like mad away.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/23 16:47:23
I'm going to a 'friendly' tournament up against what will be Adlance, Tau (FBSC), DE, Raptors, AM w/ Baneblade, Chaos, Blood Angels and want to give them a run for their money Have no idea how to improve it though. Missions would be one objective in each deployment zone and Relic (mandatory First Blood, StW, Linebreaker)
The Rending Claws were leftover but I have no idea how to spend the points..I've actually got 10 pts left as it is..
Heavy Support Carnifex w/ 2x TL Devourers w/ BLW, Deathspitter Tyrannocyte = 225
Exocrine = 170
Really struggling on what I want to field..
List #1 with Leviathan+LAN is the better list, though I wouldn't necessarily call it a "friendly" list.
shadowfinder wrote: Well I went to the tournament and did ok. I went 2-1. I have to say a com's relay would have helped in one game. I did the rerolls to see and it would have helped amazingly.
The list worked amazing well. It hits hard and is very adaptable. The first game I had the worst luck on reserves roll that I have ever had. I didn't get 4 units in the 2nd turn 2 tyrants and two fex. Playing white scars this hurt. To make matters worse, I mishap on the first roll and get sucked in to the warp. I had two units come in every turn after; Even coming piecemeal I lasted tell turn 6. Over all I played a uphill game but was in it tell the last turn. I did underestimate hw hard it is to kill 5 spore units turn 1. Even with no cover for half of the units. I had only a 5+ or a 3+ cover save. As the table was the worst possible with no real cover except in the center of the table.
Even coming in piece by piece I left him with only 8 bikes and two fliers. It was a good game and loss.
Next two games things came in on average and I just overwhelmed both a sm salamander army and a AM army. I got 3rd place out 12 people.
Was fun and I learned a lot.
I will be dropping one Mawloc maybe two for a ADL with coms. and something else. Likely a malanthrope. The Mawlocs didn't do a thing but come in and miss and die in every game.
If I drop the second Mawloc I am not sure what to pic up. If I drop it I may go 3 biovores. It would give me a few points left to spend.. What you think? Are biovores better then one Mawloc?
Get some spore mines (or rippers) to man your ADL comms.
Biovores are a good substitute if you don't want to rely too much on mawlocs. Just make sure you have a source of Synapse in your backfield for them (or not if your main intent for them is to g-t-g behind the ADL).
Malanthrope isn't really necessary for a null deployment list unless you plan to have some backfield units reliant on Synapse, but it will help against most shooty armies (with the exception of Tau and mechdar) if you want to start your flyrants on the table.
Frozocrone wrote: I like Biovores, tasty Barrage lets me snipe characters. I'd always take it in Living Artillery though as I'm notorious for scattering way off.
Thanks luke for the input, I'l revise my list when I've got some time.
So here's an interesting question - what's the best way to beat Nids with Nids? I'm thinking going second, hug cover and then Vector Strike the Flyrants that come my way and dakka from behind?
Here are some tips against Nids:
1. If you run the malanthrope, go 2nd in objectives games. Better to let his flyrants move out of his malanthrope range only to shoot at your flyrants with 2+ cover than to move out of your malanthrope range only to shoot at his flyrants with 2+ cover.
2. Psychic Scream helps a lot against another Tyranid player.
3. As you've already mentioned, vector-strike is another viable tactic against enemy flyrants.
4. Movement blocking. Against a mainly ground Tyranid force, you can use your flyrants/FMC's to impede their progression if necessary just by swooping and placing your models in their movement path.
5. Of course, proper target prioritization goes a long ways.
rigeld2 wrote: It seems like every time I play against Grey Knights it ends up as a Purge the Alien mission.
I hate 2+ saves. I have them more when I fire 48 shots at a Dreadknight and do 3 wounds on turn 1... then spend the rest of the game firing at least one MC at him every turn and he never takes another wound.
His Stormraven only lost 2 Hull Points to 36 devourers (didn't Jink) and died the following turn to a Warp Lance - it crashed onto the Dreadknight from hell and of course, that wound was saved as well.
One Terminator unit made 27 2+ saves in one turn - I needed him to fail 2 before his Libby started having to roll and he made them all.
I hate 2+ saves. With a passion. Against other armies I could get into CC and try my luck there - but against GK they'll just Force me out of there.
