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Any big point unit that doesn't fly or swoop can be one shotted by the Wraithknight. That's why I said it's not a big deal - welcome to the club.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Any big point unit that doesn't fly or swoop can be one shotted by the Wraithknight. That's why I said it's not a big deal - welcome to the club.

Where are you getting this rumor from? I personally don't think Skyfire D weapons will be in a normal codex for a long time. And flyers exist as a counter to D weapons that balances the game (somewhat). I don't expect that to be discarded.

It's the UKTC (UK Team Championships) in a fortnights time and I'm just finalising my list for submission tomorrow (Sunday 21st) I'm between these two versions of it at the moment, what do you guys think? Any other suggestions?

Missions are Eternal War, and it's 1850 points

List A



List B

How do you get 4 hive tyrants, i get the one in the formation but the third in the regular confuses me

 Alaxandir wrote:
How do you get 4 hive tyrants, i get the one in the formation but the third in the regular confuses me

He is most likely using the Tyranid Hive Fleet detachment from shield of ball: Leviathan.

As to the list themselves, (admitting that I don't know the missions) I would cut down on the number of Rippers due to their lack of ObSec. So o the two I prefer the list with Zoeys. But, I think an ever better list could come from dropping a Zoey and Venom for a Malanthrope if FW is allowed.

EDIT: Also is the UKTC a similar format to the ETC? I'm a big fan of the team tournament idea.

 jifel wrote:

 Alaxandir wrote:
How do you get 4 hive tyrants, i get the one in the formation but the third in the regular confuses me

He is most likely using the Tyranid Hive Fleet detachment from shield of ball: Leviathan.

As to the list themselves, (admitting that I don't know the missions) I would cut down on the number of Rippers due to their lack of ObSec. So o the two I prefer the list with Zoeys. But, I think an ever better list could come from dropping a Zoey and Venom for a Malanthrope if FW is allowed.

EDIT: Also is the UKTC a similar format to the ETC? I'm a big fan of the team tournament idea.

Missions are Eternal War, as it says in the post

I think I prefer the Zoey one as well, the only reason I've put him in is because I'm the only one our team with any sort of Psychic presence, bar a single Farseer Eldar list.

Yes similar format to the ETC.

Whoops! Yeah mission is right there... Of the two I do like Zoeys better. Definitely give us an update on how it goes for you!

Eldercaveman wrote:
It's the UKTC (UK Team Championships) in a fortnights time and I'm just finalising my list for submission tomorrow (Sunday 21st) I'm between these two versions of it at the moment, what do you guys think? Any other suggestions?

Missions are Eternal War, and it's 1850 points

List A

Spoiler:

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Venomthrope
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
Skyblight
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Harpy
Harpy
Hive crone
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles

This list leaves me 15 points to spare.

List B

Spoiler:

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike

Skyblight
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Harpy
Harpy
Hive crone
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles

I've got 2 questions for you. Do you have more gargoyles? Do you own any lictors?

I really don't like non-ObSec rippers. I feel that they can potentially hurt your army more than help it. One of the main functions of the rippers is to tarpit lesser units, especially while on an objective to protect it from getting shot off the objective. However, being non-ObSec, now it can't even really do that. Imagine assaulting or being assaulted by a 5-man tactical squad. Now the marine squad is protected from being shot at by your army and because they are ObSec, they will be claiming the objective, not the rippers. So in a Leviathan formation, I suggest you run no more than the minimum 3 units. Running more doesn't really help all that much IMO.

Instead, I think there are 2 better options:

1. Run more gargoyles. It doesn't hurt to shore up your ObSec units, especially ones that you can recycle.

2. Run lictors. Put objectives in ruins and now you've got lictors with 2+ go-to-ground cover. Also, they can be used to threaten smaller, MSU scoring units that try to take the objective over them. They are also great if you choose to null-deploy your army. Overall, I prefer lictors over zoans due to the flexibility they provide to the army.

 jy2 wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
It's the UKTC (UK Team Championships) in a fortnights time and I'm just finalising my list for submission tomorrow (Sunday 21st) I'm between these two versions of it at the moment, what do you guys think? Any other suggestions?

