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2015/09/11 15:44:09
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Does anyone find hive guards are still usefull? Last tourney my 3x1 hive guards took out 2 necron barges 1 flying croissant and some decurion warriors with +5 due to str 8 weapon, soak up'ed a lot shots. Next game was 3 rhino 1 dreadnaught and few marines.
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2015/09/12 16:14:37
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
I'm just starting to start practicing for Da Boys (which is Higlander this year).
That being said, as a Nid player I've been trying to make a list that is competitive enough to get Top Nids player. Haha.
Hive Guard seem like a pretty decent choice out of the rest of my choices. Highlander is so rough for Nids. I'll be letting you guys know how my Highlander list pans out as I get more practice games in. Deathleaper as my Warlord is great for denying that Secondary though. He even got a 7" charge off for first blood on Turn2! XD
2015/09/12 18:12:32
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
I am playing a tournament in a month and half. The rules are 1500 points, Maelstrom of War-missions, no supplements, no Forge World and no allies what so ever. That means maximum two Hive Tyrants and no formations. Of course this is kind of "unfair" for some races, including Tyranids, but what is 40k with balance?!
So far I have come up with this. The list is at 1460 points. I am pretty satisfied with this list except for the lack of synapse. If my Hive Tyrants gets killed I will lose control of the rest of my army. Other than that I have pretty good survivability with five FMCs.
I am also considering a second Venomthrope for the cost of a Lictor and potentionally important Maelstrom points, as most well done armies can remove at least two Hive Tyrants turn one if the Venomthrope dies in the early shots.
Callylove wrote: I am playing a tournament in a month and half. The rules are 1500 points, Maelstrom of War-missions, no supplements, no Forge World and no allies what so ever. That means maximum two Hive Tyrants and no formations. Of course this is kind of "unfair" for some races, including Tyranids, but what is 40k without balance?!
So far I have come up with this. The list is at 1460 points. I am pretty satisfied with this list except for the lack of synapse. If my Hive Tyrants gets killed I will lose control of the rest of my army. Other than that I have pretty good survivability with five FMCs.
I am also considering a second Venomthrope for the cost of a Lictor and potentionally important Maelstrom points, as most well done armies can remove at least two Hive Tyrants turn one if the Venomthrope dies in the early shots.
It is hard to do one CAD for bugs, but thats reasonably solid. I would drop one crone for another Mawloc and probably take two Venoms. (Anyone whos ever gone second VS a Tau broadside list knows why)
Automatically Appended Next Post: So Im still theory crafting my all CC army, heres where they sit ATM:
Typically, deploy split. Gargoyles are mainly there for bubble wrap and to finesse a first turn charge to eat overwatch if anyone comes to close. Shrikes are murderous in close combat of course, but unless they get to initiate their charge from 2+ cover via Venoms then overwatch can actually be awfully effective against them. Tyrants will have to do the heavy lifting against flamer heavy armies like Salamanders and the Shrikes will have to charge second.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/13 11:15:35
I won this last year with Tyranids. Its was a blast. You get food included and other goodies.
As for single Cad list I do it all the time. It makes you get away from the crutch of 3-5 flyrants.
In the list above I would drop the venom you lose control of it anyways.
Or drop a lector and Get a ADL for a 2+ no mater the terrain.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was hoping a couple of you can lookat a few list I have done in the army section. I would post here but it is a big post.
Iechine wrote: Jim said he probably would only do summaries for NOVA. I was going to do them but left my battery for Day 1. : /
Correct. I don't plan on doing full batreps, mainly because I didn't take many pictures. Instead I will most likely just be doing summaries of my NOVA matches when I get back from vaca.
tryke wrote: Does anyone find hive guards are still usefull? Last tourney my 3x1 hive guards took out 2 necron barges 1 flying croissant and some decurion warriors with +5 due to str 8 weapon, soak up'ed a lot shots. Next game was 3 rhino 1 dreadnaught and few marines.
While I love the models, I haven't really used mine for some time. Ever since Zoanthropes got their new plastic kits I've fallen in love with broods of 3 for my tank-popping elites. Warp Blast may be a pain to get off, but Zoeys have a better chance of actually hitting things and they offer other utility functions beyond their ranged attacks.
That said, I haven't tried them with the Tyrannocytes yet. The biggest problem I have had with them (outside of their horrid accuracy) is that they tend to get shot up and slaughtered before they can get into range due to their fell reputation from 5th edition.