Yeah, 2+ is pain-in-the-arse for us. I especially hate playing against Tau with massed riptides and broadsides, probably one of our worst matchups.
What I usually do is to kill the units that I can more efficiently kill. For example, between riptides and broadsides, I will go after the broadsides first because 1) they are just as deadly with their firepower and 2) I am wounding them on 2's as opposed to on 4's for the riptides. Thus, broadsides are easier for me to kill, not to mention that Warp Lance can usually 1-shot them.
Against dreadknights, I almost always ignore them initially and just go after the rest of the army. The only exception is when going up against the centurionstar (or paladinstar), which is much harder to kill than the dreadknight. In that case, the dreadknight will be the threat that is easier to kill (though not actually easy to kill).
So if you go after a "threat", then go after the threat that is easier to take out. Otherwise, just go after the troops.
jy2 wrote: Yeah, 2+ is pain-in-the-arse for us. I especially hate playing against Tau with massed riptides and broadsides, probably one of our worst matchups.
What I usually do is to kill the units that I can more efficiently kill. For example, between riptides and broadsides, I will go after the broadsides first because 1) they are just as deadly with their firepower and 2) I am wounding them on 2's as opposed to on 4's for the riptides. Thus, broadsides are easier for me to kill, not to mention that Warp Lance can usually 1-shot them.
Against dreadknights, I almost always ignore them initially and just go after the rest of the army. The only exception is when going up against the centurionstar (or paladinstar), which is much harder to kill than the dreadknight. In that case, the dreadknight will be the threat that is easier to kill (though not actually easy to kill).
So if you go after a "threat", then go after the threat that is easier to take out. Otherwise, just go after the troops.
That was my plan, but T1 I couldn't get in range of the troops because of the way he deployed, and since I had the DK down to one wound I figured I'd throw one TMC at it - he'd fail a save eventually, right?
-sigh-
Ah well.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2015/03/23 20:00:34
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
jy2 wrote: Yeah, a 4+ followed by another 4+ is better than a 3+ save. A 3+ followed by a 4+ is equivalent to a 2+ save. But as Tyranids, we don't really have much choice. This is what I see we can do against Decurion Necrons:
1. Just massed firepower and focus on 1 unit at a time.
2. Massed mawlocs and hope that they hit. Mawlocs + lictors (in ruins going-to-ground) will actually be a good tactic against Necrons, as they lack methods of ignoring 2+ cover. Just make sure you place the objectives in the ruins with the lictors as well.
3. Assault nids. Skytyrant backed by malanthrope/venomthrope cover can actually be quite effective against standard Necron infantry as long as you can eliminate the wraiths beforehand. Again, watch out for those wraiths and reduce their numbers with massed firepower before assaulting.
Decurion can shrug off mass firepower. That is the key to the effectiveness. 6 Destroyers cost the same as a Flyrant (with standard gear).
To kill a unit of 6 Destroyers in a Decurion it will take a Flyrant 10.13 turns of shooting assuming no Res Orb, and no Overlord buffing them. Meanwhile, for 6 Destroyers to kill a Jinking flyrant, it will take 4.36 turns of shooting. Contrast that to a Skyfire burstide (HBC, TL-Fusion, ECPA, SI, VT). It costs 15 points more than a standard flyrant. It will take a flyrant only 8.43 turns of shooting to kill it, and It will take the burstide 3.49 turns of shooting to kill a jinking flyrant. Compared to Decurion Destroyers, a Riptide w/ FNP is a freaking glass cannon.
To put it another way, if you have 5 Flyrants, and they have 18 destroyers in a decurion. You will need the game to go on to turn 7, and you will need them to roll particularly poorly for you to kill them.
Mawlocs can help a bit, but won't get too far in a 5 turn game. Mawlocs do 1/2 of the damage (or less) against destroyers as they do against Centurions, and unlike centstar, Destroyers have no reason to ever group up unless you manage to assault them.
Assaulting can get you there. As you said, you've got to kill any Wraiths. But you still are going to put much of a dent in decurion. There just aren't enough game turns. Your best bet is to just tarpit it and outscore it, but you still lose on kill points, and it means running a list that can't compete with other armies.