Missions are Eternal War, and it's 1850 points

List A

Spoiler:

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Venomthrope
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
Skyblight
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Harpy
Harpy
Hive crone
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles

This list leaves me 15 points to spare.

List B

Spoiler:

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike

Skyblight
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Harpy
Harpy
Hive crone
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles

I've got 2 questions for you. Do you have more gargoyles? Do you own any lictors?

I really don't like non-ObSec rippers. I feel that they can potentially hurt your army more than help it. One of the main functions of the rippers is to tarpit lesser units, especially while on an objective to protect it from getting shot off the objective. However, being non-ObSec, now it can't even really do that. Imagine assaulting or being assaulted by a 5-man tactical squad. Now the marine squad is protected from being shot at by your army and because they are ObSec, they will be claiming the objective, not the rippers. So in a Leviathan formation, I suggest you run no more than the minimum 3 units. Running more doesn't really help all that much IMO.

Instead, I think there are 2 better options:

1. Run more gargoyles. It doesn't hurt to shore up your ObSec units, especially ones that you can recycle.

2. Run lictors. Put objectives in ruins and now you've got lictors with 2+ go-to-ground cover. Also, they can be used to threaten smaller, MSU scoring units that try to take the objective over them. They are also great if you choose to null-deploy your army. Overall, I prefer lictors over zoans due to the flexibility they provide to the army.

So would you suggest a direct trade off of the two Zoans for two Lictors?

I don't have anymore Gargoyles.

It's Tau, if they don't get Skyfire D I'm sure GW will give them a bunch of other ridiculous stuff so they don't need it anyway

Don't be surprised if they get it.

Eldercaveman wrote:

So would you suggest a direct trade off of the two Zoans for two Lictors?

Yes, that would be my preference.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Don't be surprised if they get it.

Again, what's the source on this?

A friend who has a good track record with rumors.

I'm a new tyranid player, I have the following models in my collection.

3 Warriors
2 Venom
1 Zoan
6 Rippers
1 Carni
40 Horm
40 Term
1 Tervigon
10 Gargoyle

My local meta is IG and SM, with a lot of vehicles and frankly I get murdered.

What can I buy to cost effectively increase my chances of winning these games.
We usually play 1850 pts, which I cant really reach without expensive upgrades on my stuff.

Many, many Flyrants with Devourers.

Codex Flyrant

 Alaxandir wrote:
I'm a new tyranid player, I have the following models in my collection.

3 Warriors
2 Venom
1 Zoan
6 Rippers
1 Carni
40 Horm
40 Term
1 Tervigon
10 Gargoyle

My local meta is IG and SM, with a lot of vehicles and frankly I get murdered.

What can I buy to cost effectively increase my chances of winning these games.
We usually play 1850 pts, which I cant really reach without expensive upgrades on my stuff.

The flyrant is a give-me being best unit in the dex. Maximizing what you have? More gargoyles, more Gants (both types), pair of pods for the Fex and the Warriors, another Zoanthrope to travel up field with the hormie gants (makes a good sitter as it can run every turn and not lose shooting). What does your normal list look like?

.

Best Nids at Texas Wargamescon went to a Tyranid list based on Endless Swarm. One of my buddies who plays Tau lost to him. The basic list looked like this:

Blew me away that he beat Tau in the kill points mission. (Tau won kill points like 16-4, but Tyranids won Maelstrom and tertiary).

The Changes to the ITC missions definitely create a niche for lists like this. Still an extreme RPS list, but congrats to him. I believe he finished 4-1. I didn't see a single other Tyranid player in the GT, but I may have missed one or two. I played nids in the Team event, and Orks in the Narrative.

Questions worth asking: How on earth did he not get penalized for slow play (intentional or not) with that many models every single game?

Good for him pulling best bugs but if he did it by stopping games turn 3 to pull away on objectives then I'd be sad.

 Iechine wrote:
Questions worth asking: How on earth did he not get penalized for slow play (intentional or not) with that many models every single game?

Good for him pulling best bugs but if he did it by stopping games turn 3 to pull away on objectives then I'd be sad.