2015/09/17 18:19:25
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Thanks to a few comments here and their, plus play testing. I have decided to go with the List below.
The tournament and Mission are found here. www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php
Play testing the mission have shown that you need to play attention to the mission or you can lose easy.
The list should give me all the Fire Power I will need. As well as giving me options for deployment.
I had list with the Tox and Haus. in it and it did well. But They didn't help in two games really that a dakka fex couldn't do. I dislike mawloc's but having one that can go after death stars or odd objectives will be help full.
So please take a comment and give me your thoughts on the list. I have already turned the list in so no changes can be made, Innless I messed up the formatting and they have me redo it. So please give comments.
shadowfinder wrote: Thanks to a few comments here and their, plus play testing. I have decided to go with the List below.
The tournament and Mission are found here. www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php
Play testing the mission have shown that you need to play attention to the mission or you can lose easy.
The list should give me all the Fire Power I will need. As well as giving me options for deployment.
I had list with the Tox and Haus. in it and it did well. But They didn't help in two games really that a dakka fex couldn't do. I dislike mawloc's but having one that can go after death stars or odd objectives will be help full.
So please take a comment and give me your thoughts on the list. I have already turned the list in so no changes can be made, Innless I messed up the formatting and they have me redo it. So please give comments.
Iechine wrote: I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there is no comparing a Flyrant with Devourers to Tyranid Prime.
I have to agree.
God I hate trolls.
Ask for a honest thought and get a response like that.
Take it easy on the new guy. He's just trying to help....I think? Just because a newer player offers up bad advice doesn't mean he is intentionally trolling. It could just be due to youthful exuberance and inexperience.
whirlwindstruggle wrote: I would substitute out the Hive Tyrants for Tyranid Primes personally, they are cheaper and just about as good as the flyrants in my experience.
Other than that, looks good!
Comparing a Tyranid Prime to a flyrant is like comparing a beat up, old Pinto to a Porshe. You may think the Pinto is good because it is serviceable in getting you from point A to point B, but wait til you drive the Porshe. You just won't look at the Pinto the same way anymore.
Or are you thinking about Trygon Primes? In which case the list would be illegal.
In any case, Tyranid Prime = bad. Flyrant = good.
shadowfinder wrote: Thanks to a few comments here and their, plus play testing. I have decided to go with the List below.
The tournament and Mission are found here. www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php
Play testing the mission have shown that you need to play attention to the mission or you can lose easy.
The list should give me all the Fire Power I will need. As well as giving me options for deployment.
I had list with the Tox and Haus. in it and it did well. But They didn't help in two games really that a dakka fex couldn't do. I dislike mawloc's but having one that can go after death stars or odd objectives will be help full.
So please take a comment and give me your thoughts on the list. I have already turned the list in so no changes can be made, Innless I messed up the formatting and they have me redo it. So please give comments.
Hive Tyrant (230pts) [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops (15pts) +
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
+ Heavy Support (140pts) +
Mawloc (140pts)
A couple of questions.
1. Why no malanthrope? Is it because FW is not allowed?
2. Why the single lictor? Is it for Linebreaker purposes? Because a single lictor by itself isn't going to do much. You might want to consider 2x1 venomthropes instead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 23:46:02
You can't actually compare any other unit in the codex to a flyrant, well accept maybe a mucloid....but they are the only 2 competitive units for top level competitive games anymore. (maybe lictors and mawlocs but not really anymore) in fringe events.
Its sad really because so many of the units try, or are close to not sucking and they all have a lot of character and look so cool!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/22 02:58:11
2015/09/22 04:19:54
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Hive Tyrant (230pts) [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops (15pts) +
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
+ Heavy Support (140pts) +
Mawloc (140pts)
A couple of questions.
1. Why no malanthrope? Is it because FW is not allowed?
2. Why the single lictor? Is it for Linebreaker purposes? Because a single lictor by itself isn't going to do much. You might want to consider 2x1 venomthropes instead.
Forge World is not allowed. Just what's in the codex or supplements. Also the other army's are allowed only their codex as well. No allies allowed. A cad must be taken and up to 3 detachment with one having to be cad. I hope that clear. I been up way to long today.
The single lector is to play to one of the missions and also to have a Line Breaker unit that I can hide real easy. I could do rippers but they sometime scatter. Also in one of the missions you gain primary points for each FoC you kill off. I wanted to have more then just the Venomthrope in the list. The lictor allows me to force my adversary to go out of his way to kill it. Giving me control on where he goes. Kind of a board control-ish thing.