2015/03/24 13:47:01
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
jy2 wrote: Yeah, a 4+ followed by another 4+ is better than a 3+ save. A 3+ followed by a 4+ is equivalent to a 2+ save. But as Tyranids, we don't really have much choice. This is what I see we can do against Decurion Necrons:
1. Just massed firepower and focus on 1 unit at a time.
2. Massed mawlocs and hope that they hit. Mawlocs + lictors (in ruins going-to-ground) will actually be a good tactic against Necrons, as they lack methods of ignoring 2+ cover. Just make sure you place the objectives in the ruins with the lictors as well.
3. Assault nids. Skytyrant backed by malanthrope/venomthrope cover can actually be quite effective against standard Necron infantry as long as you can eliminate the wraiths beforehand. Again, watch out for those wraiths and reduce their numbers with massed firepower before assaulting.
Decurion can shrug off mass firepower. That is the key to the effectiveness. 6 Destroyers cost the same as a Flyrant (with standard gear).
To kill a unit of 6 Destroyers in a Decurion it will take a Flyrant 10.13 turns of shooting assuming no Res Orb, and no Overlord buffing them. Meanwhile, for 6 Destroyers to kill a Jinking flyrant, it will take 4.36 turns of shooting. Contrast that to a Skyfire burstide (HBC, TL-Fusion, ECPA, SI, VT). It costs 15 points more than a standard flyrant. It will take a flyrant only 8.43 turns of shooting to kill it, and It will take the burstide 3.49 turns of shooting to kill a jinking flyrant. Compared to Decurion Destroyers, a Riptide w/ FNP is a freaking glass cannon.
To put it another way, if you have 5 Flyrants, and they have 18 destroyers in a decurion. You will need the game to go on to turn 7, and you will need them to roll particularly poorly for you to kill them.
Mawlocs can help a bit, but won't get too far in a 5 turn game. Mawlocs do 1/2 of the damage (or less) against destroyers as they do against Centurions, and unlike centstar, Destroyers have no reason to ever group up unless you manage to assault them.
Assaulting can get you there. As you said, you've got to kill any Wraiths. But you still are going to put much of a dent in decurion. There just aren't enough game turns. Your best bet is to just tarpit it and outscore it, but you still lose on kill points, and it means running a list that can't compete with other armies.
Well, then, time to break out my Scythed Hierodule flanked by Swarmlord and 2 dimachaerons in spores then.
Oh, and while I'm at it, might as well ally in one of those D-thirsters.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/24 14:58:36
jy2 wrote: Well, then, time to break out my Scythed Hierodule flanked by Swarmlord and 2 dimachaerons in spores then.
Oh, and while I'm at it, might as well ally in one of those D-thirsters.
Demons definitely have the answers available thanks invuls, effective fast assault units, and superior psychic powers. Either of our heirodules can kill Destroyers if they can stay alive. Without a cover save, 6 Destoyers do 3.26 wounds to a heirodule a turn.
Against a Dima coming out of a pod we are talking 8.89 Cover saves for each group of 6 Destroyers. Same for Swarmlord.
My 1st round of LVO was against destoyers in a Decurion. Barbie took them out eventually. Thankfully It was only 9 destroyers and no wraiths.
2015/03/24 18:24:15
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
So with some up dating and playing with points. I think I have come up with my list to play this year in the ITC. I played a tournament with this already without the ADL and with Mawlocs.
I decided to drop them for something that will be more reliable, I hope. Biovores I think are going to be needed vs. the new Necrons. I do gain more kill point in kill points games but I think the trade off is being able to target 3 units if needed. Also if the miss they make more spores that can then attack or block paths.
Spoiler:
+++ New Roster (1850pts) +++
++ Fortifications and Stronghold Assault (2013) (Fortification Detachment) (70pts) ++
I have a 1500 ITC tournament coming up. As I am torn between taking Tyranids or Necrons there, I've decided that perhaps, I can bring both. This is what I am thinking of taking:
jy2 wrote: I have a 1500 ITC tournament coming up. As I am torn between taking Tyranids or Necrons there, I've decided that perhaps, I can bring both. This is what I am thinking of taking:
jy2 wrote: I have a 1500 ITC tournament coming up. As I am torn between taking Tyranids or Necrons there, I've decided that perhaps, I can bring both. This is what I am thinking of taking:
Have no idea how to improve it though. Missions would be one objective in each deployment zone and Relic (mandatory First Blood, StW, Linebreaker) 
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
Will this be enough to push Decurians off of objectives? 