I've run tourney lists with model counts that high before. It can definitely be done. Do your thinking during your opponent's turn. Ask your opponent to help you pile in. Run and move at the same time.

tag8833 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Questions worth asking: How on earth did he not get penalized for slow play (intentional or not) with that many models every single game?

Good for him pulling best bugs but if he did it by stopping games turn 3 to pull away on objectives then I'd be sad.

I've run tourney lists with model counts that high before. It can definitely be done. Do your thinking during your opponent's turn. Ask your opponent to help you pile in. Run and move at the same time.

And ask if you can Conga/Leapfrog units. I run nids like that at events

barnowl wrote:

 Alaxandir wrote:
snip

The flyrant is a give-me being best unit in the dex. Maximizing what you have? More gargoyles, more Gants (both types), pair of pods for the Fex and the Warriors, another Zoanthrope to travel up field with the hormie gants (makes a good sitter as it can run every turn and not lose shooting). What does your normal list look like?

My usual list looks like this
Tervigon
--Miasma Cannon, ES Grub
Carnifex
--H Venom Cannon
Gargoyle (10)
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Warrior (3)
--Deathspitter, flesh hooks, venomcannon, rending claws(1)
Termagaunt (30)
--Devourer (6)
Hormagaunt (15)
--AG
Hormagaunt (15)
--TS
Rippers (6)
--DS, Spinefists
Biovore(1) (Proxied)

1250 pt list

tag8833 wrote:
Best Nids at Texas Wargamescon went to a Tyranid list based on Endless Swarm. One of my buddies who plays Tau lost to him. The basic list looked like this:

Spoiler:

Tyranid CAD:
Swarmlord

Malanthrope
Malanthrope

30 TGants
Tervigon

Dimacharon

Trygon

Endless Swarm:
20 HGants (TS)
20 HGants (TS)
20 HGants (TS)
10 TGants
10 TGants
10 TGants

Blew me away that he beat Tau in the kill points mission. (Tau won kill points like 16-4, but Tyranids won Maelstrom and tertiary).

The Changes to the ITC missions definitely create a niche for lists like this. Still an extreme RPS list, but congrats to him. I believe he finished 4-1. I didn't see a single other Tyranid player in the GT, but I may have missed one or two. I played nids in the Team event, and Orks in the Narrative.

It reminds me of the old scythe gaunt lists from 3ed era. If I had the back and stamina for it I'd love to play such a list at events (still might do it anyway and just get a massage after day 1 lol). Kudos for him taking it and winning at an event like this -- with no flyrants. Bigger feat then lictorshame to me.

Also with some sluething it seems he was the best general at raildhead rumble earlier in the year (with Dark Eldar) so doubt its a list anyone can just pick up and win with. And agree new ITC missions help this out a lot -- that Tau player would have won with the old KP missions pretty handily.

In general are the gaunts produced by mommy objsec if mom is also objsec? I know most events have ruled the summoned demons are not objsec but part of the detachment for warlord traits etc.

 NightWrench wrote:
In general are the gaunts produced by mommy objsec if mom is also objsec? I know most events have ruled the summoned demons are not objsec but part of the detachment for warlord traits etc.

ITC and NoVa rules they do not count as obsec via CAD. That is RaW in my opinion, even if it makes the whole 'counts as troops' thing meaningless. Sucks but the type of thing that happens in a ruleset change. Also to be clear they are still part of the army (so would benefit from warlord traits where applicable) but are not part of the detachment (which is not normally possible at army creation but nothing stops this once the game starts).

tag8833 wrote:
Best Nids at Texas Wargamescon went to a Tyranid list based on Endless Swarm. One of my buddies who plays Tau lost to him. The basic list looked like this:

Spoiler:

Tyranid CAD:
Swarmlord

Malanthrope
Malanthrope

30 TGants
Tervigon

Dimacharon

Trygon

Endless Swarm:
20 HGants (TS)
20 HGants (TS)
20 HGants (TS)
10 TGants
10 TGants
10 TGants

Blew me away that he beat Tau in the kill points mission. (Tau won kill points like 16-4, but Tyranids won Maelstrom and tertiary).