This tournament has been going on for 5 years in the local area. It unique format is that you never fight the same army twice in the tournament. Only one army for each codex. Last year was 16 armies. 16 Different races no repeats.This year they are shooting for two full 16 brackets. With next year becoming a two day event. I won last year with Tyranids trying to do a repeat this year.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/22 04:20:46
2015/09/22 05:16:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Iechine wrote: 3 Hive guard means only 3 shots hit, its just not worth it. Those points get you so much further with other options.
Which sucks, cause I think they look cool. They are great models.
Well for me that "3 hits" enough to have 2+ to glance a AV11 vehicle. If its a transport I have a good target for my hive tryants instead of using my most versatile unit for a rhino/Transpo.
Decurion is also a thing in our local community, I tried devil gaunts 100+ pts but i manage to kill 2 out of 15, and shoot my hive tyrant 250+pts to decurion warriors to fend them off from that objective but sadly i killed only 3 out of 10, my 2 HG 1 already dead 100 pts killed also 3 due to AP4 and double STR vs T value they only have 5+.
Also use hive guards from ravenwing bikers that has rerollable 2+ cover saves with FnP, so they use normal power armor 3+ with FnP.
I also instakill some JSJ crisis suits due to ignore LOS and some path finders hinding in the ruins.
Yes, they misses and it sucks like every other typical tyranid BS3 units and any other BS3 in the units the game.
I'm just stating my experience from a typical math hammer. So for me they still viable and plays a very important role in my ground force besides from may 3 flyrants and a crone.
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2015/09/22 08:31:02
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Hive guards give you something that no other unit in the army can. The combination of high strength + ignore cover. Beside the flyrant the hive guards are still the unit with the highest reliability rate. You know that it will do well on what it is supposed to be doing. No other unit can say so in the tyranid book. Str 8 at 24" is no scoff either, with all the str 6 brainleeches out there AV 12 vehicles have become too tough to crack. But the option to blatantly remove cover save is the big winner for me. It can just give you answers to things you don't normally have, like AV12 tanks, skimmers of all kinds, EXCELLENT against Ork bikes, perfect for killing other tyranids (oh the irony). Many my hive guards have looked at the solo autarch with the mantle of the laughing god and taught the bastard what laughing really is. Finally their Toughness 6 and 4+ save make them all but immortal against small arms fire of any kind, and if the enemy is shooting krak missiles at them and not at your T4 stuff then you are doing it correct.
the only actualy problem I find with Hive guards is that they compete in the same slots with all the supporting elements of the army (venomthropes, zoanthropes, lictors). 2 shots and BS 3 is also not perfect, but then again they got 10 pts cheaper since the last codex so there's that. Would I prefer them with 3 shots or 3 wounds each? Heck yes. Would I want them to also have a skyfire shooting mode? Bloody sure. But I still think they are a pretty solid deal for what they do. Reliability is quite a matter for Tyranids. The Hive guards provide it.
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2015/09/22 11:27:21
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
I dont understand how you factor them as ' the unit with the highest reliability rate'.
AV12 has never been an issue, nor have skimmers, thats what electroshock grubs/devourers are for. Meanwhile, 1 Hive guard firing has only a 25% chance of glancing AV12, 3 Hive guard giving you 1.5 glances/pens. Really not impressive at all for a 165pt unit vs a Wave Serpent.
I want them to be good, they are simply mediocre at what they do and I'd rather fill those points with something more effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Take a Crone instead, its cheaper, far more mobile, harder to kill, its Vector strike will have a 50% chance of an AP2 glance or pen, then its flamer can have a 50% chance of getting through (the likely) rear armor 10, and both ignore cover.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/22 11:33:19
Iechine wrote: I dont understand how you factor them as ' the unit with the highest reliability rate'.
AV12 has never been an issue, nor have skimmers, thats what electroshock grubs/devourers are for. Meanwhile, 1 Hive guard firing has only a 25% chance of glancing AV12, 3 Hive guard giving you 1.5 glances/pens. Really not impressive at all for a 165pt unit vs a Wave Serpent.
I want them to be good, they are simply mediocre at what they do and I'd rather fill those points with something more effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Take a Crone instead, its cheaper, far more mobile, harder to kill, its Vector strike will have a 50% chance of an AP2 glance or pen, then its flamer can have a 50% chance of getting through (the likely) rear armor 10, and both ignore cover.
Because reliability does not equal effectiveness. A mawloc is more effective. It also needs a roll to arrive and scatters quite a lot, which makes it less reliable. See the difference? Most units in the Tyranid codex might or might not do their thing. A Lictor might do its thing or it might die from a single krak missile. A zoanthrope might do its thing and blast things with lance though it is really really situational and there are so many dice rolls involved that it is not reliable. Same goes for a lot of different things in the army. The Hive guards to not belong there. Reason is that you will always know what to expect from hive guards. This is what reliability means. I never said they are good, in fact I specifically mentioned that 2 attacks at Bs 3 is nothing to write home about. But a Hive guard IS reliable. The way a flyrant is, the way a malanthrope is and the way a Tervigon isn't. A hive guard is reliable. It's as simple as that. Can't really get it more clear.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/22 12:16:41
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2015/09/22 12:16:45
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Hive Tyrant (230pts) [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops (15pts) +
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
+ Heavy Support (140pts) +
Mawloc (140pts)
A couple of questions.
1. Why no malanthrope? Is it because FW is not allowed?
2. Why the single lictor? Is it for Linebreaker purposes? Because a single lictor by itself isn't going to do much. You might want to consider 2x1 venomthropes instead.
Forge World is not allowed. Just what's in the codex or supplements. Also the other army's are allowed only their codex as well. No allies allowed. A cad must be taken and up to 3 detachment with one having to be cad. I hope that clear. I been up way to long today.
The single lector is to play to one of the missions and also to have a Line Breaker unit that I can hide real easy. I could do rippers but they sometime scatter. Also in one of the missions you gain primary points for each FoC you kill off. I wanted to have more then just the Venomthrope in the list. The lictor allows me to force my adversary to go out of his way to kill it. Giving me control on where he goes. Kind of a board control-ish thing.
This tournament has been going on for 5 years in the local area. It unique format is that you never fight the same army twice in the tournament. Only one army for each codex. Last year was 16 armies. 16 Different races no repeats.This year they are shooting for two full 16 brackets. With next year becoming a two day event. I won last year with Tyranids trying to do a repeat this year.
If you are looking for something easy to hide that gives you line breaker, deep striking rippers might be a good option for you.
tryke wrote:
Iechine wrote: 3 Hive guard means only 3 shots hit, its just not worth it. Those points get you so much further with other options.
Which sucks, cause I think they look cool. They are great models.
Well for me that "3 hits" enough to have 2+ to glance a AV11 vehicle. If its a transport I have a good target for my hive tryants instead of using my most versatile unit for a rhino/Transpo.
Decurion is also a thing in our local community, I tried devil gaunts 100+ pts but i manage to kill 2 out of 15, and shoot my hive tyrant 250+pts to decurion warriors to fend them off from that objective but sadly i killed only 3 out of 10, my 2 HG 1 already dead 100 pts killed also 3 due to AP4 and double STR vs T value they only have 5+.
Also use hive guards from ravenwing bikers that has rerollable 2+ cover saves with FnP, so they use normal power armor 3+ with FnP.
I also instakill some JSJ crisis suits due to ignore LOS and some path finders hinding in the ruins.
Yes, they misses and it sucks like every other typical tyranid BS3 units and any other BS3 in the units the game.
I'm just stating my experience from a typical math hammer. So for me they still viable and plays a very important role in my ground force besides from may 3 flyrants and a crone.
I get your trying to make them work, and more power to you, a lictor might also give you what you are looking for, they can deep strike no scatter and do some str 6 hits against rear armor. Plus they can do lots of other cute things against all the units you just talked about.
Iechine wrote:I dont understand how you factor them as ' the unit with the highest reliability rate'.
AV12 has never been an issue, nor have skimmers, thats what electroshock grubs/devourers are for. Meanwhile, 1 Hive guard firing has only a 25% chance of glancing AV12, 3 Hive guard giving you 1.5 glances/pens. Really not impressive at all for a 165pt unit vs a Wave Serpent.
I want them to be good, they are simply mediocre at what they do and I'd rather fill those points with something more effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Take a Crone instead, its cheaper, far more mobile, harder to kill, its Vector strike will have a 50% chance of an AP2 glance or pen, then its flamer can have a 50% chance of getting through (the likely) rear armor 10, and both ignore cover.
As I said before lictors can do lots of cute things to tanks
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.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
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