The Changes to the ITC missions definitely create a niche for lists like this. Still an extreme RPS list, but congrats to him. I believe he finished 4-1. I didn't see a single other Tyranid player in the GT, but I may have missed one or two. I played nids in the Team event, and Orks in the Narrative.

I've always liked the Endless Swarm and depending on the missions, they can do very well. It is surprising to see him do so well with so little mobility however, but this type of list is potentially very good in Maelstrom objectives against all but the most extreme ObSec armies.

 Iechine wrote:
Questions worth asking: How on earth did he not get penalized for slow play (intentional or not) with that many models every single game?

Good for him pulling best bugs but if he did it by stopping games turn 3 to pull away on objectives then I'd be sad.

There are a number of ways to increase your speed. For me, when I run a "hordish" army, I start doing things in my opponent's turn. Like when he is deploying, I start deploying as well. I tell him I am not deployed yet, just "putting my models on the table", but after he deploys, rarely do I change my deployment on my turn. Also, sometimes near the end of my opponents turn, I start my Movement phase as long as it won't affect anything on his turn and you don't have to take IB tests (of course, always get permission from your opponent before doing so).

Then when we are rolling dice, always offer to help or ask your opponent for help with pulling out hits (or misses) for events that use a lot of dice.

There are a lot of these tips to make gameplay go faster, especially for large model-count armies.

 Alaxandir wrote:

barnowl wrote:

 Alaxandir wrote:
snip

The flyrant is a give-me being best unit in the dex. Maximizing what you have? More gargoyles, more Gants (both types), pair of pods for the Fex and the Warriors, another Zoanthrope to travel up field with the hormie gants (makes a good sitter as it can run every turn and not lose shooting). What does your normal list look like?

My usual list looks like this
Tervigon
--Miasma Cannon, ES Grub
Carnifex
--H Venom Cannon
Gargoyle (10)
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Warrior (3)
--Deathspitter, flesh hooks, venomcannon, rending claws(1)
Termagaunt (30)
--Devourer (6)
Hormagaunt (15)
--AG
Hormagaunt (15)
--TS
Rippers (6)
--DS, Spinefists
Biovore(1) (Proxied)

1250 pt list

Like the other people say, get or proxy a dakka flyrant in your games (flyrant w/2 devourers). Ideally, you'd want to run 2 at 1250-1500-pts. They are just that good.

With regards to your list, split up the rippers into 2x3 deepstriking units. Use them to grab objectives and to tarpit weaker enemy units.

tag8833 wrote:
Best Nids at Texas Wargamescon went to a Tyranid list based on Endless Swarm. One of my buddies who plays Tau lost to him. The basic list looked like this:

Spoiler:

Tyranid CAD:
Swarmlord

Malanthrope
Malanthrope

30 TGants
Tervigon

Dimacharon

Trygon

Endless Swarm:
20 HGants (TS)
20 HGants (TS)
20 HGants (TS)
10 TGants
10 TGants
10 TGants

Blew me away that he beat Tau in the kill points mission. (Tau won kill points like 16-4, but Tyranids won Maelstrom and tertiary).

The Changes to the ITC missions definitely create a niche for lists like this. Still an extreme RPS list, but congrats to him. I believe he finished 4-1. I didn't see a single other Tyranid player in the GT, but I may have missed one or two. I played nids in the Team event, and Orks in the Narrative.

I'm impressed this guy did so well! I've maintained for a long time that I think Endless Swarm would work in a Maelstrom-heavy environment, but unfortunately that format isn't particularly big over here so I haven't had the opportunity to try it... That said, I'm also fairly stunned that it runs a Swarmie and Dima over say, 2x Flyrants! I've also tended to run with more termagaunts than Hormas, but perhaps this is a better idea to put the pressure on.

Hormagaunts are excellent. People favor rippers because they are cheaper and don't require babysitting in a highly mobile Flyrant list. Glad to see Swarmy on the table winning some games. I like to load my list up with Hormagaunts whenever I put Swarmlord in my list for fun.